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Author Topic: 4 mic mixes from the AUD  (Read 17000 times)

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Offline Kindguy

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Re: 4 mic mixes from the AUD
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2007, 02:29:46 PM »
At the risk of looking stupid. Would you need a special home stereo to take full advantage of a 4 mic mix?
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Offline baustin

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Re: 4 mic mixes from the AUD
« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2007, 02:38:32 PM »
I have actually had good luck with 4 mic mixes. Here are my thoughts on the subject.

-As far as the mics used in the mixes, I'm a bit of a purest. I like to use the same brand mics throughout. My most recent endeavors have been with my Neumann u89i's and borrowed pair of Neumann km184's (fixed cardioid). Not to say I don't like other brands, I just like don't like the idea of mixing.

-I don't like to use the same pickup patterns and I configure my mics so that it is an all or nothing fashion. Basically, I don't use traditional mic placements like DIN, DINa, ORTF, etc. Actually, I never run those patterns because those techniques or theories are based on precise numbers/angles and, in our situation, we are almost never in a 'perfect equilateral triangle' with the stacks or source. That is a whole other subject in itself. Anway, I positioned the mics so that neither source would sound good on its own, but in a mix the 2 would compliment each other.

-For WSP 04-15-07, I ran the km184's XY at like 60 or 70 degrees. They were pointed well inside the stacks. I wanted a tight sound from the km184's by picking up as much of the stacks as possible with as little of the room sound as possible. As for the u89i's, I ran them about 1.5' apart, angled wide, with subcards. My intentions were to pick up as much of the room acoustics as possible and at the same time capture School's bass. As I thought, the km184 source picks up the PA system, but leans more towards a mono recording. The u89i source sounds more like an ambient room recording. I would not be happy listening to either on there own, they're both lacking. Together however, it is one of the best, if not the best AUD recording I've made. You clearly hear the attack from the PA and the decay through the room.

-I always mix the sources in post. I don't EQ, just mix.

That is all for now. I have other things to do.  ;D
 


Offline Shawn

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Re: 4 mic mixes from the AUD
« Reply #32 on: August 10, 2007, 02:38:51 PM »
not if it's mixed down to stereo, which they almost all are. I have seen some 5.1 surround mixes out there, and those require a surround system.

5.1 surround sound is something I'd like to do with some of the matrix recordings I've done. I just don't have the $$$ for the software or a suround system worth playing them on. My 2 channel system is far superior. One day if I get a nice surround system and the software hopefulyl I can go back and remix some of the old matrixes into 5.1 or 7.1 or whatever.

I can totally imagine being able to create a 7.1 surround matrix mix that would make you feel like you are in the front row....
80/20 (SBD/AUD) mix on the front two channels
60/40 (SBD/AUD) mix on the middle two channels
30/70 (SBD/AUD) on the rear two channels.
50/50 (SBD/AUD) to the sub.

Offline Stagger

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Re: 4 mic mixes from the AUD
« Reply #33 on: August 10, 2007, 04:12:23 PM »
I think Charles' reply said it all. Why would you not want more fexability in your recordings. So what if you only use one source...I would have killed for the ability to run both hypers and cards at Oak Mtn. '02 nevermind Hypers and subs or omni's (as it is I ran Cards and wound up with mud). I think the real issue here is that people mix their 4 ch recordings to suit their ears and on their systems, not your's (whoever the hypothetical "you" may be). I've run into this myself doing PP M/S. Some found my NYE discs too bright (in general I'm thinking the home theater AVR running group..nothing wrong with that of course). On my systems they sound perfect.
Hell Charles and I have been trying to work out 6ch..the more the merrier. I'd always rather have more options in the final mix than less, even if I only wind up using 2 ch. On the other hand my next goal is to make a true 5.1 recording of a show when Badger is finally ready. Not SBD and aud but 2 rear subs, 2 front hypers, a center card, and upward facing omni for the .1 I know it can be done!
Selling: SD 722
Current Setup: AKG c34 > S42 > Kimber Hero > DR-680

Nikon D7000, SB-700, Nikkor 18-200 f3.5-5.6, Nikkor 50 f1.8D, Sigma 10-20 f3.5, and way too many do-dads to list...

Playback: Denon DVD3910>Audio Experiences Symphonies Tube Pre [Electro-Harmonix/12AX7 Gold Pin ]>Rogue 88 Amplifier [Genalex Gold Lion KT88s, ultralinear]>Sonus Faber Grand Piano Home & Martin Logan Depth i - AudioQuest Jaguar and CV-8 DBS cable, Panamax M7500Pro conditioner.

