Topic: Schoeps MK41 or MK41V, what's the better choice?

[Cobiwan]

So as some of you may know, I'm looking to get a second pair of caps in the near future. I already have a pair of matched MK4s. I almost scored a pair of MK41s for cheap,  but it wasn't meant to be. So it got me thinking; price aside, which is a better choice- MK 41s or MK 41Vs? I considered MK21s but that may have to wait as I really want a pair of super cards. Anyone have thoughts on what would be a better choice, again price not an issue- just have to save up a bit longer. I understand how the capsules are different, but am looking for input on what you'd choose if you had the choice to buy just one pair.
Thanks for your consideration, now let's discuss.
Coby

[stevetoney]

To me, when you eliminate price, that really leaves only two factors.  Which is the better choice is purely a function of your personal need and preference.

1)  Vertical address vs. end address.  If you tape open, probably not much of a factor here but people seem to like the vertical address capsule design more for low-profile recording work.

2)  Frequency response.  The HF bump of the 41 makes it sound a bit thinner to me than a comparable mk4 or mk21 recording.  Personally, for the music and locations that I record, so far I like the mk41V.  Alot.  It retains the low end punch of the wider patterns while providing the sound rejection features of a 41. 
FWIW, I'm a 'point-at-stacks' taper. 

There might be one additional consideration I can think of.  The vertical address capsules have a greater screen surface area, so perhaps there would be a tendency that they'd need cleaning more often.  Not really sure about that though.

EDITED due to incorrect information as pointed out by someone later in this thread.

[todd e]

also depends what you are running them into, imho. 
since you already have the mounts etc for the 4s or 21s, no need to start getting vertical. 
the 41's are great

[H₂O]

I never ran the 41v's but I have run 4's, 5's, 4v's, and 41's


For the 4 vs 4v - I much prefered the 4 over the 4v - the 4v was a tad to bright IMO and also harder to get proper angles (but this is before vertical address bars)


I was able to get more consist results with the mk4 versus the mk4v

[raoulduke]

there may be some misconceptions going on here with regards to the mk41 vs the mk41v because there are indeed some differences between the two.  one is how they're housed in (end vs side-address) and the length of  (v series is longer) their outer shell.

their orientation, i.e. how they're physically pointed towards the sound source, and the housing changes the sonic characteristic and on/off axis frequency response of the capsule. depending on your needs those are a couple things you should be considering.

the mk4v has a slight high frequency bump when compared to its non side-addressed cardioid counterpart, the mk4. the 41v has an upper mid range dip that isn't present on the 41 and the polar response is also different at high frequencies.

regarding setup, one option is to run the 4v and 41v series backwards in the horizontal delrin bars.  it works exceptional for stealthing as well as open recording and the capsule spacing measurements are still correct for din, dina and nos but ortf (17 cm, 110°) will have an angle of 17 cm, 70°. i've never tested just exactly how it effects the sound when running them horizontally vs vertically but i've been doing it for years and am pleased with the recordings. the sound does arrive at the capsule differently when comparing horizontal vs vertical placement.

edit: clarify ortf

[stevetoney]

there may be some misconceptions going on here with regards to the mk41 vs the mk41v. 

^ Sheesh.  Of course, you're right.  For some reason in my earlier response, I was thinking that the hump that shows on the mk4v frequency response curve was on the mk41 curve since I've always perceived it to be slightly thinner sounding than an MK4.  Sorry for the incorrect information.  Earlier post edited.

[stevetoney]

Your comment really has got me thinking a little bit.  I got these 41v's a few months ago.  Up until now, I had really perceived these 41v's to have a slightly fuller bodied punchier sound than the 41's I ran for a couple of years.  Without giving it intense thought, I attributed it to the mistake I made in that post this AM and didn't give it much more thought.

But really I have no way of knowing for sure if that's true because I haven't done any A vs. B comps.  Bean and I record together alot, so next time we're at a festival together and I have both of my old vintage VMS's, I'll have him use one of my VMS's and I'll use the other and we'll put 41s and 41v's on the same stand.  Even wouldn't be a real A vs. B though since a Naiant PFA would be part of the chain in one case, but it would still be an interesting com.  Or maybe I'll also just swap my caps and his on the same rig and see what that sounds like.

