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Author Topic: Pmd661mklll dig input issue  (Read 659 times)

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Offline jcable77

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Pmd661mklll dig input issue
« on: December 28, 2018, 08:27:57 AM »
Im not sure if Im just exhausted or what? I just got a pmd661mk3 and im in the process of testing it. I connected with the digi cable of a v3 and cant get levels( presets to dig 24/48 stereo, same as v3) unless I turn up the rec level on the mk3. Unplugged it, and plugged the same cable into my mk2 and with rec levels all the way off have signal like I would normally. Does the mk3 have level control over digital signal? Am I missing something?
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Offline dallman

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Re: Pmd661mklll dig input issue
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2018, 11:39:46 AM »
Maybe a silly question, but do you have D.In set as the input in the menu settings? I have never seen the record level control work on a digi in as the deck is only a bit bucket at that point so it sounds like a menu issue. As you know Marantz pre-set menu setup is really detailed but can be confusing when setting up.
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Offline jcable77

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Re: Pmd661mklll dig input issue
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2018, 12:49:36 PM »
Yeah, its D.in. Ive never seen a deck have adjustable record level while dig in. All my presets are the same as the mk2. Maybe a firmware issue? Its weird, it runs fine with record levels @12:00 or +0.
ADK a51tl’s, Telefunken m60’s tk60’s,61’s,62’s, Teac me-120’s(c,o,sh),JZ-bt201’s(c,o,sc)
AKG 480’s ck61’s, a60’s>ck22’s>akg active naiant pfa’s>
V-3,Mini-Me’s,shure fp24
Mixpre 6, pmd661’s

Offline DSatz

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Re: Pmd661mklll dig input issue
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2018, 03:47:39 PM »
I also bought one of these recorders recently, so just now I unboxed it and replicated your setup. To my astonishment, the record level controls are in effect even when the input is digital. And I don't see a way to defeat or bypass them. (Approximate unity gain is near the top of their range, but it's only approximate.)

If I'd known this I wouldn't have bought the recorder, though I may use it for its analog inputs at some point. Meanwhile, unless/until there's a workaround, I wouldn't use it as a "bit bucket".

I mean, I can see the designers' point of view. But even if they wanted to make this behavior the default for the benefit of less technically informed users, the controls really should be "bypassable" via a menu item.

--best regards
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 03:58:54 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline jcable77

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Re: Pmd661mklll dig input issue
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2018, 01:22:55 AM »
I also bought one of these recorders recently, so just now I unboxed it and replicated your setup. To my astonishment, the record level controls are in effect even when the input is digital. And I don't see a way to defeat or bypass them. (Approximate unity gain is near the top of their range, but it's only approximate.)

If I'd known this I wouldn't have bought the recorder, though I may use it for its analog inputs at some point. Meanwhile, unless/until there's a workaround, I wouldn't use it as a "bit bucket".

I mean, I can see the designers' point of view. But even if they wanted to make this behavior the default for the benefit of less technically informed users, the controls really should be "bypassable" via a menu item.

--best regards
Thank you for looking into it. Glad Im not just crazy. Who wants to trade a brand new mk3 for any condition mk2? Hopefully B+H will take it back.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2018, 01:36:21 AM by jcable77 »
ADK a51tl’s, Telefunken m60’s tk60’s,61’s,62’s, Teac me-120’s(c,o,sh),JZ-bt201’s(c,o,sc)
AKG 480’s ck61’s, a60’s>ck22’s>akg active naiant pfa’s>
V-3,Mini-Me’s,shure fp24
Mixpre 6, pmd661’s

Offline dactylus

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Re: Pmd661mklll dig input issue
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2018, 11:29:41 AM »
I also bought one of these recorders recently, so just now I unboxed it and replicated your setup. To my astonishment, the record level controls are in effect even when the input is digital. And I don't see a way to defeat or bypass them. (Approximate unity gain is near the top of their range, but it's only approximate.)

If I'd known this I wouldn't have bought the recorder, though I may use it for its analog inputs at some point. Meanwhile, unless/until there's a workaround, I wouldn't use it as a "bit bucket".

I mean, I can see the designers' point of view. But even if they wanted to make this behavior the default for the benefit of less technically informed users, the controls really should be "bypassable" via a menu item.

--best regards
Thank you for looking into it. Glad Im not just crazy. Who wants to trade a brand new mk3 for any condition mk2? Hopefully B+H will take it back.

With patient searching a mint condition 661, version 1 or 2 can be picked up on fleabay for a very reasonable price.

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Offline jcable77

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Re: Pmd661mklll dig input issue
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2018, 12:12:35 PM »
I also bought one of these recorders recently, so just now I unboxed it and replicated your setup. To my astonishment, the record level controls are in effect even when the input is digital. And I don't see a way to defeat or bypass them. (Approximate unity gain is near the top of their range, but it's only approximate.)

