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Audio Technica CP8201 vs Hosa MIT 156?

Audio Technica CP8201
2 (50%)
Hosa MIT 156
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Author Topic: Transformer preference... Audio Technica CP8201 vs Hosa MIT 176?  (Read 10392 times)

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Offline Chuck

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Transformer preference... Audio Technica CP8201 vs Hosa MIT 176?
« on: November 06, 2006, 09:48:07 PM »
Is one better than the other? If so, why?
« Last Edit: November 07, 2006, 11:57:36 AM by Chuck »
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Transformer preference... Audio Technica CP8201 vs Hosa MIT 156?
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2006, 11:09:09 PM »
I think you mean MIT-176?  I've not heard a comparison of the two, but I used and liked the Hosa MIT-176.  IME, the pigtail helps break up the chain of connectors and reduces risk of straining the whole setup.
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Offline Church-Audio

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Re: Transformer preference... Audio Technica CP8201 vs Hosa MIT 156?
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2006, 12:16:16 AM »
Is one better than the other? If so, why?

Hosa makes cheap cables and even cheaper transformers they are of the same quality as Radio shack. The AT transformer is much better for one reason and one reason only AT makes good mics and they use good transformers in the production gear they sell. Hosa cable is NOT used by any professional studio or sound company I know of. Because the quality is just not there cheap molded ends cheap cable cheap transformers, Junk. But they are one of the only companies around that makes all the connection dodads so everyone uses them. Your much better off with Neutrik connectors and adaptors then Hosa. IMHO

A cheap transformer will do the following reduce bandwidth and increase distortion and they also have increased insurtion loss. A good transfomer is matched and falls with in specs of .5 db of its rating. So when you use them for a stereo input they will match up. Bad transformers are wound on a bobin with little to no care in how many windings there are in the transformer core. This makes a huge difference in performance and that is why Jensen is more then Hosa. With transformers you Do get what you pay for there are no short cuts.
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Offline Kyle

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Re: Transformer preference... Audio Technica CP8201 vs Hosa MIT 156?
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2006, 01:31:05 AM »
I have a pair of Shure A95UF transformers, and they seem to be rock solid. They a at least 13 years old and work like a charm. I do not use them much and can't really comment on their overall aural qualities (Chris Church please step in), but they will hold up and work for years and take much abuse. Just no pigtail :'( (really nice feature)

Also came with male and female adaptors, fwiw....
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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Transformer preference... Audio Technica CP8201 vs Hosa MIT 156?
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2006, 01:33:06 AM »
Hosa makes cheap cables and even cheaper transformers they are of the same quality as Radio shack.

The AT transformer is much better for one reason and one reason only AT makes good mics and they use good transformers in the production gear they sell. Hosa cable is NOT used by any professional studio or sound company I know of. Because the quality is just not there cheap molded ends cheap cable cheap transformers, Junk. But they are one of the only companies around that makes all the connection dodads so everyone uses them. Your much better off with Neutrik connectors and adaptors then Hosa. IMHO

You hit the nail on the head with why I've used Hosa stuff periodically - I know I can always find the interconnect / adapter doodads to make it all work.  I'm not surprised they use cheap transformers and the AT are better.  I'd still be curious to hear a comp, though I won't run one since I no longer use line transformers.  Thanks for your input, Chris.
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Offline Church-Audio

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Re: Transformer preference... Audio Technica CP8201 vs Hosa MIT 156?
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2006, 02:08:35 AM »
Hosa makes cheap cables and even cheaper transformers they are of the same quality as Radio shack.

The AT transformer is much better for one reason and one reason only AT makes good mics and they use good transformers in the production gear they sell. Hosa cable is NOT used by any professional studio or sound company I know of. Because the quality is just not there cheap molded ends cheap cable cheap transformers, Junk. But they are one of the only companies around that makes all the connection dodads so everyone uses them. Your much better off with Neutrik connectors and adaptors then Hosa. IMHO

You hit the nail on the head with why I've used Hosa stuff periodically - I know I can always find the interconnect / adapter doodads to make it all work.  I'm not surprised they use cheap transformers and the AT are better.  I'd still be curious to hear a comp, though I won't run one since I no longer use line transformers.  Thanks for your input, Chris.

No problem, I think people who are using transformers need to remember they can make or break your sound. I see allot of people just wacking a transformer in line and calling it a day. Good transformers cost real money, I just wanted to make sure people don't waste there money on cheap transformers. And remember that transformers are like microphones you would not use a $20 mic why use a $20 transformer :)


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Offline larrysellers

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Re: Transformer preference... Audio Technica CP8201 vs Hosa MIT 156?
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2006, 10:09:10 AM »
Hosa makes cheap cables and even cheaper transformers they are of the same quality as Radio shack.