[adrianf74]

But really I have no way of knowing for sure if that's true because I haven't done any A vs. B comps.  Bean and I record together alot, so next time we're at a festival together and I have both of my old vintage VMS's, I'll have him use one of my VMS's and I'll use the other and we'll put 41s and 41v's on the same stand.  Even wouldn't be a real A vs. B though since a Naiant PFA would be part of the chain in one case, but it would still be an interesting com.  Or maybe I'll also just swap my caps and his on the same rig and see what that sounds like.

It's not a scientific comp but one that would be interesting to hear none-the-less.  Please do post something, tonedeaf. 

I know a few people on here 'prefer' the 41V to the 41 but everything I read pointed to what raoulduke was saying so I went with the 41's (and so far I'm very happy with my results).   

[it-goes-to-eleven]

regarding setup, one option is to run the 4v and 41v series backwards in the horizontal delrin bars.  it works exceptional for stealthing as well as open recording and the capsule spacing measurements are still correct.

The exception there is ORTF. In the case of an ORTF bar the angle ends up being only 70 degrees.  I can make a horizontal position bar that correctly positions side address caps for ORTF.  Though a V bar is more versatile.

[Cobiwan]

there may be some misconceptions going on here with regards to the mk41 vs the mk41v. 

^ Sheesh.  Of course, you're right.  For some reason in my earlier response, I was thinking that the hump that shows on the mk4v frequency response curve was on the mk41 curve since I've always perceived it to be slightly thinner sounding than an MK4.  Sorry for the incorrect information.  Earlier post edited.

I too had the misconception that the MK41Vs had the same frequency bump as the MK4V. If this is not the case then I don't really see why I'd choose the 41V over the 41.
Now it's got me thinking I need to get 41s and 4Vs instead.

[F.O.Bean]

Sonically, the 41 vs. the 41v, SHOULD be exactly the same, even though the 41v is housed differently and all that jazz. Honestly, if money were no object, I'd STILL prefer the 41 vs. the 41v. Its smaller and you just "point" the mk41 caps MUCH easier than mk41vs. I have taped next to 41v numerous times since Ive had my Schoeps, and the 41v must be "pointed" perfectly, and ive even seen tapers put gaffers tape on their 41v caps and actives to make sure they dont get pointed another direction if a glowstick or beach ball or whatever hits your 41vs. I dont have to worry about that nearly as much with my mk41s. And the 41s are much cheaper than mk41vs. I honestly just dont see the point running mk41vs when the mk41s are cheaper and smaller. There is technically no point in running them soundwise so........

I think running end address mk41s over side-address mk41vs is just easier, cheaper, and more functional. Not to mention smaller than mk41vs. At the end of the day, its what you want!

[tim in jersey]

Sonically, the 41 vs. the 41v, SHOULD be exactly the same, even though the 41v is housed differently and all that jazz. Honestly, if money were no object, I'd STILL prefer the 41 vs. the 41v. Its smaller and you just "point" the mk41 caps MUCH easier than mk41vs. I have taped next to 41v numerous times since Ive had my Schoeps, and the 41v must be "pointed" perfectly, and ive even seen tapers put gaffers tape on their 41v caps and actives to make sure they dont get pointed another direction if a glowstick or beach ball or whatever hits your 41vs. I dont have to worry about that nearly as much with my mk41s. And the 41s are much cheaper than mk41vs. I honestly just dont see the point running mk41vs when the mk41s are cheaper and smaller. There is technically no point in running them soundwise so........

I think running end address mk41s over side-address mk41vs is just easier, cheaper, and more functional. Not to mention smaller than mk41vs. At the end of the day, its what you want!

There is one distinct advantage of the 41v vs. 41. The side address capsule is a much friendlier form factor for  .

