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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: sunjan on January 14, 2010, 05:37:11 PM
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The most interesting of the bunch:
http://www.tascam.com/products/dr-680.html
Can it give the R-44 a run for the money? Or even the Sound Devices gear?
TASCAM's DR-680 brings multi-channel portable recording within reach of any musician for polished live, location and surround recordings. Up to eight tracks can be recorded to solid-state SD card media at 96kHz/24-bit Broadcast WAV quality. Six mic inputs provide phantom power and 60dB of gain for great-sounding recordings with your condenser microphones. Record the six microphones along with a digital S/PDIF source for 8 track recording. Each mic input has a selectable low cut filter and analog limiter for optimal sound.
Inputs can be monitored using a built-in mixer with level and pan controls for each input. The stereo mixdown can even be recorded along with the six mics for quick stereo playback of the event. There's even a built-in speaker to check recordings without headphones.
In addition to WAV recording up to 96kHz, the DR-680 captures stereo audio at 192kHz/24-bit for audiophile-quality masters. The DR-680 records up to four channels of MP3 audio for web-ready recordings. Two of the recorders can be connected with a cascade cable for up to 16-track recording on battery power.
Features:
* 8-track portable recording
* Record eight individual inputs or six inputs plus a stereo mixdown
* Up to 96kHz/24-bit Broadcast WAV file resolution for 8 channels
* Stereo 192kHz/24-bit recording mode
* 4-channel MP3 recording
* Digital monitor mixing (level and pan) with recordable stereo mixdown
* Ideal for surround music and effects recording
* Cascade function for running two units together
* Pre-recording feature
* Auto-recording mode begins recording when the input reaches a certain level
* Mark function during recording/playback
* Edit functions such as divide and delete
* 128x64 backlit LCD display
* Powered through (8x) AA batteries or (included) PS-1225L adapter
* Records to SD/SDHC card media (not included)
Physical specifications:
* (6) mic pres with 60dB of gain and phantom power
* (4) XLR/1/4" (combi) mic/line inputs and (2) TRS 1/4" mic/line inputs
* Low cut filter and limiter on each input
* (6) RCA unbalanced line outputs
* S/PDIF digital in and out
* USB 2.0 (mini B) connection for computer
* Built-in speaker
* 1/4" stereo headphone output
* Included accessories: PS-1225L power supply, shoulder strap
* Dimensions: 7.95" W x 2.12" H x 6.93" D (202mm x 54mm x 176mm)
* Weight 2.65 lbs (1.2kg) without batteries
(http://www.tascam.com/i-3868-17-64-0-0E4E6BEB.jpg)
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I will probably be buying one depending on what the price point is. Was thinking about 788 but 6 large is a hard pill to swallow.
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When comparing with the R-44, apart from the Tascam model having more channels, it also claims to have proper (mixable/pannable) monitoring, which I'd rate as a big plus - that's always seemed to me to be the weakest point of the R-44 design.
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6 pre's? Am I crazy or do I only see 4?
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6 pre's? Am I crazy or do I only see 4?
4 XLR/1/4" combo inputs and 2 1/4" inputs = total of 6
There is also this sexy thing for only $5k
(http://www.tascam.com/i-3807-17-64-0-A60E7700.jpg)
http://www.tascam.com/products/hs-p82.html
TASCAM's HS-P82 offers 8 tracks of the highest quality recording, yet it's built for the rigors of location recording with reliable solid-state performance. The HS-P82 is built for location television and film production audio, with eight microphone inputs for big shoots or reality programs. The standard XLR microphone inputs include phantom power and analog limiting, with trims controlled from recessed front-panel controls. In addition to the eight individual tracks, a stereo mixdown can be recorded for instant use during editing.
Audio is recorded at up to 192kHz/24-bit WAV format to a pair of Compact Flash cards. This solid state media is completely reliable with no moving parts, and you can record to both cards simultaneously for extra security. The Broadcast WAV files include iXML metadata for quick import into nearly any video or audio editing system, either via the USB 2.0 connection or a standard card reader.
The HS-P82 offers several options for power. It runs on either AA or NP batteries, an included AC adapter, external DC input or a V-mount adapter for Endura batteries. An internal slate microphone is available for naming takes. Functions like a 5-second pre-record buffer, front panel lockout and headphone output alert signal further inspire confidence.
For high-resolution music recording, a set of AES/EBU connectors is available for attaching pedigree A/D converters and preamplifiers. SMPTE timecode in and out, video and word sync are provided. All of this is controlled from a color touchscreen interface which makes operation fast and simple.
The HS-P82 from TASCAM is built on 30 years of reliable field recording. See how affordable the state of the art can be with TASCAM's flagship production recorder, the HS-P82.
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So what does that mean? 1/4" can pass phantom power? Who knew? ;D
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So what does that mean? 1/4" can pass phantom power? Who knew? ;D
1/4" TRS can do phantom, 1/4" TS cannot.
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I'd be hard-pressed to justify or understand spending $5-6k on an 8-track recorder instead of just buying a MacBook pro and a multi-track interface for much less...you can have 16-32 tracks and you get a laptop to use for other stuff, as well as your post processing etc. I think the SD 7xx are great recorders but once they jumped from the 744 to the 788 (and the corresponding price jump as well), they lost me on the point of spending $6k compared to what you could get for the same $$ in the multi-track realm.
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A mod on Gearslutz says this is $999. No way. How can that be? Isn't that what HDP2's go for?
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-possibilities-acoustic-music-location-recording/457094-new-portable-multitrack-recorders-tascam.html
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There is also this sexy thing for only $5k
I checked street prices on this last night and it can be had for just over $4K.
http://www.google.com/products?hl=en&q=tascam+hs-p82+price&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=QL1PS4yaBdOdlAe83LCmCg&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=3&ved=0CCMQrQQwAg (http://www.google.com/products?hl=en&q=tascam+hs-p82+price&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=QL1PS4yaBdOdlAe83LCmCg&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=3&ved=0CCMQrQQwAg)
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A mod on Gearslutz says this is $999. No way. How can that be? Isn't that what HDP2's go for?
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-possibilities-acoustic-music-location-recording/457094-new-portable-multitrack-recorders-tascam.html
They're asking the same question I have for it - if it's only $1k, how good are the pre/AD on it? Certainly a 8-track recorder for $1k would be a great deal as long as they didn't overly cut corners to get the price there.
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Remember that 2 inputs are digital only, so really it's like an R44 with a pair of TRS inputs added. For a while the R44 was well under $1K, and its preamps are quite acceptable.
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Remember that 2 inputs are digital only, so really it's like an R44 with a pair of TRS inputs added. For a while the R44 was well under $1K, and its preamps are quite acceptable.
not exactly. because the pair of TRS inputs also have phantom power and a pre-amp behind them. so while the R44 has 4 channels of phantom/pre-amps, this new Tascam has 6 channels of phantom/pre-amps. The tascam website has a couple of very high resolution photos, so it's definitely 1/4" TRS inputs with phantom/pre-amps, and not 1/4" TS inputs.
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Remember that 2 inputs are digital only, so really it's like an R44 with a pair of TRS inputs added. For a while the R44 was well under $1K, and its preamps are quite acceptable.
not exactly. because the pair of TRS inputs also have phantom power and a pre-amp behind them. so while the R44 has 4 channels of phantom/pre-amps, this new Tascam has 6 channels of phantom/pre-amps. The tascam website has a couple of very high resolution photos, so it's definitely 1/4" TRS inputs with phantom/pre-amps, and not 1/4" TS inputs.
Right. My point was it only has 50% more preamps than the R44, not twice as many.
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Wow, that looks great!
I'm not sure I'd do enough 6ch or 8ch taping to justify it (or enough taping at all lately), so I probably won't ditch my R44 to get one. That said, I think this clearly is a jump up in functionality over the R44, and I'd be seriously considering it if I were in the market for a recorder, esp a multi-channel recorder.
2 more channels with integrated preamps and 4 more channels total is a pretty big step up IME. Same price as what I paid for my Oade R44 -- if it has good sounding preamps and doesn't seem like adding mods would be wanted/needed, that's a pretty good deal for all you get.
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Thats a very nice spec. I've been thinking about taking the plunge to an R-44 for a while now, if these are close to the price posted, I think I may have to take the plunge with this one.
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Just got a call back from Full Compass. This unit ships sometime in Feb. and they will be selling it at $945.00.
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Even though I rarely see myself using one as more than just a 4 channel unit, I like that it takes 8xAA rather than the 4xAA in the R44. Presumably, that should mean acceptable battery life for one pair of mics + board without needing an external supply.
Why no one makes a 4+ channel unit with an internal RC battery like the FR2LE is beyond me.
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Just got a call back from Full Compass. This unit ships sometime in Feb. and they will be selling it at $945.00.
I may have to give it a go. I also don't see me using 8 channels much but hell, can't hurt to have em :)
Gives me a good excuse to buy more mics too :-X
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Why no one makes a 4+ channel unit with an internal RC battery like the FR2LE is beyond me.
I expect it's for the same reason the FR2LE is one of the few, if not only 2 channel recorders using that internal powering setup. AAs are the most easily sourceable batteries in the world, so it makes sense that both audio recorders, as well as many of the P&S digital cameras, are made to run on them.
This new Tascam unit looks sweet!
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Why no one makes a 4+ channel unit with an internal RC battery like the FR2LE is beyond me.
I expect it's for the same reason the FR2LE is one of the few, if not only 2 channel recorders using that internal powering setup. AAs are the most easily sourceable batteries in the world, so it makes sense that both audio recorders, as well as many of the P&S digital cameras, are made to run on them.
The thing is, the FR2LE ships with a sled that lets you use 4xAAs in a pinch, so it's not as if you're locked out of AAs...but of course their capacity is no where near an RC pack (the equivalent of 6xCs).
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I'd be hard-pressed to justify or understand spending $5-6k on an 8-track recorder instead of just buying a MacBook pro and a multi-track interface for much less...you can have 16-32 tracks and you get a laptop to use for other stuff, as well as your post processing etc. I think the SD 7xx are great recorders but once they jumped from the 744 to the 788 (and the corresponding price jump as well), they lost me on the point of spending $6k compared to what you could get for the same $$ in the multi-track realm.
I generally agree with this. If you're doing micing of each instrument in the field for a band release or something of that nature where you'll do mixing of the peices in post, the most cost effective option is an interface and a laptop. There are "better" solutions from a reliability standpoint, but the best bang for buck ratio is a lappy and an 8+ ch interface.
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At this price, you can get 8 track recording on a rugid looking unit for just a bit more than you would spend getting two 96/24 handhelds (like my trust R-09hr), and pulling just four four tracks.
I'm going to follow this toy, because it's price is certainly right, but I'll let ya'll pull the trigger first and report back! ;D
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I'm going to follow this toy, because it's price is certainly right, but I'll let ya'll pull the trigger first and report back! ;D
:lol:
For a grand, I wonder what's wrong with it. (and yes I understand "wrong" is a value judgement)
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Bet you're gonna see a bunch of R-44 pop up for sale now. I know I'm thinking about selling mine.
The "wrong" thing I see is there is no way to sync it with any other decks just like the R-44. BUT, you do get more tracks on one deck. I guess that the ability to sync up word clocks is a big factor in price.
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Tascam seems to generally make good, reliable products. This definately looks like a great value for the money.
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Right. My point was it only has 50% more preamps than the R44, not twice as many.
Yes but it has 8 inputs overall - I'm assuming the 8 channels are: 4x XLR, 2x 1/4"TRS, and the spidf input? There's a lot of options with this - sbd feed, 4-6 mics, digital in from an external AD. That's a world of difference to me over a 4 channel recorder. I can't see spending $4-$6k on a recorder with 8 inputs but assuming the quality and functionality of this thing pans out, I can see spending $1K and think on the surface it sound like a pretty good deal. It's amazing how fast the world of portable recorders is evolving.
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Tascam seems to generally make good, reliable products. This definately looks like a great value for the money.
I've had a DAP1, and three DA-20's that disagree.
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I can't speak to the DA-20's but my DA-P1 has never given me any issues what so ever. Still running flawlessly after all these years.
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Note that it operates on the basis of having channel selector buttons, and a single value-select knob, rather than the R-44's individual knobs-per-channel. In fact off the top of my head this is the first unit to take that approach. That of course makes for a more compact design and may well be cheaper to make, but in use, do people think they'll have a problem with that approach? Eg you see channels 2 and 4 overloading, but you can't just grab their faders and adjust at the same time - first select 2, adjust, then select 4 and adjust.