If I'd known this I wouldn't have bought the recorder, though I may use it for its analog inputs at some point. Meanwhile, unless/until there's a workaround, I wouldn't use it as a "bit bucket".

I mean, I can see the designers' point of view. But even if they wanted to make this behavior the default for the benefit of less technically informed users, the controls really should be "bypassable" via a menu item.

--best regards
Thank you for looking into it. Glad Im not just crazy. Who wants to trade a brand new mk3 for any condition mk2? Hopefully B+H will take it back.

With patient searching a mint condition 661, version 1 or 2 can be picked up on fleabay for a very reasonable price.
Haha, I probly should have held onto the one I just sold you. :facepalm:
ADK a51tl’s, Telefunken m60’s tk60’s,61’s,62’s, Teac me-120’s(c,o,sh),JZ-bt201’s(c,o,sc)
AKG 480’s ck61’s, a60’s>ck22’s>akg active naiant pfa’s>
V-3,Mini-Me’s,shure fp24
Mixpre 6, pmd661’s

Offline dactylus

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Re: Pmd661mklll dig input issue
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2018, 01:49:32 PM »
^
 D'oh.  :facepalm:

It took me a minute to make that connection.  I also recently picked up a mkII from fleabay to send to Doug Oade for modding.  I'll blame my sluggish brain function on the frigid temps here.  Or it could possibly be Father Time.   :yack:    The pmd661 is a great recorder. I have an Oade modded one here that I've been using for ~10 years, excellent for both open and 007...
« Last Edit: December 30, 2018, 07:32:13 AM by dactylus »
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Offline DSatz

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Re: Pmd661mklll dig input issue
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2019, 04:32:02 PM »
My dealer (Dale Pro Audio in NYC) gave me contact information for an engineer at the parent company of Marantz Pro Audio. I just wrote to that person about this problem; I suggested a firmware update to add a menu option that would bypass the record level controls for the S/P-DIF input. That way, newbies would still get the behavior they expect, and "oldbies" like us can also get what we need.

BTW, one reason I like to buy stuff from Dale is that they have actual audio engineers on their sales staff. They understood the problem right away and cared about it, even though this was a small-ticket item. I'm sure that if I'd asked them to do the talking for me, they would have done so, and in a knowledgeable way.

--best regards
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 08:26:47 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline DSatz

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Re: Pmd661mklll dig input issue
« Reply #9 on: Yesterday at 07:03:45 AM »
I heard back almost immediately from the engineer at "inMusic Brands" (parent company of Denon and Marantz Pro as well as RANE). He understood the problem completely, but no one had brought it up to them before (!), and it is already late in the "product life cycle" for the Mk III. He said that no firmware update is currently scheduled, but he will ask whether one can be considered.

His email was guarded/reserved about that possibility, though. Apparently a Mk IV version is already in the works; my guess is that it might get this menu option if that is feasible (which no one has said yet), and/or it might happen sooner for the Mk IV than for the Mk III. This guess is based on the way U.S. business school grads seem to think these days, with the quarterly profit and loss statement sitting like the Earth at the center of their Ptolemaic universe. Presumably they are already testing the new version, so adding one more "feature" costs them only a relatively small increase in the development that they're already doing. The decision to issue an otherwise unplanned firmware update for the Mk III would presumably require more of a "buy-in" from the business side; they wouldn't want to put the release schedule for the Mk IV at risk, plus it would require a new budget item that earns no specifically identifiable profit to justify the spending.

You can't put exact numbers on the value of company credibility and a loyal customer base, but if managers aren't very careful to respect them, those assets can be treated as if their unquantifiable value might as well be zero. It's a mistake that regularly kills entire companies, while their managers remain convinced that to discount such "intangibles" is hard-nosed and rational. (No, I don't have any sad experience in this area, nor any of my friends or associates; nor has the audio world lost many of its former leading names to mergers and acquisitions that have "rescued" the names themselves, but not the companies' employees, customers, product quality or general reason for existence; why do you ask? Do I seem to have a chip on my shoulder or something?)

--best regards
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 01:43:42 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline goodcooker

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Re: Pmd661mklll dig input issue
« Reply #10 on: Yesterday at 09:30:14 AM »
^ In my experience dealing with Marantz re the issues I had with the 706 I found them to be very responsive and had "music pros" working the customer service lines but the same feeling from them that they were very guarded in promising any kind of actual results.

They eventually came out with a firmware fix for the problems I had but only after a year. Can't see them spending the time and money on a what could be considered a minor glitch that doesn't affect the large part of the consumer base when they have a new version coming out soon anyway.
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