[F.O.Bean]

Sonically, the 41 vs. the 41v, SHOULD be exactly the same, even though the 41v is housed differently and all that jazz. Honestly, if money were no object, I'd STILL prefer the 41 vs. the 41v. Its smaller and you just "point" the mk41 caps MUCH easier than mk41vs. I have taped next to 41v numerous times since Ive had my Schoeps, and the 41v must be "pointed" perfectly, and ive even seen tapers put gaffers tape on their 41v caps and actives to make sure they dont get pointed another direction if a glowstick or beach ball or whatever hits your 41vs. I dont have to worry about that nearly as much with my mk41s. And the 41s are much cheaper than mk41vs. I honestly just dont see the point running mk41vs when the mk41s are cheaper and smaller. There is technically no point in running them soundwise so........

I think running end address mk41s over side-address mk41vs is just easier, cheaper, and more functional. Not to mention smaller than mk41vs. At the end of the day, its what you want!

There is one distinct advantage of the 41v vs. 41. The side address capsule is a much friendlier form factor for  .

Really? You think so? I don't stea&th anymore and havent in many years, so I have no first hand experience. But I have heard that numerous times from Schoeps stea&thers Do you just run them in an ORTF bar, so that they are 70*? Or do you run them without an active bar? Oops, sorry, that should probably be said in a PM for you paranoid steal*hers

[adrianf74]

Sonically, the 41 vs. the 41v, SHOULD be exactly the same, even though the 41v is housed differently and all that jazz. Honestly, if money were no object, I'd STILL prefer the 41 vs. the 41v. Its smaller and you just "point" the mk41 caps MUCH easier than mk41vs. I have taped next to 41v numerous times since Ive had my Schoeps, and the 41v must be "pointed" perfectly, and ive even seen tapers put gaffers tape on their 41v caps and actives to make sure they dont get pointed another direction if a glowstick or beach ball or whatever hits your 41vs. I dont have to worry about that nearly as much with my mk41s. And the 41s are much cheaper than mk41vs. I honestly just dont see the point running mk41vs when the mk41s are cheaper and smaller. There is technically no point in running them soundwise so........

I think running end address mk41s over side-address mk41vs is just easier, cheaper, and more functional. Not to mention smaller than mk41vs. At the end of the day, its what you want!

There is one distinct advantage of the 41v vs. 41. The side address capsule is a much friendlier form factor for  .

Really? You think so? I don't stea&th anymore and havent in many years, so I have no first hand experience. But I have heard that numerous times from Schoeps stea&thers Do you just run them in an ORTF bar, so that they are 70*? Or do you run them without an active bar? Oops, sorry, that should probably be said in a PM for you paranoid steal*hers

I run A-B stereo (with my head facing the stacks) and have no issues with the standard MK41 capsule.  Works fine for me.  I can only imagine the coolness of having to wear my hat backwards to fit the MK41V capsules. 

[stevetoney]

The gaff tape is to keep the bar from rotating inside a mount not to keep vert address caps in place. 

[F.O.Bean]

The gaff tape is to keep the bar from rotating inside a mount not to keep vert address caps in place.

When I used to run FOB at All Good with Sam, he would put tape there, and always told me it was to keep the caps from rotating on the mounts?!?! It always did the trick too, because we would get hit with everything from glowsticks to MASSIVE beach balls, and those damn caps would stay right in place Thats when I was a beach ball serial killer, remember those days?!?! At All Good FOB in 2011, I had so many beach balls under my chair and around my stuff, that I HAD to kill around 100+ beach balls that weekend lol

[tim in jersey]

The gaff tape is to keep the bar from rotating inside a mount not to keep vert address caps in place.

When I used to run FOB at All Good with Sam, he would put tape there, and always told me it was to keep the caps from rotating on the mounts?!?! It always did the trick too, because we would get hit with everything from glowsticks to MASSIVE beach balls, and those damn caps would stay right in place Thats when I was a beach ball serial killer, remember those days?!?! At All Good FOB in 2011, I had so many beach balls under my chair and around my stuff, that I HAD to kill around 100+ beach balls that weekend lol

My favorite beach-ball take-down is by steve

[F.O.Bean]

The gaff tape is to keep the bar from rotating inside a mount not to keep vert address caps in place.

