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Author Topic: Sennheiser 4 capsule ambisonics mic  (Read 1293 times)

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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Sennheiser 4 capsule ambisonics mic
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2017, 08:46:23 AM »
BADASS ;D I've obviously seen the Soundfield and Core Sound ambisonic mics before, but I'm glad to see another high end company like Sennheiser come out with one! I'd love to see Schoeps do an ambisonic mic, and I'd probably grab one and be done with it :) Cant beat unlimited configs/patterns and outputs/mixes from a single point & mic! I wouldn't have to setup 4 capsules, and could get away with just doing a couple of different mixes for each recording I would do! It could easily replace my 4 capsules!

Thanks for the link! I watched the whole video, and the mic looks really sweet taboot! Like I said, I'd love to see a Schoeps Ambisonic mic as well one of these days!
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Re: Sennheiser 4 capsule ambisonics mic
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2017, 03:37:25 AM »
Unfortunately the Sennheiser mic. uses, AFAIAA, electret capsules.

I would have loved them to do one with high-spec MKH capsules (which I suggested to them about 15 or 20 years ago).

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Re: Sennheiser 4 capsule ambisonics mic
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2017, 07:53:52 AM »
Unfortunately the Sennheiser mic. uses, AFAIAA, electret capsules.

I would have loved them to do one with high-spec MKH capsules (which I suggested to them about 15 or 20 years ago).

You would think that for an application like this they would use the best capsules they have available, but maybe they were constrained by a price point.  Around $1650 US most places, but I imagine using their RF capsules would send that considerably higher.

John - would there be any difficulty in fitting RF demodulation circuits for 4 capsules into the one body?
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Re: Sennheiser 4 capsule ambisonics mic
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2017, 09:26:47 AM »
Schoeps sells this one for $8,299.00. 4 - ccm41 microphones.



The Schoeps ambisonic ORTF-3D Outdoor Set uses 4 - ccm41 + 4 - ccm41v microphones. All of this can be yours for $18,750.

The ORTF-3D wad developed aiming at optimal imaging characteristics, similar to those of the "ORTF Stereo" and "ORTF Surround" setups. It features very good 360deg. imaging with a pleasant, natural-sounding spatial impression and a large listening area. The "ORTF-3D Outdoor Set" is a complete set including windshield with suspension and fur, 8 microphones, two multicore cables, two breakout cables; additional rain protection available as an option.



BADASS ;D I've obviously seen the Soundfield and Core Sound ambisonic mics before, but I'm glad to see another high end company like Sennheiser come out with one! I'd love to see Schoeps do an ambisonic mic, and I'd probably grab one and be done with it :) Cant beat unlimited configs/patterns and outputs/mixes from a single point & mic! I wouldn't have to setup 4 capsules, and could get away with just doing a couple of different mixes for each recording I would do! It could easily replace my 4 capsules!

Thanks for the link! I watched the whole video, and the mic looks really sweet taboot! Like I said, I'd love to see a Schoeps Ambisonic mic as well one of these days!
« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 09:39:54 AM by larrysellers »
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Re: Sennheiser 4 capsule ambisonics mic
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2017, 09:34:42 AM »
Schoeps sells this one for $8,299.00. 4 - ccm41 microphones.



The Schoeps ambisonic ORTF-3D Outdoor Set uses 4 - ccm41 + 4 - ccm41v microphones. All of this can be yours for $18,750.

The ORTF-3D wad developed aiming at optimal imaging characteristics, similar to those of the "ORTF Stereo" and "ORTF Surround" setups. It features very good 360deg. imaging with a pleasant, natural-sounding spatial impression and a large listening area. The "ORTF-3D Outdoor Set" is a complete set including windshield with suspension and fur, 8 microphones, two multicore cables, two breakout cables; additional rain protection available as an option.



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Re: Sennheiser 4 capsule ambisonics mic
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2017, 10:26:14 AM »

Pre polarized capsules isn't a complete deal breaker. There's plenty of good sounding electret capsules out there. I'm interested in this thing for sure. I've always wanted to try out an Ambisonic mic.
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Re: Sennheiser 4 capsule ambisonics mic
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2017, 01:02:53 PM »

John - would there be any difficulty in fitting RF demodulation circuits for 4 capsules into the one body?

Well - Sennheiser make the MKH 800 TWIN which has two circuits, so I don't see a problem of having four.  But it would likely be a larger body than the current mic. has.

