Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: neumann 184 set up  (Read 7194 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 6498
  • large Marge sent me
Re:neumann 184 set up
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2004, 01:49:09 PM »
... it's always been my understanding that the bigger area of the room you pick up, the more bass you will have, due to the fact that bass is omnidirectional.  So I think what you might want to try Pat, is picking up less room by pointing the mics more at the stacks.


I wasn't recommending pointing the mics super wide.  I got my best results with the 184s from the back of the house when I set them up XY with an angle that put the line of sight outside the V along the mic body aligned with the outside of the stack cabinet.  Wider gave a huge image with alot of room sound.  Tighter (as in right at the stacks) yielded a very compressed image that was not always a cleaner tape.  The further back you go the tighter the angle you have to use and the more compressed image you'll get if you point right at the stacks.  

Pat, I ran 184s for about 4 1/2 years using an MV100 and then V2 ahead of the SBM1.  All my masters are documented.  If you want I can run a sample CD with various venues and mic configurations.  That would give you an idea of the difference the pre-amp makes and also the results that you can expect for each situation.  I think that when you get comfortable with the 184s, you'll keep them a long time.  They were a good investment.

BTW, bass is only omni-directional up close, like in a home theater setting where you are sitting within a wave length.  When you get 30-40ft away or more, it is very easy to determine the point source of bass frequencies.  If you can, you should walk around and listen to the room during the opening act to find the best/most balanced sound.  Bass frequencies can be noticably attenuated or boosted depending on how the reflections sum, regardless of room size.  
« Last Edit: January 07, 2004, 02:17:59 PM by mcmiller »
The first rule of amateur neurosurgery club is .... I forget.

Offline thoman8r

  • Proud member of the reality-based community
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 5137
  • Gender: Male
  • Let's go Pens!
Re:neumann 184 set up
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2004, 02:27:20 PM »
I wasn't recommending pointing the mics super wide.  

Just so there's no misunderstanding, I didn't intend for my post to be a direct response to your suggestions.  Obviously you know a lot more about the 184's than I do, I was just trying to impart on Pat some of the things others have told me about mic configuration *in general*.

- Dave
"No. Don't call me a hero. Do you know who the real heroes are? The guys who wake up every morning and go in their normal jobs and get a distress call from the commissioner and take off their glasses and change into capes and fly around fighting crime. Those are the real heroes."
- Dwight Schrute

Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 6498
  • large Marge sent me
Re:neumann 184 set up
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2004, 04:14:02 PM »
I didn't take offense if it seemed that way.   I saw your comment about recording the room and thought that I had been ambigous when I wrote "wide of the stacks".  

And I fucked up.  Actually, the HF rolloff is greater off axis than the bass rolloff.  What I meant to say was that he could run off axis a little to affect the balance of the sound.  

I really shouldn't post before coffee.
The first rule of amateur neurosurgery club is .... I forget.

Offline Sloan Simpson

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4013
  • Gender: Male
    • Southern Shelter
Re:neumann 184 set up
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2004, 05:00:19 PM »
Having had my 184's right about a year now, just wanted to say that I too had to play around with configurations a lot before I got happy.  But when I got happy, I got -really- happy  ;D Don't know how it'd apply to UA5 (or anything else), but I found with my V2 that running the pre at a lower gain, and making up the difference by running the SBM hotter, made me much happier with the bass.  Seemed to 'clog' everything up when the pre was run hot.  Don't be afraid to play around w/ bass rolloffs either. . .

Sloan

Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 6498
  • large Marge sent me
Re:neumann 184 set up
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2004, 05:17:02 PM »
I'm curious.  Where do you run your V2 and SBM levels?
The first rule of amateur neurosurgery club is .... I forget.