When I used to run FOB at All Good with Sam, he would put tape there, and always told me it was to keep the caps from rotating on the mounts?!?! It always did the trick too, because we would get hit with everything from glowsticks to MASSIVE beach balls, and those damn caps would stay right in place Thats when I was a beach ball serial killer, remember those days?!?! At All Good FOB in 2011, I had so many beach balls under my chair and around my stuff, that I HAD to kill around 100+ beach balls that weekend lol

My favorite beach-ball take-down is by steve

tonedeaf?!?! Aww, shit, youve never seen MY skills then Where do you think he learned from He uses keys. I use CRKT Knives

[tim in jersey]

The gaff tape is to keep the bar from rotating inside a mount not to keep vert address caps in place.

When I used to run FOB at All Good with Sam, he would put tape there, and always told me it was to keep the caps from rotating on the mounts?!?! It always did the trick too, because we would get hit with everything from glowsticks to MASSIVE beach balls, and those damn caps would stay right in place Thats when I was a beach ball serial killer, remember those days?!?! At All Good FOB in 2011, I had so many beach balls under my chair and around my stuff, that I HAD to kill around 100+ beach balls that weekend lol

My favorite beach-ball take-down is by steve

tonedeaf?!?! Aww, shit, youve never seen MY skills then Where do you think he learned from He uses keys. I use CRKT Knives

My bad actually. I meant soling/Steve from Wisconsin. He took down the biggest beach-ball I've ever seen @ DelFest 2 years ago. I had a lot of kills that day but Steve took out the MASSIVE, knock-down the entire tapers section beach ball I've ever seen. Totally stealth taboot. Of course, I encouraged the gutting of that beach ball and maybe lent the knife. Maybe.

[Cobiwan]

Bringing knives to a beach ball fight? I'd like to learn this technique!

[it-goes-to-eleven]

New product idea:  defensive shock mount

Basic model has small spikes.
Advanced model has spring loaded spikes that extend 2" in response to any contact

Spikes sold separately.
Void where prohibited by law.

[stevetoney]

tonedeaf?!?! Aww, shit, youve never seen MY skills then Where do you think he learned from He uses keys. I use CRKT Knives

Yeah, you did set the world record for beach ball kills that year at All Good.  One of the promotors great ideas was to use beach balls with their logo on it, so there were millions to kill that weekend.  LOL. 

I'm glad people have finally figured out that a beach ball won't survive for 5 minutes at a festival because the last year or two there hasn't been nearly as many as there were three or four years ago.  It's not just tapers that hate those damn things.

[Gutbucket]

Outside of the taping issues, deploying beach-balls at a show is a nefarious form of authoritarian forced participation, a direct affront to the ideals of individualism and diversity.  It is the eqvalent of the super annoying girl who is not content simply dancing up front by herself or dragging along a reluctant friend or two, but instead feels the need to play cheer-leader to the entire audience, screaming out repeatedly to everyone enjoying the show on their own terms and attempting to ignore her, "Comeon everybody! get up and dance! get up! get up!"

[stevetoney]

^ At a festival, I sometimes tape into the wee hours and get up as early as possible to catch the early acts.  Some days I'm taping 19 hours straight.  I'll catch a few naps during the day.  Inevitably, some douchebag gets offended that I might fall asleep in my camp chair so in my deep sleep they'll rudely awaken me to insist I join the party.  Get the fuck out of your own little world, man!

[Gutbucket]

"You're not enjoying this the way I think you should!"

[F.O.Bean]

tonedeaf?!?! Aww, shit, youve never seen MY skills then Where do you think he learned from He uses keys. I use CRKT Knives

Yeah, you did set the world record for beach ball kills that year at All Good.  One of the promotors great ideas was to use beach balls with their logo on it, so there were millions to kill that weekend.  LOL. 

