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Author Topic: Critically Spaced Omni's  (Read 11510 times)

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Tim

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Critically Spaced Omni's
« on: June 18, 2003, 01:04:32 AM »
I ran omni's about 20" apart facing out 180* from each other tonight. The show was Bela Fleck and the Flecktones at the Denver Botanical Gardens. It's a nice little venue with a sloping hill which surrounds the stage in a rectangle. It's completely open air so I decided that tonight would be a good night to try the omni's for the first time. Wow! These are my favorite tapes that I have made with the u89s (so far). The bass is tight and punchy without being overly exagerrated like I felt it had been in the past. The sense of space is very nice. Unfortunately because of the venue setup the show was mono so there isn't a whole lot of imaging. Nonetheless I think the tape came out pretty nice!

I missed the first 7-10 minutes because it was raining but Darrin Sacks got it all, once I fill in the gap on my tape I'll spread it around if some of you would like to hear it.

Offline wbrisette

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Re:Critically Spaced Omni's
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2003, 10:26:38 AM »
I ran omni's about 20" apart facing out 180* from each other tonight.

Next time, try spreading them even further apart. 1 metre is a great place for omni's, If you go further 4 feet or more, you'll start losing some of the center image. I really enjoy spaced omni recordings. However, it really does require some attention to detail in the spacing. Since they are omni microphones, putting them 180 deg out or 110 deg out, doesn't really affect the sound that much (there are some very slight differences, but generally not enough to worry about). But the key to experiment with them and of course have fun.

Wayne
Mics: Earthworks SR-77 (MP), QTC-1 (MP)

Editing: QSC RMX2450, MOTU 2408 MK3, Earthworks Sigma 6.2

Offline Marc Nutter

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Re:Critically Spaced Omni's
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2003, 10:56:59 AM »
Hey Tim (And All),

It would really be fun if several of us started playing more with omnis.  I have tapes as far back as 1991 that we did with AKG 462's, and a few years later we started playing with Gefell m296s and B&K (yes, B&K--you know, the good old days: )) 4006's.  

While I'll have to look at how good my notes are from back then, I do remember noticing a surprising difference in sound quality when aiming them straight ahead versus "aiming" them at the P.A.  Yes, with omnis, I did find that I liked them best pointed directly at the P.A.  I apartently forgot this last week at the Mishawaka--it had been a couple years since I used them.  

I have never used this "critically spaced omnis" approach because I'm still a bit perplexed by the concept.  Omnis are only omni-directional up to about 5k.  Above that they take on a directional quality.  This would be one fun aspect to address when evaluating the best way to run omnis in our application.

Another consideration would be the spacing issue.  Wayne is right on with his point that they need to be far enough apart to have separation but close enough to maintain a center image.  Even at 4ft. apart, the recordings I made last week of Yonder Mountain String Band still suffer the "whole in the middle" (no center) syndrome.

Here's to some fun.

Happy Recording,

Marc

Offline jlykos

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Re:Critically Spaced Omni's
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2003, 12:34:40 PM »
I'll be running the 270s at GOTV in a few weeks.  I will be experimenting galore with these for spacing, height, and directionality.  Hey, that's the reason I bought omnis in the first place: I already nailed hypercardioid technique (only caps I had for a couple of years) and needed something new to work with.
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Tim

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Re:Critically Spaced Omni's
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2003, 01:26:06 PM »
I like the sound of omni's spaced 4-8 feet and I understand about omni's being directional at higher frequencies but I was trying to utilize the Healy Method...

http://oade.com/Tapers_Section/streicher-healy.html

http://www.oade.com/cgi-bin/miva?Forum/archive/viewthread.mv+thread=8145&message=8145

http://www.oade.com/cgi-bin/miva?Forum/showmsg.mv+message=8368

http://www.oade.com/cgi-bin/miva?showmsg.mv+message=2883

edit: I wanted to try it because it doesn't make any sense to me either! Marc I'll bring you a copy...
« Last Edit: June 18, 2003, 01:36:00 PM by Tim »

Tim

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Re:Critically Spaced Omni's
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2003, 01:34:34 PM »
I have done *alot* of omni recordings in lots of different configs. I have said it here before, and over at Oade.....
Omnis should be pointed towards the sound source. They are sensitive to direction, they just don't attenuate anything off axis. SO your better results will be with the caps pointed forward or slightly toed-out towards the sound source / pa.