I would expect the price to be £4-5k, though, given the price of the MKH 8000 series.

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Re: Sennheiser 4 capsule ambisonics mic
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2017, 02:27:50 PM »

John - would there be any difficulty in fitting RF demodulation circuits for 4 capsules into the one body?

Well - Sennheiser make the MKH 800 TWIN which has two circuits, so I don't see a problem of having four.  But it would likely be a larger body than the current mic. has.

I would expect the price to be £4-5k, though, given the price of the MKH 8000 series.

Thanks.
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Re: Sennheiser 4 capsule ambisonics mic
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2017, 12:01:23 AM »
The four-channel Schoeps mike shown above isn't designed (or useful) for Ambisonic recording; it's for a certain type of surround recording.

For the large majority of us who don't need or want height information in a recording, a considerable subset of Ambisonics capabilities can be achieved with three capsules instead of four, e.g. the so-called "double M/S" approach, for which Schoeps offers both hardware and software.

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Re: Sennheiser 4 capsule ambisonics mic
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2017, 09:15:28 AM »
Cant beat unlimited configs/patterns and outputs/mixes from a single point & mic! I wouldn't have to setup 4 capsules, and could get away with just doing a couple of different mixes for each recording I would do! It could easily replace my 4 capsules!

An ambisonic microphone is sort of the ultimate 2-channel stereo single point mic.  But unless you always prefer coincident microphone configurations, it's not necessarily going to be ultimate stereo recording microphone configuration for you.

For music recording, I really like what introducing some spacing between the microphones does, and that's not something I want to give up.  What I'm suggesting is that an ambisonic mic is a very flexible tool, but probably not the only one you'd want to have available in the tool box. 

To try and leverage the best of both worlds, I've thought about alternate ways to do my multi-channel spaced microphone setups which would incorporate the ambisonic mic I already own as the center microphone.  I like using a Mid/Side pair in that position, so using the ambisonic instead would be a more flexible extension of that.  If anyone here is interested in using an ambisonic mic along with additional microphones from back in the audience, I'd suggest spaced omnis (a meter or two apart) with the ambisonic in the center.  That's 3 microphone positions and 6 recorded channels.

I'm unwilling to give up 4 of the other 5 microphone positions I currently use, so to use the ambisonic mic in the center without compromising the rest of my setup, I'd need 8 recorder channels.  If I ever pick up an F8 I'll probably try that.
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Re: Sennheiser 4 capsule ambisonics mic
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2017, 04:37:26 PM »
As DSatz mentions, height information isn't the most useful aspect of ambisonic recording for most users.  From my experience using the Tetramic, I find that generally true for recordings made from relatively distant positions.  However, I've found the ability to 'tilt' the virtual microphones either up or down after the recording has been made valuable when recording from on stage, as doing so allows for a very useful way of tuning of the sound balance.  It can also be useful out in the audience and somewhat close to the stage if significant sound reaching the recording position is emanating from both the instruments and amps on stage as well as from a high flown PA.

For example, onstage with a jazz combo and the mic 4'-10' or out in front from the drum kit, one can tilt up for more cymbals and down for more kick.  One can also tune the timbre of on stage elements by pointing up or down to catch more or less of the floor reflection, and the tone and presence of guitar amps can be tweaked that way.  I've also used the vertical height tweak to help bring out on-stage instruments that have low on stage levels, one time dialing in height adjustment to point at a rather quiet muted bass-trumpet to maximize pickup of what sound I could get directly from it.  Those vertical angle tweaks can be done without changing or compromising the desired microphone angles in the horizontal plane, so stereo imaging needn't be compromised as a tradeoff.  Sometimes by dialing in by ear what sounds best, I've ended up with situations like the left virtual mic pointing down say 10 degree and the right one pointing upwards at 20 degrees or whatever, while retaining a more or less standard coincident stereo horizontal angle of 110-120 degrees between virtual supercards.  That's valuable flexibility.

Yet in the horizontal plane a Double-Mid/Side arrangement using with standard capsules is capable of achieving performance similar to a dedicated ambisonic microphone, and has the advantage that the mics can be used in other non-dedicated setups.

[edit]- And of course this kind of freedom provided by Double M/S and ambisonics comes hand in hand with the burden of having to use these tools to dial in the appropriate 2-channel stereo output.   It's fun to play around with, and the results can be great, but it can also be difficult to settle on a decision and doing this kind of post recording work is more than many tapers will care for.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 04:43:13 PM by Gutbucket »
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