Also the knob appears to be push-to-select (more or less required by this kind of design). I wonder therefore whether having selected the level you want, and then you push to select it, whether the transition is smooth or sudden? I guess it presupposes you'll be working at conservative levels and 24 bits and not worrying too much about getting things dead right and gain-riding during the show.
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Tascam seems to generally make good, reliable products. This definately looks like a great value for the money.
I've had a DAP1, and three DA-20's that disagree.
isn't moke on the same list of people who diagree with the notion tascam = quality?
The parting shot on mine about what is "wrong" with it could be that the preamps are bad (the PMD-620), or when you adjust the volume nob, it drops samples (ala the R-44). It could resample the digital input or not sync all of it's channels to an external clock (The R-4 among others). All sorts of shit could be "wrong" depending on what you want/expect the hardware to do, or a minimum accepted performance level. It could be a sterling recorder that is perfect in every way, but $1k for 8 channels makes me wonder...
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The parting shot on mine about what is "wrong" with it could be that the preamps are bad (the PMD-620), or when you adjust the volume nob, it drops samples (ala the R-44). It could resample the digital input or not sync all of it's channels to an external clock (The R-4 among others). All sorts of shit could be "wrong" depending on what you want/expect the hardware to do, or a minimum accepted performance level. It could be a sterling recorder that is perfect in every way, but $1k for 8 channels makes me wonder...
I agree that there are quite a number of things we would like to have and that may not be implemented to our satisfaction with this unit (loss of signal during gain adjustments, not syncing the analog channels to the digital channels, etc). I guess we can only wait and see on that front. As to quality of the preamps, I expect that comparing/assuming something akin to the HD-P2 or DA-P1 would be the more likely reference point than the PMD-620. Not just since the latter is marantz not tascam, but since the tascam products are more in the pro/prosumer category and the 620 is more in the consumer category in my mind.
As to the quality vs price -- I'm still hopeful it doesn't mean bad quality just since the price is the same as for former 2ch and 4ch units. That's the way electronics go -- over time, the functionality or a given type of technology improves, but the cost stays the same (as opposed to the costs falling). Seems to be the way of the world with electronics whether its computers, audio/stereo receivers, tvs, dvd/blu-ray players, whatever. Why make the blu-ray player cheaper when you can throw in network connectivity and keep charging $200-250 for it? I'm hoping its this type of market activity at work, and not that they've made it 8ch, but made it all crappy.
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I can't speak to the DA-20's but my DA-P1 has never given me any issues what so ever. Still running flawlessly after all these years.
Buy a lottery ticket!
My DA-P1 was in the shop more than in the field - POS IMO.
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having owned a DA-P20 (remember those?) a DA-P1, a DA-20 and now my HD-P2
I won't hesitate buying another Tascam product when funds become available
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The DA-P1 had a nice feel to it - but the transport was less than reliable.
The DA-20 was a great deck, I had a Fostex D-5 and would sware by it - both where made by Pioneer though.
I would buy Tascam products again as DAT was not the most reliable format and the P1 was less reliable than most.
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having owned a DA-P20 (remember those?) a DA-P1, a DA-20 and now my HD-P2
I won't hesitate buying another Tascam product when funds become available
My P20 is still rolling after 20 years......
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The DR-680 web page doesn't mention any effects built in - which IMHO is good, except the R-44 effects include the vital (for me) MS stereo 'effect'. I do hope Tascam hasn't deemed that unnecessary as being able to connect a mid-side mic rig direct to such a device is very handy, and MS is (perhaps) more often used for location recording than in the studio - so location recording equipment should be able to support it.
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should be some pretty cheap hd-p2's around soon
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having owned a DA-P20 (remember those?) a DA-P1, a DA-20 and now my HD-P2
I won't hesitate buying another Tascam product when funds become available
My P20 is still rolling after 20 years......
;) ;D
should be some pretty cheap hd-p2's around soon
considering what I would get out of mine
I'd be better off just hanging on to it... you never can have enough recorders 8)
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you never can have enough recorders 8)
The same goes for channels, as in this device =)
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I've been thinking about picking up a R-44, but this looks pretty inviting.
I know most of the time I will only use 2 or 4 channels, but I like the option to run 2 channels of mics, 2 channels of SBD mix, and still have 4 channels left over for individual feeds from the board or maybe even on stage mics, etc. The many possibilities would be really nice.
Another nice option would be patching a few extra sets of mics in a larger TS (like Red Rocks) so I can pick and choose what sounds the best (maybe as a combo mix or just the best stereo source).
Hopefully the tax man is nice to me this year!
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Another nice option would be patching a few extra sets of mics in a larger TS (like Red Rocks) so I can pick and choose what sounds the best (maybe as a combo mix or just the best stereo source).
That is appealing to me as well - I'm usually the only person recording at open-recording shows I go to, but occasionally other folks show up and it'd be nice to grab their feed as well and check out what sounds best later. I just picked up a Motu, so I should have plenty of channels available to me and I hope it expands my creativity with multiple mics etc. to enhance sbd feeds.
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should be some pretty cheap hd-p2's around soon
At the rate it's going, it might end up being the cheapest deck around.... which is crazy, for all that it can do.
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Sweetwater put up a video demo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8fn1QvjsTc
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I have been doing lots of 6-8 channel recording lately (sbd, on-stage, 1 or 2 aud), so this is calling to me! I look forward to the official TS review and might have an r-44 for sale sometime soon...
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As to the reputation of TASCAM, they are a long-established professional brand, which means at a minimum that service and replacement parts are generally available. Over the years they have delivered equipment that has ranged from OK quality to pretty good sometimes; there's no one quality level that they inhabit exclusively. They're neither top-rung nor bottom-rung.
But a lot of their gear sees steady use in studios year after year. It is generally designed to be maintained, which is worth a lot to a studio--as opposed to consumer gear that when it breaks, there's no way to fix it or to get it fixed at reasonable cost. In a studio, sooner or later almost everything breaks at least once.
Modern recording products rely greatly on internal software ("firmware"). This has changed the design and development model for audio products; very often the programming is contracted out. Testing the resulting software in all possible operating states is painfully expensive and requires nearly the same expertise as writing and designing the software does, so it tends to be underbudgeted in a cost- and deadline-driven market. That can easily lead to products that are failure-prone in the field.
A shiny appearance and brilliant specs tell us less and less about a product as time goes on in this business.
--best regards
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I've had a DAP1, and three DA-20's that disagree.
No Focker it's not Tascam's fault, those units didn't work because you owned them :) Technology just likes to f*** with you.
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This is the first unit I've seen that has the potential to de-throne my R44 in the value/capability dept. Can't wait to see how this plays out.
I wonder about externally powering this thing?
Also, I'm intrigued by the "analog" limiters, which I think were implied to be individually selectable.
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I wonder about externally powering this thing?
The DC adapter is 12V and shared with several other Tascam models:
http://www.soundlightltd.com/proddetail.php?prod=TA1225
According to the specs of the HS-P82, it can take any "External DC battery (DC 11–16 V, 2 A or more)", so technically, the powering should be identical for DR-680:
http://www.tascam.de/en/hs-p82.html
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The DC adapter is 12V and shared with several other Tascam models:
http://www.soundlightltd.com/proddetail.php?prod=TA1225 (http://www.soundlightltd.com/proddetail.php?prod=TA1225)
According to the specs of the HS-P82, it can take any "External DC battery (DC 11–16 V, 2 A or more)", so technically, the powering should be identical for DR-680:
http://www.tascam.de/en/hs-p82.html (http://www.tascam.de/en/hs-p82.html)
I would doubt it would need 2A at 12V power. The HS-P82 has 2 more pre's, timecode, two CF Cards, a color display, and can provide power out to an external device. I would think the power consumption for the DR-680 would be in the 500mA - 1A range.
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The DC adapter is 12V and shared with several other Tascam models:
http://www.soundlightltd.com/proddetail.php?prod=TA1225 (http://www.soundlightltd.com/proddetail.php?prod=TA1225)
According to the specs of the HS-P82, it can take any "External DC battery (DC 11–16 V, 2 A or more)", so technically, the powering should be identical for DR-680:
http://www.tascam.de/en/hs-p82.html (http://www.tascam.de/en/hs-p82.html)
I would doubt it would need 2A at 12V power. The HS-P82 has 2 more pre's, timecode, two CF Cards, a color display, and can provide power out to an external device. I would think the power consumption for the DR-680 would be in the 500mA - 1A range.
SD boxes are rated at 12v 2ma as well. However, they rarely draw the full 2ma (high bandwidth recording, triple media writing, using all sorts of filters, and charging the 7.2v battery simultaneously comes closest). So I agree, I doubt it would need the full 2ma for most applications, but there may be an occurrence where it tries to.
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Boy, I'm starting to think that pairing this thing with an opti-mod V3 might be a dream come true, heh.
Ambient into the V3, then digi into this puppy, gives you a killer clean AUD and would leave you six more channels to play with...
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Boy, I'm starting to think that pairing this thing with an opti-mod V3 might be a dream come true, heh.
Ambient into the V3, then digi into this puppy, gives you a killer clean AUD and would leave you six more channels to play with...
Why an opti-mod V3? The Tascam DR-680 uses S/PDIF digital in and out on RCA connectors. You would only need a standard V3.
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Boy, I'm starting to think that pairing this thing with an opti-mod V3 might be a dream come true, heh.
Ambient into the V3, then digi into this puppy, gives you a killer clean AUD and would leave you six more channels to play with...
Why an opti-mod V3? The Tascam DR-680 uses S/PDIF digital in and out on RCA connectors. You would only need a standard V3.
Oops, because I'm cluess I guess, LOL. So a standard V3 does digi just on a different connector? My bad, didn't know that, that's even better then!
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I just ordered one for $851.16 including free shipping. Not in stock yet but should be arriving at retailers in the next 2 weeks.
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Where'd you get that price?
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Where'd you get that price?
Full Compass
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I just ordered one for $851.16 including free shipping. Not in stock yet but should be arriving at retailers in the next 2 weeks.
Must resist urge to buy NOW!
Anyone need a 2002-ish American Strat (with case)? ;D
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I just ordered one for $851.16 including free shipping. Not in stock yet but should be arriving at retailers in the next 2 weeks.
Was that special or discount code? They are $999 now on feb3rd.
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I just ordered one for $851.16 including free shipping. Not in stock yet but should be arriving at retailers in the next 2 weeks.
Was that special or discount code? They are $999 now on feb3rd.
Call and talk to a sales guy
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ok thanks. Has anybody figured out what they mean by:
"Cascade function for running two units together"
I don't see any type of hook up in stock pictures that would support syncing two decks. Any body got a lead on a manual yet?
And I wonder if this will run on 9v? Like the P2 does. Even though it states 12v, the P2 would still run on 9v input.
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ok thanks. Has anybody figured out what they mean by:
"Cascade function for running two units together"
I don't see any type of hook up in stock pictures that would support syncing two decks. Any body got a lead on a manual yet?
My guess is that this would work with the SPDIF ports kinda like what KORG did with the MR-2000
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Just ordered myself one of these as well. Looking forward to giving it a go!
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Just ordered myself one of these as well. Looking forward to giving it a go!
Me too!
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cant wait to hear about battery life on these things.
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ok thanks. Has anybody figured out what they mean by:
"Cascade function for running two units together"
I don't see any type of hook up in stock pictures that would support syncing two decks. Any body got a lead on a manual yet?
And I wonder if this will run on 9v? Like the P2 does. Even though it states 12v, the P2 would still run on 9v input.
prob via the digi out > in
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It would be great if it had menu options like the P2 that allowed it to accept a clock source via the coax. And as far as I can tell the only way to get 8 tracks of recording is to use the coax in. That also leads me to believe that the coax will be channels 7/8. It also seems a little odd that tascam states: "Two of the recorders can be connected with a cascade cable for up to 16-track recording on battery power. " Why just on battery power? Or is that a typo of some sort.
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It would be great if it had menu options like the P2 that allowed it to accept a clock source via the coax. And as far as I can tell the only way to get 8 tracks of recording is to use the coax in. That also leads me to believe that the coax will be channels 7/8. It also seems a little odd that tascam states: "Two of the recorders can be connected with a cascade cable for up to 16-track recording on battery power. " Why just on battery power? Or is that a typo of some sort.
