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Author Topic: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question  (Read 10960 times)

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Offline F.O.Bean

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Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« on: December 22, 2005, 06:40:13 PM »
So I was talking to toddr about the modsbm1 I am gonna grab, and he said if running BOTH the v3 at full for patchers and the V3>modsbm1 at full for myself, I am gonna OVERLOAD the v3 analog outs bigtime, so my question is, what would be an optimal attenuator to run out of the v3's analog outs ???

the AT ones are nice and also switchable at 10/20/30 pads, but there is a whirlwind one that is a fixed 30db attenuation and was wondering if you all thought that might be too much attenuation for the modsbm1 end and I am thinking i may not get good enuf levels on the sbm1 end ???

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=324507&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

Thoughts?

I hate to shell out 43 a piece for the AT switchable attenuators when I can get TWO whirlwind fixed 30pads for only 20 each, cheaper than one of the AT ones

someone who knows the v3 better than me, Id love to hear from, particularly toddr

Thanks and happy holidays,
Bean

Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

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Offline Kyle

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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2005, 06:53:03 PM »
Bean,


IMO,
The SBM1 you are getting - it has the coax mod - right? So I am guessing that there is a coax out and the female seven pin that is built in. If you are getting a male 7pin to optical for the jb3, give the patchers the coax out from the sbm1. Don't attenuate your signal for the convienience of the patchers. Not trying to sounds like a dick, but your recording comes first. If they want the V3 adc signal, they can take it and then boost the levels in post.
Schoeps CMC6/MK4  //  Nakamichi CM-300/CP-1/CP-2
E.A.A. PSP-2   // Grace Design Lunatec V2
Sonic AD2K+ 
Tascam HD-P2 (Oade BCM)  //  Sony TC-D5 PROII
 
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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2005, 06:58:34 PM »
Bean,


IMO,
The SBM1 you are getting - it has the coax mod - right? So I am guessing that there is a coax out and the female seven pin that is built in. If you are getting a male 7pin to optical for the jb3, give the patchers the coax out from the sbm1. Don't attenuate your signal for the convienience of the patchers. Not trying to sounds like a dick, but your recording comes first. If they want the V3 adc signal, they can take it and then boost the levels in post.

im not really doing it for patchers, just assuming ;) I havent had a patcher in years 8)

I WOULD however like to have a backup or something, so rather than running the v3 low gain and the sbm1 cranked, I wanna run the v3 levels like normal for backup and have the sbm1 copy for kicks ;D

and when I go 24-bit, I can run the v3 full throttle, and the sbm1 as a 16-bit backup/patcher/etc line

w/out attenuators, that would be useless
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Offline bluegrass_brad

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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2005, 06:59:30 PM »
The higher you run the SBM-1 the better off youll be
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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2005, 07:04:46 PM »
The higher you run the SBM-1 the better off youll be

exactly what ive heard, thats why I wanna know which attenuator would/should work the best ;)
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2005, 07:16:12 PM »
Per the V3 manual, at 0 dBFS on the V3 the analog outputs produce a +25 dBu balanced signal.  But if I recall the modSBM-1 takes an unbalanced signal, so by unbalancing it'll drop down to +19 dBu.  However, I don't recall whether the modSBM-1 takes a pro (+4 dBu) or consumer (-7.8 dBu, or -10 dBV) line level.

If the modSBM-1 takes a pro line level (+4 dBu), then you'll need ~15 dBu attenuator (19 dBu - 4 dBu).

If it takes a consumer line level (-7.8 dBu), then you'll need ~27 dBu attenuator (19 dBu - (-7.8 dBu)).

I think.  Hopefully someone who's stronger than me technically can confirm or clarify.

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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2005, 07:29:31 PM »
Per the V3 manual, at 0 dBFS on the V3 the analog outputs produce a +25 dBu balanced signal.  But if I recall the modSBM-1 takes an unbalanced signal, so by unbalancing it'll drop down to +19 dBu.  However, I don't recall whether the modSBM-1 takes a pro (+4 dBu) or consumer (-7.8 dBu, or -10 dBV) line level.