Offline Sloan Simpson

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4013
  • Gender: Male
    • Southern Shelter
Re:neumann 184 set up
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2004, 07:35:44 PM »
I'm usually in a small club, taping a LOUD rock band, and lately I've been setting the V2 at +10, leaving the trims all the way up, and not messing with the V2 at all after that.  I start with the SBM somewhere in the 5-7 range and only adjust it.  For acoustic stuff (generally in the same clubs) I turn the V2 up one notch, to +15.  I was having a problem with the bass being kinda bloated, clogging up the upper end of the bass (sorry, bad with audio descriptor words). I found that lowering the pre level cleaned that up, plus kept me from having to turn the SBM down below what is supposed to be its optimal range (not below 4 I've heard?).

Does this sound crazy to anybody, or is it in line with what y'all have found?

Sloan


Offline Sloan Simpson

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4013
  • Gender: Male
    • Southern Shelter
Re:neumann 184 set up
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2004, 08:06:23 PM »
I'll do that too if the low end is really kickin'.  But for less-bassy PA's, lowering the gain cleaned it up, without having to worry about whether I shouldn't have used the HPF.  But if I can feel a real good thump in my chest, I'll use the filter. . .

Sloan


Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 6498
  • large Marge sent me
Re:neumann 184 set up
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2004, 12:00:19 AM »
Does this sound crazy to anybody, or is it in line with what y'all have found?

Sloan

I ran the V2 5db higher than you and the SBM backed off to about 4 on the dail.  I don't recall bloated bass with the 184s into the V2.  I'm going through some of those tapes this week.  I guess I'll have to listen more closely.

I always heard that I should open up the SBM gain, but when I did I couldn't keep the -14db lights illuminated on the V2 without pegging the SBM.  Are your -14db lights on when you run like this?  Somebody told me it mattered, but I never called Grace to confirm that so I just tried to balance the two.  

The first rule of amateur neurosurgery club is .... I forget.

Offline dklein

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1184
  • Gender: Male
Re:neumann 184 set up
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2004, 09:51:08 AM »
I'm usually in a small club, taping a LOUD rock band,

Sloan is the master Drive-By-Truckers / Patterson Hood taper.  It was listening to some of your shows that got me into my 184s.  Welcome!  
KM 184 > V2 > R4
older recording gear: UA-5  / emagic A62 / laptop / JB3 / CSB / AD20 / Sharp MT-90 / Sony MDS-JE510
Playback: Pioneer DV-578 > Lucid DA 9624 >many funny little british boxes > Linn Isobarik PMS

Offline thoman8r

  • Proud member of the reality-based community
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 5137
  • Gender: Male
  • Let's go Pens!
Re:neumann 184 set up
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2004, 09:59:29 AM »
I always heard that I should open up the SBM gain

THE SBM-1 doesn't provide any gain (if you go line-in).  It's actually the opposite.  At 10, you are running wide open.  As you lower the recording level, the gain from the input source is attenuated.  This is why people always suggest running the SBM-1 as high as possible if you are using an outboard pre.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2004, 10:00:17 AM by thoman8r »
"No. Don't call me a hero. Do you know who the real heroes are? The guys who wake up every morning and go in their normal jobs and get a distress call from the commissioner and take off their glasses and change into capes and fly around fighting crime. Those are the real heroes."
- Dwight Schrute

Offline Sloan Simpson

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4013
  • Gender: Male
    • Southern Shelter
Re:neumann 184 set up
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2004, 10:04:56 AM »
dklein: Thanks for the props, yer makin' me blush ;D

mcmiller: The red lights never flash the way I'm running it now.  Let me back up and say that I was running V2>ADC-20, and with the ADC calibrated in the manner described on Sonic Sense pages somewhere, that put me up in the +30 area.  So when I switched over to the SBM, that's where I was (I also was unhappy with the bass when running V2>ADC-20).  Once I found the correlation in turning down the gain, I kept going down with it, and ended up with the +10.  Also, figured that was most similar to the amount of gain you'd get by running a 148 with the -10 pad on (which a friend was doing at a lot of the same shows with good results . . .

Sloan

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.189 seconds with 39 queries.
© 2002-2024 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF