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Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: Charlie Miller on December 17, 2017, 03:57:46 PM

Title: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: Charlie Miller on December 17, 2017, 03:57:46 PM
I ran two pairs of AKG CK1's last night and they sound very different. This is DJ Williams Shots Fired at Winston's. It's lacking vocals since it's a stage tape, but I was testing mics and didn't care about the vox. I'm buying James Bartoli's mics and wanted to test them first. I have 460's with black CK1's and 452's with silver CK1's. Both pair were on stage ORTF and sound great, but one pair is lacking on the low end. I'm hoping you that someone else can listen to them and see what they think.

They're poly wav files (4 channels 24/96). I switched the pre amps at set break for comparison.

Set 1:
inputs 1 + 2 = CK1 (silver) > actives > 744
inputs 3 + 4 = 460/CK1 (black) > V2 > 744

Set 2:
inputs 1 + 2 = 460/CK1 (black) > 744
inputs 3 + 4 = CK1 (silver) > actives > V2 > 744

I still need to test the silvers on the 460's. Will do that one next. My plan is to run the 460/CK8's at MSG with my MK4's, but want to make sure the 460 bodies are good. The last pair I tested was unable to keep a capsule powered for the complete show so I'm trying another pair he has.

Here is the link. thanks for taking the time to review
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1B1FUeCqBUU2B3c8Yi9D7sKaN3XQnnqnU (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1B1FUeCqBUU2B3c8Yi9D7sKaN3XQnnqnU)


Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: jcable77 on December 18, 2017, 10:40:32 PM
Didn't get a chance to listen, as Im at work but have made a change to running 460/480 bodies a lot lately beacause Ive found the actives have no "balls" as one friend described it. Im not sure if the actives are the ones your noticing not bringing lows but if so Ive noticed the same with my 61>actives.
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: Charlie Miller on December 19, 2017, 12:10:52 AM
Didn't get a chance to listen, as Im at work but have made a change to running 460/480 bodies a lot lately beacause Ive found the actives have no "balls" as one friend described it. Im not sure if the actives are the ones your noticing not bringing lows but if so Ive noticed the same with my 61>actives.

Actually, the actives were the ones with the 'lows'.
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: jcable77 on December 19, 2017, 01:14:19 AM
Well than my statement isnt much help. I have had a bunch of issues with finding the right bodies as well. Couple too low of an output, signal fading, popping. Its been a challenge but things are coming around finally and im pretty happy with the results. Ill take a listen in the morning and see if i can help out with any useful feedback.
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: Charlie Miller on December 19, 2017, 01:19:53 AM
Well than my statement isnt much help. I have had a bunch of issues with finding the right bodies as well. Couple too low of an output, signal fading, popping. Its been a challenge but things are coming around finally and im pretty happy with the results. Ill take a listen in the morning and see if i can help out with any useful feedback.

I'm gonna borrow friends bodies to use with the CK8's I bought, till I can afford new 480's. I'm starting to notice that these mics are not good to buy used. I have a matched pair of schoeps which spoiled me.
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: jcable77 on December 19, 2017, 01:36:49 AM
Yeah, that's a whole different ballgame with your shoeps. Ive had some matched pairs of lower tier mics and got used to setting levels at pretty much a similar spot on a pre-amp. Then I started messing with then akg's and started getting like What the!?!? I started using the actives and it made things a lot closer, but for a while trying to find something close with used second hand 460 and 480 bodies was kind of a nightmare. The things were all over the place. Im definitely psyched to be getting some decent 480's next week myself from a friend as well. I borrowed a pair for a bit and fell in love. I love the 460's but there a little on the tubby side where the 480's are pretty much exactly what I like listening to. Crisp and bright with a sweet plump under carriage.
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: jcable77 on December 19, 2017, 01:39:13 AM
Also I have ck8's with A60's if you don't have your own and ever needed to use them out here. There pretty much mint and I could probly send em with Andy to MSG if you needed? You wouldn't have to fly with em.
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: Charlie Miller on December 19, 2017, 11:35:49 AM
Also I have ck8's with A60's if you don't have your own and ever needed to use them out here. There pretty much mint and I could probly send em with Andy to MSG if you needed? You wouldn't have to fly with em.

That really cool of you but I may end up sending back a bunch of cash instead of the mics :)

I’m thinking I need to buy a new pair of 480’s at some point.
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: MBHOTAPER on December 19, 2017, 01:49:36 PM
Does anyone have a contact for akg repair\service for Charlie? Rematching of mics within a certain standard deviation or range should be a common problem they've encountered. I'm sure they would charge you but they should repair them right? I'm a little spoiled with mbhos lifetime warranty - had my cards sent in after 16 years use no questions asked and no charge. Took 2 months to get them back from Europe though (hand made caps).
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: illconditioned on December 19, 2017, 02:30:29 PM
Is it possible that there are two different types of CK1 out there?
One kind is an electret capsule, for use with the "active" cable.  Ck1x
There other type is an externally polarized, ck1 capsule.

