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Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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722 battery longevity?
« on: April 15, 2005, 09:08:38 PM »
Has anyone run their 722 battery into the ground?  What capacity cell and how long did it last?  What was the shutdown behavior of the 722?

I'm running a test with the 6000mAH cell starting with a full charge and recording audio using phantom and the back light on.  I'm at 4.5 hours now and the battery indicator shows 50% at 7.0V.   Can this be correct?  I'm getting much better longevity than I expected and I don't trust it.

Edit for update:

The unit shut down after 5:15 of record time.   Plenty long enough for my needs. 

The bar in the battery display is not an accurate indication of percent time remaining (maybe not intended to be).  I didn't stand over it but I think it shut down after about 14 minutes of low battery indication blinking.

I'd still like to hear what others are getting from their batteries if anyone has run to shutdown.

« Last Edit: April 15, 2005, 09:45:17 PM by Lil' Kim Jong-Il »
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Offline krebsy

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2005, 09:56:22 PM »
Does it shut down gracefully, saving the file first?
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Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2005, 10:21:44 PM »
Mine did.  File was closed and the machine powered down.  Last file segment opened no problem. (I was splitting at 2G so I got 5 big files and the tail)
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Offline Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2005, 09:45:05 AM »
Has anyone run their 722 battery into the ground?  What capacity cell and how long did it last?  What was the shutdown behavior of the 722?

I'm running a test with the 6000mAH cell starting with a full charge and recording audio using phantom and the back light on.  I'm at 4.5 hours now and the battery indicator shows 50% at 7.0V.   Can this be correct?  I'm getting much better longevity than I expected and I don't trust it.

Edit for update:

The unit shut down after 5:15 of record time.   Plenty long enough for my needs. 

The bar in the battery display is not an accurate indication of percent time remaining (maybe not intended to be).  I didn't stand over it but I think it shut down after about 14 minutes of low battery indication blinking.

I'd still like to hear what others are getting from their batteries if anyone has run to shutdown.


I'm assuming that's including sending phantom power?
Maybe a couple of small scratches, but thats because these mics are chick magnets.
Girls always up on Andy tryin to grab these mics, the scratches are from their wedding rings.

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Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2005, 11:04:36 AM »
I'm assuming that's including sending phantom power?

Yes.  Phantom and LCD back light.
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Offline Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2005, 11:24:25 AM »
I'm assuming that's including sending phantom power?

Yes.  Phantom and LCD back light.

I need those guys to re-design the power supply for my air conditioner, I'm thinking they might be able to make it run on 2 aa NiMH bats for 8 hrs.  :D

Do you think runing at different sample rates would have any significant difference to consider in power consumption?

Maybe a couple of small scratches, but thats because these mics are chick magnets.
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Offline JasonR

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2005, 11:30:27 AM »
Do you think runing at different sample rates would have any significant difference to consider in power consumption?

It should.  I'll do some comparison tests this weekend.

I'd still love to see some HD vs. CF tests.  I really don't want to spend a ton of cash on a big CF card, but it could be an awesome setup depending on its longevity and possible cooler running temperature.
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Offline scb

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2005, 11:41:27 AM »
when i ran 24/192 it definitely used up more juice.  of course that's 2x the data writing to the drive than 24/96

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2005, 11:51:26 AM »
when i ran 24/192 it definitely used up more juice.  of course that's 2x the data writing to the drive than 24/96

I'd also imagine there would be a curve in the usage, being less efficient at higher operating temperatures.
Maybe a couple of small scratches, but thats because these mics are chick magnets.
Girls always up on Andy tryin to grab these mics, the scratches are from their wedding rings.

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Offline cd2go

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2005, 10:29:48 PM »
hey guys, I'm considering breaking the bank to upgrade from my JB3 to a 722 but was wondering where i could get a higher mAH battery---and is replacing the stock battery as easy as opening the unit up and popping in the new one?...also, Lil' Kim...what bit rate/res were you running when you got 5 hours?

Thanks!

Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2005, 10:56:07 PM »
I was running at 24/96.  The battery is a Sony camcorder battery format that is externally mounted to the unit.  You don't have to open up the 722 to change batteries.  Field swap is very quick and easy.

