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Author Topic: Does a HIGH Quality Plug and Plus Rig exist (New Taper)  (Read 2700 times)

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Offline fuzzytreebeard

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Does a HIGH Quality Plug and Plus Rig exist (New Taper)
« on: February 04, 2017, 11:22:41 PM »
Hey, my name is Corey D. I am going to be following my favorite band here pretty soon and have access to the funds to be able to buy the equipment needed to do good quality tapings. I don't have the knowledge of what is needed yet and am turning to the experienced people here on Tapersection. I am going to be Live Streaming from my phone which will be connected to a tascam. Other than that what I am looking for is a fully functional good to go Plug and Play rig that is easy to use and has auto adjust levels. Ideally something I could leave at the soundboard spot and click record and be able to go do my thing. MONEY IS NOT AN ISSUE. I am looking for the best I can get for the most part im just not sure if something like this exist. Please help!

Offline aaronji

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Re: Does a HIGH Quality Plug and Plus Rig exist (New Taper)
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2017, 06:54:30 AM »
Auto gain usually doesn't work well for music, particularly very dynamic music.

That being said, which Tascam?  What type of rooms/crowds?  Probably, you will want a good pair of cardioid small-diaphragm condenser mics; if money is truly no object, I would look at Schoeps MK4s or DPA 4011s as excellent starting points.  If your recorder can provide phantom power to the mics, you may be good to go just mics > recorder.  If not, you will need a power source for the mics (either a power only box, like a Denecke PS-2, or a small pre-amp, such as an Aerco MP-2 or Sound Devices MixPre-D).  There are a lot of options.  Plus, you will need cables, clips, a bar, a stand, etc.

I would also point out that, unless someone at the board can keep an eye on your gear or you can set-up in a protected area, you might not want to leave a (potentially) valuable recording rig to the vicissitudes of the crowd...   

Offline Jhurlbs81

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Re: Does a HIGH Quality Plug and Plus Rig exist (New Taper)
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2017, 07:41:29 AM »
Schoeps MK4 or MK4v > KCY cable > Nbox (preamp/powers mics) > recorder.

There is an Nbox in the yardsale right now too.  Super easy set up that would be hard to mess up. Good luck. Who is the band?

Jesse

Offline nolamule

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Re: Does a HIGH Quality Plug and Plus Rig exist (New Taper)
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2017, 10:10:56 AM »
There is some really great high quality gear in the Yard Sale right now. For under $3.5k you could have a killer Schoeps MK4V > KCY > nbox platinum > R-44 setup that would smoke in almost every recording situation. All you would need to do is add a stand and a nbox to R-44 rca > xlr cable. The R-44 would also give you the extra two channels you would need to record the soundboard if the oppurtunity presents itself! Happy taping and have fun!

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« Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 06:28:59 PM by nolamule »

Offline jcable77

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Re: Does a HIGH Quality Plug and Plus Rig exist (New Taper)
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2017, 12:56:43 AM »
Do you have a tascam or you are going to get one? I'm about to put up a dr-680 to yardsale but if cleantones r-44 with the mods is still there I'd def grab that. If money is no object there's sound devices multritrack recorders that are hard to beat.
Mics- AT 4041's, akg 460's ck 61's/63's/ck8's, akg active  couplings>naiant pfa's, naiant x-r's (cards,omnis). Pre- SD-302, naiant x-y amp, apogee mini-me X2, Lunatech V-3, Decks- R-44, dr-40,dr-100mkiii,  dr-03.....
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Offline jcable77

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Re: Does a HIGH Quality Plug and Plus Rig exist (New Taper)
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2017, 01:23:42 AM »
Oops. Cleantones selling a modded 680 not r-44. My bad.
Mics- AT 4041's, akg 460's ck 61's/63's/ck8's, akg active  couplings>naiant pfa's, naiant x-r's (cards,omnis). Pre- SD-302, naiant x-y amp, apogee mini-me X2, Lunatech V-3, Decks- R-44, dr-40,dr-100mkiii,  dr-03.....
ISO- pair of ADK a51 tl's

Offline Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)

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Re: Does a HIGH Quality Plug and Plus Rig exist (New Taper)
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2017, 02:12:17 AM »
Hey, my name is Corey D. I am going to be following my favorite band here pretty soon and have access to the funds to be able to buy the equipment needed to do good quality tapings. I don't have the knowledge of what is needed yet and am turning to the experienced people here on Tapersection. I am going to be Live Streaming from my phone which will be connected to a tascam. Other than that what I am looking for is a fully functional good to go Plug and Play rig that is easy to use and has auto adjust levels. Ideally something I could leave at the soundboard spot and click record and be able to go do my thing. MONEY IS NOT AN ISSUE. I am looking for the best I can get for the most part im just not sure if something like this exist. Please help!

