Topic: Sony PCM-M10 audio recorder - NEW

[flintstone]

Thanks, tekdroid, for the comparison of the D50 and M10!

Let's add Cross-Memory Recording to the features the M10 has and the D50 lacks.

We should also note that the M10 has a higher level of mic preamp noise than the D50 has, although the difference would be noticeable only when recording a very quiet source with mics that also have very low self-noise.

Flintstone

[Ozpeter]

* fixed integrated mics versus movable

Cardiod vs omni should also be mentioned (which is why the M10 mics don't move - not much point with omnis).

[tekdroid]

* fixed integrated mics versus movable

Cardiod vs omni should also be mentioned (which is why the M10 mics don't move - not much point with omnis).

Excellent point which I totally overlooked.
I've edited the post to say that, and I've also taken out my bit about it not including an AC adaptor, 'cause apparently it does (at least in the US model, I presume).



This Sony press release states that the PCM-M10P (Professional) model [Professional meaning simply bundled with windscreen] will be selling in November:
http://www.sony-asia.com/pressrelease/asset/345750/section/regionalpressreleases

It also states matte 'black' finish instead of gloss on the Consumer [non-P] version. The black description I always found confusing 'cause all models look grey to me, and they all looked matte.

Whoever did the image editing on that page may make the reader believe that the P version of the unit is larger, too.   

[tekdroid]

...if you join their web site they will send you 3 free swatches (no charge for postage even) samples 5 X 3 1/2 " plenty big enough to make a windscreen just get a short piece of elastic and you can make a cheap or free windscreen.

I plan to make a long-haired version of the Sony eventually, and I have some long fur sitting around here from previous experiments that I will use. It would be nice to get Sony's version also, for not too much additional cost - assuming they offer that. Even though their fur is short it's useful for light breezes (if the AD-PCM1 is any indication).

[Ozpeter]

The "P" version appears to be coming to Australia, unlike the plain version - and no doubt they will be jacking up the price due to the colour change and windshield.  Might resort to eBay for the non-pro version at a sensible price.

[tekdroid]

ozpeter,
Yeah I've actually been this close to ordering the non-P. I guess I was waiting to see if B&H will be offering the P version at a reasonable cost, much like they are bundling the PCM-D50 with the AD-PCM1 for a good price, all things considered. I'm starting to think it probably won't happen before Christmas, if at all.

I'm very tempted...

[tardis71]

Whoooo! my M10 came today! I'm really looking forward to recording with this bad boy!
Just playing around with it...I don't think anyone should worry about the record dial moving while in a pocket or something. It's pretty stiff! (that's what she said) Normal brushing up against it doesn't move it at all. You really have to try and turn it to get any movement. I'm not worried at all.
 

[colargol]

Hi!

Can anyone recommend any good micro-sd cards to go with this unit?
I have used sandisk Ultra II sd cards for the r09hr, but those don't seem to be available as micro sd...
Thanks!

-c

[Flashmd]

To All,

Finally received the little rascal PCM-M10. Now this recorder is as practical as expected...small enough to avoid ripping my jean pocket as the D50 has nearly done. Don,t need to dress it up with a hat like my D50 to keep the slightest wind from wrecking a sound performance.

The internals are very flat and render a lower noise floor by an estimated 6db if not more, compared to the D50. And of course, all the other additional features lacking with it's older sibling.

Now sure there are a few things not welcome, but that maybe biased due to my being used to the D50. Such as the horizontal row of option switches. They are a bit close together... so one must be careful during selection. Something has to give somewhere in design, to keep the size down.

I could say more but like describing a new movie to a curious friend, best save some action seens for your own excitement, to enjoy.

I will add this one little detail not brought up much in these forums...it is much easier to remove memory card despite it's Micro specification, compared to the quirky placement on the D50. Okay nuff said...........Merry Xmas coming.

Gordon

[Flashmd]

Hi!

Can anyone recommend any good micro-sd cards to go with this unit?
I have used sandisk Ultra II sd cards for the r09hr, but those don't seem to be available as micro sd...
Thanks!