Not sure if this is your problem, but it may explain some problems you're having putting capsules on various mics,

Also note that only the 460 capsules work with the active cable ck1x.  CK1x won't work with 480's.

Good luck.



Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: Charlie Miller on December 19, 2017, 03:05:03 PM
Is it possible that there are two different types of CK1 out there?
One kind is an electret capsule, for use with the "active" cable.  Ck1x
There other type is an externally polarized, ck1 capsule.

Not sure if this is your problem, but it may explain some problems you're having putting capsules on various mics,

Also note that only the 460 capsules work with the active cable ck1x.  CK1x won't work with 480's.

Good luck.





They say CK1
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: kindms on December 19, 2017, 03:10:06 PM
ok dumb question but the roll off isnt set on the bodies by chance is it ?

Are they the bodies with the selector switches ?
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: Charlie Miller on December 19, 2017, 03:23:47 PM
ok dumb question but the roll off isnt set on the bodies by chance is it ?

Are they the bodies with the selector switches ?

Funny thing is they sound like the switch is on but it's not.

And there are no dumb questions, just dumb people :)
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: rigpimp on December 19, 2017, 03:39:43 PM
Before I bought my first pair of SDC mics I knew I really liked the 140's and the CCM4 but the 480's and 414's just never made me tingle the way that other mics did.  Needless to say that I ran 140's for over 10 years and am now all Schoeps, including the CCM4's.
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: obaaron on December 19, 2017, 04:02:55 PM
Is it possible that there are two different types of CK1 out there?
One kind is an electret capsule, for use with the "active" cable.  Ck1x
There other type is an externally polarized, ck1 capsule.

Not sure if this is your problem, but it may explain some problems you're having putting capsules on various mics,

Also note that only the 460 capsules work with the active cable ck1x.  CK1x won't work with 480's.

Good luck.

He was using my Naiant actives/pfa.......works great with all if akg caps
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: illconditioned on December 19, 2017, 04:17:04 PM
Is it possible that there are two different types of CK1 out there?
One kind is an electret capsule, for use with the "active" cable.  Ck1x
There other type is an externally polarized, ck1 capsule.

Not sure if this is your problem, but it may explain some problems you're having putting capsules on various mics,

Also note that only the 460 capsules work with the active cable ck1x.  CK1x won't work with 480's.

Good luck.

He was using my Naiant actives/pfa.......works great with all if akg caps

OK, is it ck1 > a60 reducer ring > Naiant active then?

Need to make sure the center pin connects OK.  I guess it should be OK because the ck1 + reducer ring were designed for 460/480 bodies...

BTW I've got Naiant actives with CK63 caps.  The work great for me.
Have not tried the other actives.

  Richard

PS: If anyone has reducer rings and/or CK61 caps, I'm still looking to build my "collection".   Thanks...
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: kindms on December 19, 2017, 04:22:52 PM
Is it possible that there are two different types of CK1 out there?
One kind is an electret capsule, for use with the "active" cable.  Ck1x
There other type is an externally polarized, ck1 capsule.

Not sure if this is your problem, but it may explain some problems you're having putting capsules on various mics,

Also note that only the 460 capsules work with the active cable ck1x.  CK1x won't work with 480's.

Good luck.

He was using my Naiant actives/pfa.......works great with all if akg caps

OK, is it ck1 > a60 reducer ring > Naiant active then?

Need to make sure the center pin connects OK.  I guess it should be OK because the ck1 + reducer ring were designed for 460/480 bodies...

BTW I've got Naiant actives with CK63 caps.  The work great for me.
Have not tried the other actives.

  Richard

PS: If anyone has reducer rings and/or CK61 caps, I'm still looking to build my "collection".   Thanks...

we have run that combo many times. The reducers work fine with the PFAs ck1,ck22, ck8 have all been run with them in our rig.
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: jcable77 on December 19, 2017, 04:33:18 PM
Does anyone have a contact for akg repair\service for Charlie? Rematching of mics within a certain standard deviation or range should be a common problem they've encountered. I'm sure they would charge you but they should repair them right? I'm a little spoiled with mbhos lifetime warranty - had my cards sent in after 16 years use no questions asked and no charge. Took 2 months to get them back from Europe though (hand made caps).
Rich Lands at Lands Audio is the US AKG guy. Not sure if thats what he needs though.
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: Charlie Miller on December 19, 2017, 04:48:33 PM
I hate these fucking rings. I forgot all about them. Maybe I can find a new pair of rings.
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: Charlie Miller on December 19, 2017, 04:55:02 PM
Does anyone have a contact for akg repair\service for Charlie? Rematching of mics within a certain standard deviation or range should be a common problem they've encountered. I'm sure they would charge you but they should repair them right? I'm a little spoiled with mbhos lifetime warranty - had my cards sent in after 16 years use no questions asked and no charge. Took 2 months to get them back from Europe though (hand made caps).
Rich Lands at Lands Audio is the US AKG guy. Not sure if thats what he needs though.