The AT transformer is much better for one reason and one reason only AT makes good mics and they use good transformers in the production gear they sell. Hosa cable is NOT used by any professional studio or sound company I know of. Because the quality is just not there cheap molded ends cheap cable cheap transformers, Junk. But they are one of the only companies around that makes all the connection dodads so everyone uses them. Your much better off with Neutrik connectors and adaptors then Hosa. IMHO

You hit the nail on the head with why I've used Hosa stuff periodically - I know I can always find the interconnect / adapter doodads to make it all work.  I'm not surprised they use cheap transformers and the AT are better.  I'd still be curious to hear a comp, though I won't run one since I no longer use line transformers.  Thanks for your input, Chris.

No problem, I think people who are using transformers need to remember they can make or break your sound. I see allot of people just wacking a transformer in line and calling it a day. Good transformers cost real money, I just wanted to make sure people don't waste there money on cheap transformers. And remember that transformers are like microphones you would not use a $20 mic why use a $20 transformer :)


Chris Church


Chris,
       How about a making a nice steath pre with Jensen transformers? 9v power for the mics and transformers in one box (maybe even gain control)...golden.

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: Transformer preference... Audio Technica CP8201 vs Hosa MIT 156?
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2006, 10:36:22 AM »
Hosa makes cheap cables and even cheaper transformers they are of the same quality as Radio shack.

The AT transformer is much better for one reason and one reason only AT makes good mics and they use good transformers in the production gear they sell. Hosa cable is NOT used by any professional studio or sound company I know of. Because the quality is just not there cheap molded ends cheap cable cheap transformers, Junk. But they are one of the only companies around that makes all the connection dodads so everyone uses them. Your much better off with Neutrik connectors and adaptors then Hosa. IMHO

You hit the nail on the head with why I've used Hosa stuff periodically - I know I can always find the interconnect / adapter doodads to make it all work.  I'm not surprised they use cheap transformers and the AT are better.  I'd still be curious to hear a comp, though I won't run one since I no longer use line transformers.  Thanks for your input, Chris.

No problem, I think people who are using transformers need to remember they can make or break your sound. I see allot of people just wacking a transformer in line and calling it a day. Good transformers cost real money, I just wanted to make sure people don't waste there money on cheap transformers. And remember that transformers are like microphones you would not use a $20 mic why use a $20 transformer :)


Chris Church


Chris,
       How about a making a nice steath pre with Jensen transformers? 9v power for the mics and transformers in one box (maybe even gain control)...golden.

If someone would pay me to build it I would love to. But I cant spend the time on a project unless there is a buyer I am so busy now I know there is a huge market here for that product. I am working on a few designs right now, but they are still in the prototype stage.
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Offline JasonSobel

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Re: Transformer preference... Audio Technica CP8201 vs Hosa MIT 156?
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2006, 10:56:43 AM »
I just wanted to make sure people don't waste there money on cheap transformers. And remember that transformers are like microphones you would not use a $20 mic why use a $20 transformer :)

well, it might be worth-while to check out a cheaper transformer and see how it sounds to you.  for a short while, I used a pair of radio shack transformers, and I was happy with the results.  in fact, I thought using a Denecke PS2 for phantom power and the RS transformers produced better results than my Beyer MV-100 pre-amp.  and then, after 5 or 6 months with the transformers, I bought my V3.

anyway, my point is that if you spend $20 on a set of transformers, you might find that they fit your needs just perfectly.  now, it won't sound like an oade 148, or a Neve Portico, or any other really nice transformer-based pre-amp...  but you might be surprised by what you hear.  and if you don't like it, you are only out $20.
as an example, here's a real nice Karl Denson show that I taped with those radio shack transformers:
http://www.archive.org/details/kdtu2003-04-09.shnf

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Transformer preference... Audio Technica CP8201 vs Hosa MIT 156?
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2006, 11:09:06 AM »
I just wanted to make sure people don't waste there money on cheap transformers. And remember that transformers are like microphones you would not use a $20 mic why use a $20 transformer :)

well, it might be worth-while to check out a cheaper transformer and see how it sounds to you.

Jason has a good point here.  Budget usually drives the decision to go with line transformers, and the immediate options - before one stashes away cash for further upgrades - are only two:  run with not enough gain, or use an inexpensive pair of line transformers to provide enough gain to run better levels.
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Offline Chuck

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Re: Transformer preference... Audio Technica CP8201 vs Hosa MIT 156?
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2006, 12:00:05 PM »
I think you mean MIT-176?  I've not heard a comparison of the two, but I used and liked the Hosa MIT-176.  IME, the pigtail helps break up the chain of connectors and reduces risk of straining the whole setup.

Oppss... yup.