If the modSBM-1 takes a pro line level (+4 dBu), then you'll need ~15 dBu attenuator (19 dBu - 4 dBu).

If it takes a consumer line level (-7.8 dBu), then you'll need ~27 dBu attenuator (19 dBu - (-7.8 dBu)).

I think.  Hopefully someone who's stronger than me technically can confirm or clarify.



thanks brian, I couldnt find my v3 manual right away ;)

I think todd said the sbm1 takes a pro-line at +4dbu, so that would mean a 15 attenuator, well, I have never seen a -15 db attenuator, so either 10 or 20 is gonna have to work, and If i recall, the sbm1 doesnt technically add 'gain' its really just an attenuator itself, ala the v2 trim, so if i get a 20 db pad, i may not have enuf juice, correct, and if i had a 10db attenuator i could run the sbm1 at 5, correct?

Im a bit confused to be honest
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Offline Kyle

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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2005, 07:36:25 PM »
Bean,


IMO,
The SBM1 you are getting - it has the coax mod - right? So I am guessing that there is a coax out and the female seven pin that is built in. If you are getting a male 7pin to optical for the jb3, give the patchers the coax out from the sbm1. Don't attenuate your signal for the convienience of the patchers. Not trying to sounds like a dick, but your recording comes first. If they want the V3 adc signal, they can take it and then boost the levels in post.

im not really doing it for patchers, just assuming ;) I havent had a patcher in years 8)

I WOULD however like to have a backup or something, so rather than running the v3 low gain and the sbm1 cranked, I wanna run the v3 levels like normal for backup and have the sbm1 copy for kicks ;D

and when I go 24-bit, I can run the v3 full throttle, and the sbm1 as a 16-bit backup/patcher/etc line

w/out attenuators, that would be useless

gotcha - wasn't quite sure what you were trying to do :coolguy:
Schoeps CMC6/MK4  //  Nakamichi CM-300/CP-1/CP-2
E.A.A. PSP-2   // Grace Design Lunatec V2
Sonic AD2K+ 
Tascam HD-P2 (Oade BCM)  //  Sony TC-D5 PROII
 
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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2005, 07:38:21 PM »
Bean,


IMO,
The SBM1 you are getting - it has the coax mod - right? So I am guessing that there is a coax out and the female seven pin that is built in. If you are getting a male 7pin to optical for the jb3, give the patchers the coax out from the sbm1. Don't attenuate your signal for the convienience of the patchers. Not trying to sounds like a dick, but your recording comes first. If they want the V3 adc signal, they can take it and then boost the levels in post.

im not really doing it for patchers, just assuming ;) I havent had a patcher in years 8)

I WOULD however like to have a backup or something, so rather than running the v3 low gain and the sbm1 cranked, I wanna run the v3 levels like normal for backup and have the sbm1 copy for kicks ;D

and when I go 24-bit, I can run the v3 full throttle, and the sbm1 as a 16-bit backup/patcher/etc line

w/out attenuators, that would be useless

gotcha - wasn't quite sure what you were trying to do :coolguy:

Kyle-can i borrow the psp-2 sometime possibly? prolly wont be until feb/march ;)

Id love to run psp2>v3 and psp-2>modsbm1

I like to have many options like you 8)
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Offline BC

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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2005, 07:47:46 PM »
did you try adjusting the level on the SBM1 to match the levels from the digi out on the V3? 