Some of the tracks could be "mixed" tracks (i.e. 6 tracks analog + 2 mix tracks = 8 tracks recorded)
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Yes, 6 analog inputs plus a coax digital = 8 channels.
The decks don't daisy chain via SPDIF though, otherwise their literature is wrong because they would really only have 14 distinct channels being recorded. That would be kind of lame.
I'm guessing there's another linking connector somewhere. Perhaps via USB?
The comment about up to 16 channels on battery power is just poorly worded. It's designed as a battery powered deck, of course.
Soon enough we'll all know the answers to these questions and more. I'm very interested to try one of these out, that's for sure!
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I'm very interested.
- 50% of the time it will be a bitbucket behind my V3.
- 40% of the time it will be a bitbucket behind my V3 + SBD.
- 10% of the time it will be Onstage mics > v3 > bitbucket + SBD + ambient mics + patch from a buddy as a comp.
So in my case anyway, that's 4 line-in, 2 via digi-in, and one pair using the Tascam preamps. Even if the preamps are reasonably (on par with a stock UA5/R4/R44/HDP2), I'd be perfectly happy.
At this price point I expect to make some concessions. I don't care if it has a built in Mid/Side decoder. I'd rather record the raw tracks and mix them at home. If it does "digital resampling" like my R4, that doesn't bother me either.
The thing that concerns me is how configurable the inputs are... for instance on my R4, you can't record channels 3&4 alone, you record 4 channels and the front 2 are empty. That's tolerable to some extent especially with an R4's hard drive. But if I had to record 6 blank channels to run SPDIF only, that would not be acceptable to me. I'll need that info before I write a check.
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The thing that concerns me is how configurable the inputs are... for instance on my R4, you can't record channels 3&4 alone, you record 4 channels and the front 2 are empty. That's tolerable to some extent especially with an R4's hard drive. But if I had to record 6 blank channels to run SPDIF only, that would not be acceptable to me. I'll need that info before I write a check.
I just pre-ordered so I'm excited to talk about this recorder, even if I have no clue what the answer to your question is. ;D
I have no idea how configurable it is, but I'd think with 8 channels to choose from where some of the channels have different input connector types, there would HAVE to be some sort of routing control to be able to choose the number of inputs and have those inputs selectable to specified outputs. Although I suppose it wouldn't be a requirement, it would seem excessively limiting with 8 channels if there was a 1 to 1 assignment of channels to output tracks. The specs seems to make it sound like it has enhanced mixing functions over some products, so that seems maybe to be a clue that there would be some flexibility of channel assignment. Finally, since there's obviously some kind of channel selectivity for setting levels (only one level control with the buttons along the bottom to select channels), then it might also stand to reason there would be some input to output routing selectivity.
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OK so Full Compass says decks are back ordered till 3-31-10(ish).
Call 800-356-5844 ex1386 Talk to Adam and he'll give you a price of $828 including shipping. Tell him Kirk sent you ;D Can't wait to get this sucker
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Looks like this baby is right up my multi-channel alley! I let you boys figure out the bugs and pay top dollar. I sure Steve (tonedeaf) will be selling his in a couple months ;)
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Looks like this baby is right up my multi-channel alley! I let you boys figure out the bugs and pay top dollar. I sure Steve (tonedeaf) will be selling his in a couple months ;)
I'm already taking offers Ted! LOL.
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$867 delivered around the end of March from FC ;D
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$867 delivered around the end of March from FC ;D
OK so Full Compass says decks are back ordered till 3-31-10(ish).
Call 800-356-5844 ex1386 Talk to Adam and he'll give you a price of $828 including shipping. Tell him Kirk sent you ;D Can't wait to get this sucker
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As of today, Full Compass is expecting first units in mid-March. I find it very cool that the feature set of the DR-680 and general design is very similar to the Sonosax SX-R4 which is 5-6 times the price. Starting to get really excited now...
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Any review arround about this box ?
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I've only seen one and I think it was in SOS but it was kinda lame and the reviewer did not really know what he was doing. Tascam has still not even published a manual yet.
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I've only ssen one and I think it was in SOS but it was kinda lame and the reviewer did not really know what he was doing. Tascam has still not even published a manual yet.
The manual is on the Tascam website. Just click on the link at the beginning of the thread and scroll down and click the resources tab.
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I've only ssen one and I think it was in SOS but it was kinda lame and the reviewer did not really know what he was doing. Tascam has still not even published a manual yet.
The manual is on the Tascam website. Just click on the link at the beginning of the thread and scroll down and click the resources tab.
FWIW (nothing) the manual must have been put there either yesterday or the day before because I'd been checking daily since I pre-ordered mine. Glad to see it up there, although in reviewing the manual I have to admit to being a little more lost than I thought I would be without having the deck in my hands to play with live as I'm reading along with the manual.
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Hi folks itsd mid march and still no smoke signals like user manual, exact specs, previews
Wee need strong nerves here...
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Hi folks itsd mid march and still no smoke signals like user manual, exact specs, previews
Wee need strong nerves here...
Headroom...did you visit the Tascam site yet? The manual showed up earlier this week.
A couple of early disappointment for me from reviewing the manual...
1) Looks like you lose data if the deck gets unplugged, so I assume that also means data is not retained when batteries go dead. Major problem there. (see the 'caution' on page 21)
2) Looks to me like the standard mode of operation causes you to have be writing to either six or eight tracks. IOW, you can't select 2 or 4 tracks for max SD card usage. The exception is that 2 track operation is an option for 24/192 recording. What this means is that the most you can get from a 16gb card is between 5 and 6 hours of recording in 24bit.
I hope that the manual is wrong or that I'm misreading, but I've re-read it several times now and I'm pretty sure both of these points is what it's saying.
I'm strongly considering canceling my pre-order. :-\
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Hi folks itsd mid march and still no smoke signals like user manual, exact specs, previews
Wee need strong nerves here...
Headroom...did you visit the Tascam site yet? The manual showed up earlier this week.
A couple of early disappointment for me from reviewing the manual...
1) Looks like you lose data if the deck gets unplugged, so I assume that also means data is not retained when batteries go dead. Major problem there. (see the 'caution' on page 21)
2) Looks to me like the standard mode of operation causes you to have be writing to either six or eight tracks. IOW, you can't select 2 or 4 tracks for max SD card usage. The exception is that 2 track operation is an option for 24/192 recording. What this means is that the most you can get from a 16gb card is between 5 and 6 hours of recording in 24bit.
I hope that the manual is wrong or that I'm misreading, but I've re-read it several times now and I'm pretty sure both of these points is what it's saying.
I'm strongly considering canceling my pre-order. :-\
Oh my good how could someone build an interface like that
You lose data if the deck gets unplugged, so I assume that also means data is not retained when batteries go dead. Major problem there. (see the 'caution' on page 21)
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2) Looks to me like the standard mode of operation causes you to have be writing to either six or eight tracks. IOW, you can't select 2 or 4 tracks for max SD card usage. The exception is that 2 track operation is an option for 24/192 recording. What this means is that the most you can get from a 16gb card is between 5 and 6 hours of recording in 24bit.
I think that's just sloppy writing and the manual's (poor) way of telling you 192 kHz is only possible if recording in stereo. The way I read it, you do only have your choice of recording 2 or 6 tracks in wav, but not 4. It's also not clear if it will "mix" in the extra inputs to the stereo file even if you only have live inputs on channels 1 and 2, which I suppose could raise the noise floor. Reading p. 28, it looks like you can turn unwanted inputs off completely. So it looks like you can record any number of tracks you want in wav format at 96 khz or less, although in the stereo file mode you can only turn tracks on/off in pairs.
Bummer about the inability to deal with interrupted power though... But my guess is that when you get the "battery empty" error message, it enters standby automatically, so your recording will be safe. Only one way to know for sure though.
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Reading p. 28, it looks like you can turn unwanted inputs off completely. So it looks like you can record any number of tracks you want in wav format at 96 khz or less, although in the stereo file mode you can only turn tracks on/off in pairs.
Right. I saw that too and that kinda gave me the same thought, but the chart on page 35 threw me. It seems to indicate that the only permutations of WAV recordings are either 6 or 8 track combination's. I'm trying not to read too much between the lines, but it seems to me like they go into almost every permutation of 6 and 8 track combo's in the chart. If they went to that level of detail for 6 and 8 tracks and it was possible to record in fewer tracks, it sure seems to me that they'd have at least put a couple of examples of what the recording times are with fewer tracks. After all, that would be a huge plus to be able to show that you could record, say onto 4 tracks for 16 hours or whatever. Anyway, like I said before, this isn't really the bigger of the two issues for me.
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Yeah, but I can't see what possible meaning turning a track "off" (p. 28) could have if you can't choose not to record it.
The chart on p.35 worries (or would worry, if buying another deck fit into my plans right now) me too, but I see 6 and 8 track as reasonable maximum needs for folks with and without a suitable digital source to mix in, so both could be of interest in terms of calculating minimum card sizes needed for a project.
The power off issue would be more worrying to me as well, but I know on the DR2D you get a low battery error long before the unit actually powers itself off, so it's hard to imagine it doesn't enter some sort of safe mode at that point. So unless you batteries had an unexpectedly quick final discharge, it seems like you should be safe from that - at least when using AAs. An external battery going dead would probably have the same effect as unplugging though....but as long as you have a high enough capacity battery, maybe that's not an issue. I know the uncertainty is stressful, but really I can't remember the last time I actually had a battery go dead on me while recording.
Good luck if you keep your pre-order in effect!
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It could be possible they allow you to turn off tracks to reduce unwanted noise on an open channel. But it does seem to be a glaring omission to force the writing of non-collected information.
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^^^^^ likely you can turn off tracks so that - un needed data would be recorded. Some recorded could function in this way
all 6 - or 8 channels will record data- obviously using media space - unless turned off or disabled.
1 gb per hour at 24/48 could add up if you were recording only 2 track or 4 track, but writing 6 - 8 track, instead of 2GB for an hour your media would be effectively writing 6-8 GB in an hour. this of course is only my interpretation of what they would let you disable tracks, effectively not writing the data to the media if not needed.
Has anyone had an update, when do we expect these in hand really?
this looks like an awesome option for many including myself... in the near or distant future
peace
--Ian
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Has anyone had an update, when do we expect these in hand really?
For Europe:
"Availability of this item:shipment due to arrive on 05.04.2010" according to Thomann.de
That's April 5, if you're in doubt... :)
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Chris Carfagno at SP just mailed me:
This item is in stock and shipping now.
There's also another retailer with units in stock since 3/29, offering a 5% discount with the code posted here:
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-things-audio/475599-new-8-ch-field-recorder-tascam-dr-680-a-2.html
Interesting to read about the speculations of a Oade mod too...
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Mine will be here tomorrow. Looking forward to checking this thing out!
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Hello:
These just arrived! I am holding back a few for Taperssection members with an additional $100 off the normal $999 street price. If anyone is interested, please email sales@soundprofessionals.com
They go up for grabs tomorrow for everyone else!
If you have any questions, please let me know.
Best Regards,
Chris Carfagno
sales@soundprofessionals.com
www.soundprofessionals.com
The Sound Professionals, Inc.
3444 Sylon Blvd
Hainesport NJ, 08036
800-213-3021
609-267-4400
609-267-0054 fax
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Mine will be here tomorrow. Looking forward to checking this thing out!
sweet!, need to know if this is a real step up for 6 channels, 8 if you have a digital output preamp...
Not that I don't really dig my r-44, sometimes more than 4 could be great
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Just the ability to have the clocks sync with another deck makes it a step up. I think the stock tascm pres are a touch better than the stock edirol pres. Not that there any big difference. I've got an ETA in three days.................
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Mine arrived today but I'm out of town and won't get to play until tomorrow. I plan to do a comp between the V2 and the internal mic pres possibly as soon as tomorrow. I like the fact that this unit accepts a hot line level signal (+24dbu). Perfect for a V2/V3.
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Wow, this is one cool box! Haven't done much with it yet, but we're doing band interviews for an upcoming TV series next Sunday so it will get a good workout then.
Just FYI - I am running it on my 8000maH 9V DVD batt at the moment - so it WILL run off the standard batts like the P2 - no telling for how long though.
I hope to run a time test with a couple sets of mics this weekend.
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[quote author=TNJazz link=topic=131128.msg1752963#msg1752963 date=1270310574
Just FYI - I am running it on my 8000maH 9V DVD batt at the moment - so it WILL run off the standard batts like the P2 - no telling for how long though.