Is your favorite band, Ween? And, if so, are you going to be in Vegas...if so, come see me. Pretty sure I saw a post like this on the W.A.S. I'm happy to show you the ropes. I'll be there as soon as doors open.

An "All in one" option really isn't what you are looking for. Can you make an "OK" recording with an all in one option, yes...can you make a great one like that...nope.

My rig is pretty minimal. Once you get the hang of it, it's pretty easy to get very close to "plug and play" ...there will be some plugging, and there will be some un-plugging...but I can put up and tear down my entire rig in less than 10 minutes (combined). More like 5, but sometimes beer gets in the way.

Since you're looking at "cost is no option" and you want "plug and play" I'd personally go with some Schoeps caps (MK4/MK41...I'm not 100% sure what would be best) > cables > Naiant IPA > Recorder (Sony M10 if you can find one..or since cost is no opeion a Sony D100 which gives you more room to upgrade). You're looking at around $2000-ish for that set up. Maybe a little less maybe a little more. Cables might add a little to that so maybe more. MK4/MK41 caps with the rest of that rig are going to make some insanely good recordings...and again if you're into Ween you don't really have to worry about crappy sound with Kirk at the wheel. I've been to some horrible sounding venues and Kirk pulls some serious shit out of his ass.

Anyways, this rig is SUPER small and very easy to set up. The caps are very small an will take less than a minute to get on your stand (trust me you NEED a stand), those will hook up to some cables between the capsules and the IPA. From there a simple 1/8" cable will take you to your recorder. When you're looking for "automatic levels" your really can get close by guessing. I have my rig dialed enough that I feel pretty comfortable setting my levels a little  low and hitting record before the show even begins and knowing I'll go home with something useful (I likely will have to increase the levels in post a little).

One thing I should mention is it sounds like you might want to set up your gear and then go party. If you REALLY want to KEEP your gear I'd refrain from a lot of partying. People (especially drunk/high ones) tend to be attracted by the "antenna's" and "pretty lights." If you really want to get into this hobby there might be some sacrifices you need to make. Doesn't mean you can enjoy a few drinks/other substances, but you might need to stay near your equipment.

Good luck. Feel free to IM me with more questions, especially if you're planning on taping Ween on a regular basis.

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Offline vanark

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Re: Does a HIGH Quality Plug and Plus Rig exist (New Taper)
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2017, 09:13:56 AM »
You guys are talking about some great rigs, but I think they are all missing a key component - auto-adjust levels. Corey wants to set up his gear, press a button and walk away for the night.

If you have a problem relating to the Live Music Archive (http://www.archive.org/details/etree) please send an e-mail to us admins at etree(AT)archive(DOT)org or post in the LMA thread here and we'll get on it.

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Offline Gordon

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Re: Does a HIGH Quality Plug and Plus Rig exist (New Taper)
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2017, 09:31:18 AM »
set up his gear, press a button and walk away for the night.

I've done that with lots of gear ;)
Neumann ak40 > Nick mod lc3 > Naiant PFA or km140 > Sound Devices MixPre-6


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Offline Jhurlbs81

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Re: Does a HIGH Quality Plug and Plus Rig exist (New Taper)
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2017, 11:08:10 AM »
You guys are talking about some great rigs, but I think they are all missing a key component - auto-adjust levels. Corey wants to set up his gear, press a button and walk away for the night.

Auto adjust levels are a terrible idea for recording live concerts.  After 2-3 shows with the Nbox, he will know a conservative setting for his recorder to be able to set levels and leave it.  I do this all the time at shows with manual level setting.  As easy as a nbox rig is to run, it still does require a touch of know how.

Offline Taper Chris

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Re: Does a HIGH Quality Plug and Plus Rig exist (New Taper)
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2017, 11:10:19 AM »
Ok, the band is Twiddle. What I notice is Sam, the sound guy, likes to keep pushing the spl's and turning it up through the night. I usually get it dialed in at the begginig of first set and I'm good, but I do have to make subtle adjustments through the evening. And that's where years of experience come in handy. I hear the levels getting hot and I adjust.
Most of the rooms on the spring tour will be 500-2000 ppl. Not sure if he should run mk4 or 41s. Im trying to help him along, but I run Ca-14's into pres into r44, so Im not familiar w the schoeps stuff. I think he has mk41's,nboxp, some kcy's and a dr-44.
Would he use phone for hot spot to run wifi on deck? I usually plug deck into a blue mikey into phone and stream that way.
And yes, make friends w Sam (he likes whiskey drinks) to get your gear in the sbd cage.
Corey, another option is to tape w a lower level setting and bring it up later in post. Tape in 48k 24b and it should still sound ok after bringing levels up in post.
"The thing about choosing the lesser of two evils is that your still choosing evil." JG

Offline nolamule

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Re: Does a HIGH Quality Plug and Plus Rig exist (New Taper)
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2017, 11:14:56 AM »
Corey, another option is to tape w a lower level setting and bring it up later in post. Tape in 48k 24b and it should still sound ok after bringing levels up in post.