You can use any battery in that format.  I bought a 6000mAh battery but there are higher capacity batteries now.  I cannot recall where I ordered these but I got the link from a thread here so if you search for "722 battery" you'll find it.  I understand that they may have increased the price of the batteries since the 722 was released.  Last time I looked the price was more than I remember paying.
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Offline monochromic

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2006, 07:47:29 AM »
has anyone run the stock (1500mAh?) battery till it's dry? just wondering how long it would be likely to last at 24/96 taking s/pdif from a v3 -- i'll be hitting three shows (1.5hr approx.) this weekend and am hoping to run the stock battery and recharge daily before the next show.

edit: answer on the 7xx team board, http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=53636.msg855360#msg855360
« Last Edit: May 01, 2006, 04:51:01 PM by monochromic »
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Offline mmedley.

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2006, 02:13:27 PM »
The stock battery now is a 4600mah. At least that is what came with mine back in December.
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Offline phr

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2006, 05:19:43 AM »
For 6000 mah batteries type "NP-F960" into ebay.  They are about 30 bucks (non-Sony).  I think there might be an NP-F970 now with even higher capacity.

Offline CQBert

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2006, 06:58:21 AM »
When I ran a 722 this is what I was using for power...  hope it helps..

http://www.batterybank.com/master/npf960.html

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Offline Mitch

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2006, 12:00:23 PM »
I have used a 7800 mAh NP-F970 (Assia brand) that I got on ebay, 2 for $75.00 shipped.

I got approx. 4+ hours at 44.1 kHz, !6 bit.  Light off.

I now use an external 12 V, 4 Ah, sealed lead acid battery which I tested at 96 kHz, 24 bit, light on, and got 5.5 hours.

I paid $13.00 for the battery, and had a Battery Minder charger which I use for charging. I made a F 4 pin XLR to 2 M 4 pin XLRs Y cord.
The Y cord facilitates a seamless change of external batteries while recording. I also picked up a 7 Ah sealed lead acid battery for $13.99!

Check out NP-F790s here:

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2F&fkr=1&from=R8&satitle=np-f970&category0=

Also....when in a hostile enviornment, I put my 722 in a gallon Ziploc bag, and tape the zipper closed over the mic & power wires. I then tape the bag in such a way so the front panel of the 722 is clearly visible. Transport and level controls are accessed easily with the bag in place. ;)
« Last Edit: June 07, 2006, 12:04:36 PM by Mitch »

Offline fozzy

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2006, 12:22:06 PM »
I have used a 7800 mAh NP-F970 (Assia brand) that I got on ebay, 2 for $75.00 shipped.



do you mean 6800mAh?

I get 6+ hours w/ my similar battery w/ light on and Phantom to the MBHOs
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Offline Mitch

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2006, 01:57:35 PM »
I have used a 7800 mAh NP-F970 (Assia brand) that I got on ebay, 2 for $75.00 shipped.



do you mean 6800mAh?

I get 6+ hours w/ my similar battery w/ light on and Phantom to the MBHOs

No.  What sample rate, and bit depth were you using?

Offline ts

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2006, 02:29:09 PM »
I have used a 7800 mAh NP-F970 (Assia brand) that I got on ebay, 2 for $75.00 shipped.



do you mean 6800mAh?

I get 6+ hours w/ my similar battery w/ light on and Phantom to the MBHOs

Me too. 6+ hours with phantom and lights on at 24/96

Offline Trevor A

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2006, 03:10:19 PM »
do you mean 6800mAh?

I get 6+ hours w/ my similar battery w/ light on and Phantom to the MBHOs

I got over 10 hours with a no name 6800mAH at 24/96 with
phantom to my km140's and no lights. Using the stock
battery, I got almost 5 hours with phantom and no lights.

I prefer the stock battery because it is smaller. I would
rather use 2 of them than 1 of the 6800mAH batteries. It is
a tight fit going into my inside jacket pocket with the
6800mAH battery. ;)
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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2006, 03:12:12 PM »
24/96, to HD, Lights & LEDs on (dimmest setting), Phantom. 