-c

To concerned,

Just from my breif experience with M10 the last couple of days.. the SanDisk Micro SDHC Model SDSDQB-4096-AW11, purchased at Walmart, has performed well with no problems. I also borrowed my son's Sony 4GB Micor for his PSP...of course works fine too.

Gordon

[mloewen]

I got a sandisc 8 gig from VIDEOGAMECIB.COM on ebay 20.00 works great.

[tekdroid]

I have the hotness in my mitts.

I wanted to write so much, but I think I might spare you all for now (sort of). Needless to say, this is a FANTASTIC unit. Definitely one of the better ways to spend USD $300.

Already it's quite easy to just forget about picking up the PCM-D50 and going with this. I'm loving the more 'Walkman' feel a smaller unit gives more than anything else.

I love the Key Control feature for changing the key of your audio. Useful and fun. I love the Bass enhancement feature for getting more oomph from those tiny capsules people put in their ears. I love that they are aiming this device more at the hungry masses. Both Bass enhancement and Key Control can be heard in real-time simply by selecting the option you want in their menus while a track is playing, before having to commit to any changes. Nice.

It's as if the PCM-D1 / PCM-D50 got together with MiniDisc/HI-MD and some old-school Walkman. That's what it feels like to me. This means good.

Model selling in USA comes with NO CARRYING POUCH but comes with an AC Adaptor and carry strap (the online manual is slightly different to the printed manual). Languages you can choose from are also limited to English, Spanish and French with this model (again the printed manual is correct and different to the online manual).

Rec Remain time appears permanently on the main screen now without having to press DISPLAY to find it. Great enhancement!

Slightly more text can fit on the screen at one time on the PCM-M10. Little changes here and there. Detail Menu really reminds me of MD/Hi-MD more Advanced menu. A melting-pot of influences.

Ergonomics: great. Buttons under the LCD are hard to accidentally press. They are shaped well for thumbs (concave and angled). Delete key recessed, aiding usability in less-than-optimal conditions. Raised dots on Volume and MIC input locations. Good ergonomics. The unit itself is very easy to hold and handle one-handed. Remote is pretty basic but has a long cord and is only useful for recording / track marking, not playback. PCM-M10 turns on with the backlight on (and then turns off after 10 seconds by default), much like a mobile phone and unlike the PCM-D50 (which required you to press the LIGHT button when you wanted it and always powers-on without the light).

Recordings are good. Mics are good. Different, but good.
Right now my PCM-D50 and PCM-M10 are having a nice chat about life in China.

There are some comments about the (extremely) tacky silver paint on this unit (it isn't metal), but I might leave that for another day of whinging.

In the meantime I'll leave you with some of the thinking behind the development of the PCM-D1, ancestor to this fine PCM-M10:
http://www.sony.net/Fun/design/activity/product/pcm-d1_01.html

We mustn't forget where we came from.

[gearscout]

Well, I was in Berlin for the anniversary of the Fall of the Wall and my PCM-D50 went missing.  It was the night of MTV's Euro Music Awards.  Just gone out of my bag.  The Sennheiser shotgun was still there.  I don't even care to think whether it was nicked or (gasp!) I dropped it silently to the floor somewhere in the little black soft pouch where I always stored it.

Now, I'm confronted with either replacing that one...or maybe shifting to the M10.  I already have the Zoom H2 and the Olympus LS-10.  I'm using the Olympus now for most of my work. 

I so LOVE the PCM-D50.  But from what I read on this thread, the M10 has some very attractive attributes of its own.

[illconditioned]

Well, I was in Berlin for the anniversary of the Fall of the Wall and my PCM-D50 went missing.  It was the night of MTV's Euro Music Awards.  Just gone out of my bag.  The Sennheiser shotgun was still there.  I don't even care to think whether it was nicked or (gasp!) I dropped it silently to the floor somewhere in the little black soft pouch where I always stored it.

Now, I'm confronted with either replacing that one...or maybe shifting to the M10.  I already have the Zoom H2 and the Olympus LS-10.  I'm using the Olympus now for most of my work. 

I so LOVE the PCM-D50.  But from what I read on this thread, the M10 has some very attractive attributes of its own.

If you don't need digital in, I would go for the M10.