on the phone w him now. thanks
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: Charlie Miller on December 19, 2017, 05:23:19 PM
Sending the mics off to Rich Lands and he's gonna figure it all out for me.
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: obaaron on December 19, 2017, 06:56:55 PM
Followinbob sells.tue reducers new...mKes them hit him.up
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: Justy Gyee on December 19, 2017, 08:35:14 PM
Sending the mics off to Rich Lands and he's gonna figure it all out for me.
For a steep fee.
I thought this board had found a better repair place than richard?
I know someone who paid a fortune for him to not be able to remove and replace a bad part. Good luck
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: Charlie Miller on December 19, 2017, 09:49:38 PM
yeah, after looking at the fees, it's gonna cost more than the mics, so I'm going a different route.

speaking of which, this looks really nice. I can use my CK8's with it too.

http://www.akg.com/Microphones/Drum%20Microphone%20Bundles/C451BMatPair.html?dwvar_C451BMatPair_color=Nickel-GLOBAL-Current#utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=retargeting&utm_campaign=cx14rebate&start=1 (http://www.akg.com/Microphones/Drum%20Microphone%20Bundles/C451BMatPair.html?dwvar_C451BMatPair_color=Nickel-GLOBAL-Current#utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=retargeting&utm_campaign=cx14rebate&start=1)
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: obaaron on December 19, 2017, 10:06:54 PM
yeah, after looking at the fees, it's gonna cost more than the mics, so I'm going a different route.

speaking of which, this looks really nice. I can use my CK8's with it too.

http://www.akg.com/Microphones/Drum%20Microphone%20Bundles/C451BMatPair.html?dwvar_C451BMatPair_color=Nickel-GLOBAL-Current#utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=retargeting&utm_campaign=cx14rebate&start=1 (http://www.akg.com/Microphones/Drum%20Microphone%20Bundles/C451BMatPair.html?dwvar_C451BMatPair_color=Nickel-GLOBAL-Current#utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=retargeting&utm_campaign=cx14rebate&start=1)

These are fixed capsule I believe
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: Jamos on December 19, 2017, 10:46:54 PM
The newer 451B is definitely a different mic than the old 451/CK1.  Many engineers really find the vintage CK1 sound more pleasant (when in good shape, of course).

Richard Land isn't super cheap, but he will get your gear in "like-new" condition, and was the AKG "official" repair option.  Not sure if that's still the case or not.
I love AKG gear, but I will agree that some of the older stuff is starting to deteriorate and needs attention/repair. Once it gets worked on, it should be good for another 20 years or so.


yeah, after looking at the fees, it's gonna cost more than the mics, so I'm going a different route.

speaking of which, this looks really nice. I can use my CK8's with it too.

http://www.akg.com/Microphones/Drum%20Microphone%20Bundles/C451BMatPair.html?dwvar_C451BMatPair_color=Nickel-GLOBAL-Current#utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=retargeting&utm_campaign=cx14rebate&start=1 (http://www.akg.com/Microphones/Drum%20Microphone%20Bundles/C451BMatPair.html?dwvar_C451BMatPair_color=Nickel-GLOBAL-Current#utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=retargeting&utm_campaign=cx14rebate&start=1)
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: Charlie Miller on December 19, 2017, 11:46:09 PM
I really see a new pair of 480’s in my future
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: illconditioned on December 19, 2017, 11:53:48 PM
Anyone running the longer CK9 capsules.  These are really cheap on Ebay right now,

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AKG-CK9-Boom-Microphone-For-C451e/152496838640?hash=item23818517f0:g:qlAAAOSwc-tY4tog

Note: the 451 mic body seems to insert into them.
There is a CK1 capsule buried in there.
May not work with 460/480 + reducer caps.

Would be great if you already had a set of 451 bodies though...


Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: Charlie Miller on December 20, 2017, 01:26:35 AM
Anyone running the longer CK9 capsules.  These are really cheap on Ebay right now,

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AKG-CK9-Boom-Microphone-For-C451e/152496838640?hash=item23818517f0:g:qlAAAOSwc-tY4tog

Note: the 451 mic body seems to insert into them.
There is a CK1 capsule buried in there.
May not work with 460/480 + reducer caps.