I have one of these http://www.keybattery.com/product_info.php/products_id/11267
I originally got 3, 2 for me one for Rick, but I broke one of them b/c I didn't have the release button properly depressed.  These state that they are 5500mAh but my li-ion charger says they are actually ~6000mAh [The Astroflight 109 charger tells you how much it fed to the battery].  The cells do not have any numbering but they look like they are made of 6 2000mAh 18650(4/3AF) cells. 

As far as I know the 18650 cells are only available in 1.4A(4.2A in a 6 cells 7.2v pack), 1.8A(5.4A in a 6 cells 7.2v pack), 2A(6A in a 6 cells 7.2v pack), 2.2A(6.6A in a 6 cells 7.2v pack) and 2.4A varities.  A true NP-F960 must have 2400mah LG 18650 cells(light grey).  They are the only ones on the market rated @ 2400mAh.  6 of these calculates to 7200mAh @ 7.2V. 

these 18650 li-ion cells generally contain 10-15% more power than the specs state, some manufactures account for this in their advertisement of assembled packs. 

I remember reading somewhere that the 722 w/ lights & phantom consumes roughly 1amp per hour, thats what my experiense shows.  When I run my 14.4ah festi pack I get between 14hr45min and 15hr30min. 
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Offline Mitch

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2006, 05:27:22 PM »
I will run a test, and get back with the results. Just because the label on the batt. says 7800 mAh, doesn't make it so. ;D

BTW...I have a 80 GB, 5200 RPM HDD in my 722.

Offline Mitch

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2006, 05:36:04 PM »

The bar in the battery display is not an accurate indication of percent time remaining (maybe not intended to be).


The battery display is an indication of Voltage, not percentage of battery life left.  ;)

Offline Mitch

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2006, 10:21:00 PM »
Apparently the 7800 mAh rating on my battery is BS!

Recording, light on, LEDs dimmest, 96/24, phantom on.

I noticed low power flash at 3:45, power down at 3:53.


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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2006, 12:36:47 AM »
Apparently the 7800 mAh rating on my battery is BS!

Recording, light on, LEDs dimmest, 96/24, phantom on.

I noticed low power flash at 3:45, power down at 3:53.



yea you should get at least 6+ hours from a full charge. sounds more like a 4000mAh battery
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Offline WiFiJeff

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2006, 03:44:47 PM »

yea you should get at least 6+ hours from a full charge. sounds more like a 4000mAh battery


I just tested my 722 with an Audio Technica mic taking 4mA phantom power draw, a 7000 mAh rated Power 2000 battery lasted just under 6 hours.  No back light but meter lights on. 

Jeff

Offline Mitch

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2006, 05:30:58 PM »
If we're going to compare battery run times, we need to have a standard for everyone to use to compare their batts.

I suggest this:

Sample / bit  96/24

light on

meter LEDs dimmest setting

phantom on

mediia: HDD

unit actually recording with some input signal

If we all use the same parameters for testing, the comparisons will have more meaning.

I ordered two new batts.. I will test 'em when I get 'em, and report the results.

Offline Mic D

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2006, 05:40:11 PM »

BTW...I have a 80 GB, 5200 RPM HDD in my 722.

Would'nt the bigger HDD give you shorter run times?

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #28 on: June 08, 2006, 05:46:29 PM »

BTW...I have a 80 GB, 5200 RPM HDD in my 722.

Would'nt the bigger HDD give you shorter run times?

no.  If the drive was slower like a 4200rpm drive you would get better run times, a 7200rpm drive would get less.  SD states that the slower drives are adequate for recording.
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Offline Mitch

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #29 on: June 08, 2006, 08:50:08 PM »

BTW...I have a 80 GB, 5200 RPM HDD in my 722.

Would'nt the bigger HDD give you shorter run times?

no.  If the drive was slower like a 4200rpm drive you would get better run times, a 7200rpm drive would get less.  SD states that the slower drives are adequate for recording.
 

FYI:

I had a 4200 rpm, 60 GB HDD in my 722, which had a bunch of recordings on it, and I got slow drive indication, and the 722 stopped recording.

