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Author Topic: AT853 Hypercard config in auditorium setting?  (Read 871 times)

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Offline jagraham

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AT853 Hypercard config in auditorium setting?
« on: February 09, 2017, 11:29:29 PM »
Hoping for some advice on how to run my AT 853 Hypers in an open taping setting for the first time. I'll be open taping Rebirth Brass Band in an auditorium from just behind the board area and on the left side. There's a link to the seating chart below, I'm in seats Orchestra Center Row O Seats 104-105. I have a mic bar that spreads 18" and AT8538 stand adapters. Would it be appropriate to run the hypers AB spread 18" in this situation? I'll also be running a pair of Nak CM-300s, probably pointed at outside of stacks, but I'm trying to figure out the best way to run the hypers as a backup. I've heard hypers are good for stack taping, but not sure how much of the sound will be from the stack since it's a brass band.

http://lied.ku.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/LiedCenter-seat_map-web.pdf?x25733
Mics: Nak CM-300s, Nak CM-100s, CP-1s, CP-2s, AT-853s(Cards, Hypers, Omnis) CA-14s(Cards, Omnis)
Pres: CA STC-9200, CA-UBB
Recorders: Tascam DR-70D, DR-2D, Edirol R-09

ISO: 1 Teac ME-120, CP-3 Caps, AT-853 Subcard Caps

Offline admkrk

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Re: AT853 Hypercard config in auditorium setting?
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2017, 12:16:06 AM »
If your Naks have omni caps, run those AB. Hypers will give a better result with a coincident, or near coincident pattern.
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Offline down2earthlandscaper

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Re: AT853 Hypercard config in auditorium setting?
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2017, 11:14:35 PM »
Hoping for some advice on how to run my AT 853 Hypers in an open taping setting for the first time. I'll be open taping Rebirth Brass Band in an auditorium from just behind the board area and on the left side. There's a link to the seating chart below, I'm in seats Orchestra Center Row O Seats 104-105. I have a mic bar that spreads 18" and AT8538 stand adapters. Would it be appropriate to run the hypers AB spread 18" in this situation? I'll also be running a pair of Nak CM-300s, probably pointed at outside of stacks, but I'm trying to figure out the best way to run the hypers as a backup. I've heard hypers are good for stack taping, but not sure how much of the sound will be from the stack since it's a brass band.

http://lied.ku.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/LiedCenter-seat_map-web.pdf?x25733

That's interesting, I never knew that about hypers. I had always thought that the omnis were better for stack due to the "proximity effect"...
I don't know if I can offer any help on what config to run them from your seat. It seems that it's hard to go wrong with PAS, but I'm not that experienced with them. I've only run my 853 hypers once or twice as a back up but never worked with the recordings because my primary source(s) turned out well.
Mics: CA-14(cards & omnis) and CA-11(cards & omnis) ; AT853's(cards, hypers, mini shotguns); Busman BSC-1 (cards, hypers, omnis)
Nakamichi CM300's (CP-1,2,3,4) Nakamichi CM700's (cards, omnis)
Tascam PE-120's (cards, omnis) Peluso CEMC-6 (cards and subcards)
DPA 4061's DPA 4022's
Preamps: CA-9100; Naiant Tinybox (12v/48v + PIP 8V); Naiant Littlebox;
DPA MPS6030; Sound Device Mix Pre-D
Decks: Sony PCM M10; Edirol R-4; Zoom H6; Marantz PMD-661; Sound Devices 722

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: AT853 Hypercard config in auditorium setting?
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2017, 12:56:00 PM »
Any pattern can be used for stack taping.  And any pattern can be used in a spaced configuration on a stand. 

Omnis are most typically used for stack taping, and are usually best suited for doing so.  I'd not suggest using a pattern more directional than cardioid for that (but it will work).

Typically omnis are thought of as the pattern used in spaced configurations.  But that's only because in order to achieve good stereo results, they need to be spaced more than other patterns unless some sort of sound blocking baffle between them is used.   Directional pattern microphones are less commonly spaced as far apart as omnis simply because they are typically arranged with some degree of angle between the two microphones, and the angling allows for less spacing, just like a baffle between omnis.  With mics that are directional enough, even coincident arrangements with no spacing between mics works, as long as one uses a large enough angle between them (for setups such as X/Y, Mid/Side).

Or using directional mics one can use moderate amounts of angle and moderate amounts of spacing  (for typical near spaced configurations such as ORTF, DIN, NOS..).

Or using directional mics one can use no angle between microphones and about as much spacing as would be appropriate for omnis (A-B spaced setups).

All those options work.  Some are more appropriate for some situations than others.  The general rule is that less angle between directional mics requires more spacing between them.  One end of that continuum is a coincident arrangement, the opposite end is a spaced parallel arrangement.



If forced to record from really far back in a room or situation with questionable acoustics and the intent is to maximize pickup of direct sound from the PA as much as possible, a good safe bet is to use your more directional mics in a Point At Stacks configurations along with enough spacing to compensate for the minimal angle between the microphones.



!!Stereo Zoom simplified for PAS!!- http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=153112.msg1938190#msg1938190
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« Last Edit: February 27, 2017, 12:57:56 PM by Gutbucket »
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations > virtual teleportation time-machine experience

Offline jagraham

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Re: AT853 Hypercard config in auditorium setting?
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2017, 10:19:53 AM »
^ Thanks Gutbucket for the typically detailed info!

Here's my AT-853s/Hypers recording, I ended up just running them PAS.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/uhf0mun6ckf9q1u/AACggP-ynW3yz8WBXNB0MMlwa?dl=0
Mics: Nak CM-300s, Nak CM-100s, CP-1s, CP-2s, AT-853s(Cards, Hypers, Omnis) CA-14s(Cards, Omnis)
Pres: CA STC-9200, CA-UBB
Recorders: Tascam DR-70D, DR-2D, Edirol R-09

ISO: 1 Teac ME-120, CP-3 Caps, AT-853 Subcard Caps

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: AT853 Hypercard config in auditorium setting?
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2017, 10:39:20 AM »
Happy to help.

Thanks for the link, I'll try and give a listen later.  Setup as PAS, what would you guess was the actual angle and spacing you ended up with between the mics?
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations > virtual teleportation time-machine experience

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: AT853 Hypercard config in auditorium setting?
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2017, 10:45:47 AM »
..and more importantly-

Are you pleased with the recording?
If you think there is room for improvement, what would you try differently from the same position next time?
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations > virtual teleportation time-machine experience

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: AT853 Hypercard config in auditorium setting?
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2017, 11:30:56 AM »
Okay, had a few minutes free and just downloaded track 5 (the Bo Diddley tune - I'm Walkin') for a quick listen.  Playing it with VLC and listening with some moderate quality AT in-ears plugged directly into this computer, it works best for me with VLC's graphic EQ set as shown in the screen shot below.  Keep in mind that this is just a quick & dirty playback curve, likely to be overly specific to these earphones.

volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations > virtual teleportation time-machine experience

 

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