I'm glad people have finally figured out that a beach ball won't survive for 5 minutes at a festival because the last year or two there hasn't been nearly as many as there were three or four years ago.  It's not just tapers that hate those damn things.

True! I noticed next to ZERO beach balls the last couple years. Thank God!!! I will stab the beach balls w a very sharp knife, and then send it back in the crowd, so it doesn't look like I just killed it lol Back in 2011/2012 people were giving me shit for killin soooo many beach balls. I got so much shit over that, that I used to lie to people and tell them I was recording FOR All Good and that was my job. They usually left me alone after I told them that it was my job hahaha

[Cobiwan]

tonedeaf?!?! Aww, shit, youve never seen MY skills then Where do you think he learned from He uses keys. I use CRKT Knives

Yeah, you did set the world record for beach ball kills that year at All Good.  One of the promotors great ideas was to use beach balls with their logo on it, so there were millions to kill that weekend.  LOL. 

I'm glad people have finally figured out that a beach ball won't survive for 5 minutes at a festival because the last year or two there hasn't been nearly as many as there were three or four years ago.  It's not just tapers that hate those damn things.

True! I noticed next to ZERO beach balls the last couple years. Thank God!!! I will stab the beach balls w a very sharp knife, and then send it back in the crowd, so it doesn't look like I just killed it lol Back in 2011/2012 people were giving me shit for killin soooo many beach balls. I got so much shit over that, that I used to lie to people and tell them I was recording FOR All Good and that was my job. They usually left me alone after I told them that it was my job hahaha

Screw that Bean! I will grab any beach ball in vicinity and bite/chew it until it dies and stand over top of it triumphantly while scowling!

[tim in jersey]

tonedeaf?!?! Aww, shit, youve never seen MY skills then Where do you think he learned from He uses keys. I use CRKT Knives

Yeah, you did set the world record for beach ball kills that year at All Good.  One of the promotors great ideas was to use beach balls with their logo on it, so there were millions to kill that weekend.  LOL. 

I'm glad people have finally figured out that a beach ball won't survive for 5 minutes at a festival because the last year or two there hasn't been nearly as many as there were three or four years ago.  It's not just tapers that hate those damn things.

True! I noticed next to ZERO beach balls the last couple years. Thank God!!! I will stab the beach balls w a very sharp knife, and then send it back in the crowd, so it doesn't look like I just killed it lol Back in 2011/2012 people were giving me shit for killin soooo many beach balls. I got so much shit over that, that I used to lie to people and tell them I was recording FOR All Good and that was my job. They usually left me alone after I told them that it was my job hahaha

Screw that Bean! I will grab any beach ball in vicinity and bite/chew it until it dies and stand over top of it triumphantly while scowling!

In my experience that attracts loud, boisterous drunks that want to stand under the mics and hoot and holler as an act of vengeance. I'm all about the stealth beach ball kill.

If it lands near me a quick nonchalant stab and slice as I "pick it back up" and send it back in to the crowd never to be seen again. If it's airborne (above the head) I palm the blade and bop it away. To the untrained eye it just looks like I'm trying to keep it afloat...

[F.O.Bean]

tonedeaf?!?! Aww, shit, youve never seen MY skills then Where do you think he learned from He uses keys. I use CRKT Knives

Yeah, you did set the world record for beach ball kills that year at All Good.  One of the promotors great ideas was to use beach balls with their logo on it, so there were millions to kill that weekend.  LOL. 

I'm glad people have finally figured out that a beach ball won't survive for 5 minutes at a festival because the last year or two there hasn't been nearly as many as there were three or four years ago.  It's not just tapers that hate those damn things.

True! I noticed next to ZERO beach balls the last couple years. Thank God!!! I will stab the beach balls w a very sharp knife, and then send it back in the crowd, so it doesn't look like I just killed it lol Back in 2011/2012 people were giving me shit for killin soooo many beach balls. I got so much shit over that, that I used to lie to people and tell them I was recording FOR All Good and that was my job. They usually left me alone after I told them that it was my job hahaha

Screw that Bean! I will grab any beach ball in vicinity and bite/chew it until it dies and stand over top of it triumphantly while scowling!