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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2005, 07:58:41 PM »
did you try adjusting the level on the SBM1 to match the levels from the digi out on the V3? 





dont have it yet, but talked to toddr in a PM, and he said hes tried many times and the v3 always overloads the modsbm1, so just going by what todd said, whom i trust very much ;D so i'll take his word for it
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Offline Kyle

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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2005, 08:08:13 PM »
Bean,


IMO,
The SBM1 you are getting - it has the coax mod - right? So I am guessing that there is a coax out and the female seven pin that is built in. If you are getting a male 7pin to optical for the jb3, give the patchers the coax out from the sbm1. Don't attenuate your signal for the convienience of the patchers. Not trying to sounds like a dick, but your recording comes first. If they want the V3 adc signal, they can take it and then boost the levels in post.

im not really doing it for patchers, just assuming ;) I havent had a patcher in years 8)

I WOULD however like to have a backup or something, so rather than running the v3 low gain and the sbm1 cranked, I wanna run the v3 levels like normal for backup and have the sbm1 copy for kicks ;D

and when I go 24-bit, I can run the v3 full throttle, and the sbm1 as a 16-bit backup/patcher/etc line

w/out attenuators, that would be useless

gotcha - wasn't quite sure what you were trying to do :coolguy:

Kyle-can i borrow the psp-2 sometime possibly? prolly wont be until feb/march ;)

Id love to run psp2>v3 and psp-2>modsbm1

I like to have many options like you 8)

Let's mix it up ;D 8)

I have been wanting to hear the V3>PSP2 combo as well (and w/ the SBM1)
Would love to take those setups on-stage and really hear what they can do...
Schoeps CMC6/MK4  //  Nakamichi CM-300/CP-1/CP-2
E.A.A. PSP-2   // Grace Design Lunatec V2
Sonic AD2K+ 
Tascam HD-P2 (Oade BCM)  //  Sony TC-D5 PROII
 
Duncan - 12/84 > 8/8/05 - Miss you everyday

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2005, 08:13:29 PM »
Bean,


IMO,
The SBM1 you are getting - it has the coax mod - right? So I am guessing that there is a coax out and the female seven pin that is built in. If you are getting a male 7pin to optical for the jb3, give the patchers the coax out from the sbm1. Don't attenuate your signal for the convienience of the patchers. Not trying to sounds like a dick, but your recording comes first. If they want the V3 adc signal, they can take it and then boost the levels in post.

im not really doing it for patchers, just assuming ;) I havent had a patcher in years 8)

I WOULD however like to have a backup or something, so rather than running the v3 low gain and the sbm1 cranked, I wanna run the v3 levels like normal for backup and have the sbm1 copy for kicks ;D

and when I go 24-bit, I can run the v3 full throttle, and the sbm1 as a 16-bit backup/patcher/etc line

w/out attenuators, that would be useless

gotcha - wasn't quite sure what you were trying to do :coolguy:

Kyle-can i borrow the psp-2 sometime possibly? prolly wont be until feb/march ;)

Id love to run psp2>v3 and psp-2>modsbm1

I like to have many options like you 8)

Let's mix it up ;D 8)

I have been wanting to hear the V3>PSP2 combo as well (and w/ the SBM1)
Would love to take those setups on-stage and really hear what they can do...

Lotus Feb 17, its a friday and I'll be there stage-lip ;D mr smalls ;D

lets dooooooetttt!

Id like to run 481>psp-2>v3 maybe and you can run schoeps >v2>modsbm1 or something

I REALLY like my lotus stage lip tapes that are just straight 481>v3

SOOOO much life and energy ;D perfect balance IMO
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Offline BC

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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2005, 08:20:34 PM »
I have an idea of a little test you can run to see how much attenuation you need.

1) See what levels the V3 is outputting from the SPDIF at some given gain.

2) Then see where you have to set the gain on the V3 to get the same output level from the SBM1 (maybe set your SBM dial around 7 or so for this step?).

3) Then, the difference in gain setting on the V3 for step 1 vs step 2 could be the amount of attenuation you need?     ???   


