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Author Topic: Preamp pairing with AKG 461's and 463's  (Read 4112 times)

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Offline Jhurlbs81

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Re: Preamp pairing with AKG 461's and 463's
« Reply #60 on: January 31, 2017, 02:33:28 PM »

Regardless if you want to do that kind of thing on a regular basis or not, if at all (I already hear the counter argument- "I don't want to have to do any of that stuff to my recordings"), that kind of knowledge provides a deeper awareness of the nuts and bolts of how sound and hearing works, what can and cannot be manipulated easily, and dispels much of the mystery surrounding the "sound of gear itself".  I may not choose to not invest the time to do that kind of stuff on a particular recording, but I have a better idea of what I can do, how much effort it takes, and can make an informed decision on what is appropriate.. and I won't hesitate to EQ it.

This is good to hear, because I have had an internal battle going on regarding EQ.  Though most show details don't include the term "EQ" in their processing comments, I always figure they do some sort of EQ before posting.  So, I wondered, do they leave out the "EQ" intentionally?  If so, is it because its not considered appropriate to mess with the captured recording by introducing your own personal tweeks to the sound.  Maybe that is a carryover from the arrogant few with higher quality (expensive) gear, allowing them to maintain their taping dominance over the recording peasants.  Just kidding, obviously no one does that...

I have spent lots of time on trial periods of various software working the EQ and other processing features.  Without any formal training or experience, I have slowely learned a few things.  The first was to NOT post my show after the initial processing attempt.  I found that I grossly overprocessed my recordings.  Returning later to revise the recordings has allowed me pull back some of the processing input.  But, as we all know, the learning curve takes a shit ton of time!  Its probably this part of the taping addition that puts more strain on our outside relationships (women, work, sleep) than the actual concerts themselves.  So, to end this I will say the I am glad to get some support in the notion of investing time and energy into the post processing.  It would be MOST EXCELLENT to see a group of you start to put together a series of short video tutorials of various processing essentials and how they affect the recordings specific to what we do.  Maybe some standards with Audacity, Audition, Izotope, etc.  Just a thougt from someone who seems to be alone on an island in this big ocean of taping.  Except for this forum of course.  LOL

My thoughts on EQ:

I typically only reduce pesky resonant frequencies of the room.  This one group I tape has a notorious boom around the 140-160hz range when they play less than ideal venues.  I start by pulling up a 30 band EQ and try to find the offensive frequency and pull it down just a touch.  Honestly, I might bring down the band(s) adjacent to the main culprit, but for most shows I EQ it is one or two bands that get brought down a few db.  My 2 cents.  I am of the less is better mindset.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Preamp pairing with AKG 461's and 463's
« Reply #61 on: January 31, 2017, 03:20:47 PM »
Less is better.. as long as it is enough.  If not a bit more is better.

Half the challenge is figuring the right amount.. the other half is of what exactly.
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Offline noahbickart

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Re: Preamp pairing with AKG 461's and 463's
« Reply #62 on: February 01, 2017, 10:19:04 AM »
I haven't been using EQ on files I post for another simple reason:  Each of my playback systems (home stereo, home headphone, office headphone, car stereo, portable earbuds) requires different processing.

I use playback software (Fidelia or Audirvana+) which allows for real time processing from AU (or VST) plugins.

In the car I can do more dynamic range compression, at home I do more EQ, and on headphones I play with M/S and HRTF....

-Noah
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v, mk4v, mk22, mk3 & mk8
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Home Playback: Mytek Stereo96> Adcom SLC 505> Marantz Ma500 (x2)> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-400
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Offline acidjack

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Re: RE: Preamp pairing with AKG 461's and 463's
« Reply #63 on: February 03, 2017, 10:36:42 AM »

Regardless if you want to do that kind of thing on a regular basis or not, if at all (I already hear the counter argument- "I don't want to have to do any of that stuff to my recordings"), that kind of knowledge provides a deeper awareness of the nuts and bolts of how sound and hearing works, what can and cannot be manipulated easily, and dispels much of the mystery surrounding the "sound of gear itself".  I may not choose to not invest the time to do that kind of stuff on a particular recording, but I have a better idea of what I can do, how much effort it takes, and can make an informed decision on what is appropriate.. and I won't hesitate to EQ it.

