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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: ts on March 07, 2007, 01:57:08 PM

Title: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: ts on March 07, 2007, 01:57:08 PM
Last night I had a guy tell me that Primo also made and still makes the caps for the 700's. This true? I knew they made the CP1 and CP2 caps for the 100/300's, but not the CP701, CP702's.
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: Church-Audio on March 07, 2007, 02:08:46 PM
Last night I had a guy tell me that Primo also made and still makes the caps for the 700's. This true? I knew they made the CP1 and CP2 caps for the 100/300's, but not the CP701, CP702's.

The capsules used for the Nak mics were
EM-21, EM-23, EM-68 AND EM-135

These have also been used by TOA, TEAC, CROWN, Audio Technica and a few other brands including Pearl electronics.

http://www.primomic.com/
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: bluegrass_brad on March 07, 2007, 02:15:30 PM
Just to clarify that a little.  They were used by the cheap japanese mic company Pearl, not the high end Swedish company Pearl.
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: Church-Audio on March 07, 2007, 02:21:08 PM
Just to clarify that a little.  They were used by the cheap japanese mic company Pearl, not the high end Swedish company Pearl.

Yes the cheap Japanese company that actually made some good microphones.. The swedish company I am not 100% sure about I know there high end mics are very good though.

Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: bluegrass_brad on March 07, 2007, 02:30:12 PM
The Swedish company makes incredible mics.  Ive used some of their LD mics for a few things and they are very detailed and quiet. 
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: ts on March 07, 2007, 02:33:09 PM
Any of those caps for the 700's/ My original question.
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: larrysellers on March 09, 2007, 02:50:39 PM
I lifted this from a datheads post from about 5 years ago. It is answering a question with a question but it does provide some info. Very interesting...hope this sheds a little light.

From: Tom Haughton <unbroken@comcast.net>
Subject: nak. cm-50 info?
Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 21:56:40 -0400

  I recently acquired a nak. cm-50 miniature mic w/cp-3 capsule. The capsule
itself measures 1/2" dia. and 17/32" long when removed from the "barrel"
(entire cap/barrel combo is 1 5/16" lg.) I am aware that nakamichi made a
cp-3 capsule, I thought for the cm-300, but that's a larger diameter capsule
than this, is it not? It measures the same diameter as the cp-701 omni cap
for my brother's cm-700s, and would appear to be of that lineage, but I
thought the 700 caps were designated " cp-701, cp-702," etc...It has a 6'
cable from the mic to a combined battery holder/electronic packege/1/4" plug
ass'y...and has a mic clip mounted on a tie clip. It appears for all the
world to be a factory nak stealth mic! I've tested it, and it is certainly a
full-range mic, noticeably warmer and smoother that an a-t stereo mic, the
only thing I have to compare it with, and seemingly an omni cap, though I've
heard the cp-3 cap described as both a hypercardioid and "super-omni
pinpoint" mic...what gives? any help with any of these questions would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Tom
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: Church-Audio on March 09, 2007, 02:54:58 PM
I lifted this from a datheads post from about 5 years ago. It is answering a question with a question but it does provide some info. Very interesting...hope this sheds a little light.

From: Tom Haughton <unbroken@comcast.net>
Subject: nak. cm-50 info?
Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 21:56:40 -0400

  I recently acquired a nak. cm-50 miniature mic w/cp-3 capsule. The capsule
itself measures 1/2" dia. and 17/32" long when removed from the "barrel"
(entire cap/barrel combo is 1 5/16" lg.) I am aware that nakamichi made a
cp-3 capsule, I thought for the cm-300, but that's a larger diameter capsule
than this, is it not? It measures the same diameter as the cp-701 omni cap
for my brother's cm-700s, and would appear to be of that lineage, but I
thought the 700 caps were designated " cp-701, cp-702," etc...It has a 6'
cable from the mic to a combined battery holder/electronic packege/1/4" plug
ass'y...and has a mic clip mounted on a tie clip. It appears for all the
world to be a factory nak stealth mic! I've tested it, and it is certainly a
full-range mic, noticeably warmer and smoother that an a-t stereo mic, the
only thing I have to compare it with, and seemingly an omni cap, though I've
heard the cp-3 cap described as both a hypercardioid and "super-omni
pinpoint" mic...what gives? any help with any of these questions would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Tom


That capsule the same ones I just sold is a very directional "omni" cap it uses a phase plug in the front of it. I assume because this capsule actually started out as a measurement microphone that Primo made it more directional in an attempt to reduce the impact of the surroundings on the acoustic measurement. Thats all I can say for sure. I would say that all of the capsules used in Nak mics were primo mics and none of them were OEM. At one time or another all of these primo caps were for sale to the general public.
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: Church-Audio on March 09, 2007, 02:55:45 PM
Any of those caps for the 700's/ My original question.