In my experience that attracts loud, boisterous drunks that want to stand under the mics and hoot and holler as an act of vengeance. I'm all about the stealth beach ball kill.

If it lands near me a quick nonchalant stab and slice as I "pick it back up" and send it back in to the crowd never to be seen again. If it's airborne (above the head) I palm the blade and bop it away. To the untrained eye it just looks like I'm trying to keep it afloat...

You know you've been taping a long time when u can stealthily kill a beach ball super slick, and send it back in the crowd, so u don't get blamed for it lol I really only kill beach balls when I'm FOB, because that's where they are the most abundant. When I record in the OTS, beach balls aren't nearly as prevalent, but if it hits the mics or is too close, that muthafucka is getn POPPED, no mercy hahaha

[DSatz]

It's true that the moderate high-frequency elevation of the MK 4 V is not designed into the MK 41 V, and that people shouldn't assume that a "V" capsule would inherently have this elevation. For a number of years Schoeps made a version of the MK 4 V (cardioid) available without the elevation--the MK 4 VJ--and when you think about it, the MK 6 and MK 8 are also "V" (vertical) capsules, and they don't have the high-frequency elevation, either.

But what's the source for the statement that the MK 41 and MK 41 V are the same capsule internally, and have the same frequency response? They don't have the same frequency response. (The MK 41 V has a slight dip in the upper midrange, for example.) They also don't have the same polar response at high frequencies. In the horizontal plane, which is the one plane most of us care about for stereo recording, a "vertical" or "radial" capsule presents a radially symmetrical surface to the sound field, while this is not the case for "front-facing" capsules.

--best regards

Edited in 2019 to add: More recent graphs of the MK 41 V's frequency response actually do show a mild high-frequency elevation, which wasn't shown in the earlier graphs.

[bombdiggity]

In the horizontal plane, which is the one plane most of us care about for stereo recording, a "vertical" or "radial" capsule presents a radially symmetrical surface to the sound field, while this is not the case for "front-facing" capsules.

You sir just hit the advantage I've not quite identified so simply...  It's obvious though once you think about it a minute 

Thanks again.   

[kingkita]

Big Perm ran mine backwards here http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=574017 I've ran them a bunch backwards nos mk41v and 4v I like it deff changes it up.

[F.O.Bean]

Big Perm ran mine backwards here http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=574017 I've ran them a bunch backwards nos mk41v and 4v I like it deff changes it up.

I just knew you'd pop your head in this thread lol. Ive been talking to you for a few years now, since Superball 9 when we ran FOB, and you've always told me your love for the V caps Damnit DSatz, now Im going to want a pair of mk41v In all seriousness though, thanks for setting the record straight, DSatz! I always heard from other Schoeps tapers that the caps were identical and just the housings were different. That's why I never saw the need or want for the mk41v caps, for myself! Guess I learned something new today, huh? But I LOVE my mk4 and mk41 caps and would'nt trade them for the world!!! Go Team Schoeps!!!

[Jonas Karlsson]

So, did anyone make a good comparison (side by side) with the MK41V and MK41 yet? A lot of talk about beach balls

/Jonas

[TheMetalist]

So, did anyone make a good comparison (side by side) with the MK41V and MK41 yet? A lot of talk about beach balls

/Jonas

Nice to see you here again my friend. 

[Dede2002]

"You're not enjoying this the way I think you should!"

That's a classic one.

[rippleish20]

I have owned both and thought they both sounded good.  I prefer the 41s because they seem more directional. It seems the V series have more surface area channeling sound to the capsules, based on more mesh grill space. I love Schoeps but they pick up people talking from amile away. The 41Vs seemed to be more open to me but also picked up more talking. I wonder if the capsules are actually the same, the housing and larger surface area just leads to a different pickup pattern?

I could be entirely wrong about all of this. In the end, I decided to settle on the non V capsules...