This is good to hear, because I have had an internal battle going on regarding EQ.  Though most show details don't include the term "EQ" in their processing comments, I always figure they do some sort of EQ before posting.  So, I wondered, do they leave out the "EQ" intentionally?  If so, is it because its not considered appropriate to mess with the captured recording by introducing your own personal tweeks to the sound.  Maybe that is a carryover from the arrogant few with higher quality (expensive) gear, allowing them to maintain their taping dominance over the recording peasants.  Just kidding, obviously no one does that...

I have spent lots of time on trial periods of various software working the EQ and other processing features.  Without any formal training or experience, I have slowely learned a few things.  The first was to NOT post my show after the initial processing attempt.  I found that I grossly overprocessed my recordings.  Returning later to revise the recordings has allowed me pull back some of the processing input.  But, as we all know, the learning curve takes a shit ton of time!  Its probably this part of the taping addition that puts more strain on our outside relationships (women, work, sleep) than the actual concerts themselves.  So, to end this I will say the I am glad to get some support in the notion of investing time and energy into the post processing.  It would be MOST EXCELLENT to see a group of you start to put together a series of short video tutorials of various processing essentials and how they affect the recordings specific to what we do.  Maybe some standards with Audacity, Audition, Izotope, etc.  Just a thougt from someone who seems to be alone on an island in this big ocean of taping.  Except for this forum of course.  LOL

Every professional recording is EQ'd, compressed, and a number of other things by a trained professional. A large part of why they sound vastly better is that. (Even using the same source material -- I've had my stuff mastered and released... there's a difference when a real mastering engineer works it over).

Recording a PA system from the audience sounds, quite frankly, awful most of the time. It sounds "good" to us because that's what we're used to, but it really isn't good. Without EQ, compression, etc it's even worse. I continue to fall solidly in the camp that the notion of the "pure sound" of a concert compressed through a PA system is a totally hilarious concept. There is no such thing, until a microphone exists that perfectly replicates the human ear and the brain's ability to emphasize, de-emphasize certain sounds. And even if there were such a microphone, I don't know why anybody would want the 'pure sound' of a PA system, particularly one used indoors. Even those who record optimal-quality sounds in a live environment (classical at Carnegie Hall, onstage jazz trio, etc.) use EQ and other tools, I am fairly certain.

That said, it is true that over-EQing stuff, particularly over-cutting bass and over-boosting treble, becomes fatiguing over time and is something you end up being sorry you did if you did it wrong. Once you've done it dozens of times, you get to know what you like and what you'll like 2-3 years from now.

The videos you seek are already out there, on YouTube. I've used several to get better at Audition and Ozone. I still know about 5% of what a trained professional knows, but that 5% has helped a lot.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun
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Offline grayp

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Re: Preamp pairing with AKG 461's and 463's
« Reply #64 on: February 11, 2017, 10:38:02 PM »
I'm a 480 guy but I agree with the all less is better talk.    I've had them since 98 and have tried a bunch of different things.   
Started with a beyer mv100 which worked but I didn't think was a great fit.   
Some of my favorite tapes were made with no preamp.   480->ps2->modsbm
Traded that for an Oade m148 which I think is wonderful for the AKG sound but these days, i typically just plug right into the 722 and use the internal pre's b/c I don't want to carry the 148 (or fix my batteries)
Akg 480/ck61/ck62/ck63 (a61 swivels if fob)->m148->722

Offline Justy Gyee

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Re: Preamp pairing with AKG 461's and 463's
« Reply #65 on: February 16, 2017, 12:43:50 PM »
i typically just plug right into the 722 and use the internal pre's b/c I don't want to carry the 148(or fix my batteries)
this is pretty much my story.
i mostly like the 480>v3 sound, but the v3 sits at home most the time due to the extra weight.