[/quote]
Oh fuck yeah!!! Running time HAS to be longer than AA's. Can't stand it I have to wait till sometime monday for the new toy. I'm so glad I did order when I did or else it would not be happening now for me. I think there will soon be a glut of R-44's for sale. I mean why not when you can sell the R-44 for what one of these cost ya. Get Chris to tune up my BM2p+ for the digi input and have two other pre's which will leave one set of channels for the sbd feed. I'm like a sixteen year old school girl all giddy.......
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[quote author=TNJazz link=topic=131128.msg1752963#msg1752963 date=1270310574
Just FYI - I am running it on my 8000maH 9V DVD batt at the moment - so it WILL run off the standard batts like the P2 - no telling for how long though.
Oh fuck yeah!!! Running time HAS to be longer than AA's. Can't stand it I have to wait till sometime monday for the new toy. I'm so glad I did order when I did or else it would not be happening now for me. I think there will soon be a glut of R-44's for sale. I mean why not when you can sell the R-44 for what one of these cost ya. Get Chris to tune up my BM2p+ for the digi input and have two other pre's which will leave one set of channels for the sbd feed. I'm like a sixteen year old school girl all giddy.......
[/quote]you think the r44 will hold its value if people can get this for the same price? assuming it sounds good too
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I do think the R-44 will hold their value. Not everyone wants 8 track recorders. Look how many people are still running 2 track recorders. And the R-44 is a rock solid 4 track recorder. I do think this will hurt some of the 788 sales. And as long as the preamps are as good as the HD-P2 this box will be awesome.
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Did my first preamp comp between the internal pre's and a V2. While the V2 is certainly a better preamp, the differences were not nearly as large as I was expecting and seem more like the sound of the 722 pre's than any other all in one box pre's I have heard from Edirol, Tascam, Marantz, Korg, etc. I did not compare 48V phantom as I used Stewart BPS-1's and xlr splitters to the two different preamps. Source material was played fairly loud through my meyer playback system and only needed 40 db gain from the V2 and +14 gain on the tascam with the low gain setting selected. This leads me to believe that the tascam mic pre's should handle loud shows without need for mods or fear of overloading the inputs. Nice!
Was also glad to learn the gain on each channel can be adjusted quickly on the fly without need to hit the channel solo button for 2 seconds first. Only need to do that if you want to monitor one particular channel.
Liking this thing so far. More impressions to come....
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And the R-44 is a rock solid 4 track recorder.
That is soooo true, my R44 has proven itself bulletproof. I can ALWAYS count on it, period, never one glitch ever in over a hundred concert recordings now...
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Thanks for the early reports! Sounds good so far...
Can you record in 2, 4, or 6 tracks with ease?
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Did my first preamp comp between the internal pre's and a V2. While the V2 is certainly a better preamp, the differences were not nearly as large as I was expecting and seem more like the sound of the 722 pre's than any other all in one box pre's I have heard from Edirol, Tascam, Marantz, Korg, etc. I did not compare 48V phantom as I used Stewart BPS-1's and xlr splitters to the two different preamps. Source material was played fairly loud through my meyer playback system and only needed 40 db gain from the V2 and +12 gain on the tascam with the low gain setting selected. This leads me to believe that the tascam mic pre's should handle loud shows without need for mods or fear of overloading the inputs. Nice!
Was also glad to learn the gain on each channel can be adjusted quickly on the fly without need to hit the channel solo button for 2 seconds first. Only need to do that if you want to monitor one particular channel.
Liking this thing so far. More impressions to come....
I am liking this even a whole lot more now that I realized the better sounding pre to my ears is NOT the V2!!!!!! I just assumed the better sounding of the two was the V2. Double checked the cables and wow I can't believe my eyes. I am in total shock over this :o This Tascam is tighter sounding with larger soundstage, more detail and much clearer overall than the V2. A really noticeable difference at all volume levels.
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Someone said that the ability to record mp3 seemed to be missing in the menus. I notice that "The DR-680 records up to four channels of MP3 audio for web-ready recordings." Maybe you don't get the mp3 option if you have more than four channels enabled??
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I forget whether we've covered this question already - does it have the R-44's ability to handle MS mics? I guess if not one could use an R-44 feeding the digital inputs... but for me I think lack of MS would be a dealbreaker (and a bit of an oversight by Tascam as it would be very simple to include).
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From the Tascam site - "Two of the recorders can be connected with a cascade cable for up to 16-track recording on battery power. " Note however that you can't record 16 separate sources that way, as the digital input of one of the recorders is used for syncing the two recorders. So the best you can actually do is to record 14 sources plus a stereo mix of 6 of the sources. I think their claim is a bit misleading as people might think 16 tracks = 16 inputs.
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Someone said that the ability to record mp3 seemed to be missing in the menus. I notice that "The DR-680 records up to four channels of MP3 audio for web-ready recordings." Maybe you don't get the mp3 option if you have more than four channels enabled??
On the box is says "MP3 recording/playback enabled by a software update"
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This DR-680 looks very interesting. I'm anxious to hear some comparisons against other all in one recorders. It's great news that it'll work with 9v "DVD" batteries. If the mic pre-amps don't overload easily, this may be the all in one I want. I was recently toying with the idea of getting an R-44. After reading about this, I think I'll wait...
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Any pics?
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Max input level for Mic at low gain is +3dBu. For Line is +24dBu. This compares favorably to the SD 722/744/788 which is +10dBu and +24 dBu respectively. Based on these published specs and my tests so far, these inputs should not overload very easily.
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Did my first preamp comp between the internal pre's and a V2. While the V2 is certainly a better preamp, the differences were not nearly as large as I was expecting and seem more like the sound of the 722 pre's than any other all in one box pre's I have heard from Edirol, Tascam, Marantz, Korg, etc. I did not compare 48V phantom as I used Stewart BPS-1's and xlr splitters to the two different preamps. Source material was played fairly loud through my meyer playback system and only needed 40 db gain from the V2 and +12 gain on the tascam with the low gain setting selected. This leads me to believe that the tascam mic pre's should handle loud shows without need for mods or fear of overloading the inputs. Nice!
Was also glad to learn the gain on each channel can be adjusted quickly on the fly without need to hit the channel solo button for 2 seconds first. Only need to do that if you want to monitor one particular channel.
Liking this thing so far. More impressions to come....
I am liking this even a whole lot more now that I realized the better sounding pre to my ears is NOT the V2!!!!!! I just assumed the better sounding of the two was the V2. Double checked the cables and wow I can't believe my eyes. I am in total shock over this :o This Tascam is tighter sounding with larger soundstage, more detail and much clearer overall than the V2. A really noticeable difference at all volume levels.
Very cool Matt it sound like the stock pres are very nice.
could you let us know what mics you were using?
It sounds like this might be my next recorder- but I'll have to wait till I can afford one.
I am glad to hear all of these positive reports!
keep 'em comin'
--Ian
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Very cool Matt it sound like the stock pres are very nice.
could you let us know what mics you were using?
It sounds like this might be my next recorder- but I'll have to wait till I can afford one.
I am glad to hear all of these positive reports!
keep 'em comin'
--Ian
Milab VM-44 Links -> Stewart BPS-1's (48V) -> xlr splitter -> V2 (+40 dB gain) -> DR-680 (line in, unity gain)
Milab VM-44 Links -> Stewart BPS-1's (48V) -> xlr splitter -> DR-680 (mic in, no phantom, low gain switch, +14 gain)
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Does anyone know if there is overlap between the high and low mic gain settings? It would suck to run out of gain in the low setting and have to flip it to high gain during a recording...
I am really considering getting one of these. At this point I'd have to sell my V3 to afford it though :(
This box looks like it has everything I need.
If the mic inputs aren't the greatest on the DR-680, I could use my Naiant box for the microphone pre-amp and run it line in. How are the meters? I don't suppose you can run 16 bit into the SPDIF input and run 24 bit on the mic inputs at the same time?
I have so many questions. I can't wait to hear some reviews and comparisons.
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I see about 10dB overlap between the low and high gain settings if that helps. 20dB difference at the switch and 30dB gain from the trim.
Was interesting that I had to turn the Littlebox gain all the way up and it had to be at +7 on the DR-680 line trim to match the same recording level as mic in, high gain setting and unity trim on just the DR-680. Both were extremely quiet using a Milab LC-25 with the Tascam pre's being noticeably cleaner than the Littlebox.
Meters leave a lot to be desired but the REC TRIM increments are .5dB to make adjusting levels fairly smooth.
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Thanks for the input, Matt.
Generally, I use around 30db to 35db of gain on the V3 with C-481's for concert recording.
So, it sounds like that range is covered with the Low Gain setting and Trim control on the DR-680.
When you adjust recording levels can you link the stereo pairs to adjust them up or down together rather than just L then R individually?
Do you see any downside to using the DR-680 as an all-in-one multi-channel pre-amp/recorder so far?
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I contacted some of the regular retailers today and found that it is generally in stock and can be bought for around $852 shipped.
I'm going to start selling some stuff... :)
I just wonder if it's fool-hardy to sell the V3 to fund buying this? The V3 is so perfect... but I'm starting to think that it's maybe not worth carrying the V3 when I like to record four tracks every time I record now? It would be so nice to have an all-in-one and not have to mess with all the various devices and their cables and power supplies I use and maintain to record with now.
Matt, I was surprised to hear that you thought the DR-680's mic pre-amps were not as noisy as the littlebox pre-amp. That may be the deciding factor for me, because I really like the littlebox pre-amp. I don't find it to be noisy at all.
I may end up buying a DR-680 and running it along side the V3 for a little while to determine if I'd be compromising anything by replacing the V3 with it.
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Matt, I was surprised to hear that you thought the DR-680's mic pre-amps were not as noisy as the littlebox pre-amp. That may be the deciding factor for me, because I really like the littlebox pre-amp. I don't find it to be noisy at all.
Well, thought they were both extremely quiet and low noise. I really didn't think one was noisier but just cleaner in tonal quality. The Littlebox has its own slight color where I find this Tascam to be more colorless and neutral.
I have generally never liked using stock all in one boxes and always find an external preamp to be beneficial. I know the mod boxes do pretty well without. But I don't see how this box will benefit from a mod when sounding this good stock. No preamp needed!!
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Matt, I was surprised to hear that you thought the DR-680's mic pre-amps were not as noisy as the littlebox pre-amp. That may be the deciding factor for me, because I really like the littlebox pre-amp. I don't find it to be noisy at all.
Well, thought they were both extremely quiet and low noise. I really didn't think one was noisier but just cleaner in tonal quality. The Littlebox has its own slight color where I find this Tascam to be more colorless and neutral.
I have genarally never liked using stock all in one boxes and always find an external preamp to be beneficial. I know the mod boxes do pretty well without. But I don't see how this box will benefit from a mod when sounding this good stock. No preamp needed!!
Very, very good news. Thanks again for the input.
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Posting on the Yahoo Naturerecordists list, Raimund Specht said,
"...the preamplifiers of the DR-680 exhibit the same good noise
performance as the HD-P2."
That's good news indeed, and confirm Chuck's report.
Flintstone
edit: Here's the link http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/naturerecordists/message/40218
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You guys are killing me, I hate you all. And I mean that in a good way. I've got my brand new DR-680 sitting here and while our finances are up in the air I figure it is worth more unopened if I have to sell it. Hopefully the drool marks on the outside will come off. Meanwhile it sits there mocking me.....
So initial reports are good. and I have to say that the reports of it sounding better than a V2 or little box were surprising. But wouldn't that mean the P2 or 07 would sound better too? Or is this possibly a new preamp design? Inquiring minds want to know.
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I'll have mine out tonight, not sure if I'll get a board feed tonight but next week I will for sure. ;D
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It can't possibly be anywhere near the quality of 8channels of V2 quality preamps > HDP2 quality ADC's for under $900 can it?? I'm sure that it is fantastic sounding, but I just can't believe the street price of this thing.........
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It can't possibly be anywhere near the quality of 8channels of V2 quality preamps > HDP2 quality ADC's for under $900 can it?? I'm sure that it is fantastic sounding, but I just can't believe the street price of this thing.........
No, it can't possibly be...because it only has 6 channels of preamp. ;) But I don't think the price per channel of a good preamp need be absurdly high...look at the Littlebox and then factor in economies of scale and manufacturing in China, or look at the FR2LE and add 4 channels of preamp, keeping in mind the case etc. are already taken care of.