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2006, 08:56:21 PM »

BTW...I have a 80 GB, 5200 RPM HDD in my 722.

Would'nt the bigger HDD give you shorter run times?

no.  If the drive was slower like a 4200rpm drive you would get better run times, a 7200rpm drive would get less.  SD states that the slower drives are adequate for recording.
 

FYI:

I had a 4200 rpm, 60 GB HDD in my 722, which had a bunch of recordings on it, and I got slow drive indication, and the 722 stopped recording.

really? was it too hot?

is it relative easy to put a new HD in? i hear the top of the case is a bitch to put back on :(

what comes stock? a 4200RPM drive?
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Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2006, 08:58:37 PM »

BTW...I have a 80 GB, 5200 RPM HDD in my 722.

Would'nt the bigger HDD give you shorter run times?

Capacity doesn't affect power consumption.  Spindle speed is usually impacts power but it's only relative as a general rule.  You may find one manufacture drive is higher RPM but lower power than another manufactures lower RPM drive.

I have an 80G 5200 RPM drive and I get about 5.5 hours from a 6000mAH battery labeled Power2000 from batteryspace.  That is with the meters on low, LCD back lit, phantom to KM140s and a solid signal present at the mics.   Since I've been running line in to the 722, with all other things the same I get over 7hrs record/playback time time but haven't run it down yet. 


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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2006, 09:10:16 PM »

BTW...I have a 80 GB, 5200 RPM HDD in my 722.

Would'nt the bigger HDD give you shorter run times?

Capacity doesn't affect power consumption.  Spindle speed is usually impacts power but it's only relative as a general rule.  You may find one manufacture drive is higher RPM but lower power than another manufactures lower RPM drive.

I have an 80G 5200 RPM drive and I get about 5.5 hours from a 6000mAH battery labeled Power2000 from batteryspace.  That is with the meters on low, LCD back lit, phantom to KM140s and a solid signal present at the mics.   Since I've been running line in to the 722, with all other things the same I get over 7hrs record/playback time time but haven't run it down yet. 




so does everyone run mic in or line in ???

does  a pad have to be engaged for mic-in ???
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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2006, 09:22:01 PM »
#
« Last Edit: June 28, 2007, 11:14:32 AM by fozzy »
MK 4V > KCY 250/5 Ig (KS 10I)  > VST62IUg > 722

Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2006, 09:54:59 PM »
I always run the line in because I put the V3 in front.  I think the physical switch is there because it also selects the input impedence.  If it was just gain range they do it with a menu selection and save the price of the switches.

I'm not sure about any PAD for the mic-in.  I think the 722 will handle a wide signal range.

So Bean did you get your V2 wired up yet?
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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2006, 10:01:50 PM »
I run Mic IN but for some super loud shit(on stage hons & drums) I have run line-in w/ phantom.  There is a slider switch above the XLR inputs for line/mic and inside the settings there are high/low gain settings for mic input

so high or low gain for mic in ???

I always run the line in because I put the V3 in front.  I think the physical switch is there because it also selects the input impedence.  If it was just gain range they do it with a menu selection and save the price of the switches.

I'm not sure about any PAD for the mic-in.  I think the 722 will handle a wide signal range.

So Bean did you get your V2 wired up yet?

still need to buy/find one, prolly cant afford it for a month or two tho :'( so the 722 pre/ad is gonna have to do :) i have alot of painting side-jobs lined up so i should be able to afford the v2 pretty soon :)

still need to sell the v3 too :(
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Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2006, 10:15:20 PM »
so high or low gain for mic in ???

I don't know.  I depends on your mics and the music. 

With 140s and 4023s, I always used the lower range when running mic in.  I never needed more than what the lower range provided.  But I run up close.

With line in, you get -6db to +18db trim (or somethng like that).  I usually run the V3 at 25db to 30db and the 722 is within 4db of 0.


Quote

still need to buy/find one, prolly cant afford it for a month or two tho :'( so the 722 pre/ad is gonna have to do :) i have alot of painting side-jobs lined up so i should be able to afford the v2 pretty soon :)

still need to sell the v3 too :(

Until you can swap preamps, just run the V3 in front.  It's sweet.  You should run both and get a sense of how they differ, but I think you'll like the grace preamp better. 