Offline pilgrims622

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Re: 4 mic mixes from the AUD
« Reply #34 on: August 10, 2007, 05:29:46 PM »
why in the world do you folks use 4 mic mixes from the audience?
I see this a lot in the Panic tapers crowd.  I've listened to them.
not impressed, at all. 

Seeing as Charles and myself(I know there are a few others) are basically the only 2 consistently running 4 mic mixes for Panic then I would assume you are talking about us.  I use 4 mics from the audience because I have the ability to.  I record to 4 mono channels then make 2 different stereo recordings in post.  99% of the time m/s is one of those stereo pairs and 1% of the time it's blumline.  When listening to each source I usually feel like one of the sources is lacking compared to the other.  When I combine them then it really sounds as if the gaps get filled up.  As others have stated, the mixing is the hardest part.  I will usually drop the dB level of one source significantly and then have to adjust the milliseconds of one source so they align up as best as possible.  This usually drives me crazy as I sit around and test many different options for hours before I find something that sounds good to my ears.  When I think it sounds as good as it can then I will mix it altogether.  In the end, like Stagger said above, I really am mixing for myself.  Yes, I do share my sources on the internet for everyone to download so they can make the decision for themselves if they like it or not.  To me, I really dont care if anyone thinks the shows I mix together sound like shit.  I am happy with how they sound and in the the end that is all that really matters as I record for my ears and not 'yours'.  If you don't like 'my' source then you usually have many more to choose from in the Panic crowd.  That is the beauty of the internet and many tapers these days.  Download, listen, keep/delete and repeat!
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Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: 4 mic mixes from the AUD
« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2007, 09:01:29 PM »
nothing personal dp....
when I snagged your 7-28 copy, I was all horny for it...4 neumanns...Mmmmmm....
but on my system is was lacking...to me.  All messy sounding.  No high end, none of that splashy neumann sound that I really like.  I trust my living room system is not misleading and holds up very true to the source.

And after seeing your rig, all I can dream of is blumlein w/those mics!!!  thats got to be juicy.

I'm not doubting the fun factor of being able to run multiple rigs, but I just dont see / hear any major sonic benefits from it.  based on my own trials and errors, and the other stuff I've listened too.

as for you and Charles..., you are not the only 4 channel guys I get downloads from.  all the folks here have big hard-ons for it too.  I shared the excitement a few years back when I did it for a summer, but my own personal tastes just enjoy the accuracy of a well executed 2chan recording.

Now, as for the "special stereo for 4 channel"...that was referring to ambesonic 4 channel.  different animal. 
« Last Edit: August 10, 2007, 09:04:51 PM by Nick's Picks »

Offline wbrisette

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Re: 4 mic mixes from the AUD
« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2007, 09:24:44 PM »
I think the real issue here is that people mix their 4 ch recordings to suit their ears and on their systems, not your's (whoever the hypothetical "you" may be).

The issue is very few if any people are using decent studio monitors to mix. They use either cheap monitors or computer speakers. Neither of these provide a decent reference system to mix on. I think a lot of these mixes would benefit from a good mixing system.

Wayne
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Offline pilgrims622

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Re: 4 mic mixes from the AUD
« Reply #37 on: August 10, 2007, 09:30:14 PM »
when I snagged your 7-28 copy, I was all horny for it...4 neumanns...Mmmmmm....

If you would like each individual source(ak40(din)>744 and ak50/ak20>v3>744), then I will be happy to send those to you.  That way you can have 2 different 2 channel sweet neumann sources  >:D

And after seeing your rig, all I can dream of is blumlein w/those mics!!!  thats got to be juicy.

Blumlein sounds unreal with the ak20s giving the right circumstance.  I dont run them that much mainly because of the taping situations I deal with.   The times I have run it I have had wonderful results except 1-2 times because of talkers.
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Offline Stagger

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Re: 4 mic mixes from the AUD
« Reply #38 on: August 10, 2007, 09:33:28 PM »
I think the real issue here is that people mix their 4 ch recordings to suit their ears and on their systems, not your's (whoever the hypothetical "you" may be).

The issue is very few if any people are using decent studio monitors to mix. They use either cheap monitors or computer speakers. Neither of these provide a decent reference system to mix on. I think a lot of these mixes would benefit from a good mixing system.

Wayne

Charles' system is fine. I'm pretty sure that mine will do for my M/S mixes (see below) I think part of the problem is that many of the folks that are running these rigs have BETTER systems than 90% of the crowd (Nick and his ML Stats, which are traditionaly very rough on any live recordings, nonwithstanding).
Selling: SD 722
Current Setup: AKG c34 > S42 > Kimber Hero > DR-680

Nikon D7000, SB-700, Nikkor 18-200 f3.5-5.6, Nikkor 50 f1.8D, Sigma 10-20 f3.5, and way too many do-dads to list...

