Topic: dream taping opportunity, don't let me balls it up

[yousef]

One of my favourite artists is doing a series of gigs over the coming year in a tiny (150-200 capacity) venue.

He's said I can record audio and video with a view to putting together a limited fanclub-type DVD/CD. So... With the following equipment available, what are people's thoughts on the best way to set-up and pitfalls to avoid:

2x DPA4060
Sony D8
Iriver H320
small Spirit Folio-style mixer
2x miniDV cams (possibly 3)

I was thinking:

-separate audience and soundboard recordings to be matrixed later
-one camera mobile(ish) front and side of stage with a second one static at the rear of the room. With one camera running a good five minutes ahead of the other to minimize losses at tape-flip time

But is this the best way to do it? And what can I be doing to minimize nightmares when putting it all together? Where to put the mics? Will the lighting require any special consideration?

There should be up to 12 opportunities to get this right but I'd like the benefit of TS.com wisdom from the start...

Any thoughts?

[gratefulphish]

Just some quick thoughts.  If you are going to do this, you want to get your hands on the best equipment possible.  Don't know where you are, or who else is nearby, but if you can get a better pre/AD or two, it will probably help the sound a lot.  If you are going to get a board patch, then I would be inclined to try to run the mics on stage or stage lip.  Don't know the room, or band make-up, or even style, but board and up close usually makes for a good mix.  You might want to try this set up in advance to see how things sound.  Some boards just plain suck, others are okay, but in  small clubs, they always have their limitations.

The cameras are another issue.  A lot depends on the camera quality, and its low light capability, white balance, etc. Have you ever shot music video with it?  Many times lights can wreak havoc on the white balance, and produce all sorts of bizarre effects, lines, rays, etc.  If you can, take the camera to the venue well in advance, and just try it out (with an explanation and permission of course.)  You probably want to be off-axis at the back of the room, depending on the lighting.  If the lights coming off the stage are high-powered, and going directly into the lens, you are not going to like what you see.  Try different angles, from the center to the corners, to see what will minimize this issue.  Adjust your exposure level as necessary to balance between the evils of too little light, and total washout.

Everything can eventually be put together in post production.  Not having timecode will make it a little more labor intensive, but many many DVDs have been made this way in the past.  Good luck.  But I would definitely try to do your homework first.

[yousef]

Thank you - there's plenty of food for thought there. The stuff about cameras and lighting is particularly appreciated; short of setting up a tripod at the side of the stage on a couple of occasions, this is something I have no experience of.

No doubt I'll be asking more (and increasingly panicked) questions as the gigs approach.

Cheers.

[Chanher]

we ran three cams at the Greeley Independence Stampede free stage. The 5 min. offset for tape swaps is necessary. Make sure your mobile cam operater knows when the static is making the swap. We had a couple tape swaps where there is 5-10 seconds of crappy footage from all three cams, the mobiles where taking "a break" of some sort (wobbly dizzying footage) and the static was obviously not recording.

gratefulphish makes some good points about audience location. When I'm gonna mix a board in, I always check first to see if some sort of stage lip recording is possible. Drums / amps in a natural soundstage are awesome, especially when mixed with a board. Is this rock? Acoustic stuff?

If you have 12 tries to get it right, then you should be golden.

[ShawnF]

These are all good suggestions.  I think getting both (or all three, if you get the third) cameras white-balanced (or maybe check out the "warm" light blue card thing--this often makes for better skin tones than pure white balance, in my admittedly limited experience) before showtime, in whatever the light on stage is going to be during the show, would be good, too, so that the color is closer to being uniform between the different cameras.  You could fix this for each video source in post, but it will be much easier and faster to have it right at the outset if possible.

[firmdragon]

tell us who the band is and get fellow TS.com'ers to help with multicams 

[Josh P]

tell us who the band is and get fellow TS.com'ers to help with multicams 

agreed.  I'd definitely find the best equipment possible.  And fellow ts'ers are the best place to start 

[phatDats4u]

Northeast multicam'r reporting

[wbrisette]

I would also highly recommend seeing if you can borrow or rent a multichannel recorder. I would start with the Sound Devices 744T since they are more common and see what you find. If you can't find one of those, see what other devices people have. Personally I would hate to have to first try to sync both sources up, then try to sync that with the video. If you can do it, try at the very lest to get the audio sources all running off the same the PLL clock circuit. The 744T is the lowest entry point to do this (or two 722 ganged together). It may turn out you can't borrow gear, in which case you might consider calling some of the audio/video rental places and see about renting one. A 744T shouldn't be that expensive for a single night (just make sure you know how to use it before the show!). Then the only thing you have to worry about later is syncing those tracks up to the video.

Maybe it's just the perfectionist in me, because I've worked on some video projects and none of them use timecode, but if it was my video, I'd also rent a camera with timecode that way you can jam timecode before the set and everybody is on the same page. Later in post things sync up wonderfully. However, be very careful when using time code and going past midnight. If your show is going to span two days, roll back 12 hours before shooting. That is, pretend it's noon and not midnight when using TOD (Time of Day) otherwise most post production products get very confused when the date changes.

Wayne

[yousef]

Wow - thanks for all this excellent information - much of which I'm sure would never have occured to me: the timecode and midnight issue, for example.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be deliberately mysterious - the artist is Pete Wylie (he of the Mighty Wah) and the gigs will be in Liverpool, UK. I think the format is going to be a mixture of Wylie + band, solo acoustic and stuff with a different special guest each month.

The guy who owns all the video equipment (some of which, I think, might be quite high-end) only wants to record one show... But I'm hoping to convince him to do a run - it's just too good an opportunity to experiment (and, of course, learn from the inevitable cock-ups).

I'm keeping notes on everthing that's been recommended and will certainly look into hiring some gear in - not so sure how easy or cheap that will be over here but off to Google I go.

Thanks again everyone.

[gratefulphish]

An Edirol R-4 Pro also can do the four channels simultaneously, and has timecode built in, so it can be connected to the camera and synced up.