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2006, 11:01:47 PM »
I run low gain setting with the 4V's. That should give you plenty of room to work with.
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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #38 on: June 09, 2006, 10:12:07 AM »
so high or low gain for mic in ???

I don't know.  I depends on your mics and the music. 

With 140s and 4023s, I always used the lower range when running mic in.  I never needed more than what the lower range provided.  But I run up close.

With line in, you get -6db to +18db trim (or somethng like that).  I usually run the V3 at 25db to 30db and the 722 is within 4db of 0.


Quote

still need to buy/find one, prolly cant afford it for a month or two tho :'( so the 722 pre/ad is gonna have to do :) i have alot of painting side-jobs lined up so i should be able to afford the v2 pretty soon :)

still need to sell the v3 too :(

Until you can swap preamps, just run the V3 in front.  It's sweet.  You should run both and get a sense of how they differ, but I think you'll like the grace preamp better. 



What is a V3, why is it necessary with a 722? The mic preamps, and A to D convertors in the 722 are supposedly top notch.

Offline Mitch

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #39 on: June 09, 2006, 10:19:22 AM »

BTW...I have a 80 GB, 5200 RPM HDD in my 722.

Would'nt the bigger HDD give you shorter run times?

no.  If the drive was slower like a 4200rpm drive you would get better run times, a 7200rpm drive would get less.  SD states that the slower drives are adequate for recording.
 

FYI:

I had a 4200 rpm, 60 GB HDD in my 722, which had a bunch of recordings on it, and I got slow drive indication, and the 722 stopped recording.

really? was it too hot?

is it relative easy to put a new HD in? i hear the top of the case is a bitch to put back on :(

what comes stock? a 4200RPM drive?

When I got my 722, they were selling raw units w/o HDD, batt., or AC adaptor, which is what I bought. The first drive I put in it was a 60 GB, 4200 rpm. It did not get too hot. I was getting the slow indication, and stopping recording problems when I had approx. 6 hours recording time left @ 24/96. I spoke with Justin at SD, and decided to put the same make, and speed drive (Samsung Spinpoint M MP0804H 80GB ATA-6 5400RPM) as SD sends out with new 722s, except I got the 80 GB, as they supply a 60 GB. I have recorded with the 722 in the Camrade/SD  bag made for the 722, outdoors, with temps around 100 degrees, and have never had any heat related issues.

Installing the HDD is easy. 7 screws, and the bottom lifts off. Be careful with the ribbon cable and connector. When replacing the bottom cover, make sure the tabs on the front and sides fit into the notches on the cover. Be careful not to over tighten and strip the cover screws, and you're good to go. There is also a rechargable NiMH AA cell for the clock and date memory, in a battery clip on the inside of the bottom cover which is easily replacable if need be.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2006, 10:34:07 AM by Mitch »

Offline ghellquist

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #40 on: June 14, 2006, 01:19:56 PM »

What is a V3, why is it necessary with a 722? The mic preamps, and A to D convertors in the 722 are supposedly top notch.

The preamps and AD are indeed really good, those people with V3 simply are addicted to the distortion it introduces. They are so used to that distorted sound that they think everything else is bad. Most of them believe that you have to set the levels so they get into the red. Instead when using the 722 set the levels so that the yellow Led-s flicker and you never get Red. Then post-process the files in your PC increasing the volume. At the same time add compression or whatever you want to have, the clean signal gives you a lot of options.

Personally I like it clean as I record only acoustical music, symphony orchestras , choirs and that kind of stuff.

I think most of the people using V3-s has not really tested going direct in to the 722, they are too prejudiced. And by the way, they are all recording shows going through crappy PA speakers anyway. (Did I get people upset enough -- could you show some A/B comparison files? ) !!

Gunnar

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #41 on: June 14, 2006, 01:43:07 PM »
What is a V3, why is it necessary with a 722? The mic preamps, and A to D convertors in the 722 are supposedly top notch.