Much smaller and still great sound.  I also prefer the mics on the M10 to the D50.  They are omni, but the sound is much more natural, at least to me.  I wouldn't use built in mics for concert recording, but capturing acoustic music, street performers, interviews, or ambient sounds, they are quite good.  I've also experimented making a small baffle for the M10.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I love the power save mode of the sony.  You can leave them on all the time (in lock mode) and the batteries last forever.  If you need to be ready sooner, you can even leave in pause-record mode.  The batteries will hold that for 12hrs or more easily, so "full day" recording is quite convenient.

  Richard

[tekdroid]

I so LOVE the PCM-D50.  But from what I read on this thread, the M10 has some very attractive attributes of its own.

Sorry to hear about your PCM-D50
By far, the build on the PCM-D50 is so much better than the PCM-M10. The PCM-M10 just has a metal face, the rest is plastic with a capital P. Not that I mind, but Sony should re-consider using silver paint to simulate metal on a device in its pro line-up (of all things). The whole perimeter of the device won't hold up to wear and tear gracefully. The POWER/HOLD switch and REC LEVEL knob are all-plastic coated in silver paint

To their credit, the knob has more useful ridges for more grip, but is smaller to offset the ease of that, somewhat - but still feels good and will be really difficult to accidentally move, as others have mentioned.

If we open the memory card door we can see the plastic underside is really grey. Would it have killed them to just leave it uncoated grey? Or offer plastic in any other colour (white, red, brown, green, blue, orange, whatever) except silver? I look at the PCM-D50's quality lustrous metal and then look at the PCM-M10 and can't help but being reminded of the cheapest toy. I don't mind plastic at all, but painting it silver... ugh. The size of the device is really welcome, though. Can't be stressed enough. In fact the main things for me are:

* dedicated FOLDER, MENU and DELETE buttons
* track-marking (far more flexible than mandatory slicing and dicing of files with DIVIDE. Divide can be performed on every track mark if you wish, too.
* size
* display showing recording time remaining permanently on the main screen (love it)
* Key Control (you can give your voice a sex change with this thing too, which is fun)
* Protect feature
* remote
* in-built speaker (tiny but does the job)
* bass enhancement is something that pretty much says "yes, go forth and use it as a Walkman, Joe Customer".

MiniDisc may not be dead, but this is the closest thing to killing it (recent price cuts pretty much tell me it may be the end of the road, too). The lack of drive mechanism and the rest must make devices like this a lot more lucrative to make, too (same can be said for their video cameras).

LCF and Limiter both work well. External mic, you get offered the choice of Plug-In Power or not. All familiar stuff. You will love the size of this unit.

Display
I prefer text display on the PCM-M10. For example, if "decision" is written on the display, on the PCM-D50 every letter is evenly-spaced regardless of letter width. One the PCM-M10, letters like "i" don't have huge gaps between them and other letters. It's more pleasing to read.

headphone output
The headphone output on this unit is noticeably less loud than the PCM-D50, but that only matters if you like to listen loud and/or are using high-impedance/low-sensitivity headphones. I prefer the meat in the PCM-D50 here, but the PCM-M10 is not bad by any means.

Sonically it's a very fine recorder! I'd have no problems substituting this unit for the PCM-D50 at all. But I do prefer the movable mics in the PCM-D50, though.

MP3, AAC
There are other small differences in-use, but they are mostly minor interface things I won't mention. I don't record in MP3 but that's new. An AAC file I tried in it didn't work (they say not all encoders are supported, but this AAC file worked fine in the PSP...). Anyway, those are some things people will find useful but they are essentially nice bonuses to me, not much else.

The main points to take home versus the PCM-D50:
* build quality nothing like it (The PCM-D50 is so well-built, it would be hard to match many devices against it. I regard it as nothing less than a Sony classic)
* sounds great
* faux silver
* no optical digital in or out
* small (extremely good)
* MicroSD (!)
* useful remote for recording

Sony simply deserve the business this round. Thank god the competition made them move their butts (finally) to offer something like this. They deserve to be rewarded and I hope they sell bucketloads - but I hope the tacky silver paint stays on.

I would hate to be their competition selling at this price point (or indeed MiniDisc)