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Gear / Technical Help => Battery Boxes, Preamps, Mixers, ADCs, and Processors => Topic started by: blu666z on April 03, 2003, 04:00:31 PM
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This may be a very newbie question but you have to learn sometime. I run my mics into my battery box(levels, rolloff) and then onto my minidisc. How much would I benefit from an A/D and then on to the optical in on my MD?
-Kevin
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you would benefit more by upgrading from your md
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I have thought about it but don't think the quality difference is worth it and I just spent $200 or so on a deck so I can do my own conversions. Hate to waste that. Th only thing that is a pain is the flip and I have only had a problem with that one time during a moe. show. They just wouldn't stop!!
-Kevin
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well kevin, heres the thing, the quality that you would be getting out of an outboard a/d will be negated by the atrac compression of the md. you are going to be losing a lot of the benefit you might otherwise get. if i was gonna spend 200 bucks or so on upgrading my rig id first work on mics, then deck, then pre and a/d though some will flip the last part of that around... if i was in your shoes i wouldnt see the extra cash as justifiable.
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if i was gonna spend 200 bucks or so on upgrading my rig id first work on mics, then deck, then pre and a/d
IMO, this is good advice. I agree.
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well kevin, heres the thing, the quality that you would be getting out of an outboard a/d will be negated by the atrac compression of the md. you are going to be losing a lot of the benefit you might otherwise get
Exactly what I was trying to find out. Thanks a lot.
-Kevin
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well kevin, heres the thing, the quality that you would be getting out of an outboard a/d will be negated by the atrac compression of the md.
Nope. Not even. The quality from an outboard a/d will be negated ONLY as much as the mic signal going into the recorder's onboard a/d would be because of the compression inherent in the writing of the data. ATRAC is ATRAC - if the signal coming in is better, then the ATRACed version of it will be just a compressed version of the better signal.
you are going to be losing a lot of the benefit you might otherwise get.
This is debatable. You could say the same thing about any kind of signal being compressed.
if i was gonna spend 200 bucks or so on upgrading my rig id first work on mics, then deck, then pre and a/d though some will flip the last part of that around...
I flipped it around. ;)
It IS too bad that you dropped $200 on a home deck. What did you buy? My JE520 was $165 a year ago.
Armen
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you would benefit more by upgrading from your md
I don't agree at all. I used to run AT853 > batt box > MD. I then bought a Zefiro Inbox. Made a HUGE difference in quality of recording. No matter where I played my test recordings and later show recordings, the Inbox improved the sound of the rig by about 300%. Seriously.
I ended up buying a NJB3 and running AT853> batt box > inbox > NJB3, and didn't notice a whole hell of a lot of difference until I A/B'd recordings on my $10k home hifi. The differences are there, but you have to have the playback rig to hear them.
I surmise that with the equipment I run now, MD would end up being more of a bottleneck... But it's nowhere near the bottleneck everyone seems to think, especially when starting out with a modest rig. ATRAC compression got a whole hell of a lot better from the first MD units (I've owned 4 different iterations, the newer the better in general).
IMO for sure blu66z would benefit from a mic pre/a to d upgrade. Way more than buying a DAT, IMO
That being said, I wouldn't come close to a MD with a 10 foot pole nowadays; not with the NJB3 out for under $300
Flame suit on :)
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again, for so many reasons, we NEED that Hall Of Fame Forum, Bri...
this one is a classic in the making... ;)
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hey i stopped there :-)
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Yeah Kevin, I don't think anything in a beginner's price range will astonish you as much as the AD-20. I own one myself and would take it and my MZ-R700 over a plain portaDAT A/D any day. There was another relatively recent thread about this subject; I'll try to find it.
A
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+T to everybody for the good discussion.
-Kevin
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If you decide to go with pre/ADC before changing mics/deck and don't need to be stealth, it's tough to beat the performance/price point of the Edirol UA-5. I personally like it better than the AD-20.
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Again with the newbie Q's.....how do you power something like that?
-Kevin
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The ua-5 is very easily powered by rc car batteries. They are light, easy to charge, small, pretty much everything I would want if I had a ua-5. Now that said, I would certainly suggest that you get the oade mod's, as the stock ua-5 is not very conducive to high gain to say the least. Aldo, as said above, I would really reccomend fisrst getting a nomad and ditching the MD. You can easily recoup money through ebay on the MD, and your recordings are far superior. Armen and you should team up and citch the MD's and get the jukebox! ;) ;D
~~~D~~~
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Daryan,
I'm not totally sold on the JB3. I haven't seen 100% approval on it anywhere... and the skipping/glitches problems I hear about, plus the ass level meters and the fact that it's not a true pure wav (this is all what I've heard, by the way) makes me want to wait till I have the disposable cash for a nice little M1 + 7pin - and I'll be running my NEVER-FAIL MD as backup!!