A V3 is a preamp and ADC.  Some people prefer its preamps to the 722, and some prefer its ADC to the 722.  (Obviously not Gunnar.)  Others prefer the V3 pre but the 722 ADC, and still others the 722 pre and ADC.  Good thing we have lots of gear to choose from so we may each choose gear that pleases our own ears.  :)
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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #42 on: June 14, 2006, 06:21:36 PM »
i got about 6.5 hrs on my 722 running mic-in, low gain, phantom on, BUT i didnt have the backlight on most of the time, im running the test again now w/ backlight on to see :) and levels were set to near-concert levels :)

and FWIW, this is w/ a 6000mah battery
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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #43 on: June 14, 2006, 06:23:20 PM »

What is a V3, why is it necessary with a 722? The mic preamps, and A to D convertors in the 722 are supposedly top notch.

The preamps and AD are indeed really good, those people with V3 simply are addicted to the distortion it introduces. They are so used to that distorted sound that they think everything else is bad. Most of them believe that you have to set the levels so they get into the red. Instead when using the 722 set the levels so that the yellow Led-s flicker and you never get Red. Then post-process the files in your PC increasing the volume. At the same time add compression or whatever you want to have, the clean signal gives you a lot of options.

Personally I like it clean as I record only acoustical music, symphony orchestras , choirs and that kind of stuff.

I think most of the people using V3-s has not really tested going direct in to the 722, they are too prejudiced. And by the way, they are all recording shows going through crappy PA speakers anyway. (Did I get people upset enough -- could you show some A/B comparison files? ) !!

Gunnar

actually, youre right, i havent ran straight mic in to the 722 yet, BUT its because A. i didnt sell my v3 yet, so why not run the per of the grace and the ad of the 722, and B. because i wanted to see what all the hype is about

lemme tell you what, i love the grace pre>722 ad sound tho :)

to be fair i do have to run 722 mic-in sometime soon, prolly for crowes/DBT/RRFB next sunday :)
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Offline ghellquist

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #44 on: June 15, 2006, 12:45:01 PM »
Sorry, yeasterday was a bad day in many respects. This was reflected in my posts which was perhaps not quite, let us say, balanced.

Anyway, I like the 722 pre and AD enough to recommend anyone to run that directly. It is a bit odd that so many people assume that you really need a V3 to run a 722. There is after all quite a bit of extra hassle in carrying the extra weight and so on.

What I have found is that the 722 sounds really good, as long as I use it the way it is intended. I have the limiter on to avoid hard clipping but stays clear from invocing it. The way to do that is run at a low enough level, blinking yellow lights and never a red light. There is ample room down to the noise floor of the unit and I stay well away from the effects the limiter has on the sound. At home I transferr the files to my program and "master" it. Basically I cut things up into tracks, raises the volume a bit and adds a bit of EQ and compression. This allows much better control on levels than can ever be attained at location.

Gunnar


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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #45 on: June 15, 2006, 06:19:36 PM »
Sorry, yeasterday was a bad day in many respects. This was reflected in my posts which was perhaps not quite, let us say, balanced.

Anyway, I like the 722 pre and AD enough to recommend anyone to run that directly. It is a bit odd that so many people assume that you really need a V3 to run a 722. There is after all quite a bit of extra hassle in carrying the extra weight and so on.

What I have found is that the 722 sounds really good, as long as I use it the way it is intended. I have the limiter on to avoid hard clipping but stays clear from invocing it. The way to do that is run at a low enough level, blinking yellow lights and never a red light. There is ample room down to the noise floor of the unit and I stay well away from the effects the limiter has on the sound. At home I transferr the files to my program and "master" it. Basically I cut things up into tracks, raises the volume a bit and adds a bit of EQ and compression. This allows much better control on levels than can ever be attained at location.

Gunnar



I've had great results with KM 184s run directly into the 722. I set rhe meter ballistics to VU and Peak. I get red LEDs occasionally, but only the -12 Db, and the -8 Db LEDs. As long as the limiters only kick in during the loudest of crescendos, I'm good to go.

