Topic: Another AT853 thread

[Judderbar]

This doesn't seem to fit with any of the other AT853 threads, but as my first post, I'll grant myself the 'luxury' of a new thread...

I've been lurking around here for a little while... it's nice to read some of the stuff here although alot of it goes straight over my head 'coz I only have a nice, basic setup

Anyway, I've been having problems with my gear recently and hope that someone can give some advice...

Firstly I'm in the UK where stealth rules - bands might allow taping but practically every venue doesn't - I have yet to see a proper 'rig' at any show.  At least (for the gigs I go to anyway), we don't get subjected to searches (apart from bags) or wands, so it's not too hard to get stuff through.

Anyway, in 1999 I bought a SP AT-853/Batt box (SP-CMC-3 + SP-BPF-2) setup to go with my MD recorder, and after the Sony MS907 I'd had before that, it was a total revelation, and remained so until this year when it seems to have crapped-out completely.

I made the mistake of letting the battery die - the then current batt had been in for just over 18 months but since I'd not even done 100 hrs I thought it would be alright, but then I went to a loud concert and got a recording that was almost unlistenable because of the dirty/distorted bass.  I pretty much guessed that it might be the batt but called SP to talk to them and the first thing they said was have you replaced the batt, but also said it was highly unlikely that I'd damaged anything with my stupidity.

So I replaced the batt, and at the next gig it was LOUD again, but I still ended-up with nasty sounding bass.  Even when it wasn't so loud the bass was still iffy.  So I called SP again, thinking I must've blown the caps or something when I'd recorded with a dead batt.

To give them credit, they didn't go for the easy money and told me that the mics were more or less indestructible, and if I sent the mics/batt box back to them in the USA, they'd check everything and send it back for free if there was nothing wrong (Can't complain about that sort of service 3 1/2 years after purchase).  I didn't take them up on the offer 'coz with a few gigs coming up I wanted to try and at least get something.

The only thing I've changed in recent times is that I used to only use the roll-off on the first setting (69Hz) but had been using 107 (third step) when I was getting the problems.  So on Saturday I went back to 69Hz and it was better but still not 'perfect', and I'm thinking if I apply any bass-cut in post-processing, that the harshness/dirtyness/distortion will reappear.

So after all that (sorry) these are my questions:

Is it possible that there is something wrong with my Batt box - should I just buy a new one - it's well out of warranty, and SP have more compact versions available now anyway.  Should I just use it with no roll-off and hope for the best?

Have I damaged the caps - should I think about replacing them?

Reading about powering problems with the SP boxes (and probably applies even more here in the UK - in my experience gigs are much louder here than USA), and how much better phantom powering is, what do I have to do to modify them?  Is it just a case of buying the phantom power connectors, choppping off the old plug and wiring them in?  And exactly what other bits do I need?  I've read about the AD-20 and it looks like a good future upgrade (or even a current one), albeit not especially cheap (by the time you get one to the UK).  But would I need to put a phantom power supply thing in-between the mics and the AD-20?  I'm totally confused as to exactly what is needed, and associated costs etc.  SP said they can re-wire the mics for phantom but said it would be expensive, and shouldn't be necessary anyway - they said they've had few problems with this 'powering problem'.  Could *I* rewire the mics.  Basic soldering isn't beyond me, it's just a question of what bits I need.

Could it even be a brickwalling problem with my MD recorder?  I've not read anywhere else in these forums about probs with MD so...? It's a Sharp MD-MT888 (MT770 in USA).

I've been happy enough with the AT853s that I'd like to keep them, but I'm at a loss as to why this year their performance has gone off.  It's quite frustrating having something that used to be fine changing for no apparent reason.

Thank you  
 
 

[Sean Gallemore]

I have an MT770 and have had no problem with it.  Try setting the BB to 0 and see what happens.  It's more than likely a BB issue, maybe a bad connection somewhere.

[permanentgalaxy]

You're not alone here.  I have had the same problems that you have had in using the SP AT853 9V version when taping loud rock shows.  The SPL limit for these is 125dB.  Even though most rock shows don't get that loud, my guess is that the powerful bass and/or drums can peak at levels above that.  I've gotten distortion in the low-end many times.  The only solution I have come up with is to move away from the source.  Don't be so close to the PA.  That usually helps just enough.  One thing I haven't tried is using a *higher* bass roll-off setting.  I'm not sure if that will help prevent distortion or not.  Beyond that, the alternatives are to get the phantom-powered version or modify the SP version so they can accept phantom power.  I have no idea how to do that though.

[dklein]

Are you using line in or mic in?

