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Author Topic: H6 froze at rd last night  (Read 7773 times)

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Offline vegeta_ban

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H6 froze at rd last night
« on: February 16, 2014, 01:42:20 PM »
I was running with the extra two inputs, 5 channels total. Upon startup with a 32 gb card it would not load until i removed the card and started the device. It worked the night before when i was running 48/24 but when i was running 192/24 it froze.
Mics: Telefunken ELA M 260 Field Kit; Nakamichi cm 100/CP4 shotgun (CP 1&2); Nakamichi Cm 300 (CP 1, 2, & 3) x3  JB phantom power mod; Nakamichi Cm 1000s; Superlux CMH8K
Recorders: Sound Devices 722; Zoom F8; Edirol R44 Oade Concert Mod; Digimod UA5>Nomad Jukebox 3 (or Archos 605 wifi); Zoom H2; Zoom H6
Camcorder: Panasonic PV-GS300
Camera: Fujifilm X-E1 & various lenses; Fujifilm s100fs; Fujifilm S7000
Misc: Beachtek SVU-2

Offline hi and lo

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Re: H6 froze at rd last night
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2014, 02:07:36 PM »
My recommendation would be to stop recording at 192 kHz. It's a waste of space and will provide no tangible improvement in sound quality. There is a prevalent theory that most ADC chips actually sound worse at 192 kHz vs. 96 kHz or lower, but it's really not worth debating here. There's no beneficial reason to record this high, period.

You have some very nice recorders in your signature. Why use a Zoom?  :'(

Offline vegeta_ban

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Re: H6 froze at rd last night
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2014, 02:14:41 PM »
its a backup, i will only record on it at 24/48 now. My main gear is telefunkend ela m 260 field kit>Sd722.
Mics: Telefunken ELA M 260 Field Kit; Nakamichi cm 100/CP4 shotgun (CP 1&2); Nakamichi Cm 300 (CP 1, 2, & 3) x3  JB phantom power mod; Nakamichi Cm 1000s; Superlux CMH8K
Recorders: Sound Devices 722; Zoom F8; Edirol R44 Oade Concert Mod; Digimod UA5>Nomad Jukebox 3 (or Archos 605 wifi); Zoom H2; Zoom H6
Camcorder: Panasonic PV-GS300
Camera: Fujifilm X-E1 & various lenses; Fujifilm s100fs; Fujifilm S7000
Misc: Beachtek SVU-2

Offline vegeta_ban

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Re: H6 froze at rd last night
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2014, 02:15:59 PM »
Ran a total of 7 mics last night, i like the backup to be small since i stream and would die trying to carry bigger stuff  :P
Mics: Telefunken ELA M 260 Field Kit; Nakamichi cm 100/CP4 shotgun (CP 1&2); Nakamichi Cm 300 (CP 1, 2, & 3) x3  JB phantom power mod; Nakamichi Cm 1000s; Superlux CMH8K
Recorders: Sound Devices 722; Zoom F8; Edirol R44 Oade Concert Mod; Digimod UA5>Nomad Jukebox 3 (or Archos 605 wifi); Zoom H2; Zoom H6
Camcorder: Panasonic PV-GS300
Camera: Fujifilm X-E1 & various lenses; Fujifilm s100fs; Fujifilm S7000
Misc: Beachtek SVU-2

Offline hi and lo

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Re: H6 froze at rd last night
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2014, 02:22:48 PM »
ok, ok ok... I'll give you the +t for running 7 mics. That's impressive!  ;D

Any sample rate from 44 - 96 is fine. I personally stick to 48, but if you want to do 96 or 88.2 that's ok too. Just test to make sure you aren't locking up at those higher sample rates as well.