Very good advice!

Would he use phone for hot spot to run wifi on deck? I usually plug deck into a blue mikey into phone and stream that way.

Yes this will work. There is a setting to connect the DR-44 to device vs through a wi-fi router.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 11:27:59 AM by nolamule »

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Does a HIGH Quality Plug and Plus Rig exist (New Taper)
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2017, 11:33:34 AM »
If you want to try and maximize levels while recording, you'll need to stick around to monitor and adjust them.

If you aren't averse to adjusting levels after the recording has been made (most typically via editing software these days), then it's pretty simple to set the recording levels so that you can walk away and not worry about watching levels while recording.

I argue that the second approach is the most appropriate in this day and age when almost all tapers are doing basic editing of the recording afterwards in software - level adjust, fades, and tracking at least, if not other adjustments.  The "run hot" with almost by not quite peaking levels methodology is somewhat of a hold-over of previous taping eras when easy editing afterwards was not as prevalent. 

The entire dynamic range of a typical live concert recording will very easily fit within the range available from the digital recorders nearly everyone is using today.  Levels can be set so that there is plenty of extra footroom at the bottom (recording sounds down to a noise floor far quieter than that of the concert venue, even without any audience present) and headroom at the top (recording sounds significantly louder than will be experienced with the band playing and audience cheering).  Once freed from having to worry about where exactly the highest levels are peaking by having sufficient headroom,  and after having done it a few times to become familiar with the rig and the general SPL levels of frequently encountered types of music and venues, most tapers can pretty much set their levels beforehand and simply confirm that everything is working and that levels are in the safe middle range at the start of the set, and can then pretty much ignore things till the end.  Except maybe for monitoring batteries or card space or just making sure everything is still working or whatever - record light on, meters still moving, time counter progressing..
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 11:35:48 AM by Gutbucket »
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Offline kingdong

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Re: Does a HIGH Quality Plug and Plus Rig exist (New Taper)
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2017, 02:17:43 PM »
You guys are talking about some great rigs, but I think they are all missing a key component - auto-adjust levels. Corey wants to set up his gear, press a button and walk away for the night.

Since no one has mentioned it yet, many of the Tascam recorders allow you to record a 'safety track' at a lower gain.  This allows you to set levels a bit less conservatively and have a second track -6 or -12 dB lower as a safety net.  I find this especially useful with some of the free/improvised music I record where levels can go from the rooms noise floor to wailing on drums levels.  It's not terribly hard to marry the two recordings if you only end up with a little bit of clipped music in the higher gain track and want to splice in the lower gain during those passages.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Does a HIGH Quality Plug and Plus Rig exist (New Taper)
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2017, 03:46:22 PM »
^
Why not simply record 6 to 12 dB lower to start with, then simply up the level of the entire file by 20dB or whatever is appropriate? 

Doing that is very unlikely to raise the level of your gear's self-noise floor over the ambient noise floor of the room (which would be the only good reason not to do it this way), and completely eliminates the need to cross-fade or cut-and-paste sections plus level match those cuts between between the safety track and the clipped file.
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Offline fuzzytreebeard

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Re: Does a HIGH Quality Plug and Plus Rig exist (New Taper)
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2017, 05:11:50 PM »
Thank you so much for all the responses. Taper Chris has been def helping me along as well as some people in this community. It has been very inviting. So far I have purchased an nBox, A Pair of Mk41, Tascam Dr-44. Working on Mounts and Kcy Cable as we speak. Currently insearch of a pair of MK4. Someone mentioned they have used the Tascam DR-44, is there a site with tutorials on how to get it working. I am about to drive over to the parents and pick up the Tascam now.

Offline kingdong

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Re: Does a HIGH Quality Plug and Plus Rig exist (New Taper)
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2017, 08:22:41 PM »
^
Why not simply record 6 to 12 dB lower to start with, then simply up the level of the entire file by 20dB or whatever is appropriate? 

Sadly, It's probably more OCD than anything else.  I rarely need to use the quieter track, but it helps me to be able to spend more enjoying the band and less time worrying about the recorder  8)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Does a HIGH Quality Plug and Plus Rig exist (New Taper)
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2017, 08:42:30 PM »
..helps me to be able to spend more enjoying the band and less time worrying about the recorder  8)

That's what counts! 

Many roads to Rome- some freeway direct, smooth and freshly paved, others scenic over bumpy cobblestones.. just avoid the rocky route jammed by train-wrecks and spunion spills.
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Re: Does a HIGH Quality Plug and Plus Rig exist (New Taper)
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2017, 10:57:34 AM »
Nice starter rig  ;D.   Once you get the hang of it you will be making some sweet recordings. 

 

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