If you show me a picture of the back side of the 700 series capsule I can tell you 100% for sure if Primo still makes it.


Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: larrysellers on March 09, 2007, 03:25:58 PM
So, it is possible that the same cap used in the cm-50 was also the omni for the 700 series?
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: audBall on March 09, 2007, 03:37:26 PM

 I would say that all of the capsules used in Nak mics were primo mics and none of them were OEM.


Just to clarify a bit, the CM-1000 mics and capsules are the only ones in the line to have been built entirely by Nakamichi.  Of course, they're the only Naks that are actually numbered as well.  Apparently, some of the 100/300/700 capsules were built by Nakamichi as well.  This is all according to Stephen Sank.  For the latters, I do not have a clue as to how to tell the difference between Nak's build vs. Primo's. 

Out of my four 700 capsules (2 card, 2 omni), one of them looks to be different than the others (according to the back of the capsule). 

I can take pictures when I get home from work if there's interest.
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: Church-Audio on March 09, 2007, 04:04:18 PM

 I would say that all of the capsules used in Nak mics were primo mics and none of them were OEM.


Just to clarify a bit, the CM-1000 mics and capsules are the only ones in the line to have been built entirely by Nakamichi.  Of course, they're the only Naks that are actually numbered as well.  Apparently, some of the 100/300/700 capsules were built by Nakamichi as well.  This is all according to Stephen Sank.  For the latters, I do not have a clue as to how to tell the difference between Nak's build vs. Primo's. 

Out of my four 700 capsules (2 card, 2 omni), one of them looks to be different than the others (according to the back of the capsule). 

I can take pictures when I get home from work if there's interest.

I would like to see pictures of the Nak 1000 capsule and any of the Nak capsules you have. Just so I can figure a few things out.

Thanks...

Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: audBall on March 09, 2007, 04:16:13 PM
I found some pics that I took of the CM-1000/CP-101(card cap):
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,67635.msg909501.html#msg909501

I'll take come pics of the 700 caps when I get home...
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: Church-Audio on March 09, 2007, 04:20:39 PM
I found some pics that I took of the CM-1000/CP-101(card cap):
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,67635.msg909501.html#msg909501

I'll take come pics of the 700 caps when I get home...

That NAK 1000 cap is made by Primo its an OEM version of the em 23 cardioid cap they changed a few things but there is one dead give away the phase plug in front of the capsule is 100% primo engineering. Primo OEM'S things for everyone at one time or another this Nak 1000 cap has a gold sputtered diaphragm Primo never made that for the general public but they did make it for Nak.
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: audBall on March 09, 2007, 04:23:26 PM
I found some pics that I took of the CM-1000/CP-101(card cap):
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,67635.msg909501.html#msg909501

I'll take come pics of the 700 caps when I get home...

That NAK 1000 cap is made by Primo its an OEM version of the em 23 cardioid cap they changed a few things but there is one dead give away the phase plug in front of the capsule is 100% primo engineering.


There's two different caps in those pictures....the top is from a cm300.  The bottom two are from the 1000.  Is that the one you're referring to?


edit- The em23 is clearly the cm300 line of capsule.  And therefore, is an electret.  The 1k caps are not electret.  In shape/size they appear to be similar to the 300s (and the 300s do appparently fit onto the 1k bodies) but are indeed different.
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: Church-Audio on March 09, 2007, 04:33:40 PM
I found some pics that I took of the CM-1000/CP-101(card cap):
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,67635.msg909501.html#msg909501

I'll take come pics of the 700 caps when I get home...

That NAK 1000 cap is made by Primo its an OEM version of the em 23 cardioid cap they changed a few things but there is one dead give away the phase plug in front of the capsule is 100% primo engineering.


There's two different caps in those pictures....the top is from a cm300.  The bottom two are from the 1000.  Is that the one you're referring to?

They are both made by Primo the one pictured for the Nak 1000 was never for sale to the public it was strictly OEM for Nak I know this because the front of the capsule for the Nak1000 that is pictured has the same phase plug as the large Primo measurement capsule that is used in Simpson Decibel meters.  So they are made by the same company. As primo has a patent on that phase plug.
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: audBall on March 09, 2007, 04:51:43 PM
Interesting...
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: Church-Audio on March 09, 2007, 05:23:43 PM
Interesting...