Of course, I'm taking "anywhere near" seriously. The V2 may well be a smidge better, but I'm not convinced it would be an audible difference in most situations. I think folks here tend to way over-estimate how different competent preamps sound.
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Well... only 6 preamps......... what's all the hype about then? :P
Basically, this will end the production of the HDP2 then most likely eh? Unless the P2 has some specific features that the 680 doesn't have. Guess I'll have to re-read the specs on this thing. Not saying it needs one, but I wonder how long before a MOD exists?
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There's no timecode on the 680 . . .
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I just ordered one. It should be here in time to record three nights of moe. in Denver.
I'm going to bring my V3 and *hopefully* do some sort of a comparison one or more of the nights.
I'm worried a little about the DR-680 meters. I've been spoiled by the V3 and RockBoxed iRiver meters.
The last time I bought an all-in-one pre-amp/recorder (Oade Marantz PMD671) I was a little disappointed. It sounded great, but, I just wasn't so thrilled with it.
This DR-680 box records 6 channels and 8 (if you count the SPDIF input)... I have been recording at least 2 stereo sources every opportunity now-a-days, so I'm really hoping this is IT.
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There's no timecode on the 680 . . .
Not exactly true it will accept AES and Coax time code sync. It also geneterates time code signal but not wordclock. It cannot accept wordclock input.
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2 questions:
1. are you sure this accepts time code? I don't see any input for it nor do I see any reference in the manual when I do a quick search for 'timecode', 'time code' or 'smpte'.
2. can you completely lock the top panel and still have good control of all needed features by using the front panel for 'drop in bag' field applications?
Thanks!
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The manual says: sync to AES/SPDIF IN/OUT from another 680 machine no time code possible
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kinda a side note but can someone tell me the difference between time code and word clock
thanks
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kinda a side note but can someone tell me the difference between time code and word clock
thanks
Word Clock is a high freq clock signal that determines the sample rate you are using (48k, 44.1k etc). Timecode (LTC anyhow) is an analog stream of data that can be translated into hours/minutes/seconds/frames plus userbits by appropriate equipment. Digital recorders need clock to determine their sample rate, which determines their speed accuracy. Timecode gives you an exact location in time for any part of the file. "Real" timecode, readable by professional gear, is applied to Broadcast Wave Files, the files are "timestamped" with the TC value at their start and the playback device counts on from that point (there is no separate "timecode track" as in older recorders). I asked Tascam if they time-stamped the DR680 files with the time from the recorder's internal clock, and they said yes. The recorder will record in Broadcast Wave File filetype, but I don't know yet whether the DR680 timestamps the BWF w/ it's clock time in a way other equipment will interpret as TC, and what the default frame rate would be (important to know for Final Cut projects). The DR680 CAN take in an external clock via its SPDIF/AES input, and clock itself to that, but will only do so when you are recording that input--if you have only activated the analog inputs it won't clock to the SPDIF input (at least this is what Tascam told me). This is a bummer. I wish they had made the DR680 a little more expensive and allowed external clocking in any record mode, and also allowed external TC to be applied to the BWF files it makes (both like the H2P2).
Philip Perkins
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I wish they had made the DR680 a little more expensive and allowed external clocking in any record mode, and also allowed external TC to be applied to the BWF files it makes (both like the H2P2).
http://www.tascam.com/products/hs-p82.html was announced at the same time as the DR-680 - and is of course a lot more expensive. So far I think all manufacturers have regarded timecode as chiefly being of interest to 100% professional purchasers, and have specced and priced the gear accordingly.
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HS-P82 SMPTE Timecode In and Out (BNC connector) 4 a professional connection with Camcorders some semipro have also Timecode IN. Expensive upgrade a Timecode board cost near as much as the 680 recorder alone!
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I wish they had made the DR680 a little more expensive and allowed external clocking in any record mode, and also allowed external TC to be applied to the BWF files it makes (both like the H2P2).
http://www.tascam.com/products/hs-p82.html was announced at the same time as the DR-680 - and is of course a lot more expensive. So far I think all manufacturers have regarded timecode as chiefly being of interest to 100% professional purchasers, and have specced and priced the gear accordingly.
TC isn't that expensive to implement if you don't include a high-accuracy clock--that's both the advantage and the knock on the HDP2 as a TC-capable recorder (can take external TC and clock and be very stable, is only frame accurate for about 20 min on its own). The HSP82 is priced much too high for Tascam to sell many of them in the pro market--for less than $1k more than its price you can buy a Sound Devices 788T, which does WAY more than the Tascam and can take all kinds of interesting accessories (DVDRAM mirror burner, both rotary and linear fader panels, can be monitored and controlled live in the Wave Agent computer app., can record two stereo mixes in addition to 8 iso tracks, can record to 3 media at once, etc.. and is much smaller than the Tascam, about the same size as the DR680). The DR680 is much more interesting re: price and size, so I keep trying to find workarounds to get it to hold sync and record files that can fit into a video audio workflow....
Philip Perkins
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thanks philip
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There are some other ways to do SMTP Timecode sync trade off is you lose one chanel audio
http://www.videotoolshed.com/product/26/fcp-auxtc-reader
http://www.groupsrv.com/movie/about109337-0.html
http://help.lockergnome.com/movies/Audio-Microtrack-24-96-time-code-level-issue--ftopict76681.html
http://www.markertek.com/Video-Equipment/Video-Processors/Time-Code-Equipment/TIMETOOL-L.xhtml
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After reading the DR-680 manual and reading the various posts in this thread a few times, I have some questions:
- Can you turn off recording on some channels so you don't have to use up SDHC card space by recording 6 channels when for example you only want to record 4?
- Can you adjust stereo pair levels together, or do you have to adjust each mono input separately? MattH said it's easier to adjust levels than he anticipated.
- It looks like you get a "clip indicator" on top of each channel when levels get within 2dB of digital clipping. That's strange... I'd rather know when levels actually are clipping... Does that indicator go away at some time interval so that it resets? Something like pushing the Peak Reset button on a V3...
- What actually happens when the external power is disconnected? Do you really lose the whole recording and all settings? It also looks like the back-light will always be on when powering this with an external source too? What is the actual external voltage threshold before the deck shuts down?
- Does the 'Limiter" actually lower the gain level of the channel so it won't clip anymore, or does it act like a real limiter and just stop that channel from clipping by aggressively compressing the level at a specific threshold before it clips?
- I see there are no markings or a dB scale along side of the meters, to gage what your actual levels are? That's the biggest problem I see with this box so far. I guess an external calibrated meter fed by the line outs might be needed.
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There are some other ways to do SMTP Timecode sync trade off is you lose one chanel audio
http://www.videotoolshed.com/product/26/fcp-auxtc-reader
http://www.groupsrv.com/movie/about109337-0.html
http://help.lockergnome.com/movies/Audio-Microtrack-24-96-time-code-level-issue--ftopict76681.html
http://www.markertek.com/Video-Equipment/Video-Processors/Time-Code-Equipment/TIMETOOL-L.xhtml
These work ok but are very non standard in the video business. If you are handling the post yourself or are starting a big job where you can do tests to come up with a workflow then fine, but if you are doing a normal short-schedule job you can't count on using any of these methods--post wants to see BWFs with TC timestamps. What I'm trying to decide is if not having TC at all (just the TOD time stamp) will be ok for shoots with newer cameras like the Canon 5D, where the TC is kind of irrelevant--it is much faster to sync the sound manually or w/ PluralEyes in Final Cut than use the TC reference, for many sorts of projects at least....I think.
Philip Perkins
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These work ok but are very non standard in the video business. If you are handling the post yourself or are starting a big job where you can do tests to come up with a workflow then fine, but if you are doing a normal short-schedule job you can't count on using any of these methods--post wants to see BWFs with TC timestamps. What I'm trying to decide is if not having TC at all (just the TOD time stamp) will be ok for shoots with newer cameras like the Canon 5D, where the TC is kind of irrelevant--it is much faster to sync the sound manually or w/ PluralEyes in Final Cut than use the TC reference, for many sorts of projects at least....I think.
Philip Perkins
[/quote]
I do also video work I record with the Sony PCM 50. Send the Sound direct wireless to the Videocamera with the Emu Pipe Line. Works with 24 bit 48 Khz Anaolg or SPFIF IN OUT. And sometimes i have to do it manually but with the Waveform, its not a big job if dont have to many clips.
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Tried to UL to the archives for some reason it just won’t take it? Source mk4 > cmr > Tascam dr680.
Mic in > gain +5
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=534209
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These work ok but are very non standard in the video business. If you are handling the post yourself or are starting a big job where you can do tests to come up with a workflow then fine, but if you are doing a normal short-schedule job you can't count on using any of these methods--post wants to see BWFs with TC timestamps. What I'm trying to decide is if not having TC at all (just the TOD time stamp) will be ok for shoots with newer cameras like the Canon 5D, where the TC is kind of irrelevant--it is much faster to sync the sound manually or w/ PluralEyes in Final Cut than use the TC reference, for many sorts of projects at least....I think.
Philip Perkins
I do also video work I record with the Sony PCM 50. Send the Sound direct wireless to the Videocamera with the Emu Pipe Line. Works with 24 bit 48 Khz Anaolg or SPFIF IN OUT. And sometimes i have to do it manually but with the Waveform, its not a big job if dont have to many clips.
[/quote]
One of my clients made a feature length doc that way (D50 and 5D) w/ manual sync and it worked out very well. That's why I question the need for TC at all for audio except on very high-end projects.
Philip Perkins
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^^^like some of you other vid hounds, I've been following the progress of this thread with quite a bit of interest, particularly as a field recorder option to my 20U road rack multitrack kit. I must say, though, that TC does not sync your vid cam with outboard audio. It simply gives you a common timebase, which is great for rough sync'ing lots of clips; but drift will likely still occur with extended shoots because both devices are operating off of separate clocks. And that's something that PluralEyes cannot fix, as they correctly state in their disclaimer.
To ensure driftless audio, you need to genlock the cams to a master clock like the Brainstorm dcd-8 and wordclock the audio rig to the same master clock.
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I would like to know how ist the display outside in the sun? Very reflective like the Edirol R-4 ? TNX
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Tried to UL to the archives for some reason it just won’t take it? Source mk4 > cmr > Tascam dr680.
Mic in > gain +5
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=534209
Thanks!! I have been wanting anticipating hearing that lineup.... They should make a good start to Wanee!
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- Can you turn off recording on some channels so you don't have to use up SDHC card space by recording 6 channels when for example you only want to record 4?
1. Yes, you can turn channels on and off as needed.
Can you adjust stereo pair levels together, or do you have to adjust each mono input separately? MattH said it's easier to adjust levels than he anticipated.
2. No, it does not appear you can do this.
- It looks like you get a "clip indicator" on top of each channel when levels get within 2dB of digital clipping. That's strange... I'd rather know when levels actually are clipping... Does that indicator go away at some time interval so that it resets? Something like pushing the Peak Reset button on a V3...
3. The meters are actually not very good IMO. I never record to hot anyway these days with 24 bit so it is not a big issue for me. No reset button, if your not paying attention you will not know it clipped.
- What actually happens when the external power is disconnected? Do you really lose the whole recording and all settings? It also looks like the back-light will always be on when powering this with an external source too? What is the actual external voltage threshold before the deck shuts down?
4. I'm not willing to give this a try yet.
Does the 'Limiter" actually lower the gain level of the channel so it won't clip anymore, or does it act like a real limiter and just stop that channel from clipping by aggressively compressing the level at a specific threshold before it clips?
5. I personally never use a limiter. Refer to #3
- I see there are no markings or a dB scale along side of the meters, to gage what your actual levels are? That's the biggest problem I see with this box so far. I guess an external calibrated meter fed by the line outs might be needed.
6. Refer to #3
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Great info. Thank you.
Mine is supposed to be here tomorrow.
I won't have much time to mess with it before I record my first show on Thursday.
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^^^like some of you other vid hounds, I've been following the progress of this thread with quite a bit of interest, particularly as a field recorder option to my 20U road rack multitrack kit. I must say, though, that TC does not sync your vid cam with outboard audio. It simply gives you a common timebase, which is great for rough sync'ing lots of clips; but drift will likely still occur with extended shoots because both devices are operating off of separate clocks. And that's something that PluralEyes cannot fix, as they correctly state in their disclaimer.
