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Author Topic: M-Audio FW 410...to mod, or not to mod  (Read 4981 times)

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Offline daverinuk

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M-Audio FW 410...to mod, or not to mod
« on: December 16, 2004, 11:22:50 PM »
Hello,
Been taping since about 97, starting with a 3 head analog deck, currently running a DAP1 with a pair of AKG 480's, and hoping to start recording onto my G4 Powerbook (1.33 Ghz, 512 MB RAM). I'm leaning heavily toward the FW 410 to use as an audio interface with the laptop. My question then is, I can grab the 410 for about $329 new...or spend an extra $150 to get the Oade mod. I know the Oade brothers, and whatever they do is amazing, just don't know how much I want to plop down right now.
Any advice from those that have just the 410 and those that have the mod? How much a difference is there? Is the 410 a good enough machine out of the box? What about trying matrix mixes, will one work better than the other?
Any help is appreciated...

David
AKG 480's ck61->Audio Magic Sceptor Cables->M-Audio FW410 (Oade Mod)->Apple Powerbook G4

"Songs remain. They last. The right song can turn an emperor into a laughing-stock, can bring down dynasties. A song can last long after the events and the people in it are dust and dreams and gone. That's the power of songs." -Neil Gaiman, "Anansi Boys"

 "The blues is the sound a baby makes when it cries for the first time, 'cause after that he knows it'll get picked up and it's all show business." - Arnie Lawrence (1938-2005)

Offline Chanher

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Re: M-Audio FW 410...to mod, or not to mod
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2004, 11:27:50 PM »
just one question: do you want to do post-matrices? (where you mix the two sources later)
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Sound Devices MP-2 / bm2p+ Edirol UA-5
Zoom F3 / F6 / Marantz Oade Warm Mod PMD661 / Tascam DR-70D

Offline daverinuk

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Re: M-Audio FW 410...to mod, or not to mod
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2004, 11:30:25 PM »
Well, I've only ever ran the Dat before, so I'm new to Matrixes period...but the idea of running two seperate channels onto the laptop and mixing later intrigued me.
Does that change things?
AKG 480's ck61->Audio Magic Sceptor Cables->M-Audio FW410 (Oade Mod)->Apple Powerbook G4

"Songs remain. They last. The right song can turn an emperor into a laughing-stock, can bring down dynasties. A song can last long after the events and the people in it are dust and dreams and gone. That's the power of songs." -Neil Gaiman, "Anansi Boys"

 "The blues is the sound a baby makes when it cries for the first time, 'cause after that he knows it'll get picked up and it's all show business." - Arnie Lawrence (1938-2005)

Offline caymanreview

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Re: M-Audio FW 410...to mod, or not to mod
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2004, 11:51:19 PM »
i am the only person on this board who has ran both the stock unit AND the wmod unit

i say go for the mod. he doesnt just mod the preamps, he mods some other stuff (like the analog outputs, to produce a bunch more juice for op-amps and stuff)

i ran the stock on with some 480s for awhile, and i didnt dislike it, and i got the w-mod sometime around the time i got my TL's. so i dont think i have any comps with the w-mod and stock with the same mics

i have some excellent (IMHO) tapes from the 2 night phish alpine run this summer i can reseed via BT or do a B&pP of for you

if you have any ?'s redarding either unit, feel free to pm me

Offline Chanher

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Re: M-Audio FW 410...to mod, or not to mod
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2004, 01:50:55 PM »
For me the question was whether or not to get a oade mod UA-5 or the 410. Here are the main points to consider:

The 410 allows you to send two SEPERATE stereo feeds to your laptop to be mixed later. VERY COOL, the sole reason I bought cayman's wmod 410 (he hooked me up! +t). If you are mixing a board feed and audience mics, you have A LOT OF POWER to create a smokin recording. You can also address those pesky delay issues like when the mics are more than 30 ft. from the stage.

The ua-5 can mix two stereo feeds on the spot; there is no ability to mix them later. I have found it difficult to try and mix through headphones; it's just too hard to get it just right when you are trying to listen through headphones at the same time the concert is going on. When mics get around 30 ft. and up from the stage then you might as well forget the matrix, the delay issues will result in unpleasant audible qualities.

There currently is no available way to mod the 410 to run without a computer; I'm sure there's a way to mod it, but nobody has surfaced with a method (including Doug).

An oade mod UA-5 can be run without the laptop; you can run it into a jb3 or dat or whatever.

I (as well as many others) have run into problems getting the 410 to interface problem-free with certain computers. It might take some trouble shooting and searching on this board to find the answers. Fortunately, many (including me) have been able to successfully correct the problems.

I have had great success getting my UA-5 to run problem-free with four different computers I have owned. With proper computer/os tweaking I have even been able to run 24/96 via usb many many times without the known dropouts/problems some people have experienced at such high resolutions.

I have no idea if Doug offers anything other than a warm mod for the 410. I'm assuming he does, but I have not seen a Tmod, Pmod, or +mod 410; only the warm mod. If someone has info please share.

Obviously Doug offers the Tmod, Pmod, Wmod, with optional +mod on the UA-5. Mucho variety.