In: DPA4022>V3>Microtracker/D8

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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2005, 08:26:16 PM »
I know, im just antsy, and was gonna order some attenuators even before the sbm1 arrives, and i was hoping someone has a technical answer or something 8)

Like i said, im just antsy, and wanna spend some money on myself :)
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Offline Kyle

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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2005, 08:44:06 PM »
Bean,


IMO,
The SBM1 you are getting - it has the coax mod - right? So I am guessing that there is a coax out and the female seven pin that is built in. If you are getting a male 7pin to optical for the jb3, give the patchers the coax out from the sbm1. Don't attenuate your signal for the convienience of the patchers. Not trying to sounds like a dick, but your recording comes first. If they want the V3 adc signal, they can take it and then boost the levels in post.

im not really doing it for patchers, just assuming ;) I havent had a patcher in years 8)

I WOULD however like to have a backup or something, so rather than running the v3 low gain and the sbm1 cranked, I wanna run the v3 levels like normal for backup and have the sbm1 copy for kicks ;D

and when I go 24-bit, I can run the v3 full throttle, and the sbm1 as a 16-bit backup/patcher/etc line

w/out attenuators, that would be useless

gotcha - wasn't quite sure what you were trying to do :coolguy:

Kyle-can i borrow the psp-2 sometime possibly? prolly wont be until feb/march ;)

Id love to run psp2>v3 and psp-2>modsbm1

I like to have many options like you 8)

Let's mix it up ;D 8)

I have been wanting to hear the V3>PSP2 combo as well (and w/ the SBM1)
Would love to take those setups on-stage and really hear what they can do...

Lotus Feb 17, its a friday and I'll be there stage-lip ;D mr smalls ;D

lets dooooooetttt!

Id like to run 481>psp-2>v3 maybe and you can run schoeps >v2>modsbm1 or something

I REALLY like my lotus stage lip tapes that are just straight 481>v3

SOOOO much life and energy ;D perfect balance IMO

Haha, that's funny - I was just going to ask you when Lotus was palying here next ;D

I think we have a winner 8)

If I am lucky I will have the Flashcan by then - we can run comps on the adc stage...
Schoeps CMC6/MK4  //  Nakamichi CM-300/CP-1/CP-2
E.A.A. PSP-2   // Grace Design Lunatec V2
Sonic AD2K+ 
Tascam HD-P2 (Oade BCM)  //  Sony TC-D5 PROII
 
Duncan - 12/84 > 8/8/05 - Miss you everyday

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2005, 08:47:47 PM »
Bean,


IMO,
The SBM1 you are getting - it has the coax mod - right? So I am guessing that there is a coax out and the female seven pin that is built in. If you are getting a male 7pin to optical for the jb3, give the patchers the coax out from the sbm1. Don't attenuate your signal for the convienience of the patchers. Not trying to sounds like a dick, but your recording comes first. If they want the V3 adc signal, they can take it and then boost the levels in post.

im not really doing it for patchers, just assuming ;) I havent had a patcher in years 8)

I WOULD however like to have a backup or something, so rather than running the v3 low gain and the sbm1 cranked, I wanna run the v3 levels like normal for backup and have the sbm1 copy for kicks ;D

and when I go 24-bit, I can run the v3 full throttle, and the sbm1 as a 16-bit backup/patcher/etc line

w/out attenuators, that would be useless

gotcha - wasn't quite sure what you were trying to do :coolguy:

Kyle-can i borrow the psp-2 sometime possibly? prolly wont be until feb/march ;)

Id love to run psp2>v3 and psp-2>modsbm1

I like to have many options like you 8)

Let's mix it up ;D 8)

I have been wanting to hear the V3>PSP2 combo as well (and w/ the SBM1)
Would love to take those setups on-stage and really hear what they can do...

Lotus Feb 17, its a friday and I'll be there stage-lip ;D mr smalls ;D

lets dooooooetttt!

Id like to run 481>psp-2>v3 maybe and you can run schoeps >v2>modsbm1 or something

I REALLY like my lotus stage lip tapes that are just straight 481>v3

SOOOO much life and energy ;D perfect balance IMO

Haha, that's funny - I was just going to ask you when Lotus was palying here next ;D

I think we have a winner 8)

If I am lucky I will have the Flashcan by then - we can run comps on the adc stage...