[noahbickart]

I own the mk41v. I neither know nor care if it “sounds” better, but it is much easier to use in the field. I tend to run modified PAS with them and can set them up perfectly in seconds. They also work well in the kangol.

[TheMetalist]

I prefer the 41s because they seem more directional. It seems the V series have more surface area channeling sound to the capsules, based on more mesh grill space. I love Schoeps but they pick up people talking from amile away. The 41Vs seemed to be more open to me but also picked up more talking.

Just curious. Are you usually open taping or stealth? If you are open taping (stand and clamps) I don't doubt the Vs captures some of the surroundings as well. If you stealth you should have some "body part" behind the capsules which theoretically would make it less possible to capture people talking, right? At least people at the sides and back. Just a thought and it's possible I'm wrong. I recently purchased a pair of MK41Vs and I still have a lot to learn...

[rippleish20]

I prefer the 41s because they seem more directional. It seems the V series have more surface area channeling sound to the capsules, based on more mesh grill space. I love Schoeps but they pick up people talking from amile away. The 41Vs seemed to be more open to me but also picked up more talking.

Just curious. Are you usually open taping or stealth? If you are open taping (stand and clamps) I don't doubt the Vs captures some of the surroundings as well. If you stealth you should have some "body part" behind the capsules which theoretically would make it less possible to capture people talking, right? At least people at the sides and back. Just a thought and it's possible I'm wrong. I recently purchased a pair of MK41Vs and I still have a lot to learn...

I only use 41/41v's for open taping

[tim in jersey]

I prefer the 41s because they seem more directional. It seems the V series have more surface area channeling sound to the capsules, based on more mesh grill space. I love Schoeps but they pick up people talking from amile away. The 41Vs seemed to be more open to me but also picked up more talking.

Just curious. Are you usually open taping or stealth? If you are open taping (stand and clamps) I don't doubt the Vs captures some of the surroundings as well. If you stealth you should have some "body part" behind the capsules which theoretically would make it less possible to capture people talking, right? At least people at the sides and back. Just a thought and it's possible I'm wrong. I recently purchased a pair of MK41Vs and I still have a lot to learn...

I've run a bunch of mics over the years and to my way of thinking, the MK4V caps are the most versatile for open AND 007. As far as picking up the "Chatty Cathies" in the crowd I feel as though cards outperform the hypers regardless of brand. That big lobe pickup pattern on the back of most hypers tends to introduce a lot of unwanted chitter-chatter and room reflection.

Worst room I record in every year needs shotguns to tame the room and the drunks...

[DSatz]

> Worst room I record in every year needs shotguns to tame the room and the drunks...

I hope you mean shotgun microphones, not actual shotguns. Although with some rooms and some drunks, I could maybe understand wanting to use the real thing.

99% of the time I record live music that is unamplified. Whenever I can, I place my mikes high up and aim them downward at the performers. That way the rear lobes of supercardioids are pointing into the air in the back of the hall, where they pick up long-delayed reverberant sound from the far corners of the room. That's often a real plus for the recording.

But for me the main benefits of using either the 41 or 41 V, compared to a standard cardioid, are (a) the greater sensitivity to different pickup angles, i.e. a more detailed stereo "soundstage" as the audiophiles call it, and (b) better consistency of sound quality between on-axis and off-axis pickup, particularly at the both ends of the frequency range.

People who record live performances often don't seem to realize that generally, they are recording much more off-axis sound than on-axis sound. Your microphones would have to be remarkably close to the sound sources, and aimed directly at them, for that NOT to be so.

--best regards

[heathen]

So, did anyone make a good comparison (side by side) with the MK41V and MK41 yet?

This is what I want, and in the setting of a concert like most here are recording (loud PA, etc).

[dhora]

This thread made me think of this clip from Electric Apricot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl7M67vgsiM&feature=youtu.be&t=39

[heathen]

This thread made me think of this clip from Electric Apricot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl7M67vgsiM&feature=youtu.be&t=39

"Yeah, well.  It's a 4V."  That was great