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Author Topic: Blumlien More often?  (Read 1558 times)

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Offline barrettphisher

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Blumlien More often?
« on: March 17, 2017, 11:20:46 AM »
Hey,
Been listening to all the sick, sick, pulls from Clay and James using the Soundfield in Blumlien; https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?and[]=James%20Young
This has me wondering why I'm not running this config more often.  Seems like FOB is the place to run more so than anything else.  Anyone got any tips for this?
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Offline capnhook

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Re: Blumlien More often?
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2017, 12:47:09 PM »
I have a stereo mic, and I'd run blumlien more often, but it's hard to predict if the audience will be quiet enough to be able to enjoy the recording later.

Better insurance for me has been to record XY cards, and adjust it in post with MSED.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Blumlien More often?
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2017, 01:15:59 PM »
Try coincident supercard or hyper patterns, which gives you some of the Blumlien goodness combined with more of the forward sensitivity bias of coincident cardioids.   It works with a narrower angle between mics than the overly wide angle required to get a good wide stereo image using coincident cardioids and provides a touch of that sweet Blumlien back-lobe opposite polarity open ambient air quality that cardioids lack.  Try 90-110 degrees or so.

I find that's usually a more optimal "middle way" compromise than the extremes of crossed bidirectionals verses crossed cardioids.

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Blumlien More often?
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2017, 01:28:02 PM »
If you don't have a supercard or hypercard pattern on your stereo mic, you can basically do something very similar by recording Mid/Side using a cardioid Mid.  That basically decodes to virtual crossed supercards.

In any case, adjusting afterwards for best results by ear using a mid/side plugin like MSED (free) is always a good idea.
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Offline ArchivalAudio

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Re: Blumlien More often?
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2017, 01:50:10 PM »
If you are running figure 8's try the falukner array spaced 20 cm facing stage  parallel.
I've also run at a space of 30 or 36cm and it sounds really nice!
I've been really impressed with the way this sounds.
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/TonyFaulknerPhasedArray01Engl.pdf
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/TonyFaulknerPhasedArray02.pdf
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/TonyFaulknerPhasedArray03.pdf
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/TonyFaulknerPhasedArray04.pdf
 
enjoy
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Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Blumlien More often?
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2017, 02:39:29 PM »
Blumlein fan here. Used to run an AKG c422 FOB at GD shows in 1986-1987. Great sound, audience can get annoying but in the right FOB location can be phenomenal.
Since kindms has owned his AKG 414's we've run it many times, but usually only for quiet shows close to stage or loud shows in a location where we may not get too much AUD noise. Ran it at Greyfox 2015 for the first two SAT groups and from about 150 feet from stage, loud PA, really dug the sound until the monsoon came and the mics crapped out on us by getting wet.

Any group with no vocals could benefit from crossed 8's possibly mixed with a SBD or a fwd facing middle mic (supercard or hyper).
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 06:11:52 PM by rocksuitcase »
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Blumlien More often?
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2017, 03:33:43 PM »
If you are running figure 8's try the falukner array spaced 20 cm facing stage  parallel.

And they don't have to be parallel.  When interviewers have brought up that particular mic config in several interviews I've read/watched, Mr. Faulkner usually laughs it off as a specific configuration, saying that he came up with that on the spot, primarily to avoid overbearing reflections off the hard stone side-walls of a long narrow church in which he found was recording, and subsequently mentioned it somewhere as an example of not relying solely on standard mic configs.  The irony is that it subsequently had his name placed on it and people considered it a standard config of his. In reality he choose a parallel arrangement of 8's so as to have the mic nulls facing sideways to limit sensitivity to the far sides as much as possible, and the spacing he ended up with was just what happened to worked best in that particular situation.

Typical near-spaced configs with fig-8's can work nicely and are probably more appropriate most of the time.  Just use a somewhat less angle between the mics than you would for cardioids or supercards at the same mic spacing.  I made a thread here sometime last year about this once I realized that in situations where the rear-facing lobes aren't a liability, fig-8s should be rather advantageous for PAS.  That's because typical PAS setups don't usually end up with very much angle between the mics, and the tight fig-8 pattern lets those narrow angles work without requiring as much spacing between the mics as is needed with wider pickup patterns.   That could be a big advantage when limited to using a standard mic bar which isn't very wide, plus you get some of that Blumlien like sound quality goodness.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Blumlien More often?
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2017, 03:41:17 PM »
^ Found it- Don't have a wide mic bar? Give PAS with figure 8's a try outdoors
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=177050.0
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Offline ArchivalAudio

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Re: Blumlien More often?
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2017, 05:47:10 PM »
^ Found it- Don't have a wide mic bar? Give PAS with figure 8's a try outdoors
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=177050.0
Thanks.. I'll need to try angling the figure 8's too.
~ Archival Audio ~
Archiving Worthy Music
since 1986 & digitally since 1995

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Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  •  Busman BSC2 BusBox (K21-O, K41-SC, K11-C)  • Line Audio CM3's
PreAmps:  SD USB-Pre2  • Naiant LittleBox • Naiant [Milab VM44] TinyBox (no bodies) • Naiant PIPsqueak
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macMini 3Ghz i7 16GB Ram 500GB SSD • MOTU UltraLite
RODE  NT5's • Naiant MSH-2's •   TOA K1's • Beyer TG 153c's •  AT 853 (4.7kmod darktrain) • Countryman B3's (1 k mod)  + other assorted mics
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Offline noahbickart

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Re: Blumlien More often?
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2017, 11:02:16 PM »
You might also try M/S with a hyper as the M,

It's *almost* Blumlien, but the front lobes are bigger than the rear ones.
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Re: Blumlien More often?
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2017, 12:15:06 AM »
^ Found it- Don't have a wide mic bar? Give PAS with figure 8's a try outdoors
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=177050.0
Thanks.. I'll need to try angling the figure 8's too.
Thanks.. I'll need to try BUYING SOME figure 8's too.

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Offline sunshinedavedream

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Re: Blumlien More often?
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2017, 03:45:15 PM »
I once made the mistake of running my MG UMT70S mics X-Y with the Fig 8's selected instead of the cardioids....17th row at the Kohl Center...sounded awful! But in a small theatre, that same Blumlein sounded AMAZING....
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Offline Fried Chicken Boy

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Re: Blumlien More often?
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2017, 02:58:31 PM »
Under the right circumstances, it's a great configuration with awesome results.  Thanks for the reminder that I need to run it more often. 

 

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