I MAY have one by then as well, but doubtful, we'll see tho 8)
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Offline Todd R

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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2005, 05:03:43 PM »
Well, I was really just guessing the SBM1 would take +4dbu.  But I just checked the manual in the archive section.  According to the manual, the SBM1 can only take -3.8dbu (500mv) at the line in.  The V3 puts out +19dbu on unbalanced analog out at 0dbFS.  So it looks like to be safe, you'd need 25db attenuators (22.8db to be exact).  Or run the V3 with peaks no more than -24dbFS, which doesn't sound like a good idea if you have patchers or are running a deck straight out of the V3.
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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2005, 05:07:12 PM »
Well, I was really just guessing the SBM1 would take +4dbu.  But I just checked the manual in the archive section.  According to the manual, the SBM1 can only take -3.8dbu (500mv) at the line in.  The V3 puts out +19dbu on unbalanced analog out at 0dbFS.  So it looks like to be safe, you'd need 25db attenuators (22.8db to be exact).  Or run the V3 with peaks no more than -24dbFS, which doesn't sound like a good idea if you have patchers or are running a deck straight out of the V3.

damnit, i have never seen a 25db pad, only 20 and 30

which one would you run todd ??? 20 or 30
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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2005, 05:25:03 PM »
actually, found this, but its expensive :'(

http://www.fullcompass.com/Products/pages/SKU--9310/
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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2005, 05:31:42 PM »
so w/ the -25dB attenuator, I can run the v3 full throttle AND the modsbm1 full throttle ???

is the -25 db one gonna be enuf to push the sbm1 all the way ??? or should i get a -20dB one and come down a few db's on the modsbm1 ???
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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2005, 02:17:50 PM »
Experimentation is probably the answer, unfortunately.  But I doubt -25db would get you at full throttle (10) on the SBM1.  The -3.8dbu is the highest signal level the SBM1 can take without brickwalling, according to Sony.  I would imagine that would put you at about 4 or so on the SBM1.  As long as you are already putting an attenuator into the circuit, I'd go with the -30db pad.
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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2005, 02:23:48 PM »
Experimentation is probably the answer, unfortunately.  But I doubt -25db would get you at full throttle (10) on the SBM1.  The -3.8dbu is the highest signal level the SBM1 can take without brickwalling, according to Sony.  I would imagine that would put you at about 4 or so on the SBM1.  As long as you are already putting an attenuator into the circuit, I'd go with the -30db pad.

regarding the -30dB pad, what kind of levels would that get me on the sbm1 end tho ??? like -9dB at peaks, correct?

Here is my goal, tyo come to0db or very near at peaks on the v3 AND also the sbm1, w/ out overloading the sbm1, and also having peaks at or very near 0dB at the digi-out of the modsbm1
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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2005, 02:34:51 PM »

regarding the -30dB pad, what kind of levels would that get me on the sbm1 end tho ??? like -9dB at peaks, correct?


Sorry, I don't know what you're getting at here. ???

Looking again at the SBM1 manual though, it says minimum line level signal is -22dbu (and max is -3.8dbu).  So it looks like it can provide up to about 18db of gain.  Meaning that a -30db attenuator with the V3 at full throttle (+25dbu output balanced, +19dbu output balanced) should get you right in the middle of the usable input level for the SBM1.  I have no idea where that would be on the gain dial of the SBM1, but I'd guess somewhere between say 4 and 8.  If you want to dial in the SBM1 to some exact gain setting (ie, you want it at 9), there is no way you're going to be able to figure that out so exactly without doing a bit of experimentation with the SBM1 and V3.  Personally, I wouldn't bother.  Get the -30db pads and try them out with everyting.  If it turns out they don't work, return them. :)
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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2005, 02:43:15 PM »

regarding the -30dB pad, what kind of levels would that get me on the sbm1 end tho ??? like -9dB at peaks, correct?


