Topic: Pre-amp with Korg MR-2 and volume

[scdegraaf]

I used to run my Edirol R-09HR with a CA9100 pre-amp (line in) because I record many acoustic shows, the singer -songwriter type of shows. The result was always good and apart from amplifying the voume the pre-amp offered me the possibility to quickly fine tune the recording level. Depending on the venue I used either the CA14's or DPA4061's as mics (I have 2 CA9100's with different connectors).

Recently I bought a Korg MR-2, using the same set-up. I noticed the output was very low (-24dB), even if I put the Korg's recording level and the pre-amp on max. Of course I can crank up the volume with software, but I don't understand why this happened. Then at home I did some tests where I left out the pre-amp and directly connected the CA14's into the Korg's mic-in (using the Korg's plug-in power) or put a battery box between the DPA4061's and the mic-in (the DPA's have special connectors that can't be inserted directly into the Korg). Now the output was way louder.  Also when the Korg was connected to the soundboard via line-in the output was way louder.
Moreover the sound was clearer without the pre-amp.

My conclusion is I shouldn't use a pre-amp with the Korg, but I'd like to understand what happened. I assume the Korg has some built-in pre-amp and using an external pre-amp causes a conflict???  On the other hand the Edirol R-09HR also has a built-in pre-amp or am I mistaken??? Or is it a setting in the Korg that I overlooked? Or is the CA9100 not suited for thw Korg at all???

Any advise/explanation would be appreciated.

Sylvia

[fmaderjr]

When I had an MR-1, it worked great with a preamp line in and, in fact, doing so was recommended by Guysonic because he said the MR-1's internal pre wasn't the best. I'm sure the MR-2 should work fine with a pre as well.

Most all the hand held recorders we use have built in pres that work on line in as well as mic in and shouldn't cause a conflict, although there can be problems if the recorder's built in pre is set to too high or too low a gain setting. If everything is  working properly, you want to find out your recorder's approximate unity gain (neither amplifying or attenuating), set the recorder's gain to that that setting and get most of your gain form the external pre.

Your problem extremely puzzling since you have 2 CA-9100's and I assume you tried both of them line in to the Korg and had the same problem. If you only had 1 CA-9100, my first guess would have been that there's something wrong with the CA-9100.

My 2nd guess would have been that there was something wrong with the Korg line in, but you stated that the line in worked fine when connected to the sound board.

My 3rd guess would have been that there is something wrong with you cable that goes from the CA-9100 output to the MR-2 line in (if you've tried only 1 such cable), but it apparently worked fine with your R-09HR.

It will take someone more knowledgeable that me to offer a solution, but can you confirm that you have the same problem with both CA-9100's and your battery box when going line in? If so, assuming that there is no problem with the connecting cable, I wonder if it's possible that there is something wrong with the MR-2's line input and that you got decent levels from the soundboard line in only because the soundboard had a very high output. I would suspect this if you had to crank up the MR-2 & CA-9100's levels  to get good levels from the board. Personally I don't know much about recording from a soundboard because I never cared for soundboard recordings, but I'm sure there are many members here who could confirm or rule this out as a possibility.

[SmokinJoe]

I predict it's something simple like a bad battery in the preamp, or a bad cable, or something like that.  I don't think it's some mysterious incompatibility.  Just my 2 cents worth.

[edtyre]

I sold mine because of this and i'm sorry i didn't post anything sooner. The line-in needs a very hot signal. With my nbox (20db) and Tinybox (32db) i was lucky to get
-24 levels and some real quiet shows way less. I never tried mic-in. My Sony works so well, i just ditched the thing. I got it used cheap and it worked well on very loud shows
but for the quiet stuff it was just not good enough for me.

I thought it was going to be the same as my beloved MR-1 except for the battery and hard drive, but it's not. Keep your MR-1 if it's working good.

[fmaderjr]

I sold mine because of this and i'm sorry i didn't post anything sooner. The line-in needs a very hot signal. With my nbox (20db) and Tinybox (32db) i was lucky to get
-24 levels and some real quiet shows way less. I never tried mic-in. My Sony works so well, i just ditched the thing. I got it used cheap and it worked well on very loud shows
but for the quiet stuff it was just not good enough for me.

I thought it was going to be the same as my beloved MR-1 except for the battery and hard drive, but it's not. Keep your MR-1 if it's working good.

Wow. It's unbelievable that Korg would screw up like this. When I had an MR-1, which I bought from Ed, it worked great line in with a preamp.

[dgale]

I pair my MR-2 with a Sound Devices MP-2 and while the levels are lower than with previous recorders I've used, at least with the MP-2 it's a simple matter of increasing the gain on the pre to get the levels on the MP-2 where I want them.  This of course is preferred over just cranking up the input on your recorder and/or boosting levels after the fact with software.  I don't know anything about the pre-amp you are using but of you can't boost the pre gain to get the levels where you want on the recorder without also having the crank the input levels then it sounds like the pre is a bad pairing with the MR-2.

In terms of your question about the MR-2's internal pre and a possible conflict with an external pre, note that the internal pre only is used when you plug into the mic input on the MR-2, so assuming you are running your external pre into the line in of the MR-2, the internal pre is a non-issue. 

[SmokinJoe]

It sounds like the MR-2 will take a lot hotter signal line-in than most small recorders.

If it were mine... I'd run the ST9100 into the mic-in.  Or at least try it.  Why bother with the preamp?  Because it will supply the mics with greater supply voltage which will prevent them from brickwalling on loud music (something like 8volts versus 3volts).  It's generally accepted that when the gain knob on an ST9100 is at about 11 o'clock it's not adding any gain. That might not work if you had something like an NBox which provides a 20db gain, that might overload the mic in before you even started, but with the ST9100 you don't have to add gain, just you can if you want to.

[jb63]

I've used the mr1, mr2 & Sony m10 extensively at this point, and yes, the mr2 can take a hot signal.
It NEEDS a hot signal for the line in setting, and it has way too many extra, unuseful sub-menu things, none of which can attenuate this.

But if you plug into mic in, make sure to set phantom power off and then you have 3 settings to choose from.

The m10 likes a hot signal, too, but not as hot as the mr2. Often, when using dpa 4061 > ca9100 > mr2 through line in, everything has to go all the way up.

I hope this helps.

[Church-Audio]

I used to run my Edirol R-09HR with a CA9100 pre-amp (line in) because I record many acoustic shows, the singer -songwriter type of shows. The result was always good and apart from amplifying the voume the pre-amp offered me the possibility to quickly fine tune the recording level. Depending on the venue I used either the CA14's or DPA4061's as mics (I have 2 CA9100's with different connectors).

Recently I bought a Korg MR-2, using the same set-up. I noticed the output was very low (-24dB), even if I put the Korg's recording level and the pre-amp on max. Of course I can crank up the volume with software, but I don't understand why this happened. Then at home I did some tests where I left out the pre-amp and directly connected the CA14's into the Korg's mic-in (using the Korg's plug-in power) or put a battery box between the DPA4061's and the mic-in (the DPA's have special connectors that can't be inserted directly into the Korg). Now the output was way louder.  Also when the Korg was connected to the soundboard via line-in the output was way louder.
Moreover the sound was clearer without the pre-amp.

My conclusion is I shouldn't use a pre-amp with the Korg, but I'd like to understand what happened. I assume the Korg has some built-in pre-amp and using an external pre-amp causes a conflict???  On the other hand the Edirol R-09HR also has a built-in pre-amp or am I mistaken??? Or is it a setting in the Korg that I overlooked? Or is the CA9100 not suited for thw Korg at all???

Any advise/explanation would be appreciated.

Sylvia

With the MR1 You need more gain the 9100 is good for situations where you only need 20 db if you need more the 9200 at 40 db will be more then enough for most situations. I doubt it is a preamp issue. When I had an MR1 I found it needed gain big time, like the tascam recorders.