Primo is a Japan company with very strong ties to other Japanese microphone companies, they have done OEM capsules for a lot of products. They are no longer on the top of there game because of the Chinese capsules but at one time the quality and price were very hard to beat. I have about 3,000 Primo capsules. None of the ones used in the Nak mics but, I have these little omni capsules that have a frequency response from 20hz to 40khz. And they handle 120db they are the EM125 capsule. I have always liked Primo capsules. They are one of the few companies that actually had real specs for there products. And the build quality is quite good. The Crown CM 311 headset considered by many to be one of the best cardioid headsets for rock and roll Uses the Primo em23 capsule. And to this day Crown still uses primo capsules. For mics like there PZM mics and other boundary mics AT uses a few different Primo capsules as well.
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: audBall on March 09, 2007, 05:48:53 PM
As promised....

The cards are on the left, the omnis are on the right. 

Notice the color difference in my cards (brass ring vs. silver, black plastic vs. grey)

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a319/audioballer/Mics/nak700caps.jpg)
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: Church-Audio on March 10, 2007, 02:06:56 AM
As promised....

The cards are on the left, the omnis are on the right. 

Notice the color difference in my cards (brass ring vs. silver, black plastic vs. grey)

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a319/audioballer/Mics/nak700caps.jpg)

You can see here that Primo simply put a back chamber on the omni mics and left the backplate open on the Cardioid mics. They use a simple gasket approach to allow the tailoring of the front to back ratio of the capsule. This is one tweak that can be done to this mics to alter the directional characteristics of this capsule. By tightening the plastic screw on the back of the capsule you can infect control the back venting of the back plate thus control the compliance of the diaphragm. This tweak can allow for more bottom end or less bottom end depending on how "open" the screw is.



Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: audBall on March 10, 2007, 07:26:52 AM
You can see here that Primo simply put a back chamber on the omni mics and left the backplate open on the Cardioid mics. They use a simple gasket approach to allow the tailoring of the front to back ratio of the capsule. This is one tweak that can be done to this mics to alter the directional characteristics of this capsule. By tightening the plastic screw on the back of the capsule you can infect control the back venting of the back plate thus control the compliance of the diaphragm. This tweak can allow for more bottom end or less bottom end depending on how "open" the screw is.


Chris, this is all great info! 


When you say 'plastic screw' are you referring to the outer ring with the holes on either side?  The two holes kinda remind me of the screw-back watches and their special 'screwdrivers'.
 
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: Church-Audio on March 10, 2007, 08:33:39 AM
You can see here that Primo simply put a back chamber on the omni mics and left the backplate open on the Cardioid mics. They use a simple gasket approach to allow the tailoring of the front to back ratio of the capsule. This is one tweak that can be done to this mics to alter the directional characteristics of this capsule. By tightening the plastic screw on the back of the capsule you can infect control the back venting of the back plate thus control the compliance of the diaphragm. This tweak can allow for more bottom end or less bottom end depending on how "open" the screw is.


Chris, this is all great info! 


When you say 'plastic screw' are you referring to the outer ring with the holes on either side?  The two holes kinda remind me of the screw-back watches and their special 'screwdrivers'.
 

The plastic part with the 4 holes in it that unscrews is the part that can be adjusted.
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: ts on March 27, 2007, 08:24:51 AM
You can see here that Primo simply put a back chamber on the omni mics and left the backplate open on the Cardioid mics. They use a simple gasket approach to allow the tailoring of the front to back ratio of the capsule. This is one tweak that can be done to this mics to alter the directional characteristics of this capsule. By tightening the plastic screw on the back of the capsule you can infect control the back venting of the back plate thus control the compliance of the diaphragm. This tweak can allow for more bottom end or less bottom end depending on how "open" the screw is.


Chris, this is all great info! 


When you say 'plastic screw' are you referring to the outer ring with the holes on either side?  The two holes kinda remind me of the screw-back watches and their special 'screwdrivers'.
 

The plastic part with the 4 holes in it that unscrews is the part that can be adjusted.

Chris, now that you have the pics. Are these caps available from Primo? Part number?
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: Church-Audio on March 27, 2007, 08:35:52 AM
You can see here that Primo simply put a back chamber on the omni mics and left the backplate open on the Cardioid mics. They use a simple gasket approach to allow the tailoring of the front to back ratio of the capsule. This is one tweak that can be done to this mics to alter the directional characteristics of this capsule. By tightening the plastic screw on the back of the capsule you can infect control the back venting of the back plate thus control the compliance of the diaphragm. This tweak can allow for more bottom end or less bottom end depending on how "open" the screw is.