Sorry, I don't know what you're getting at here. ???

Looking again at the SBM1 manual though, it says minimum line level signal is -22dbu (and max is -3.8dbu).  So it looks like it can provide up to about 18db of gain.  Meaning that a -30db attenuator with the V3 at full throttle (+25dbu output balanced, +19dbu output balanced) should get you right in the middle of the usable input level for the SBM1.  I have no idea where that would be on the gain dial of the SBM1, but I'd guess somewhere between say 4 and 8.  If you want to dial in the SBM1 to some exact gain setting (ie, you want it at 9), there is no way you're going to be able to figure that out so exactly without doing a bit of experimentation with the SBM1 and V3.  Personally, I wouldn't bother.  Get the -30db pads and try them out with everyting.  If it turns out they don't work, return them. :)

+T todd, THANK YOU very much for your help on this, this tsuff is kind of confusing to me

what i menat by 'full throttle' was running them at or near zero (0dB) so that i dont have to do any normalizing and i also dont wnat the modsbm1 to overload in the process, but id also like the sbm1 levels at or near 0db at peaks as well as the v3

so thats what im gonna do, buy the -30's and go from there :)
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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #25 on: December 24, 2005, 02:57:42 PM »
So are you saying you'd be running the V3 with gain full right as well as full right on the sbm1? I'm talking about the knobs....

This stuff sorta confuses me too, and I'm getting some attenuators for my mp-2 so I'm thinking about this stuff from time to time.

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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #26 on: December 24, 2005, 03:06:57 PM »
no, not the knobs full throttle, just so peaks are at or near 0db, so i dont have to normalize/change gain in post ;)

I dont think i made myself clear enuf in the earlier posts
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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #27 on: December 24, 2005, 05:23:44 PM »
no, not the knobs full throttle, just so peaks are at or near 0db, so i dont have to normalize/change gain in post ;)

I dont think i made myself clear enuf in the earlier posts

Ah I see, that makes good sense. Thanks!

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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #28 on: December 24, 2005, 05:50:42 PM »
Bean

i have some 10/20/30 Attenuators that i think i could let you borrow. if you wanted to test it out before you buy some

Rapahel

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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #29 on: December 24, 2005, 10:37:39 PM »
Bean

i have some 10/20/30 Attenuators that i think i could let you borrow. if you wanted to test it out before you buy some

Rapahel

thanks for the offer bud, I may have to take you up on that :)

I'm itchin to buy the -30 ones tho

Thanks for the offer and I'll be in touch!

Happy Holidays!

Bean
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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #30 on: April 07, 2006, 07:34:08 AM »
how are the attenuators integrated into the gear chain?  are they plugged directly into the v3 analog outs? 
the reason I ask is b/c I run my v3 vertical (I think bean uses a cage) and plugging them directly into the back just isn't going to work for me since it is currently resting on my right angle xlr's. 

can't custom cables be made with 30 dB attenuators built into them?

FWIW, with the 480>v3>modsbm1 combo, i am running -30db attenuators on the v3 output>sbm1 so it doesnt get ridiculously overloaded levels from running the v3 near 0db for the straight v3 source

BUT, if you wanna just use the v3 as an ad rather than as an all-in-one, the -30db attenuators arent needed and also, you can shut the a>d section of the v3 off and conserve battery power as well

I ran the V3 > SBM last week for the first time and didn't have any overload problems.  Ran the V3 smoking HOT like I like to and ran the SBM line in around 2 I think.  Didn't have any overloaded levels.   

Am I doing something wrong or different Bean?  When I used to run the 316 > SBM i'd do the same thing.  Run the 316 hotter than hell and throttle back the SBM.

i just always heard that its better to run the modsbm1 at a higher level, so i run my v3>-30db attenuators>modsbm1 and run the modsbm1 at 8 out of ten, that way the v3 is run at 30-35db of gain and the sbm1 at 8 to both get at or near 0db

so it's better to attenuate the signal (and run the sbm1 almost wide open, ~8) than run the sbm1 low (~2, with no attenuators)?  isn't it simply two different ways to achieve the same output level?  isn't the sbm1 simply "attenuating" the signal when run at a lower level? 