A
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All the skips and whatnot you've heard all relate to the use of a CO2 or other Coax > Opti convertor... going straight opti to opti should cause no problem. You do have live monitoring on the jb3 so if all else fails with the levels you've got that. As for the pure wave, from what I know it's just as pure in wav format as anything else.
Jonny
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Ah, well then. ;) ;)
People been yappin' about "Microsoft wavs" as opposed to pure wavs...
Well, we'll see...
A
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Again with the newbie Q's.....how do you power something like that?
Check out the power section here:
http://www.geocities.com/bskalinder/tapersgear/ (http://www.geocities.com/bskalinder/tapersgear/)
If the audio gear we use can't be powered sufficiently (or at all) by rechargable batteries, the next best option is either an SLA or RC battery. There's a link in the above page to instructions for building an SLA or RC battery pack. These two options will work for almost any gear requiring external power.
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I run 2 9.6V RC car batteries to power my UA5. Special thanks for Nick Georges who told me how freeking easy it was to wire up. Works great, although I have no idea how long it lasts as the UA5 doesn't have a power meter. From general guesstimation, with 2 1600mah packs, I should get 6-8 hours. I have used it for 5 hours with no power loss. Seems to work great, and is very convienient.
A nice thing about the UA5 is the USB capability. I'm going to try some 24 bit recording to my laptop tonight, sure couldn't do that with the Zefiro.
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My mics are wired into a 1/8" stereo plug. The UA-5 doesn't have that type of input correct?
-Kevin
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Hey Kevin -- what mics are you running?
The UA-5 analog inputs are: XLR, 1/4", and RCA.
Without knowing exactly what mics you're using, my initial guess is if you're not using mics that require XLR mic cables that the greatest impact on improving sound quality will be to upgrade your mics before adding/upgrading pre/ADC/deck.
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Start at the top & work your way down for upgrades. Upgrade microphones first, then add a pre-amp ( AD-20 or Ua5) then upgrade from Mini disc to DAT. You will have yourself a very solid rig if you make the right choice on the microphones, in other words they make the most difference.
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My mics are wired into a 1/8" stereo plug. The UA-5 doesn't have that type of input correct?
I used to run a 1/8 mini-to-XLR adapter when I ran AT853 > Inbox. I got it from soundprofessionals... Worked great.
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Hmmm, very mixed opinions.
-Kevin
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And MINE is the right one!
;) ;)
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Good point, Kevin - and completely true.
The reality is, there's no hard and fast rule with taping: which gear to use, in what combinations, when, where, and how. We each share what we know from our own experiences, and obviously we've had different experiences.
If taping were a science and everyone could just plug all their gear in and make identical tapes, it would take all the fun out of it.
Best advice I can give is:
[1] Monitor the board and people's replies to get a feel for who consistently offers good advice.
[2] Take everyone's opinion with a grain of salt (especially anyone who claims hard and fast that one piece of gear or one configuration or one anything is unquestionably, unarguably THE way to go).
[3] Try out many options - buying different gear if you can afford it, borrowing gear, playing around at home or at shows - and decide what your ears like best and then stick with it (until you feel the urge to try something different!).
And if you ever have a chance to meet Armen in person, do what I would do - give the whippersnapper a swift smack upside the head! :o ;D
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I think I am probably gonna start watching prices on the UA-5. I will obviously need on sooner or later and if I don't have money for mics right now why not go ahead and get the A/D. Thanks for the all the help again.
-Kevin
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Good point, Kevin - and completely true.
The reality is, there's no hard and fast rule with taping: which gear to use, in what combinations, when, where, and how. We each share what we know from our own experiences, and obviously we've had different experiences.
If taping were a science and everyone could just plug all their gear in and make identical tapes, it would take all the fun out of it.
Best advice I can give is:
[1] Monitor the board and people's replies to get a feel for who consistently offers good advice.
[2] Take everyone's opinion with a grain of salt (especially anyone who claims hard and fast that one piece of gear or one configuration or one anything is unquestionably, unarguably THE way to go).
[3] Try out many options - buying different gear if you can afford it, borrowing gear, playing around at home or at shows - and decide what your ears like best and then stick with it (until you feel the urge to try something different!).
And if you ever have a chance to meet Armen in person, do what I would do - give the whippersnapper a swift smack upside the head! :o ;D
nice job, Bri #2 hehe...
seriously, excellent advice as always! +T for you.