If you have any other questions feel free to ask.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2004, 01:54:39 PM by Chanher »
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Zoom F3 / F6 / Marantz Oade Warm Mod PMD661 / Tascam DR-70D

Offline nic

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Re: M-Audio FW 410...to mod, or not to mod
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2004, 02:35:08 PM »
bear in mind with the 410, 1 of the 2 stereo inputs is digital.

if you were to run a matrix, you would need a stereo xlr/line input and a stereo digital input, not 2x stereo analog inputs


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Offline caymanreview

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Re: M-Audio FW 410...to mod, or not to mod
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2004, 02:41:48 PM »
Quote
There currently is no available way to mod the 410 to run without a computer; I'm sure there's a way to mod it, but nobody has surfaced with a method (including Doug).
doug basically told me it couldnt/wouldnt be done since you have to choose the sample rate within your computer recording software, there is no way to have the 410 choose or by locked on a certain sample rate

Offline caymanreview

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Re: M-Audio FW 410...to mod, or not to mod
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2004, 02:43:06 PM »
Quote
I (as well as many others) have run into problems getting the 410 to interface problem-free with certain computers. It might take some trouble shooting and searching on this board to find the answers. Fortunately, many (including me) have been able to successfully correct the problems.

i had instant success on an older and low powered sony vaio picturebook, no tweaks necessary, no asio drivers necessary. but when i got a new(er) laptop with alot more power i had lots of problems i never did get fixed. i got too fed up with it and sold everything

Offline Chanher

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Re: M-Audio FW 410...to mod, or not to mod
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2004, 05:31:34 PM »
bear in mind with the 410, 1 of the 2 stereo inputs is digital.

if you were to run a matrix, you would need a stereo xlr/line input and a stereo digital input, not 2x stereo analog inputs

excellent point, forgot about that

doug basically told me it couldnt/wouldnt be done since you have to choose the sample rate within your computer recording software, there is no way to have the 410 choose or by locked on a certain sample rate

ah that makes sense

+t's
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Zoom F3 / F6 / Marantz Oade Warm Mod PMD661 / Tascam DR-70D

Offline caymanreview

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Re: M-Audio FW 410...to mod, or not to mod
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2004, 05:53:23 PM »
i spoke with doug about a possible stand-alone mod similar to the ua5 before i sold you mine. i didnt want to sell it, but i couldnt stand a lappy in the section. made me too nervous

Offline Chanher

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Re: M-Audio FW 410...to mod, or not to mod
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2004, 07:06:07 PM »
I know! I don't know what to do about a laptop in the battle field, I guess just grit my teeth and take my chances...
Line Audio CM4 / AT853Rx (c,h) / Studio Projects C4 MKII (c,h,o)
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Zoom F3 / F6 / Marantz Oade Warm Mod PMD661 / Tascam DR-70D

Offline bagtagsell

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Re: M-Audio FW 410...to mod, or not to mod
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2004, 07:42:17 PM »
I am always terrified of my lappy in the section :o, one bottle of "Phatty Sammy" and there goes my laptop.  The same laptop I use at my job all the time.
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Offline daverinuk

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Re: M-Audio FW 410...to mod, or not to mod
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2004, 09:38:20 PM »
bear in mind with the 410, 1 of the 2 stereo inputs is digital.

if you were to run a matrix, you would need a stereo xlr/line input and a stereo digital input, not 2x stereo analog inputs

Ok, well is there usually a digital output on a SBD?
The matrix I was thinking of running would be for a band that is asking me to record their final two shows before quitting,
so I think I'd have pretty much whatever access I wanted. I also wanted to do the two seperate because I'd need to work a
bit at mixing it.
I suppose if nothing else I can run XLR or RCA from the board through the Tascam just for signal and run digi out of that
into the 410.

As far as stand alone mod, that doesn't really bother me. If it's a venue I don't feel ok bringing a laptop into I can always
just run my Tascam as normal, then use the S/PDIF in on the 410 to track and burn.

But is the warm mod that worth it with AKG 480's? Maybe I don't know what you mean by warm, but I've always thought
the 480's sounded pretty warm on their own.

I know with gear, it's almost always best to spend the extra money, esp when giving advice because it's not your money:)
I just wonder how much a difference the mod really makes for my setup.

Also, sounds like most of you with problems with different laptops are running PC's. Anyone try the 410 with a Mac?
Just curious...

Thanks for all the help so far...
AKG 480's ck61->Audio Magic Sceptor Cables->M-Audio FW410 (Oade Mod)->Apple Powerbook G4

"Songs remain. They last. The right song can turn an emperor into a laughing-stock, can bring down dynasties. A song can last long after the events and the people in it are dust and dreams and gone. That's the power of songs." -Neil Gaiman, "Anansi Boys"

 "The blues is the sound a baby makes when it cries for the first time, 'cause after that he knows it'll get picked up and it's all show business." - Arnie Lawrence (1938-2005)

Offline Daryan

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Re: M-Audio FW 410...to mod, or not to mod
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2004, 10:41:15 PM »
I think you will be much happier going ahead and spending the money now and not wishing you had later.  The pres in the stock unit are fine, but are they great, not hardly.  The mods step them up to about as close to a professional sound that you are going to get for 500 bucks.   Go for the mod, and be happy later.

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Offline caymanreview

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Re: M-Audio FW 410...to mod, or not to mod
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2004, 03:41:39 AM »
i say it will be WELL worth it with the 480s

if anything, buy your 410 from  Doug, so when/if you decide to mod it, you will be able too!

as far as needing an a/d for 2 shows, i would almost bet you can find someone to loan you an a/d so you can do aud and sbd

what shows, when and where?

 

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