Mitch

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #46 on: June 15, 2006, 06:36:17 PM »
i got another 6.75 hrs out of a 6000mah battery, phantom on, backlight on lowest setting, mic-in, gain on low, and peaking at -12db or a bit higher w/ the tv/music on

testing a 6800mah battery this weekend :)
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Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #47 on: June 26, 2006, 09:24:26 PM »
What is a V3, why is it necessary with a 722? The mic preamps, and A to D convertors in the 722 are supposedly top notch.

Yes, they are supposed to be top notch.   But my ears tell me that the 722 mic pre is a little bit bloated.  I prefer the V3 preamp.  I do prefer the 722 ADC.

Another reason for the V3 (instead of just getting a V2) is that I can put out an independent 16 bit feed for patchers.  The 722 will only source the rate that it is recording.


Sorry I didn't reply sooner, I lost track of this thread.
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Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #48 on: June 26, 2006, 09:32:53 PM »
The preamps and AD are indeed really good, those people with V3 simply are addicted to the distortion it introduces. They are so used to that distorted sound that they think everything else is bad. Most of them believe that you have to set the levels so they get into the red. Instead when using the 722 set the levels so that the yellow Led-s flicker and you never get Red. Then post-process the files in your PC increasing the volume. At the same time add compression or whatever you want to have, the clean signal gives you a lot of options.

Personally I like it clean as I record only acoustical music, symphony orchestras , choirs and that kind of stuff.

I think most of the people using V3-s has not really tested going direct in to the 722, they are too prejudiced. And by the way, they are all recording shows going through crappy PA speakers anyway. (Did I get people upset enough -- could you show some A/B comparison files? ) !!

Gunnar

Are you trolling or do you really believe what you posted?

I've run 722 mic pre and V3>722 extensively using KM143, KM140, and DPA4023.   I prefer the clean sound of the V3 to the slightly bloated sound I get with the 722.  If you record accoustic guitar, it may not be an issue for you.  For Mule or Phil, or anything else with expansive low frequencies, the V3 preamp sounds better to me on every playback system I've tried.
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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #49 on: June 27, 2006, 07:38:39 AM »
I take issue with the statement that anyone who uses the V3 over the 722 has no experience or is a fan of distortion when infact many members here have extensive experience running tests.  It seems that lately there are more posts like this that are intentionally dismissive or demeaning and yet so easily disproven with even the most cursory use of the seach function.  But I guess really smart people can't be bothered to review the previous threads.
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Offline Trevor A

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #50 on: June 27, 2006, 10:08:04 AM »
Back on the topic of battery longevity, has anyone had
batteries that lost longevity or went dead after just a few
uses?

I reported that I got almost 5 hours with the stock 4500maH
battery that came with my 722 and over 10 hours with a
6800maH battery at 24/96 with km140's with no backlight, but
since then the 4500maH battery has gone completely dead and
I only get about 3 hours on the 6800maH...

Anyone know what went wrong?
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Offline ghellquist

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #51 on: June 27, 2006, 03:01:22 PM »
I recently ran 4th row center for two concerts of the same program, from the same seat, same height, but, two different nights (back to back). The pa was left alone (not broken down) between the different nights. The music was acoustic, with light PA support.
One with the 4022's > V3 @2496 > 722
the other as 4022's > 722 @ 2496

The 4022's > 722 has a layer of mud over it that the 44022's > V3> 722 does not have.

The 722 is adequate as a stand alone machine, but, really not what tweaks my nipples without a quality mic pre in front of it.

Moke,
   is there any way you could publish two short snippets from same part of the two concerts for the rest of us to hear? I am willing to be convinced, but I have heard no evidence so far. And my 722 sounds good in my ears, no mud in the bass as you describe it, so I am quite surprised about the description.

If possible I would really like to hear the material, if only 10 seconds or so from each, preferrably without any postprocessing.

Or if anyone else could provide some other examples, preferrably the non-processed version direct from the machine.

Or if you cannot do that, could you at least tell at what peak level the material is. My clear suspicion is that the AD in the 722 does not take nicely to overload. It is also confirmed that some software versions of the high-pass filters did not take well to overload and could sound real bad when hit with too strong signals. I cannot say I like the sound of the limiter either, and that kicks in at about -6dB so you should stay well below that with the 722 to make good recordings - that is blinking yellow lights and never any red and then get the level up in postprocessing. The recording would be peaks at -10dB or less. That is the way I run the machine and for me it sounds quite good.