To ensure driftless audio, you need to genlock the cams to a master clock like the Brainstorm dcd-8 and wordclock the audio rig to the same master clock.
TC is not a time base or clock unless your device can derive its clock from it (as the HDP2 can), and then it is. But many video cameras in common use now do not have either external sync or external TC inputs, but producers want to use them anyhow. So we try to make the audio clock as stable as we can, and then make sure there is a reference audio track on as many of the cameras as we can manage (in a multicam concert shoot, for instance). The cameras frame rate will drift somewhat, but not as much as you might think--we have successfully done 2 hour+ sets with as many as 9 non-synced cameras. PluralEyes or a manual sync will get the sync close, then the sync will have to be tweaked a bit, maybe, when the project is cut. In the old days big shoots like this were always done with genlocked cameras and common TC, but we are finding that with file based workflows and the capabilities of current editors like FCP 7 that that is MUCH less of an issue in post for many kinds of shoots. In these cases the important factors are stability of clock (do the best you can, have as few things drifting free as possible, ie lockdown the audio), a good sync mark (especially good if it can have audio on both the camera and the sound recorder: that's an easier sync that sound to picture), and as few camera starts as possible--let it roll. Fewer sync points=happier editors.
Philip Perkins
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http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/naturerecordists/messages/40228?threaded=1&m=e&var=1&tidx=1 makes interesting reading about the DR-680's inner workings.
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http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/naturerecordists/messages/40228?threaded=1&m=e&var=1&tidx=1 makes interesting reading about the DR-680's inner workings.
Great stuff from the nature recordists!
Here is a link to the avisoft.com test results done by Raimund Specht:
http://www.avisoft.com/recordertests.htm
I see this as very good news. Seemingly confirming that the pre-amps are more along the lines of the HD-P2 than the rest of the Tascam DR line.
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A couple of notes I have after doing some of my own tests today:
- It does work fine on a 9v DVD battery.
- With 8 AA batteries installed (internally) I pulled the external plug out and it continued recording without a hitch. So internal battery back-up works fine.
- Without batteries installed I pulled the external plug and it shut down. The WAV files were saved fine. The header was fine too. The files were not corrupted.
- The pre-amps are not noisy.
- There is plenty of gain in the LOW mic setting. I wasn't able to check if my mics overloaded it with concert level volume.
- The screen back-light stays on when using the external power source (9v DVD battery or AC). So that will negatively effect external battery life.
- It's fairly easy to use right off the bat. I did read the manual inside and out a number of times before it arrived.
- I like it.
I doubt I'll have much more time to mess with it before I use it to record this weekend.
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- The screen back-light stays on when using the external power source (9v DVD battery or AC). So that will negatively effect external battery life.
Are you sure you can't change this? I know the HD-P2 is like this by default, but you can turn it off in the system menu.
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You cats who already have your DR680s, can you confirm or deny something for me? In reading the manual, I'm confused as to whether the DR680 can record 6 analog tracks AND the digital input pair at the same time (total 8 inputs), or only can record the digital input INSTEAD of inputs 5/6 (and its mixdown). I had thought it was 6 analog + the digital in OR a mixdown (total, 8 chan), but re reading the manual now I'm not sure. I know it can do 6 in analog + mix pair.
thanks
Philip Perkins
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Yes, you can do as you initially thought: six analog tracks and the digital input. Channels 7 and 8 are called the "Stereo Track," which I find a bit confusing. You have to tell the recorder whether you want the Stereo Track (channels 7 & 8) to be a mix or just the digital-in signal. This is in the REC menu, under the ST REC item. If you set it to digital input (DIN), you're set. But if you are using that for the mix and want channels 5 & 6 to be the digital-in tracks, then you further have to tell the recorder that. This is in the I/O menu under INPUT SEL.
So . . . if you have four or fewer analog tracks, you can record those to channels 1-4, the digital input to channels 5/6, and also record a mix of all the channels to the "Stereo Track" (if you want--you still have to arm the channels you want to be recorded). I did a choral concert Saturday with two stereo pairs of mics and a spot mic for soloists. One of my stereo pairs was digi-in (DAV BG-1>Mytek 192), recorded to 5 and 6. The other pair went into a second DAV and then line-in to channels 1 and 2. The spot mic went into channel 4. I used that instead of channel 3 only because it automatically defaulted to being panned to the right, which is roughly where I wanted it, so it was just convenient for monitoring. Not that I couldn't have adjusted the panning of channel 3 very easily, but there was no particular need; I just didn't arm channel 3 for recording. I guess I should mention I recorded this in mono file mode to avoid having an empty channel.
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Some means of recording the mix to a separate medium would be handy but recording a stereo mix to the same medium seems to me to be a bit of an invention looking for a use. Or am I being unimaginative? (which is entirely possible).
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I see this as very good news. Seemingly confirming that the pre-amps are more along the lines of the HD-P2 than the rest of the Tascam DR line.
From a post by Oryoki to NatureRecordists today:
I spoke with Tascam representatives at the NAB convention about the DR-680 preamp design. They said the DR-680 uses a design similar to the DR-100, but built from electronic components that have better performance than the DR-100 offers.
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Well . . . I suppose if you can set up a mix during soundcheck that you think you'll be happy with, it could save a lot of time in post, but you'd still have the individual tracks to play with if you decide against. I'm not sure that's ever likely to happen for me, but who knows. Additionally, one could take the time and set up the mix internally after the fact for playback, and then send that via the digital-out to another recorder. I have an MT around somewhere that I could try that with. But I agree it's not the handiest implementation.
Some means of recording the mix to a separate medium would be handy but recording a stereo mix to the same medium seems to me to be a bit of an invention looking for a use. Or am I being unimaginative? (which is entirely possible).
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I guess you could take out the card, pop it in a laptop, and then burn the stereo mix to CD right away to give to the band or whatever. But then you'd need to have a laptop about you... now there's something they should bring out, a compact CD burner with an SD card reader attached.
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- The screen back-light stays on when using the external power source (9v DVD battery or AC). So that will negatively effect external battery life.
Are you sure you can't change this? I know the HD-P2 is like this by default, but you can turn it off in the system menu.
I have not found a way to do this. You can program how soon the back-light goes out if you run on internal batteries. But, I have not found a way to disable it with an external power source.
Also, as mentioned before you can turn unused tracks off, so you won't use up valuable card space with blank tracks.
I was able to record mics in on tracks 1&2 and use tracks 7&8 to record the SPDIF out of my V3, which is the way I plan to run it for a while. I'm going to run one of my iRiver recorders out of the optical output on the V3 as a back-up... just in case there are any *glitches* with the new recorder.
I bought the recommended Transcend 16GB SDHC card and it's working great so far.
I haven't found anything I hate about this recorder yet.
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... now there's something they should bring out, a compact CD burner with an SD card reader attached.
'they' have.......
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So we try to make the audio clock as stable as we can, and then make sure there is a reference audio track on as many of the cameras as we can manage (in a multicam concert shoot, for instance). The cameras frame rate will drift somewhat, but not as much as you might think--we have successfully done 2 hour+ sets with as many as 9 non-synced cameras.
I'm not concerned about non-locked cams either. My primary response was due to the fact that audio drift will require all audio tracks to be time stretched in your NLE to remove the inherit drift between the outboard audio and the video. I just did a small shoot a couple weeks ago, but still have 21 audio tracks to mixdown. Although the clocks in my old digimax 48k's are very good, there is bound to be some variation between the master audio clock and the cams' clocks in this 2-hour gig. The only way to correct this is to mathematically manipulate 21 tracks of audio (or the stereo master) in order to properly sync the audio with the video unless you have the cams genlocked to one master clock and the entire audio rig WC'd to that same master clock.
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I just emailed Doug to check on availability. Here was his response:
Hi Lee, it may be a while since every DR series they have released had or developed serious issues. We are waiting to see how it does before we decide if we want to sell them. I will add your name to the waiting list.
thanks for the inquiry....Doug
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So we try to make the audio clock as stable as we can, and then make sure there is a reference audio track on as many of the cameras as we can manage (in a multicam concert shoot, for instance). The cameras frame rate will drift somewhat, but not as much as you might think--we have successfully done 2 hour+ sets with as many as 9 non-synced cameras.
I'm not concerned about non-locked cams either. My primary response was due to the fact that audio drift will require all audio tracks to be time stretched in your NLE to remove the inherit drift between the outboard audio and the video. I just did a small shoot a couple weeks ago, but still have 21 audio tracks to mixdown. Although the clocks in my old digimax 48k's are very good, there is bound to be some variation between the master audio clock and the cams' clocks in this 2-hour gig. The only way to correct this is to mathematically manipulate 21 tracks of audio (or the stereo master) in order to properly sync the audio with the video unless you have the cams genlocked to one master clock and the entire audio rig WC'd to that same master clock.
In our practice it does not work out this way. There isn't any reason to time stretch and put up with the audio artifacts that that might make, and in any case all the cameras drift at a different rate from each other so no one value of time stretch would work for all. We get the sync as close as we can, cut the piece and then adjust sync to eye in the cut. This same sort of per shot sync adjustment has always happened in concert projects, even when the sync was mathematically correct re: either film camera crystals or video genlock cabled off a master clock. Our rule is that in a concert project sync is in the eye of the beholder, and different angles and lens lengths of the same action will end up needing different sync offsets to look right, even if they were in dead sync to start with (especially for anything to be seen on the big screen). So since we know we'll have to tweak sync anyhow, we make the concert shooting lighter weight, simpler, w/more cameras than we could cable up and take advantage of the small size of newer cheaper non-genlockable cameras to get shots we couldn't have before. Our last shoot used 6 EX1s and several more lipstick and "icecube" cameras rigged to lighting battens, amps, drumsets etc. for a 100+ min set. The sync is way close enough to cut with, and we'll make the final sync calls in the online.
Philip Perkins
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Some means of recording the mix to a separate medium would be handy but recording a stereo mix to the same medium seems to me to be a bit of an invention looking for a use. Or am I being unimaginative? (which is entirely possible).
In film+video work we are expected to deliver a 2 track (stereo or split mono) recording for dailies and editorial, in addition to the iso tracks, so it is a useful feature in that sphere. All the high end multitrack file recorders as well as the computer-based ones can do this.
Philip Perkins
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Yes, you can do as you initially thought: six analog tracks and the digital input. Channels 7 and 8 are called the "Stereo Track," which I find a bit confusing. You have to tell the recorder whether you want the Stereo Track (channels 7 & 8) to be a mix or just the digital-in signal. This is in the REC menu, under the ST REC item. If you set it to digital input (DIN), you're set. But if you are using that for the mix and want channels 5 & 6 to be the digital-in tracks, then you further have to tell the recorder that. This is in the I/O menu under INPUT SEL.
So . . . if you have four or fewer analog tracks, you can record those to channels 1-4, the digital input to channels 5/6, and also record a mix of all the channels to the "Stereo Track" (if you want--you still have to arm the channels you want to be recorded). I did a choral concert Saturday with two stereo pairs of mics and a spot mic for soloists. One of my stereo pairs was digi-in (DAV BG-1>Mytek 192), recorded to 5 and 6. The other pair went into a second DAV and then line-in to channels 1 and 2. The spot mic went into channel 4. I used that instead of channel 3 only because it automatically defaulted to being panned to the right, which is roughly where I wanted it, so it was just convenient for monitoring. Not that I couldn't have adjusted the panning of channel 3 very easily, but there was no particular need; I just didn't arm channel 3 for recording. I guess I should mention I recorded this in mono file mode to avoid having an empty channel.
thanks, that helps a lot. ...and did you like how your recording sounded?
Philip Perkins
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After receiving my own DR-680 and testing I am going to do a mod for sure. I feel the pres are somewhat noisy but not bad sound just not enough clarity with a large low end. I plan to clean up the signal quite a bit while using op amps that give it better detail. I should have results within a week or two and will post some comp files when finished. i am measuring the stock specs here as well then will do an after mod test as well for specs on noise and thd.
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For the stereo mix, how much control is there in terms of levels and channels?
For example, let's say 1 and 2 are a SBD feed, 3 and 4 are stage lip mics, 5 and 6 are ambient mics. For 7 and 8, could I do a mix of just 1-4, since the room mics will have a little delay?
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After receiving my own DR-680 and testing I am going to do a mod for sure. I feel the pres are somewhat noisy but not bad sound just not enough clarity with a large low end. I plan to clean up the signal quite a bit while using op amps that give it better detail. I should have results within a week or two and will post some comp files when finished. i am measuring the stock specs here as well then will do an after mod test as well for specs on noise and thd.