MF

Reading back on this I come off all harsh and "know it all-esque". Sorry!
Didn't mean to sound that way.
+T'd ya for your effort Tim!!


MF

+T to you Mike... always a wealth of knowledge!

Tim

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Re:Critically Spaced Omni's
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2003, 01:46:11 PM »
oh yeah one more thing. I went with this method because the PA was mono and was eminating from a single cluster of 3 mid/hi cabs with a single 18" sub. this was directly in front of me, about 60' away. Also I was on the back of the stage so I was getting no sound from the stage amps. Because of this focus of the soundsource I thought spacing 4' or so would sound unnatural.

Offline dmonterisi

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Re:Critically Spaced Omni's
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2003, 02:02:05 PM »
one of the most interesting recordings i own is Panic 8-19-01 from Larkspur, Colorado.  482 > m248 > ad2k+.  Bill mixon taped it.  FOB, spaced the omnis about 20 feet i believe.  this is the closest to a soundboard i have ever heard for an aud tape.  you can barely hear the crowd and the soundstaging and presence is just unbelievable.  drop me a PM if anyone wants it.  it's on cd only though.

-damon

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Re:Critically Spaced Omni's
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2003, 02:50:02 PM »
I'll be running the 270s at GOTV in a few weeks.  I will be experimenting galore with these for spacing, height, and directionality.  Hey, that's the reason I bought omnis in the first place: I already nailed hypercardioid technique (only caps I had for a couple of years) and needed something new to work with.

See you in the section at the Vibes!!!!
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Offline wbrisette

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Re:Critically Spaced Omni's
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2003, 02:57:32 PM »
See you in the section at the Vibes!!!!

We all need to say hi... I'm flying in from TX for this show.

See Ya There.
Wayne
Mics: Earthworks SR-77 (MP), QTC-1 (MP)

Editing: QSC RMX2450, MOTU 2408 MK3, Earthworks Sigma 6.2

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Re:Critically Spaced Omni's
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2003, 03:02:08 PM »
See you in the section at the Vibes!!!!

We all need to say hi... I'm flying in from TX for this show.

See Ya There.
Wayne

sweet, we should all wear our t-shirts and be real dorks ;D
It is company policy never to imply ownership in the event of a dildo - We have to use the indefinite article; "A" dildo, never: "YOUR" dildo.
In Tyler we Trust

And isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, ooh ooh ooh, the sky is the limit!

My Current Rig:2004 Subaru WRX STI, Stage 3, 360hp, 380lb-ft

Offline dmonterisi

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Re:Critically Spaced Omni's
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2003, 04:12:20 PM »
one of the most interesting recordings i own is Panic 8-19-01 from Larkspur, Colorado.  482 > m248 > ad2k+.  Bill mixon taped it.  FOB, spaced the omnis about 20 feet i believe.  this is the closest to a soundboard i have ever heard for an aud tape.  you can barely hear the crowd and the soundstaging and presence is just unbelievable.  drop me a PM if anyone wants it.  it's on cd only though.

-damon

correction, this was section not FOB.

Offline Wes

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Re:Critically Spaced Omni's
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2003, 10:26:52 AM »
correction, this was section not FOB.

In my experience, i've noticed (provided a good crowd, good rig and outdoors) omnis FOB sound just like your there where omnis in the section sound more like a soundboard.  VERY general conclusion!
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Re:Critically Spaced Omni's
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2003, 11:16:28 AM »
is that on account of getting the omnis further up in the air in the section than you can FOB?

-damon

Offline Wes

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Re:Critically Spaced Omni's
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2003, 02:29:18 PM »
well i would say it has more to do with the lows degrading the more distance they have to travel.
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