Offline vegeta_ban

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Re: H6 froze at rd last night
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2014, 02:23:38 PM »
cool, i will start just doing the 96/24 lol
Mics: Telefunken ELA M 260 Field Kit; Nakamichi cm 100/CP4 shotgun (CP 1&2); Nakamichi Cm 300 (CP 1, 2, & 3) x3  JB phantom power mod; Nakamichi Cm 1000s; Superlux CMH8K
Recorders: Sound Devices 722; Zoom F8; Edirol R44 Oade Concert Mod; Digimod UA5>Nomad Jukebox 3 (or Archos 605 wifi); Zoom H2; Zoom H6
Camcorder: Panasonic PV-GS300
Camera: Fujifilm X-E1 & various lenses; Fujifilm s100fs; Fujifilm S7000
Misc: Beachtek SVU-2

Offline vegeta_ban

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Re: H6 froze at rd last night
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2014, 02:27:24 PM »
Also got room for one more lol
Mics: Telefunken ELA M 260 Field Kit; Nakamichi cm 100/CP4 shotgun (CP 1&2); Nakamichi Cm 300 (CP 1, 2, & 3) x3  JB phantom power mod; Nakamichi Cm 1000s; Superlux CMH8K
Recorders: Sound Devices 722; Zoom F8; Edirol R44 Oade Concert Mod; Digimod UA5>Nomad Jukebox 3 (or Archos 605 wifi); Zoom H2; Zoom H6
Camcorder: Panasonic PV-GS300
Camera: Fujifilm X-E1 & various lenses; Fujifilm s100fs; Fujifilm S7000
Misc: Beachtek SVU-2

Offline yates7592

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Re: H6 froze at rd last night
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2014, 05:23:16 AM »
Actually, I would say always use the highest available sampling rate, providing your ADC is capable and your recorder and memory card can cope with the data onslaught (which yours seemingly can't). The benefit of a higher sampling rate is primarily enhanced detail, particularly stereo width and more obviously, depth. Hijack over.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2014, 05:26:00 AM by yates7592 »

Offline hi and lo

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Re: H6 froze at rd last night
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2014, 10:23:41 AM »
Actually, I would say always use the highest available sampling rate, providing your ADC is capable and your recorder and memory card can cope with the data onslaught (which yours seemingly can't). The benefit of a higher sampling rate is primarily enhanced detail, particularly stereo width and more obviously, depth. Hijack over.

"Stereo width and depth?" I'm don't buy that use of jargon, at all. Please help me understand how stereo width and depth, which is a function of mcirophone angle and spacing in a mutli-channel recording setup, can be improved by sampling rate, which is a function of bandwidth and frequency spectrum. If I record a mono channel in 192, does it magically become stereo?

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Re: H6 froze at rd last night
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2014, 10:34:37 AM »
Actually, I would say always use the highest available sampling rate, providing your ADC is capable and your recorder and memory card can cope with the data onslaught (which yours seemingly can't). The benefit of a higher sampling rate is primarily enhanced detail, particularly stereo width and more obviously, depth. Hijack over.

"Stereo width and depth?" I don't buy that use of jargon, at all. Please help me understand how stereo width and depth, which is a function of mcirophone angle and spacing in a mutli-channel recording setup, can be improved by sampling rate, which is a function of bandwidth and frequency spectrum. If I record a mono channel in 192, does it magically become stereo?

Nyquist would have something to say about that... As long as you're not doing recordings for bats or dogs, and you're recording in PCM, then there isn't a reason to recorder higher than a 48khz sampling rate.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

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Online aaronji

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Re: H6 froze at rd last night
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2014, 10:46:56 AM »
Nyquist would have something to say about the "enhanced detail" too (assuming the bandwidth is limited)...

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Re: H6 froze at rd last night
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2014, 12:30:58 PM »
Nyquist would have something to say about the "enhanced detail" too (assuming the bandwidth is limited)...

Yeah, especially.

That's not to say there aren't reasons for having higher sample rates, but recording for human audiences isn't one of them. Sound effects generation (where you slow down things like bat squeaks) is one such, and plugin/digital processing where you are trying to spread out the aliasing effect of processing over a much larger area is another.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

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Re: H6 froze at rd last night
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2014, 09:09:12 AM »
That's not to say there aren't reasons for having higher sample rates, but recording for human audiences isn't one of them. Sound effects generation (where you slow down things like bat squeaks) is one such, and plugin/digital processing where you are trying to spread out the aliasing effect of processing over a much larger area is another.

I seem to recall that the esteemed Mr. Stoppable, in one of the earlier sampling rate discussions, mentioned that up-sampling/processing/down-sampling would also accomplish this.

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Re: H6 froze at rd last night
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2014, 09:59:46 AM »
That's not to say there aren't reasons for having higher sample rates, but recording for human audiences isn't one of them. Sound effects generation (where you slow down things like bat squeaks) is one such, and plugin/digital processing where you are trying to spread out the aliasing effect of processing over a much larger area is another.

I seem to recall that the esteemed Mr. Stoppable, in one of the earlier sampling rate discussions, mentioned that up-sampling/processing/down-sampling would also accomplish this.

It does (thats what I do actually as I record at 44.1). Note, I said "having higher sample rates" not "recording at higher sample rates."  ;D

"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

Offline yates7592

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Re: H6 froze at rd last night
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2014, 10:51:10 AM »
Actually, I would say always use the highest available sampling rate, providing your ADC is capable and your recorder and memory card can cope with the data onslaught (which yours seemingly can't). The benefit of a higher sampling rate is primarily enhanced detail, particularly stereo width and more obviously, depth. Hijack over.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention improved transient response as well. Silly me.

Offline fguidry

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Re: H6 froze at rd last night
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2014, 02:27:34 PM »
I was running with the extra two inputs, 5 channels total. Upon startup with a 32 gb card it would not load until i removed the card and started the device. It worked the night before when i was running 48/24 but when i was running 192/24 it froze.

Doesn't this instantly cause you to question the SD card performance?

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Re: H6 froze at rd last night
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2014, 04:23:44 PM »
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention improved transient response as well. Silly me.

Nyquist'd have something to say about that too...


That's not to say there aren't reasons for having higher sample rates, but recording for human audiences isn't one of them. Sound effects generation (where you slow down things like bat squeaks) is one such, and plugin/digital processing where you are trying to spread out the aliasing effect of processing over a much larger area is another.

I seem to recall that the esteemed Mr. Stoppable, in one of the earlier sampling rate discussions, mentioned that up-sampling/processing/down-sampling would also accomplish this.

It does (thats what I do actually as I record at 44.1). Note, I said "having higher sample rates" not "recording at higher sample rates."  ;D

I kind of figured that from some of your previous posts, but thought I'd mention it anyway.  It's kind of counter-intuitive (to me at least), and I'd imagine it is more so for the 192 kHz believers. 

Offline GDfan

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Re: H6 froze at rd last night
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2014, 02:43:57 PM »
I was running with the extra two inputs, 5 channels total. Upon startup with a 32 gb card it would not load until i removed the card and started the device. It worked the night before when i was running 48/24 but when i was running 192/24 it froze.

What class SD card?
Try class 10 with UHS-1 that will have 400x or 600x; lots more bandwidth for all the data you are trying to write at once to the disk.

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Offline dnsacks

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Re: H6 froze at rd last night
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2014, 02:57:45 PM »
plus, always best to test, test, test, test in a controlled environment before venturing out into the real world.  I'd be sure to thoroughly test how the system works at 24/96 before assuming that it will reliably operate at that sample rate/bit depth

Offline vegeta_ban

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Re: H6 froze at rd last night
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2014, 09:41:59 AM »
Being a backup, I test it in the field because my SD 722 has yet to fail me.
Mics: Telefunken ELA M 260 Field Kit; Nakamichi cm 100/CP4 shotgun (CP 1&2); Nakamichi Cm 300 (CP 1, 2, & 3) x3  JB phantom power mod; Nakamichi Cm 1000s; Superlux CMH8K
Recorders: Sound Devices 722; Zoom F8; Edirol R44 Oade Concert Mod; Digimod UA5>Nomad Jukebox 3 (or Archos 605 wifi); Zoom H2; Zoom H6
Camcorder: Panasonic PV-GS300
Camera: Fujifilm X-E1 & various lenses; Fujifilm s100fs; Fujifilm S7000
Misc: Beachtek SVU-2

Offline 404 Not Found

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Re: H6 froze at rd last night
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2014, 10:19:47 AM »
I have yet to have any problems recording at 24/96 with my H6, as that has been the only Bit and SR I have run with the H6.  I am using both Monster 32 and 64 gig SDHC  C10 cards.  I also run the optional backup through the H6 at times while recording at certain venues and or bands. No issues at all...knock on wood! 
Recorders: Alesis HD24XR | Marantz PMD661 (Oade Warm Mod) | Sound Devices 552 |Zoom F8 | Zoom H6
Pre-Amp/Mic Mixers/PS: Sound Devices 552 | Sound Devices MixPre-D | Shure FP33 | Audix APS911's | Audio Technica AT8501
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