Great news Chris...... thanks man!!!
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Just started mixing it last evening, but it sounds great thus far. Not sure how much of the sound really has to do with the recorder, though, since I used external preamps for everything but the spot and an external D/A for one of the pairs. Still, the recorder did what I needed it to do very well. No complaints at all.
thanks, that helps a lot. ...and did you like how your recording sounded?
Philip Perkins
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After receiving my own DR-680 and testing I am going to do a mod for sure. I feel the pres are somewhat noisy but not bad sound just not enough clarity with a large low end. I plan to clean up the signal quite a bit while using op amps that give it better detail. I should have results within a week or two and will post some comp files when finished. i am measuring the stock specs here as well then will do an after mod test as well for specs on noise and thd.
Keep us posted.
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I feel the pres are somewhat noisy
A-weighted EIN of -127dBu is bettered only by the FR2-LE (-129) and the SD722 (-130) in independent tests. For comparison, the Edirol R-09HR is down at -118. If you could make a economically justified improvement I guess that would bring it down to SD722 noise levels.
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After receiving my own DR-680 and testing I am going to do a mod for sure. I feel the pres are somewhat noisy but not bad sound just not enough clarity with a large low end. I plan to clean up the signal quite a bit while using op amps that give it better detail. I should have results within a week or two and will post some comp files when finished. i am measuring the stock specs here as well then will do an after mod test as well for specs on noise and thd.
Chris, as always You Rock! that is fantastic news
and I am sure some op amp mods will help!
cool
--Ian
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A couple of notes I have after doing some of my own tests today:
- It does work fine on a 9v DVD battery.
- With 8 AA batteries installed (internally) I pulled the external plug out and it continued recording without a hitch. So internal battery back-up works fine.
- Without batteries installed I pulled the external plug and it shut down. The WAV files were saved fine. The header was fine too. The files were not corrupted.
- The pre-amps are not noisy.
- There is plenty of gain in the LOW mic setting. I wasn't able to check if my mics overloaded it with concert level volume.
- The screen back-light stays on when using the external power source (9v DVD battery or AC). So that will negatively effect external battery life.
- It's fairly easy to use right off the bat. I did read the manual inside and out a number of times before it arrived.
- I like it.
I doubt I'll have much more time to mess with it before I use it to record this weekend.
Chuck ,
your reports sound excellent!
I doubt that the back light would really drain all that much more on an external battery, yes more draw but I would think it fairly negligible.
all in all this sounds very promising for us TS geeks!
thanx
--Ian
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A couple of notes I have after doing some of my own tests today:
- It does work fine on a 9v DVD battery.
- With 8 AA batteries installed (internally) I pulled the external plug out and it continued recording without a hitch. So internal battery back-up works fine.
- Without batteries installed I pulled the external plug and it shut down. The WAV files were saved fine. The header was fine too. The files were not corrupted.
- The pre-amps are not noisy.
- There is plenty of gain in the LOW mic setting. I wasn't able to check if my mics overloaded it with concert level volume.
- The screen back-light stays on when using the external power source (9v DVD battery or AC). So that will negatively effect external battery life.
- It's fairly easy to use right off the bat. I did read the manual inside and out a number of times before it arrived.
- I like it.
I doubt I'll have much more time to mess with it before I use it to record this weekend.
A couple of things to be wary of, if the power operations are anything like the HD-P2. The HD-P2 would automatically choose (and seamlessly switch between) the power source with the highest voltage. So even though an external 9V battery would "work", some people had issues when using an external 9V and AA's loaded at the same time. The 8 internal AA's would provide 12v, so even though a 9V external was connected and people thought that the deck was running off the external, the power was actually coming from the internal AA's. Also, some people found that if they left dead AA's inside the deck, and tried to power the deck with an external 9V, the deck still saw a higher voltage from the dead AA's (even though they were dead and had no juice), so it would try to use the internal AA's instead of the external 9V battery. This would result in the deck just not turning on until the internal battery's were removed.
So, all that said, while a 9V battery might work with the DR-680, if you are planning to use internal AA's as a back-up power source, it would probably be a good idea to get a real 12v external battery. There are plenty of fantastic 12v battery options now that don't involve lead-acid (the tekkeon, for example. there are many others as well).
On the other hand, maybe the DR-680 doesn't handle power sources in the same way as the HD-P2, and everything I just wrote is irrelevant. but I wouldn't want to find out at a show during a live recording, so it's probably worthwhile for someone to test the internal/external battery operation at home to determine what really happens and where the DR-680 is really drawing power.
the other thing that i would be concerned about is that 6 channels of phantom power turned on might be too much for a 9V battery. maybe I'm wrong and all 6 channels of phantom operate within spec (48v +/- 4V) with a 9V battery, but it's probably something else that should be tested. Also note that some mics are more amenable to a lower phantom power voltage than others.
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A couple of notes I have after doing some of my own tests today:
- It does work fine on a 9v DVD battery.
- With 8 AA batteries installed (internally) I pulled the external plug out and it continued recording without a hitch. So internal battery back-up works fine.
- Without batteries installed I pulled the external plug and it shut down. The WAV files were saved fine. The header was fine too. The files were not corrupted.
- The pre-amps are not noisy.
- There is plenty of gain in the LOW mic setting. I wasn't able to check if my mics overloaded it with concert level volume.
- The screen back-light stays on when using the external power source (9v DVD battery or AC). So that will negatively effect external battery life.
- It's fairly easy to use right off the bat. I did read the manual inside and out a number of times before it arrived.
- I like it.
I doubt I'll have much more time to mess with it before I use it to record this weekend.
A couple of things to be wary of, if the power operations are anything like the HD-P2. The HD-P2 would automatically choose (and seamlessly switch between) the power source with the highest voltage. So even though an external 9V battery would "work", some people had issues when using an external 9V and AA's loaded at the same time. The 8 internal AA's would provide 12v, so even though a 9V external was connected and people thought that the deck was running off the external, the power was actually coming from the internal AA's. Also, some people found that if they left dead AA's inside the deck, and tried to power the deck with an external 9V, the deck still saw a higher voltage from the dead AA's (even though they were dead and had no juice), so it would try to use the internal AA's instead of the external 9V battery. This would result in the deck just not turning on until the internal battery's were removed.
So, all that said, while a 9V battery might work with the DR-680, if you are planning to use internal AA's as a back-up power source, it would probably be a good idea to get a real 12v external battery. There are plenty of fantastic 12v battery options now that don't involve lead-acid (the tekkeon, for example. there are many others as well).
On the other hand, maybe the DR-680 doesn't handle power sources in the same way as the HD-P2, and everything I just wrote is irrelevant. but I wouldn't want to find out at a show during a live recording, so it's probably worthwhile for someone to test the internal/external battery operation at home to determine what really happens and where the DR-680 is really drawing power.
the other thing that i would be concerned about is that 6 channels of phantom power turned on might be too much for a 9V battery. maybe I'm wrong and all 6 channels of phantom operate within spec (48v +/- 4V) with a 9V battery, but it's probably something else that should be tested. Also note that some mics are more amenable to a lower phantom power voltage than others.
Jason, thanks for the heads up. I hadn't thought of that.
I'm doing the maiden run tonight for moe. So, I'll report back how that goes.
I'm running my old rig (V3 > iHP-120) as a back-up ;)
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No issues running (1) 9v Wally World DVD battery for moe. last night with the DR-680.
At the end, there was only (1) green light out...
That's about what I get when running the V3 on one of those batteries.
Metering isn't great. I also noticed that I got the "clip" indicator on the DR-680 many times when the V3 didn't show a clip. Being that the DR-680 "clip" indicator comes on at 2db below clipping that makes sense.
Pause and Record LEDS are too bright.
Volume changing wasn't difficult at all.
Edit to add links to my moe. recording from last night:
http://www.archive.org/details/moe.2010-04-15.C-461
http://bt.cotapers.org/torrents.php?id=402&torrentid=551
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So since we know we'll have to tweak sync anyhow, we make the concert shooting lighter weight, simpler, w/more cameras than we could cable up and take advantage of the small size of newer cheaper non-genlockable cameras to get shots we couldn't have before.
Agreed, I've been weighing the pro's and con's of this approach as well; but it just seems that you'd be making video edits based not only on artistic presentation, but also timing (e.g., I've got to fill "x" number of frames to sync this clip with the audio before cutting to this shot). And this workflow process must add considerable amount of edit time to the project, even if it is offset in the upfront production.
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A couple of notes I have after doing some of my own tests today:
- It does work fine on a 9v DVD battery.
- With 8 AA batteries installed (internally) I pulled the external plug out and it continued recording without a hitch. So internal battery back-up works fine.
- Without batteries installed I pulled the external plug and it shut down. The WAV files were saved fine. The header was fine too. The files were not corrupted.
- The pre-amps are not noisy.
- There is plenty of gain in the LOW mic setting. I wasn't able to check if my mics overloaded it with concert level volume.
- The screen back-light stays on when using the external power source (9v DVD battery or AC). So that will negatively effect external battery life.
- It's fairly easy to use right off the bat. I did read the manual inside and out a number of times before it arrived.
- I like it.
I doubt I'll have much more time to mess with it before I use it to record this weekend.
A couple of things to be wary of, if the power operations are anything like the HD-P2. The HD-P2 would automatically choose (and seamlessly switch between) the power source with the highest voltage. So even though an external 9V battery would "work", some people had issues when using an external 9V and AA's loaded at the same time. The 8 internal AA's would provide 12v, so even though a 9V external was connected and people thought that the deck was running off the external, the power was actually coming from the internal AA's. Also, some people found that if they left dead AA's inside the deck, and tried to power the deck with an external 9V, the deck still saw a higher voltage from the dead AA's (even though they were dead and had no juice), so it would try to use the internal AA's instead of the external 9V battery. This would result in the deck just not turning on until the internal battery's were removed.
So, all that said, while a 9V battery might work with the DR-680, if you are planning to use internal AA's as a back-up power source, it would probably be a good idea to get a real 12v external battery. There are plenty of fantastic 12v battery options now that don't involve lead-acid (the tekkeon, for example. there are many others as well).
On the other hand, maybe the DR-680 doesn't handle power sources in the same way as the HD-P2, and everything I just wrote is irrelevant. but I wouldn't want to find out at a show during a live recording, so it's probably worthwhile for someone to test the internal/external battery operation at home to determine what really happens and where the DR-680 is really drawing power.
the other thing that i would be concerned about is that 6 channels of phantom power turned on might be too much for a 9V battery. maybe I'm wrong and all 6 channels of phantom operate within spec (48v +/- 4V) with a 9V battery, but it's probably something else that should be tested. Also note that some mics are more amenable to a lower phantom power voltage than others.
I'm in this thread because this recorder has my attention as a potential replacement for my modded R44 -- but I won't part with my R44 easily, it's been so f'ing ROCK SOLID.
Anyway, just wanted to give Jason a shout out because I haven't been around TS for a while really, but I'm stilling shooting 5D2 photos and loads of HD video on your CF card still (check my website for some cool sh!t I've been doing lately)!!! It still says "Sobel" on the back of it, heh...
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So since we know we'll have to tweak sync anyhow, we make the concert shooting lighter weight, simpler, w/more cameras than we could cable up and take advantage of the small size of newer cheaper non-genlockable cameras to get shots we couldn't have before.
Agreed, I've been weighing the pro's and con's of this approach as well; but it just seems that you'd be making video edits based not only on artistic presentation, but also timing (e.g., I've got to fill "x" number of frames to sync this clip with the audio before cutting to this shot). And this workflow process must add considerable amount of edit time to the project, even if it is offset in the upfront production.
That isn't how it's worked out--as I said the drift isn't really that much anyhow, fine for a rough cut, and then final tweaks are done to sync if it is felt to be necessary. And as I've also said, those sync tweaks happen anyway in performance video--because even numerically correct sync often looks wrong, and many times shots are used over different music than was actually being played at that second (esp if multiple performances of the same music were shot). Add also the fact that the final music may end up being a composite of more than one performance--the best musical moments get married to the best shots etc.. So there isn't any real add to the post time, in our experience, at all.
Philip Perkins
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Edit to add links to my moe. recording from last night:
http://www.archive.org/details/moe.2010-04-15.C-461
http://bt.cotapers.org/torrents.php?id=402&torrentid=551
Sounds great Chuck. Look forward to hearing the 480s.
