Topic: whats better than a pcm-d50 for a dpa 4060 + mma6000

[audiothings]

i am looking for a small recorder to record from dpa 4060s through an mma6000. I notice that the sony has the best s/n figure (93 dB), among the machines i've seen. i intend to carry the recorder at all times to procure "found sounds", therefore it should have half decent internal mics. I will carry the dpa mics and pre when i'm recording music (which will usually be acoustic, unamplified private performances).

is there a better option out there?

thanks,

[Dede2002]

i am looking for a small recorder to record from dpa 4060s through an mma6000. I notice that the sony has the best s/n figure (93 dB), among the machines i've seen. i intend to carry the recorder at all times to procure "found sounds", therefore it should have half decent internal mics. I will carry the dpa mics and pre when i'm recording music (which will usually be acoustic, unamplified private performances).

is there a better option out there?

thanks,

Better? Hard to say. I'm very happy whit my new Marantz 620.

[flintstone]

To my ear, the PCM-D50's built-in mics have a "bright" sound (high frequencies emphasized) at stock settings.  In addition, the mics pick up handling noise more easily than other small hand-held recorders I've used.  You should try out the recorder to see if you will be happy with the results of your "found sounds" recordings.  (Good advice regardless of the recorder you're considering.)

The D50 is a small recorder, but not really pocket-size.  In volume and weight, the D50 is more than twice as large as recorders like the Marantz PMD620, M-Audio Microtrack II, and Edirol R-09.  The extra weight is due to the D50's metal frame, larger LCD screen, and longer-lasting battery, so it's not all bad.

Another demerit to the D50 for using Sony's Memory Stick Pro Duo (High Speed) flash memory card.  These are easily twice as expensive as Compactflash or SDHC of the same capacity, and they rarely go on sale.  Fortunately, the D50 has 4GB of flash memory built in, so you don't need to purchase a Pro Duo card right away to make the recorder work.

Flintstone 

[GDfan]

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,97572.0.html

this thread has a comparison of smaller hand held recorders.

[Gutbucket]

Mostly depends on what your priorities are and which trade-offs you are willing to live with.

I mostly run 4060>MMA6000>short right angle terminated 1/8" stereo patch cable>R-09(24/48)

What I like the R-09-
~Small easily pocketable size
~2x AA power
~SD memory card (currently using 8GB)

The small size of the R-09 is nice (smaller than the MMA6000) & I'm very happy with the results for everything from quiet ambience type recordings of birds, frogs, creeks, acoustic performances and way too loud rock shows and highly dynamic classical.  The whole rig fits in a very small shaving kit or fanny pack.  The quality of sound is so much better than the internal mics that I never use them. I do have a couple other pairs of plug-in powered omnis and cardioids that are better than the internals which I figured I'd use straight into the recorder for a super small package, but the DPA rig is small enough that I never do.  I keep all it wired up and ready to go in the shaving kit and with the recorder in a cell phone case it's pretty rugged.  If I don't want the bag I put the preamp in one jacket or pant pocket and the recorder in the other.  Works for me.

flintsone makes some good points on size and seeing if you are happy with the internal mics on any recorder. 

[amfortas2006]

Sonosax minir82 maybe.

But very expencive...

I would go for a cheaper one if I was u, not so sure if it pays off, youre going external preamp anyway...

[audiothings]

To my ear, the PCM-D50's built-in mics have a "bright" sound (high frequencies emphasized) at stock settings.

thank you flintstone.

that is definitely not desirable. in my mind, bright mics and bright speakers exemplify all the bad things about digital. (is there any known way to change the stock settings?) in your experience, which recorder has more realistic sounding built in mics?

You should try out the recorder to see if you will be happy with the results of your "found sounds" recordings.

i am here in south india... such opportunities don't exist. i pick a piece of gear unseen, unheard, then wait for one of my frends or relatives to come here from the USA, and i have them bring it over. the local price is usually 2x the price out there, and i cannot afford it.

as gutbucket said, you make very good points about size and portability of the sony unit.

I mostly run 4060>MMA6000>short right angle terminated 1/8" stereo patch cable>R-09(24/48)

thank you gutbucket.

i am a little disgruntled with the fact that neither m-audio nor edirol have published the s/n figures of the units in question. (at least, i have been unable of spot them on respective sites). do you have the figures? FWIW, the pmd 620 is at 80 dB and the mr-1 is at 90 dB. as i plan to record quiet, unamplified music from a reasonable distance this, this is rather crucial for me...

i have not bought the mics or the pre, its just that i have a good feeling about DPA as a company (having used their 4006s in the studio), and considering that this will be a one time investment (i usually hang on to gear for a long time), i think i won't mind paying a small premium. so i have some clarity on the mic and pre choices, but other ideas/options are most welcome. 

thanks again.

(i will now learn how to issue 'tickets'... these are my first posts here, tho' i've lurked a fair bit.)




 

[Gutbucket]

Guysonic (member here) does some bench testing of various recorders and posts noise specs and graphs on his SonicStudios site. Look under reviews for the various recorder.  It's an great resource.  Some of his reviews can be a bit tough to decipher and I dislike the fact that he graphs the noise specs in the 'worst case scenarios' with the recorder's gain set at maximum, but does not include specs for more conservative 'as used' gain settings.  Regardless it's a good starting point and you may find the info you're looking for.

Chris Church (member here) now offers a new mod that replaces the R-09's internal mics with his own cardioid or omni capsules and reinforces the line and mic input jacks at the same time (the only real weak point of the recorder IMO).  If the R-09 fit's your requirements except for the quality of the built-in mics, that could be an option.

Don't worry about the ticket thing.  I think you need 50 posts before they become operational.

[Gutbucket]

...i am here in south india...

Really wish I had a recording setup for my previous trips to the subcontinent.  You've got some great sound resources there!

[Brian Brock]

Hi. I'm also new here, looking at the d50 to replace my old minidisc (which replaced an awesome cassette box which I would still use if it worked!).  To my ears and listening to the wingfield clips on headphones into a laptop, the pcm-d50's ext mic in sounds very close to the pcmd1, basically identical.  I think the low noise floor and superior sound make it a contender, if not the winner by tko.  The Internal mics are awful.  The r09's mics are much more natural, but keep in mind that they are omnidirectional, as you can hear in the clips.   Its ext mic in seems much noisier. Do these impressions match those of people who use or own them?

[illconditioned]

i am looking for a small recorder to record from dpa 4060s through an mma6000. I notice that the sony has the best s/n figure (93 dB), among the machines i've seen. i intend to carry the recorder at all times to procure "found sounds", therefore it should have half decent internal mics. I will carry the dpa mics and pre when i'm recording music (which will usually be acoustic, unamplified private performances).

is there a better option out there?

thanks,

Is the MMA6000 a battery box or a preamp?

I've run DPA4060 > self-made batt-box > R09 mic in.  It sounds great.  And the DPA4060 are very "hot" mics, so you don't get any noticeable preamp noise.  Great portable combination.

By the way, I talked to the folks at DPA and apparantly the DPA4060 and 4061 use the same mic element.  The only difference is the sensitivity (of the preamp part).  So, I would go for the 4060 which has higher output and also has a slightly lower noise floor.

That said, for music I much prefer the sound of another Lav mic, the Nevaton MKE400  .  But those need phantom power, so I'm running into a (modded) FR-2LE.

  Richard

[amfortas2006]

That said, for music I much prefer the sound of another Lav mic, the Nevaton MKE400  .  But those need phantom power, so I'm running into a (modded) FR-2LE.

Richard

Interesting, could you send a sample of a recording made with this microphone (Nevaton MKE400). Music, if possible... Always interested in (to me) unknown equipment! 

[illconditioned]

That said, for music I much prefer the sound of another Lav mic, the Nevaton MKE400  .  But those need phantom power, so I'm running into a (modded) FR-2LE.

Richard

Interesting, could you send a sample of a recording made with this microphone (Nevaton MKE400). Music, if possible... Always interested in (to me) unknown equipment! 

Yeah sure, go to Soundmann.com.

Quiet clip: Kat Burns.  Loud clip: Matt Schofield.

  Richard

[amfortas2006]

Thanks!

[audiothings]

thanks again gutbucket. with the church audio upgrade this looks like a workable option...



am i reading this wrong or does th r-09 have a s/n ratio of over 100 dB? (which would make it even better than the mr-1000 in this regard).

[Nick's Picks]

of the handhelds iv'e used (r1, r9, MT)..., I really prefer the Korg MR1.