-Armen, looks like you better watch your back brah! ;)
~S
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Be nice fellas!!!!!!! ;)
bean
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I WAS KIDDING
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sleep easy, w00k...
i think you're safe! ;)
~S
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I WAS KIDDING
Me, too, whippersnapper. :o ;D ;)
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i noticed the hint of sarcasism in that!!!!!! ;)
bean
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Haha, this is good shit... I know, Brian. ;D
As for the sarcasism, I don't know about that...
Armen
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Couple more questions and then I will let this die. What is a good price for a UA-5? I've seen them around $250 on Ebay...there is one right now with a 'Buy it now' of $220. Second question is about cables. Forgive my ignorance but will a cable work in both directions? For example, to go from my battery box to the UA-5, I need to 1/8" Female stereo to dual XLRs. The description of this actually says it the opposite way. Will it work?
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=250&item=SP-XLRM-MINI-2&type=store (http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=250&item=SP-XLRM-MINI-2&type=store)
-Kevin
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Yep.
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$250 is for a STOCK Ua5. The moded ones are about $500 new from Oade. Well worth it. I just sold a STock UA5 for $200. If you don't plan on running a laptop you will need the Mod UA5 from oade. You can't send a digital signal to the coax or optical out without running through the USB on the STOCK model. If you actually find a Mod UA5 for under $400 you have a hell of a deal
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Good thing to find out before I buy.
-Kevin
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A couple things to keep in mind, Kevin:
[1] The Oade Bros only mod UA-5s purchased directly from the Oade Bros. I think they charge $300 for the stock unit.
[2] See Ducati's post about the different mods offered by the Oade Bros. Mod 1 below is, I think, $75. So, $375 for stock + mod 1. You can then add Mod 2a or 2b if you like, but it is not required. Not sure of the pricing on Mod 2a/b.
Oade offers 2 levels of mods for the UA5:
1. Digi mod: this allows you to output a signal on the coax and optical outputs, as well as the USB (standard UA5 only allows output on USB).
2. Preamp mods: a mod to the preamp section of the unit that is supposed to increase performance significantly. When you buy the preamp mod unit, it includes the digi mod. Furthermore, Oade offers 2 preamp mods:
2a. warm mod aims to provide a huge soundstage, euphonic coloration, and sound as tubey as SS allows
2b. clarity mod aims to be as fast and accurate as possible.
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A couple things to keep in mind, Kevin:
[1] The Oade Bros only mod UA-5s purchased directly from the Oade Bros. I think they charge $300 for the stock unit.
[2] See Ducati's post about the different mods offered by the Oade Bros. Mod 1 below is, I think, $75. So, $375 for stock + mod 1. You can then add Mod 2a or 2b if you like, but it is not required. Not sure of the pricing on Mod 2a/b.
Oade offers 2 levels of mods for the UA5:
1. Digi mod: this allows you to output a signal on the coax and optical outputs, as well as the USB (standard UA5 only allows output on USB).
2. Preamp mods: a mod to the preamp section of the unit that is supposed to increase performance significantly. When you buy the preamp mod unit, it includes the digi mod. Furthermore, Oade offers 2 preamp mods:
2a. warm mod aims to provide a huge soundstage, euphonic coloration, and sound as tubey as SS allows
2b. clarity mod aims to be as fast and accurate as possible.
If I got the mod-1, would I be able to go back at a later time and add the rest of them?
-Kevin
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I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure if you got the UA5 + mod 1 (coax), you could send it back at a later date to have one of the preamp mods done.
If you're thinking about going down this road, give the Oade Bros a call to confirm this is true - they're good folks to speak with on the phone, very helpful.
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But I would, at the least, have to get the first mod to be able to use the optical out?
-Kevin
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yes, i believe that is a correct statement...... ;)
bean
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That is a true statement if you're talking about using the UA5 in "standalone mode" that is, not connected to a laptop.
If you're looking to go mics > UA5 > NJB3 or something, yes, you need the Oade digi mod.
Definitely give them a call, they're great people to deal with, IMO
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Yes, give them a call. I payed 375 for mine with the coax mod when I had mine...about 6 months ago now ;) Also, I STRONGLY reccomend the pre upgrade. I found the pre's in the ua-5, without mod, to be utter crap if you wanted to push the gain. They are probably fine for loud rock shows, but if you plan on taping anything quiet at all, the pre's are not up to the task. Consider both mods.
Daryan
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I'm with Daryan. The mods are only $125, might as well do it right the first time around... That was my justification, anyhow ;)