Topic: need help with taping band in basement

[rabhan]

hey guys, i am going to be taping a up and coming band in their house next week. originally it was just going to be the four of them "experimenting" and going on a "journey" while they jam out for like 6-12hrs. well, they decided that they wanted me to "join" them and record the experiment. i asked them a few questions about the setup, and this is what they replied to me:

"we set up in a square with all the amps on one wall facing us.  drums in the
corner by the amps...the room is small...it's the basement...stone walls.  
it sounds pretty good though.  we will have mics but under the
influence...i'm not sure how things will be.  we'll see...it'll most likely
be instrumental...but you never know.  let us know if you need anything"


how should i set up? i was thinking that i should run either my hypers xy90 as far back as possible, but pointing towards the amps and drums. i would like to see about getting a mixing board and running the amps into it along with maybe some drum overheads or kickdrum and mixing that to my ua5 to dat or even trying to mix with my v3 also. i dont really know what to do. i will have AC power. but once it starts, i may be a little to "out there" to make adjustments. what should i do?

[Simp-Dawg]

i'd say if possible, mic everything up and run it through a board, and also run your mics...not sure about placement though.  a few questions for perspective...
1. how big is the room?
2. how many members?
3. do they have a mixing board?  (and enough mics for each amp/drum overheads/kick)

if all else fails...just set up in the back of the room, run your hypers xy, set it and forget it and enjoy the ride!

[super-phat-al]

I have done this with my band as well.  I don't know as much as most of you when it comes to this, but i have had good success when setting up in a square to run the mics in the middle of the room.  I run 90* DIN facing away from the drums.  If that makes any sense.  The drums tend to be more powerful and bassy especially if they're in the corner.

[rabhan]

4 guys, guitar, bass, keys, and drums. not sure if a board will be available. not sure if the guys even have mics for the drums.  i will check on that, from their email, it says small room, so i imagine no larger than 25x25 if that.

how will 90d 20cm (DIN) vs 90d 8cm (modified DIN) vs 90d 0cm(XY) sound in a room that small. i am tending to also believe that hypers would be better than cards in such a small room.

[Lee]

that small I'd go with XY, just so you don't get a hole in the middle (esp. w/ hypers)

[Joe w.]

id run ortf, pointed toward the amps in the middle of the room.

[Simp-Dawg]

realistically...in a small stonewalled room do you think it's gonna make much difference how the mics are placed?  

[Nick in Edinboro]

What did Bear do back in the days?  Four omni's in each corner or something like that?  Probably not good with such a small room but would be fun

[Stumptown Matt]

Yeah it seems like spaced omnis would be good if the room sounds OK.  

[Kevin]

I recorded a friends band a few times and ran XY right in front of the lead vocals and the recording smoked!!  Id suggest that if your going with mics but IMO I think that running all the instruments through a board and then use your mics for overhead druming might be the best way to go, although they might capture too much other room noise.  

[rabhan]

okay, they got a board, but no mics..... so this is what i am thinking.......

run the guitars, keys and vocals thru the board. Mix them down and feed my UA5. Then maybe take my mics and use them as room filler like taping a PA (preferably use my hypers, not cards, and run them XY90) and run them to v3>laptop. Since the room will have heavy drums and amps and the board will have nice guitars and vocals, it may interesting to mix that. I can either try to do it after the fact on my pc or I can try to matrix them with the UA5 straight to DAT or straight to laptop. i could run the ua5 matrix straight to my laptop and use the d8 outta of the v3 for just the room feed as backup.........what do yall think?

[Lee]

the matrix idea sounds good, but do the actual mixing after the fact, since it doesn't sound like you'll be in any condition to mess with levels and such while the tape is rolling.

[rabhan]

my only concern with after the fact is the time drift btwn the v3 adc and the ua5 adc......

[rabhan]

what do you think?

[Lee]

hmmm...

could you steal/borrow one of the team richmond A/D's and link up the word clocks?

[rabhan]

hrmm, well, if i had two v3s, would the clocks be identical? i only know of one other v3 in richmond..........

[Lee]

The only way to be certain is to have the V3 be the master word clock and run a line to an ad1k or other device capable of locking on to an external word clock.  

Make any sense?

[rabhan]

and guess what, i used to own an ad1k, varmit! hehe    


well, with my current toys, i think my options are either matrix on the fly with the ua5 or run the two different signals and try to mix them on the pc later.....