Playback: Denon DVD3910>Audio Experiences Symphonies Tube Pre [Electro-Harmonix/12AX7 Gold Pin ]>Rogue 88 Amplifier [Genalex Gold Lion KT88s, ultralinear]>Sonus Faber Grand Piano Home & Martin Logan Depth i - AudioQuest Jaguar and CV-8 DBS cable, Panamax M7500Pro conditioner.

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: 4 mic mixes from the AUD
« Reply #39 on: August 10, 2007, 09:50:52 PM »
I think Charles' reply said it all. W

what, laughing at me ?
aaahhh, thats nothing new.  I hear that all the time.
;-0

Offline stantheman1976

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Re: 4 mic mixes from the AUD
« Reply #40 on: August 10, 2007, 11:40:24 PM »
This was recorded with Studio Projects B3's (LD) & Studio Projects C4's (both were Mic's > phatcables > R4)

Here is the LD source
Here is the SD source

Here is the 4 mic mixed in post via wavelab.   

To be fair the 4 mic mix has been mastered but I think you can still get an Idea. 
This sounds like an occasion where it works well.  One source sounds more bass heavy and the other source sounds a bit more open and has more high end so they compliment each other when mixed properly.

Offline coloartist

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Re: 4 mic mixes from the AUD
« Reply #41 on: August 11, 2007, 01:13:19 AM »
 ;D
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Offline Stagger

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Re: 4 mic mixes from the AUD
« Reply #42 on: August 11, 2007, 09:24:26 AM »
Listening to Charles' 7/28/07 discs and they sound just fine to me. I basically lose the subs when I turn of the Depth but when I leave it on it just adds another bottom octave with no other perceptible change in the sound...perfectly in phase. I'm waiting on the B&K source to show up but it seems to have a seeding problem.
Selling: SD 722
Current Setup: AKG c34 > S42 > Kimber Hero > DR-680

Nikon D7000, SB-700, Nikkor 18-200 f3.5-5.6, Nikkor 50 f1.8D, Sigma 10-20 f3.5, and way too many do-dads to list...

Playback: Denon DVD3910>Audio Experiences Symphonies Tube Pre [Electro-Harmonix/12AX7 Gold Pin ]>Rogue 88 Amplifier [Genalex Gold Lion KT88s, ultralinear]>Sonus Faber Grand Piano Home & Martin Logan Depth i - AudioQuest Jaguar and CV-8 DBS cable, Panamax M7500Pro conditioner.

Offline coloartist

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Re: 4 mic mixes from the AUD
« Reply #43 on: August 11, 2007, 12:13:40 PM »
Quote
Playback: Denon DVD3910>Audio Experiences Symphonies Tube Pre>Rogue 88 [KT88s, ultralinear]>Sonus Faber Grand Piano Home & Martin Logan Depth i - AudioQuest Jaguar and CV-8 DBS cable, Panamax M7500Pro conditioner.

When are getting a playback system?  >:D
mk4>Kwon/din a/din>kc5>cmc6>kindkables XLR>788T
mk22>Kwon/NOS>kc5>cmc6>kindkablesXLR>788t                                                     
Canon XH-A1 Sony AX100                       
Samsung Backlit LED 55">Pioneer Elite SC-27>Snell Acoustics E.5  Series

Offline Stagger

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Re: 4 mic mixes from the AUD
« Reply #44 on: August 11, 2007, 12:56:40 PM »
Quote
Playback: Denon DVD3910>Audio Experiences Symphonies Tube Pre>Rogue 88 [KT88s, ultralinear]>Sonus Faber Grand Piano Home & Martin Logan Depth i - AudioQuest Jaguar and CV-8 DBS cable, Panamax M7500Pro conditioner.

When are getting a playback system?  >:D

Huh? No comprende? ???
Selling: SD 722
Current Setup: AKG c34 > S42 > Kimber Hero > DR-680

Nikon D7000, SB-700, Nikkor 18-200 f3.5-5.6, Nikkor 50 f1.8D, Sigma 10-20 f3.5, and way too many do-dads to list...

Playback: Denon DVD3910>Audio Experiences Symphonies Tube Pre [Electro-Harmonix/12AX7 Gold Pin ]>Rogue 88 Amplifier [Genalex Gold Lion KT88s, ultralinear]>Sonus Faber Grand Piano Home & Martin Logan Depth i - AudioQuest Jaguar and CV-8 DBS cable, Panamax M7500Pro conditioner.

 

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