Chris, this is all great info! 


When you say 'plastic screw' are you referring to the outer ring with the holes on either side?  The two holes kinda remind me of the screw-back watches and their special 'screwdrivers'.
 

The plastic part with the 4 holes in it that unscrews is the part that can be adjusted.

Chris, now that you have the pics. Are these caps available from Primo? Part number?
EM-21
 
 
The cardioid capsule is the EM-21 the omni capsule is the EM-23 go to http://www.primomic.com/ or Call
1-972.548.9807 you can order the parts direct from them $50- If I remember correctly.

Chris
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: ts on March 27, 2007, 08:41:46 AM
You can see here that Primo simply put a back chamber on the omni mics and left the backplate open on the Cardioid mics. They use a simple gasket approach to allow the tailoring of the front to back ratio of the capsule. This is one tweak that can be done to this mics to alter the directional characteristics of this capsule. By tightening the plastic screw on the back of the capsule you can infect control the back venting of the back plate thus control the compliance of the diaphragm. This tweak can allow for more bottom end or less bottom end depending on how "open" the screw is.


Chris, this is all great info! 


When you say 'plastic screw' are you referring to the outer ring with the holes on either side?  The two holes kinda remind me of the screw-back watches and their special 'screwdrivers'.
 

The plastic part with the 4 holes in it that unscrews is the part that can be adjusted.

Chris, now that you have the pics. Are these caps available from Primo? Part number?
EM-21
 
 
The cardioid capsule is the EM-21 the omni capsule is the EM-23 go to http://www.primomic.com/ or Call
1-972.548.9807 you can order the parts direct from them $50- If I remember correctly.

Chris


I think those are the CM300 caps. I'm looking for the CM700 caps. Much smaller. Audball posted pics.
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: Church-Audio on March 27, 2007, 08:46:02 AM
You can see here that Primo simply put a back chamber on the omni mics and left the backplate open on the Cardioid mics. They use a simple gasket approach to allow the tailoring of the front to back ratio of the capsule. This is one tweak that can be done to this mics to alter the directional characteristics of this capsule. By tightening the plastic screw on the back of the capsule you can infect control the back venting of the back plate thus control the compliance of the diaphragm. This tweak can allow for more bottom end or less bottom end depending on how "open" the screw is.


Chris, this is all great info! 


When you say 'plastic screw' are you referring to the outer ring with the holes on either side?  The two holes kinda remind me of the screw-back watches and their special 'screwdrivers'.
 

The plastic part with the 4 holes in it that unscrews is the part that can be adjusted.

Chris, now that you have the pics. Are these caps available from Primo? Part number?
EM-21
 
 
The cardioid capsule is the EM-21 the omni capsule is the EM-23 go to http://www.primomic.com/ or Call
1-972.548.9807 you can order the parts direct from them $50- If I remember correctly.

Chris


I think those are the CM300 caps. I'm looking for the CM700 caps. Much smaller. Audball posted pics.

Measure the diameter of the capsule and tell me what it is. I dont have a 700 here. But I am pretty sure they are the same size? or Am I wrong?
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: ts on March 27, 2007, 09:11:16 AM
You can see here that Primo simply put a back chamber on the omni mics and left the backplate open on the Cardioid mics. They use a simple gasket approach to allow the tailoring of the front to back ratio of the capsule. This is one tweak that can be done to this mics to alter the directional characteristics of this capsule. By tightening the plastic screw on the back of the capsule you can infect control the back venting of the back plate thus control the compliance of the diaphragm. This tweak can allow for more bottom end or less bottom end depending on how "open" the screw is.


Chris, this is all great info! 


When you say 'plastic screw' are you referring to the outer ring with the holes on either side?  The two holes kinda remind me of the screw-back watches and their special 'screwdrivers'.
 

The plastic part with the 4 holes in it that unscrews is the part that can be adjusted.

Chris, now that you have the pics. Are these caps available from Primo? Part number?
EM-21
 
 
The cardioid capsule is the EM-21 the omni capsule is the EM-23 go to http://www.primomic.com/ or Call
1-972.548.9807 you can order the parts direct from them $50- If I remember correctly.

Chris


I think those are the CM300 caps. I'm looking for the CM700 caps. Much smaller. Audball posted pics.