Gunnar

Offline WiFiJeff

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #52 on: June 27, 2006, 04:41:48 PM »
My clear suspicion is that the AD in the 722 does not take nicely to overload. It is also confirmed that some software versions of the high-pass filters did not take well to overload and could sound real bad when hit with too strong signals. I cannot say I like the sound of the limiter either, and that kicks in at about -6dB so you should stay well below that with the 722 to make good recordings - that is blinking yellow lights and never any red and then get the level up in postprocessing. The recording would be peaks at -10dB or less. That is the way I run the machine and for me it sounds quite good.

Gunnar

I generally run my 722 to peak two or three red lights in, even an occassional brief blink of the input peak overload red light on the left is not fatal, and I can usually get the artists to give me a good loudness check ahead of time since I don't stealth the 722 (yet).  That said, your suspicion about overload is correct.  The one time I ran a tad too hot, it gave me really nasty noise, while the same overal levels for the same kind of music (piano and strings) from an R1 or M1 would have no audible clipping.  The Wavelab "DeClicker" plugin cleaned it up nicely, thanks be.

Jeff

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #53 on: June 27, 2006, 06:54:37 PM »
VERY helpful page on how to make a battery sled for the 722, which sounds MUCH more reliable than most of the L or M series batteries that we have been using on the back of the 722 :) and the place to get everything :)

now all i need is a couple of 4000mah 12v NIMH batts and toddr or someone to wire up the batt power cable :)
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #54 on: June 27, 2006, 07:03:24 PM »
VERY helpful page on how to make a battery sled for the 722, which sounds MUCH more reliable than most of the L or M series batteries that we have been using on the back of the 722 :) and the place to get everything :)

now all i need is a couple of 4000mah 12v NIMH batts and toddr or someone to wire up the batt power cable :)

link
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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #55 on: June 27, 2006, 07:07:42 PM »
VERY helpful page on how to make a battery sled for the 722, which sounds MUCH more reliable than most of the L or M series batteries that we have been using on the back of the 722 :) and the place to get everything :)

now all i need is a couple of 4000mah 12v NIMH batts and toddr or someone to wire up the batt power cable :)

link

oh yeah, that would help :P 8)

http://www.uwm.edu/~type/audio-reports/BatteryPack_NiMH_722/Battery10KaHr_722_744.htm
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Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #56 on: June 27, 2006, 07:13:08 PM »
Or if anyone else could provide some other examples, preferrably the non-processed version direct from the machine.

Gunnar

I can provide samples of KM140 and KM143 directly into the 722 if you are interested.  PM me an FTP logon and I'll upload them.  I happen to have some here that I uploaded for someone else.

FWIW, in my case the levels are generally conservatively below peak except when I misjudged the opening levels or when running low profile and the PA got louder.  I usually keep the 722 line level just below the point where the peak margin indicator illuminates.  I do not run the limiter or the HPF on the 722 so this is as pure a signal to the ADC as possible.  I do use the 722 ADC, not the V3 ADC because I think the 722 ADC sounds best.  I do no post processing of the 24-bit files.

What I hear in the 722 tapes I would not describe as mud but it doesn't seem as clear as the V3 and seems accentuated while the V3 signal seems more flat.

Moke, it looks like you ran that comp using the digital out for the V3?  Did you try the V3 line out to the 722?  If you ran the digital out of the V3, then your comp does not really isolate teh 722 mic preamp for comparison.  Sorry I can't offer a heads up comp.  My comparison was across a couple dozen sets in a variety of venues using different mics so I had to go on an accumulated impression.

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Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: 722 battery longevity?
« Reply #57 on: June 27, 2006, 09:19:17 PM »
mic pre comp....
yes, this is one of the first times for me using the V3 as a digitizing front end, since I went high-res. I usually run a-out of the V3->recorder. not this time though.

So what was your thought V3ADC vs 722ADC?   I'm wondering if you have a preference between the two if it isn't too early.
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