I guess I don't understand how running external attenuators is going to sound better than using the attenuation of the bit mapper.

mine are plugged directly into the v3

as far as why to run attenuators, , i dont know, just did what a few folks suggested including toddr and the tapes have sounded fantastic so...........

if youre happy w/ the way the v3>modsbm1 levels/sound is w/ out the attenuators, then so be it, i may mess around and see if i like the sound w/ out the attenuators

also, i heard that running the modsbm1 more wide open like i do at 8 will yield more modsbm1 sound, which was what i was looking for, a more fatter/rounded sound compared to the v3, and i always figured that could be achieved by running more on the modsbm1 end, ala me running it at 8 compared to 2-3
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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #31 on: April 07, 2006, 11:06:15 AM »
I guess I don't understand how running external attenuators is going to sound better than using the attenuation of the bit mapper.

It'll sound better since the output of the V3 is way too hot for the SBM1. :o 

Really, I don't understand how people say they run this combo without attenuators.  A local taper here swore he'd do that without issue (I think he has since recanted), so I tried with my gear back when I had an SBM1.  The recording came out totally fuct.  But he kept swearing he did it with no problems, which made me wonder if my SBM1 was bad.

Then I started modding SBM1's, and would always test each one before working on it, to make sure it was working properly.  As part of this testing, I decided to also test out the V3>SBM1 issue, with the V3 running at -2dbFS to 0dbFS (ie, hot).  Not a single one of the SBM1's I tested could handle this signal coming out of the V3.  Always clipped/distorted.

Then of course, I tried the more obvious -- rather than experimenting, I just read the manuals.  At 0dbFS output, the V3 puts out a +24dbu signal on its analog outs, +21dbu if run unbalanced.  The SBM1 manual says the SBM1 can take a maximum signal level of -3.8dbV (about -1.5dbu).  So the V3 run hot puts out a signal that is 22dbu higher than be accepted by the SBM1.  Give it this level of signal and the SBM1 will totally clip/distort/brickwall.  The level attenuator on the SBM1 is post-gain, so using this will not help at all -- you're still feeding it far too hot a signal.

I got some resistors to make attenuator cables for the MT, but never got around to doing it.  I'll have to check the values, but I should be able to make attenuator cables for use with the SBM1.  No problem building them into regular XLR connectors, but I'm not sure about building them into right-angle XLRs.
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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #32 on: April 07, 2006, 11:32:50 AM »
I ran V3>sbm1 many times for 16bit backup/patchers and it definitely needs attenuators if you're maximizing your levels on the V3 for the 24bit output.
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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2006, 12:12:45 PM »
I guess I don't understand how running external attenuators is going to sound better than using the attenuation of the bit mapper.

It'll sound better since the output of the V3 is way too hot for the SBM1. :o 

Really, I don't understand how people say they run this combo without attenuators.  A local taper here swore he'd do that without issue (I think he has since recanted), so I tried with my gear back when I had an SBM1.  The recording came out totally fuct.  But he kept swearing he did it with no problems, which made me wonder if my SBM1 was bad.

Then I started modding SBM1's, and would always test each one before working on it, to make sure it was working properly.  As part of this testing, I decided to also test out the V3>SBM1 issue, with the V3 running at -2dbFS to 0dbFS (ie, hot).  Not a single one of the SBM1's I tested could handle this signal coming out of the V3.  Always clipped/distorted.

Then of course, I tried the more obvious -- rather than experimenting, I just read the manuals.  At 0dbFS output, the V3 puts out a +24dbu signal on its analog outs, +21dbu if run unbalanced.  The SBM1 manual says the SBM1 can take a maximum signal level of -3.8dbV (about -1.5dbu).  So the V3 run hot puts out a signal that is 22dbu higher than be accepted by the SBM1.  Give it this level of signal and the SBM1 will totally clip/distort/brickwall.  The level attenuator on the SBM1 is post-gain, so using this will not help at all -- you're still feeding it far too hot a signal.