Offline CorFit Chris

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Re: Preamp pairing with AKG 461's and 463's
« Reply #66 on: February 19, 2017, 06:56:17 PM »
i typically just plug right into the 722 and use the internal pre's b/c I don't want to carry the 148(or fix my batteries)
this is pretty much my story.
i mostly like the 480>v3 sound, but the v3 sits at home most the time due to the extra weight.

All you guys talking about your sweet pre's sitting at home due to extra weight kills me!  I can't afford any new additions for the foreseeable future and your stuff is collecting dust.  Oh well.  I guess you must go to big shows and have long walks from the parking lot.  Most of the shows I go to I'm parked right across the street and can run out between songs for a quick nip if necessary.  LOL 
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Offline admkrk

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Re: Preamp pairing with AKG 461's and 463's
« Reply #67 on: February 20, 2017, 12:17:17 AM »
It is not just extra weight. These days, it really is not needed, as the old pre-amps do not add as much to the chain as they used to. That is especially true when you consider that most rigs were just pre>bitbucket before the 722 came out, unless it was a stealth rig.  Now the "bitbuckets" have good enough pre-amps built in that it is simply not practical. That does not even take into consideration recording more than just a stereo track.
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Offline Jhurlbs81

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Re: Preamp pairing with AKG 461's and 463's
« Reply #68 on: February 22, 2017, 10:18:54 AM »
i typically just plug right into the 722 and use the internal pre's b/c I don't want to carry the 148(or fix my batteries)
this is pretty much my story.
i mostly like the 480>v3 sound, but the v3 sits at home most the time due to the extra weight.

All you guys talking about your sweet pre's sitting at home due to extra weight kills me!  I can't afford any new additions for the foreseeable future and your stuff is collecting dust.  Oh well.  I guess you must go to big shows and have long walks from the parking lot.  Most of the shows I go to I'm parked right across the street and can run out between songs for a quick nip if necessary.  LOL

Where abouts do you live, Chris?

Offline Sloan Simpson

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Re: Preamp pairing with AKG 461's and 463's
« Reply #69 on: February 22, 2017, 04:16:53 PM »
I just sold my V2, running straight into the 680 now. Can't hear a difference and the lower weight means leaving my car at home more often and walking a few blocks to the venue.
Neumann KM-184> Tascam DR-680

Offline Justy Gyee

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Re: Preamp pairing with AKG 461's and 463's
« Reply #70 on: February 23, 2017, 02:25:49 PM »
i typically just plug right into the 722 and use the internal pre's b/c I don't want to carry the 148(or fix my batteries)
this is pretty much my story.
i mostly like the 480>v3 sound, but the v3 sits at home most the time due to the extra weight.

All you guys talking about your sweet pre's sitting at home due to extra weight kills me!  I can't afford any new additions for the foreseeable future and your stuff is collecting dust.  Oh well.  I guess you must go to big shows and have long walks from the parking lot.  Most of the shows I go to I'm parked right across the street and can run out between songs for a quick nip if necessary.  LOL
most of the time im taking the bus to/from shows, but often has 1-2miles of walking involved.
i have had the v3 for 10yrs, i keep holding onto it in the hopes somebody releases a relieable, tiny recorder with spif in...

Offline CorFit Chris

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Re: Preamp pairing with AKG 461's and 463's
« Reply #71 on: February 25, 2017, 11:30:39 PM »

Where abouts do you live, Chris?

Dallas, TX
LMA: https://archive.org/details/@corfit
SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/orithris
Mics: AKG 460 (ck61 & ck63) | Studio Projects C4 (cards & omni's) | CA-14 cards | SP-SPSM-9
Recorders: Tascam DR-680mkii  |  Tascam DR-60  |  Tascam DR-2D
Preamp: CA Ugly
Camera: GoPro Hero 4 Silver

 

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