Would be great if you already had a set of 451 bodies though...




I have 452’s that I’m testing too
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: audBall on December 20, 2017, 11:00:48 AM
I really see a new pair of 480’s in my future

I get the feeling you may want to act sooner than later with the Austrian factory closure earlier this year.

Edit - I just checked AKG's website and the 480 preamplifiers (amongst other mics) are on back order until 2/4/18. The CK6x capsules are in stock, though.
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: Charlie Miller on December 20, 2017, 12:54:44 PM
Just got a call from AKG. They're going to fix everything for a more reasonable price. Plus they're local (San Diego).
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: jcable77 on December 20, 2017, 01:09:15 PM
Would you happen to have a contact for them Charlie? Would like to try and work around using Lands. As it is I need to ask him to send my mics back to me.
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: Charlie Miller on December 20, 2017, 02:05:52 PM
service.us@akg.com
818-895-3377
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: jcable77 on December 20, 2017, 07:26:14 PM
Thanks
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: jmitchell on December 21, 2017, 12:49:22 PM
service.us@akg.com
818-895-3377

Thanks!!
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: Charlie Miller on December 22, 2017, 04:47:35 PM
@obaaron brought his 460/ck1's and we did some tests. We swapped caps and discovered that it's one of the caps that's bad. When I used his caps on my bodies it came out great. The issue followed the caps. That I can deal with, it's easy to find caps. So I now have a working pair of 460/ck8's.

see you at the garden!!
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: MBHOTAPER on December 22, 2017, 06:58:16 PM
Just got a call from AKG. They're going to fix everything for a more reasonable price. Plus they're local (San Diego).
"Rich Lands at Lands Audio is the US AKG guy. Not sure if thats what he needs though."
Why is lands so much more expensive?
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: Charlie Miller on December 22, 2017, 07:21:32 PM
Just got a call from AKG. They're going to fix everything for a more reasonable price. Plus they're local (San Diego).
"Rich Lands at Lands Audio is the US AKG guy. Not sure if thats what he needs though."
Why is lands so much more expensive?

supply and demand
or
you get what you pay for
???
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: spyder9 on December 22, 2017, 08:41:46 PM
I really see a new pair of 480’s in my future

Don't.  They're transformerless.  The ck1's are at their best with the 460's.  Trust me.  I've run the 460/ck1 combo for years...... 
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: Charlie Miller on December 22, 2017, 09:34:24 PM
I really see a new pair of 480’s in my future

Don't.  They're transformerless.  The ck1's are at their best with the 460's.  Trust me.  I've run the 460/ck1 combo for years...... 

The 460's are working so I'm buying them.
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: kindms on December 23, 2017, 05:34:54 PM
I really see a new pair of 480’s in my future

Don't.  They're transformerless.  The ck1's are at their best with the 460's.  Trust me.  I've run the 460/ck1 combo for years...... 

The 460's are working so I'm buying them.

my m46 and ck1xs are in the YS if there is interest.
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: Charlie Miller on December 23, 2017, 07:28:30 PM
I really see a new pair of 480’s in my future

Don't.  They're transformerless.  The ck1's are at their best with the 460's.  Trust me.  I've run the 460/ck1 combo for years...... 

The 460's are working so I'm buying them.

my m46 and ck1xs are in the YS if there is interest.

what is a ck1xs?
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: ts on December 24, 2017, 07:28:02 AM
I really see a new pair of 480’s in my future

Don't.  They're transformerless.  The ck1's are at their best with the 460's.  Trust me.  I've run the 460/ck1 combo for years...... 

The 460's are working so I'm buying them.

my m46 and ck1xs are in the YS if there is interest.

what is a ck1xs?

The CK1x, 2x, 3x are electret caps designed to be used only with the MK46 extension cable or active cable if you want to call it that. The MK46 cable works with 460 bodies only. The CK1x caps are not the same as CK1 caps.

Edit to add: I now see you may be asking what a CK1xs cap is. No such thing. I think he is just referring to a pair.
Title: Re: AKG CK1's sound test
Post by: Charlie Miller on December 24, 2017, 01:55:12 PM
I really see a new pair of 480’s in my future

Don't.  They're transformerless.  The ck1's are at their best with the 460's.  Trust me.  I've run the 460/ck1 combo for years...... 

The 460's are working so I'm buying them.

my m46 and ck1xs are in the YS if there is interest.

what is a ck1xs?

The CK1x, 2x, 3x are electret caps designed to be used only with the MK46 extension cable or active cable if you want to call it that. The MK46 cable works with 460 bodies only. The CK1x caps are not the same as CK1 caps.

Edit to add: I now see you may be asking what a CK1xs cap is. No such thing. I think he is just referring to a pair.

got it.