[Lee]

again, I'd say run two separate decks... it's much easier to screw up a matrix-on-the-fly.

at least with two separate recording chains you're (almost) guaranteed to get something

[rabhan]

ok, so run the hypers XY90 > v3 > laptop and then board(guitars, amps, vocals) > ua5 > d8 ?

[Lee]

ok, so run the hypers XY90 > v3 > laptop and then board(guitars, amps, vocals) > ua5 > d8 ?

That's what I'd do

[rabhan]

everything on AC power, YEEEHAAAAW!!!!!

[Simp-Dawg]

ok, so run the hypers XY90 > v3 > laptop and then board(guitars, amps, vocals) > ua5 > d8 ?

i think this is a grand idea...since the drums won't be in the board mix at all you may want to position your mics in the room where they can pick up the drums a bit better....another suggestion would be to find some mics to borrow and mic the drum kit and put it through the board.  maybe these guys know other people in bands that have a drum mic kit?  i know our drummer has them, but he's sort of a gear slut himself!

definitely matrix after the fact, that way you don't have to worry about any timing delay effects showing up on the master recording.

[rabhan]

they said that the drums will be in the corner by the wall where the amps will be, i just dont want the drums to be too heavy in one channel and the amps too heavy in the other, although it would be cool to listen back to it and feel like you are in that room. what about putting the keys and lead on one side and the bass on the other side of the drum kit?

[Kevin]

I know a producer in atlanta and if you send me the tapes, he said he would have them professionally mixed for me (whatever I send him, he can do HD, DAT, ADAT, CD........) let me know and ill be glad to hook it up

[rabhan]

wow, thats too cool of both of you! i will let you know if i have any problems. my main concern is just collecting the data, not mixing it later. i think the hardest part will be the recording.....

[jpschust]

jon do you have the possability of doing a multiple mic mix?

[rabhan]

well, unless i had another set of km100s or someone could let me borrow their mics/rig, hrmmm, .............paging joe w paging joe w........


150s (XY-90d0cm) > V3(24bit) > laptop  & 603s (DIN-90d20cm) > WUA5 > D8
                            analog from V3 and analog from WUA5 > SUA5 > D8

three tapes:
1.  150s (XY-90d0cm) > V3(24bit) > laptop
2.  603s (DIN-90d20cm) > Wmod UA5 > D8
3.  analog from V3 and analog from Wmod UA5 > Dmod UA5 > D8

how about that.......?

[Joe w.]

eureka!

[Lee]

That's a whole helluva lot of adaptors/cables, but it just might work!

[rabhan]

hrmm, no adapters i believe. just xlrs from v3 to ua5 and rcas from ua5 to ua5. other than that, just 2 rigs sideby side. however, 1 laptop and 2 d8s and 3 levels to watch may be tricky, even sober.

[Lee]

hmm... the XLR's from the V3>UA-5 might be tricky since you're running thru 2 pre stages

[rabhan]

if the phantom is off on the ua5, is should only go thru the adc of the ua5, no?

[Simp-Dawg]

what about the board mix?  did you throw that out the winder?

[Lee]

99% sure it still goes through the pre stage... otherwise the simple solution to the mini-me woes would be to leave the phantom off.  No dice.

[rabhan]

well, the room is real small and i think i will be too close to the sound source for it. there wont be any PAs, so i would have to do a board mix with headphones in the same room. spl will be too much to accurately mix it. and there arent any mics for vocals or instruments. i dont see how a board would be better than running multiple mics.

[sexymexi]

just do it the easy route...  listen to them, see if there are any places in the room, that sound good or like ass.. watch the corners!!  but just run your rig however. and even if you run otrf, when they take a break, switch to xy, see how it turns out.

[F.O.Bean]

hrmm, no adapters i believe. just xlrs from v3 to ua5 and rcas from ua5 to ua5. other than that, just 2 rigs sideby side. however, 1 laptop and 2 d8s and 3 levels to watch may be tricky, even sober.

knock back a few beers and one of these :smoking:and youll have no problems watching levels....but when ya bring 'this'   :spin:into the mix, things forget to get turned on.... :Pat least in my experiences....

bean

[zhianosatch]

nice description, bean!

[Simp-Dawg]

hrmm, no adapters i believe. just xlrs from v3 to ua5 and rcas from ua5 to ua5. other than that, just 2 rigs sideby side. however, 1 laptop and 2 d8s and 3 levels to watch may be tricky, even sober.

knock back a few beers and one of these :smoking:and youll have no problems watching levels....but when ya bring 'this'   :spin:into the mix, things forget to get turned on.... :Pat least in my experiences....

bean

just remember to hit record!!