I got some resistors to make attenuator cables for the MT, but never got around to doing it.  I'll have to check the values, but I should be able to make attenuator cables for use with the SBM1.  No problem building them into regular XLR connectors, but I'm not sure about building them into right-angle XLRs.

thanks for the more technical answer todd ;)
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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2006, 08:07:54 PM »
I guess I don't understand how running external attenuators is going to sound better than using the attenuation of the bit mapper.

It'll sound better since the output of the V3 is way too hot for the SBM1. :o 

Really, I don't understand how people say they run this combo without attenuators.  A local taper here swore he'd do that without issue (I think he has since recanted), so I tried with my gear back when I had an SBM1.  The recording came out totally fuct.  But he kept swearing he did it with no problems, which made me wonder if my SBM1 was bad.

Then I started modding SBM1's, and would always test each one before working on it, to make sure it was working properly.  As part of this testing, I decided to also test out the V3>SBM1 issue, with the V3 running at -2dbFS to 0dbFS (ie, hot).  Not a single one of the SBM1's I tested could handle this signal coming out of the V3.  Always clipped/distorted.

Then of course, I tried the more obvious -- rather than experimenting, I just read the manuals.  At 0dbFS output, the V3 puts out a +24dbu signal on its analog outs, +21dbu if run unbalanced.  The SBM1 manual says the SBM1 can take a maximum signal level of -3.8dbV (about -1.5dbu).  So the V3 run hot puts out a signal that is 22dbu higher than be accepted by the SBM1.  Give it this level of signal and the SBM1 will totally clip/distort/brickwall.  The level attenuator on the SBM1 is post-gain, so using this will not help at all -- you're still feeding it far too hot a signal.

I got some resistors to make attenuator cables for the MT, but never got around to doing it.  I'll have to check the values, but I should be able to make attenuator cables for use with the SBM1.  No problem building them into regular XLR connectors, but I'm not sure about building them into right-angle XLRs.
So does a v2 run just as hot?

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2006, 08:26:26 PM »
So does a v2 run just as hot?

Max V2 output, per the specs in the manual on Grace's website, is +27 dBu.  The issue ToddR outlined really only comes into play if one is using the digital -and- analog outputs of the V3 simultaneously.  If running only digi-out, doesn't matter what's coming out of the analog outputs, just disregard it.  If running only analog-out, simply set the levels accordingly for whatever device is next in the chain.
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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2006, 12:50:17 PM »
Looks like a 25dB pad would scale the V3 output level to the proper SBM-1 input level.  I have attached a schematic of a simple pad network that can be installed inside the female xlr connector.  These resistor values should work as long as the input impedance of the SBM-1 is not much below 10k Ohms.
I hope this helps!
Michael
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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2006, 01:59:30 PM »
Looks like a 25dB pad would scale the V3 output level to the proper SBM-1 input level.  I have attached a schematic of a simple pad network that can be installed inside the female xlr connector.  These resistor values should work as long as the input impedance of the SBM-1 is not much below 10k Ohms.
I hope this helps!
Michael

Thanks Mike.  Another reason why you have a LOYAL fan base.

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Lunatec V3 > Mod-SBM1 Attenuator Question
« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2006, 04:59:49 PM »
Looks like a 25dB pad would scale the V3 output level to the proper SBM-1 input level.  I have attached a schematic of a simple pad network that can be installed inside the female xlr connector.  These resistor values should work as long as the input impedance of the SBM-1 is not much below 10k Ohms.
I hope this helps!
Michael

Thanks Mike.  Another reason why you have a LOYAL fan base.

Mike is the man ;D

Like i stated earlier, if running digi and analog outs, a 30db pad works great for 480>v3>modsbm1
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

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