I have two of the CP8201's. They are separated from the XLR shell, so I can actually see the transformer used. They look very cheap.
I have not seen the Hosa's.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

Microphones: AKG C 480 B comb-ULS/ CK 61/ CK 63, Sennheiser MKE 2 elements,  Audix M1290-o, Micro capsule active cables w/ Naiant PFA's, Naiant MSH-1O, Naiant AKG Active cables, Church CA-11 (cardioid), (1) Nady SCM-1000 (mod)
Pre-amps: Naiant littlebox, Naiant littlekit v2.0, BM2p+ Edirol UA-5, Church STC-9000
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-6, iRiver iHP-120 (Rockboxed & RTC mod)

Recordings on the LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/ChuckM
Recording website & blog: http://www.timebetweenthenotes.com

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: Transformer preference... Audio Technica CP8201 vs Hosa MIT 156?
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2006, 12:09:36 PM »
I just wanted to make sure people don't waste there money on cheap transformers. And remember that transformers are like microphones you would not use a $20 mic why use a $20 transformer :)

well, it might be worth-while to check out a cheaper transformer and see how it sounds to you.  for a short while, I used a pair of radio shack transformers, and I was happy with the results.  in fact, I thought using a Denecke PS2 for phantom power and the RS transformers produced better results than my Beyer MV-100 pre-amp.  and then, after 5 or 6 months with the transformers, I bought my V3.

anyway, my point is that if you spend $20 on a set of transformers, you might find that they fit your needs just perfectly.  now, it won't sound like an oade 148, or a Neve Portico, or any other really nice transformer-based pre-amp...  but you might be surprised by what you hear.  and if you don't like it, you are only out $20.
as an example, here's a real nice Karl Denson show that I taped with those radio shack transformers:
http://www.archive.org/details/kdtu2003-04-09.shnf


Cheap transformers do not have the low end response or the high end response of good transformers, there are no shortcuts. If someone wants to send me a good transformer over and a radioshack I can measure it and show the difference, now I am not saying rely on measurements alone. You might not hear it if you have nothing to compare it to, but when you do it will be very obvious.

Transformers are more important then wire in the audio chain they are more important then the type of recorder being used. I can't stress this enough that you can spend lots of money on a great mic, but if your using cheap transformers you would be better off with cheap mics. There is a reason why not to many companies get into making transformers it's because alot of it is science and some of it is luck.

Take for example a guitar amp (tube) change the output transformer, you change the sound big time. The same goes for audio input transformer's. You might have a very nice recording with Radio Shack transformers, but I will bet you put the same mics up in the same concert in the same exact mic position, with good transformers and your jaw will drop. You will want to burn your radio shack transformers.

A transformer is like a transducer, there is an electro magnetic transfer function going on inside this thing, that when its done right is very good when its done wrong is very bad. I know so much about transformers because as a sound system designer / engineer, I used them all the time, and I have heard cheap transformers right along side good ones. The one companies I did some work for, did not just take my word for it, they listened them selves decided that the $30 transformers were not acceptable and went with the $150 transformers, in a project that required 128 of them. I am just putting my two cents in rant over :)


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Offline Church-Audio

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Re: Transformer preference... Audio Technica CP8201 vs Hosa MIT 156?
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2006, 12:11:19 PM »
I think you mean MIT-176?  I've not heard a comparison of the two, but I used and liked the Hosa MIT-176.  IME, the pigtail helps break up the chain of connectors and reduces risk of straining the whole setup.

Oppss... yup.

I have two of the CP8201's. They are separated from the XLR shell, so I can actually see the transformer used. They look very cheap.
I have not seen the Hosa's.


You can not go by looks with a transfomer :) I have seen some very pretty transfomers sound like $@!t, and some very ugly ones sound like a dream.
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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Transformer preference... Audio Technica CP8201 vs Hosa MIT 156?
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2006, 12:23:22 PM »
Take for example a guitar amp (tube) change the output transformer, you change the sound big time. The same goes for audio input transformer's. You might have a very nice recording with Radio Shack transformers, but I will bet you put the same mics up in the same concert in the same exact mic position, with good transformers and your jaw will drop. You will want to burn your radio shack transformers.

This makes sense to me - and really, it extends to the gain stage as a whole having a significant impact on the results, regardless of whether the gain stage is transformer-based or not.  But I do believe inexpensive transformers provide a reasonable short-term solution to the problem of not enough gain for good levels.

Chris, in your mind, what's preferable - <1> no transformers with low levels and therefore higher noise floor, or <2> inexpensive transformers with proper levels and lower noise floor?  (I suppose there's a third option of inexpensive transformers with proper levels and a high noise floor, if the transformers themselves introduce significant self-noise into the system.  And obviously, one must take into account the noise floor of the rest of the gear, but...generally speaking is all I'm trying to get at.)
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Offline JasonSobel

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Re: Transformer preference... Audio Technica CP8201 vs Hosa MIT 176?
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2006, 12:37:27 PM »
Cheap transformers do not have the low end response or the high end response of good transformers, there are no shortcuts.

Im not suggesting that cheaper transformers perform anywhere near as well as more expensive transformers.  What I'm saying is that as an intermediate solution (until I could save up more money to buy a very nice pre-amp), the cheap solution was to buy a cheap set of transformers, and that was good enough for me, at the time.

The one companies I did some work for, did not just take my word for it, they listened them selves decided that the $30 transformers were not acceptable and went with the $150 transformers, in a project that required 128 of them. I am just putting my two cents in rant over :)

that's exactly my point.  the company you worked with had to decide on their own.  they decided that $30 transformers were not acceptable and went with more expensive ones.  I'm only suggesting that someone try out the cheaper ones because he/she may find that the cheaper ones are acceptable to him/her.  and if they aren't acceptable and don't sound good, you are not out a lot of money.

 

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