Measure the diameter of the capsule and tell me what it is. I dont have a 700 here. But I am pretty sure they are the same size? or Am I wrong?


They are def different. I think the CM700 dia. is 1/2 in. and longer in length than the 300 cap.
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: Roving Sign on March 27, 2007, 09:20:29 AM
I had speculated in another thread that these might be the 700 caps

http://www.primomic.com/products/cm-23b5.htm

Chris the 700s look kind of like a measurement mic...tapered tips like earthworks...
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: Church-Audio on March 27, 2007, 10:57:24 AM
I had speculated in another thread that these might be the 700 caps

http://www.primomic.com/products/cm-23b5.htm

Chris the 700s look kind of like a measurement mic...tapered tips like earthworks...

Oh ok I know what your talking about now. I did find out what capsule that was it was a capsule that Primo used as a measuring mic the one you linked too is similar but this one is the exact one used for the omni capsule.


Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: audBall on March 27, 2007, 11:03:19 AM
Do you have a part number for those, Chris?  It appears that those might be the same in diameter, but just a little longer from front to back....but that could just be the pics.  I wonder if the thread patterns are the same.
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: Church-Audio on March 27, 2007, 11:09:50 AM
Do you have a part number for those, Chris?  It appears that those might be the same in diameter, but just a little longer from front to back....but that could just be the pics.  I wonder if the thread patterns are the same.

I will look for it.
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: ts on March 27, 2007, 11:55:36 AM
looks like those be the right ones. but looks can be, well.....
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: Church-Audio on March 27, 2007, 01:59:15 PM
looks like those be the right ones. but looks can be, well.....

Trust me its the same capsule.. :)
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: ts on March 29, 2007, 07:54:04 AM
looks like those be the right ones. but looks can be, well.....

Trust me its the same capsule.. :)


Did you ever come up with a part #. That cap you pictured is not on the Primo website.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: Church-Audio on March 29, 2007, 08:24:55 AM
looks like those be the right ones. but looks can be, well.....

Trust me its the same capsule.. :)


Did you ever come up with a part #. That cap you pictured is not on the Primo website.

Thanks.

6-111693 there was a guy on eBay selling them for $20 each.. You might still be able to find him and ask if he has any more.
Primo does not sell that part anymore to my knowledge.


This is the ebay auction where I saw the mics the guy who runs this ebay store said he had more. Dont look at the mic body the capsule is the same as what is on the cp3
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Primo-CM4052PMI4-Precision-Microphone_W0QQitemZ230101060952QQihZ013QQcategoryZ50590QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: Roving Sign on March 29, 2007, 08:42:23 AM
Maybe thats the same cap used in the mysterious Nak CM-50?

http://www.nakmics.com/nak-cm50.htm

Chris - is that the same cap you used for that set of primo stealth mics you just sold not too long ago?
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: Church-Audio on March 29, 2007, 08:45:15 AM
Maybe thats the same cap used in the mysterious Nak CM-50?

http://www.nakmics.com/nak-cm50.htm

Chris - is that the same cap you used for that set of primo stealth mics you just sold not too long ago?

Yes that is the same capsule hell its the same everything :) Primo and Nak had a close relationship both companies from Japan.
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: Church-Audio on March 29, 2007, 08:46:00 AM
Maybe thats the same cap used in the mysterious Nak CM-50?

http://www.nakmics.com/nak-cm50.htm

Chris - is that the same cap you used for that set of primo stealth mics you just sold not too long ago?

Yep same cap same everything as the CP50.
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: ts on March 29, 2007, 10:13:10 AM
Even the same case as the CP3 and CP102. Thanks for all your help Chris.
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: nak700s on October 13, 2017, 02:55:12 PM
I stumbled on this thread through a google search for something loosely related.  Just want to say how much I enjoyed reading through it and gaining some info I didn't know about my beloved 700's.  Thank you Chris for so much useful information!

Sooooooo, any shot there are still CP-701 caps still available now?  I don't care what color they are or if they're Nakamichi or Primo, only that their fresh and good!
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: ts on October 14, 2017, 02:59:07 PM
Nope. We gave up on that a long time ago.....
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: nak700s on October 16, 2017, 12:54:39 PM
Nope. We gave up on that a long time ago.....

 :'(
Title: Re: Primo caps and Nakamichi 700's
Post by: nak700s on December 30, 2017, 02:05:48 PM
Does anyone know the difference between a cp-702 and a cp-5?  Both are omni, but are they the same???