[Judderbar]

Thanks for the replies.  I'm about to go away for a few days so I'll be quickish:

I use line-in, always have, as it's almost always loud concerts.  For distance from PA I usually try and get in the sweet spot about the same distance away from the stacks as they are apart which means the actual distance varies depending on the size of the room, usually about 20 - 30 feet away I suppose.  Sometimes closer if crowd noise demands it.  But in the same room last year I got a reasonable sounding recording, and this year standing in more or less the same place I've ended up with a problem.

I can't see anything I'm doing differently now to before, which is why I'm suspecting some sort of problem somewhere in the equipment.

[dklein]

Just so you know, your bass rolloff isn't likely doing anything with line in.  The rolloff depends on the impedance of the input and line in will put it so low the effect is negligible.

See this thread for more details:
http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=23;action=display;threadid=7214;start=msg83870#msg83870

You could try mic in at low gain to get the rolloff going and see if that helps your recordings.

[taperkat]

i modded my spsb-2 .. set the rolloff to 888, crossed a few wires and wallah, can set my mics INTO a speaker and never brickwall.

I use Sharp MD-MS722's and 853 omnis..

[leegeddy]

>>set the rolloff to 888, crossed a few wires and wallah, can set my mics INTO a speaker and never brickwall.

yeah, but you're rolling off at such a high freq. that you'll have to do a LOT of remastering to get the bass back in your recording.

AT853 are condencer mics and require power (whether it's 'plug-in', 'battery box' or 'phantom').

imo, you get the best results from high voltage phantom power such as 48volts.

i don't have any experience with SP models, since i run the AT853 mics > Beyer MV-100 pre/phantom.  i have never brickwalled nor had bass distortion.

most small clubs are loud, but no where near the Max SPL spec of these mics.  i would bet that it's the battery power > MD input that's causing your distortion and not the mics.

marc

[nickgregory]

this has been discussed several times...the SP 853s are wired to use a 9V power stream...anything more will likely fry them.  As a result, they can't handle the bass that the off the shelf AT853s could.  With this being said, I have a set of the SP 853s, and I have had one problem in the past year, where I was just too damn close to the bass cabinet at a RHCP show....

Just remember, you don't have to be humping the stacks to get a good tape.

[taperkat]

I hardly ever stack tape, if you want honesty. Most of the time I'm stealthing or using my backpack as my mic stand (like at the Lincoln Theatre in Raleigh, just set it up on the ledge by the soundboard and push record. Sounds great).

If you wanna hear what the mod does at a stadium type setting, the 9.24.02 Bruce KC show is mine, and that's how it handles bass. For what I use them for, the mod is great. I taped a Lucky boys Confusion show last night and it came out balanced.

The problem with the SP-BMC-1 's is exactly what nick said: they don't handle bass at ALL. By modding the box, it's not actually rolling off at 888. Before I did the mod I would pull stealths that were nothing BUT bass. Now they're nice and evenly balanced. Plus, I can stick them anywhere. I taped VH / Sister Hazel/ Vaco at Longwood College about a week ago and I put my backpack on the ground about 4' to the left of the stack by the barricade, put my mics on top of it pointing up, and rolled from there. The result? better than I thought. There are a couple songs that are almost SBD quality.

My big problem is I still can't convert anything. I've got about 100 shows I need to convert. Hopefully Santa's nice this year.

[blu666z]

Drop me a line if you need a little help converting.  I can help you out with a few.

-Kevin

[willndmb]

i had a prob once with mine
i saw litteraly 5 ft from the stack though
i set my bass roll at 96 or whatever it is
i tape DMB

at853 are bass heavy mics to begin with so thats part of the prob in my opinion

but with my MD it has a level bar on the top, just make sure that its not going to the top the the loudest parts--i try to set mine so that it will go 3/4 of the way up for average sound and loud parts will go almost all the way but not all the way

hard to explain without showing you but here is a little diagram
-        -        -
low    mid    high
------------
average sound
---------------
loud parts--1 step below the highest meter reading

[leegeddy]

at853 are bass heavy mics to begin with so thats part of the prob in my opinion

but with my MD it has a level bar on the top, just make sure that its not going to the top the the loudest parts--i try to set mine so that it will go 3/4 of the way up for average sound and loud parts will go almost all the way but not all the way

i disagree with you on the AT853 mics being 'bass heavy'.  in fact, their low Freq. response starts to slope around 60Hz.  



i have stealthed with my rig and open taped with the the same rig.  location is paramount, IMO.  these small cardioids are damn nice mics for what they cost.

i have recordings that are crisp and detailed without being 'bass heavy', just like the source sound the mics recorded.

my $.02.

marc

[Sean Gallemore]

i dunno about the 853s, but the 831s aren't bass heavy at all. I ran the 831s into a line in  on a minidisc (which hardly provides for any rolloff) with Bass roll off on the SP box at 95 htz and I got no bass at all.  

[taperkat]

location is paramount, IMO.

that one.. absolutely key. absofuckinlutely.