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- Can you turn off recording on some channels so you don't have to use up SDHC card space by recording 6 channels when for example you only want to record 4?
1. Yes, you can turn channels on and off as needed.
Sorry to be anal, but please confirm that if a channel is turned off, so no SDHC space is used for that channel. There was a question earlier in this thread about that function.
Has anyone who purchased this unit developed any regrets yet? No one commented on the earlier posts that "all these early units have problems."
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Sorry to be anal, but please confirm that if a channel is turned off, so no SDHC space is used for that channel. There was a question earlier in this thread about that function.
Yes, you can turn off unused channels that you don't want to record to. The unit defaults to recording all channels when it is booted up. But, you can turn them off, so that you don't waste memory card space.
Has anyone who purchased this unit developed any regrets yet? No one commented on the earlier posts that "all these early units have problems."
After recording 5 sets of music, so far, this weekend with mine. I like it more every time I use it.
Even the meters are growing on me. I'm not even bringing my V3 tonight for KHB & moe.
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After recording 5 sets of music, so far, this weekend with mine. I like it more every time I use it.
Even the meters are growing on me. I'm not even bringing my V3 tonight for KHB & moe.
+1
Loving this unit more and more every day!
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Sorry to be anal, but please confirm that if a channel is turned off, so no SDHC space is used for that channel. There was a question earlier in this thread about that function.
Yes, you can turn off unused channels that you don't want to record to. The unit defaults to recording all channels when it is booted up. But, you can turn them off, so that you don't waste memory card space.
Has anyone who purchased this unit developed any regrets yet? No one commented on the earlier posts that "all these early units have problems."
After recording 5 sets of music, so far, this weekend with mine. I like it more every time I use it.
Even the meters are growing on me. I'm not even bringing my V3 tonight for KHB & moe.
Are you generally running the DR680 with an external clock (like from a preamp w/ digital out)? Any opinion on whether it sounds better with an external clock vs internal?
(I've always felt that my MOTU stuff sounds better with a solid ext clock....)
Philip Perkins
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So far, I've been running everything on the DR-680 clock. Which brings up an interesting point. Last night I ran the V3 coax output into the DR-680. It worked perfectly when I set the V3 sample rate at 44.1kHz, which is how I have the DR-680 set. When I set the V3 sample rate on 48kHz, the DR-680 gave me an error message. It would not accept the digital signal from the V3 at 48kHz. The Tascam also truncates the 24 bit digital output from the V3 down to 16 bits when the Tascam is set to 16 bits. So, it is not possible to record 16 bit and 24 bit tracks on the Tascam at the same time.
That has got me wondering whether the Tascam re-samples the digital input. I'll have to test it sometime this week to see if the digital input does get re-sampled. To me, this isn't a deal breaker on the Tascam, but it is something that many people might not like.
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Seems to me that what you are describing is the Tascam refusing to resample, which is what would be expected.
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Seems to me that what you are describing is the Tascam refusing to resample, which is what would be expected.
I agree this is what he is describing, but I think what he was trying to point out is that the unit can't be set for all the analog inputs to record at one bit depth and/or sampling rate and send a different one in via the spidf input (i.e. set the analog channels to record at 24/44.1 and then try to also capture a 24/48 feed from an external AD).
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.. which doesn't surprise me. I'm not aware of any device which will record at multiple sample rates simultaneously.
But I don't know everything...
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If anyone has the server space to host it, I'd be happy to upload my 04-16-2010 moe. 16 bit recordings:
C-461 (DINa) > V3 > (coax out) > HR-680
C-461 (DINa) > HR-680
This is a direct comparison between the V3 pre-amp's and the HR-680's pre-amps. One pair of microphones was split between the two devices.
I'd like to upload the RAW files for one or both sets if that would be helpful to anyone.
Please PM me if you have the server space to spare. Thanks.
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Look forward to hearing the 480s.
C-483 > DR-680 recordings of moe. from 04-17-2010:
http://bt.cotapers.org/torrents.php?id=406&torrentid=558
http://www.archive.org/details/moe.2010-04-17.C-483
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OK, I hope this works...
I have uploaded two files:
http://www.filesavr.com/moe2010-04-161
http://www.filesavr.com/moe2010-04-163
One is AKG C 460 B comb/ CK61-ULS > Tascam HR-680 the other is AKG C 460 B comb/ CK61-ULS > V3
I didn't plan on doing it this way, but I left the file names ambiguous so you can listen and guess which is which.
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If anyone has the server space to host it, I'd be happy to upload my 04-16-2010 moe. 16 bit recordings:
C-461 (DINa) > V3 > (coax out) > HR-680
C-461 (DINa) > HR-680
This is a direct comparison between the V3 pre-amp's and the HR-680's pre-amps. One pair of microphones was split between the two devices.
I'd like to upload the RAW files for one or both sets if that would be helpful to anyone.
Please PM me if you have the server space to spare. Thanks.
Thanks for sharing the recordings. Was it a direct XLR out of the V3 or are you comparing adc's as well?
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It compares the A/D's as well:
C-461 (DINa) > V3 > (coax out) > HR-680
C-461 (DINa) > HR-680
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Listening to the Archive version of the moe. show now~~! >:D
First.. Thanks!
Second... Kyle !~!!
Clean, detailed, and crisp stock.
I think some chip mods addressing the slew rate may open her up a bit. But the noise is a non issue for rock concert taping to be sure.
Great box out of the box without being nearly as harsh as the SD boxes. Yeah I know you kids love them but they suffer from a very specific hardness to the sound.
What a fantastic solution with so many possibilities.
This sport is growing more fun by the moment.
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I e-mailed Tascam/Teac earlier this week with some questions about this recorder. Mr. Chang (Teac Engineer) just called me at home with the answers!
I asked him about the Recording Trim adjustments and some other things...
On the Recording Trim knob if you dial one click away from "0" you get a reading of .5 or -.5 depending on which way you turn the dial. But, above 1 and below -1 you have to dial two clicks to get to the next number, 2, 3, 4 etc... I thought it was a firmware glitch that the assumed .5 increments between the whole numbers didn't show on the screen. Mr. Chang confirmed that there are .5 dB increments between the whole numbers. He said there wasn't enough room on the display to show 13.5 or example, so the .5 increments don't and won't show between the whole numbers. He did say there is a firmware glitch that doesn't allow the .5 dB increments to be saved when the recorder is turned off though. That will be fixed in an upcoming firmware update.
Mr Chang did say that they are considering making the <2 dB from clipping indicator more customizable. For example showing an actual clip rather than a <2 dB from clip. Personally, I'd rather know when I actually am clipping, rather than knowing when I might be clipping.
He confirmed that the DR-680 does not re-sample when using the SPDIF input. He was proud to say that the DR-680 uses the AK4612 http://akm.com/prod_brief/AK4614_pb.pdf chip for the A/D section.
He didn't comment on what chips (instrumentation amps or op-amps) were used for the microphone pre-amp section. I'm sure someone will crack one open before I do to report what they are.
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I e-mailed Tascam/Teac earlier this week with some questions about this recorder. Mr. Chang (Teac Engineer) just called me at home with the answers!
I asked him about the Recording Trim adjustments and some other things...
On the Recording Trim knob if you dial one click away from "0" you get a reading of .5 or -.5 depending on which way you turn the dial. But, above 1 and below -1 you have to dial two clicks to get to the next number, 2, 3, 4 etc... I thought it was a firmware glitch that the assumed .5 increments between the whole numbers didn't show on the screen. Mr. Chang confirmed that there are .5 dB increments between the whole numbers. He said there wasn't enough room on the display to show 13.5 or example, so the .5 increments don't and won't show between the whole numbers. He did say there is a firmware glitch that doesn't allow the .5 dB increments to be saved when the recorder is turned off though. That will be fixed in an upcoming firmware update.
Mr Chang did say that they are considering making the <2 dB from clipping indicator more customizable. For example showing an actual clip rather than a <2 dB from clip. Personally, I'd rather know when I actually am clipping, rather than knowing when I might be clipping.
He confirmed that the DR-680 does not re-sample when using the SPDIF input. He was proud to say that the DR-680 uses the AK4612 http://akm.com/prod_brief/AK4614_pb.pdf chip for the A/D section.
He didn't comment on what chips (instrumentation amps or op-amps) were used for the microphone pre-amp section. I'm sure someone will crack one open before I do to report what they are.
Chang's a good guy--he helped me a lot in the early days w/ the HDP2 and time recording, particularly autostart recording and other esoteric features. Keep his number--he's one of the people at TEAC who really knows how the gear works. His involvment w/ the DR680--gives me some confidence that any issues will be worked out (he personally sent me several HDP2 firmware fixes back in the day).
Philip Perkins
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I've only owned a few pieces of Tascam equipment over the years and never had to contact them. After reading that some folks had negative experiences with Tascam customer support, I wasn't very hopeful about getting a reply to my e-mail. But, Mr. Chang was very helpful. I got the idea he would have stayed on the phone with me for as long as it took to answer all of my questions. I have to say that I was impressed.
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Thanks for sharing and your effort to inform us Great!
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I've only owned a few pieces of Tascam equipment over the years and never had to contact them. After reading that some folks had negative experiences with Tascam customer support, I wasn't very hopeful about getting a reply to my e-mail. But, Mr. Chang was very helpful. I got the idea he would have stayed on the phone with me for as long as it took to answer all of my questions. I have to say that I was impressed.
Is Mr. Chang well versed on service-type issues, or just how to use the gear? I wonder if I should try to contact him about my rusting HD-P2. The service manager (Jim) never got back to me about it (though he was on vacation last week -- he said he was going to try to get it resolved before he left for vacation). If I don't hear from him next week, maybe I'll try Mr. Chang.
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Hello all,
First post here.
Thanks for a great forum.
Has anyone tested how long the DR680 will work, when using phantom power and internal rechargable batteries?
Im using an ancient FR2, that sucks the life out of the 8 AA´s in 1,5 hours, without the phantom on. The unit has some power issues too, when working with certain mics. So Im on the lookout for something new.
Best wishes,
Mikkel
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Hello all,
First post here.
Thanks for a great forum.
Has anyone tested how long the DR680 will work, when using phantom power and internal rechargable batteries?
Im using an ancient FR2, that sucks the life out of the 8 AA´s in 1,5 hours, without the phantom on. The unit has some power issues too, when working with certain mics. So Im on the lookout for something new.
Best wishes,
Mikkel
I plan to do some torture tests on mine this weekend, if I can get all my honey-doo's done...
I'm going to run sine waves and noise into it and figure out it's gain structure. Then the battery test. I want to find out at what voltage it switches over from external to internal batteries. I'll test my Eveready 2500 mAh batteries in it too...to see how long it runs.
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Looking forward to that.
Thanks alot:)
Best wishes,
Mikkel
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These are the results of the tests I did this afternoon. I ran white noise, 1 kHz & 100 Hz sine wavs into it and monitored with the coax output connected to my PC in WaveLab.
There were really no surprises at all.
The Recording Trim control works in .5 dB steps the one step between the whole numbers is .5 dB, but it does not show that on the display.
The channels track together very well. I assume that's because of digital controls, rather than analog pots. On my box all the inputs matched each other well within +/- 1 dB. Channels 3 & 4 were +/- .1 dB in the MIC (LOW) setting.
There is a 23.5 dB step between Line In & MIC In (LOW)
There is another 23.5 dB step between MIC In (LOW) & MIC In (HIGH)
The "Clip" indicator does show when you are <2 dB from clipping. I hope they can make that user selectable to show a real clip in a new firmware release. The meters on the DR-680 matched up very well with the readings I was getting in WaveLab. I also tested them against the meters on a Rockboxed iHP-120. Which I have learned to trust. They matched up very well.
The optional Limiter kicks in around 4 dB from 0, and acts like a brick wall. It just chops the top off of the WAVs. It wasn't pretty. Needless to say, I won't be using that function.
Knowing that the way you wired the TRS inputs on the MicroTrack II for unbalanced input was so important, I made two sets of cables. One set tied Pins 1 & 3 together at the input, Pin 2 hot. The other cables ran pin 3 to the ground on the unbalanced cable, Pin 2 hot and Pin 1 (Ground) not tied to the unbalanced ground, "floating".
As Mr. Chang had told me it really didn't matter which wiring to use, I confirmed that there was no difference in the noise when using either set of cables. < I would defer to someone that has the proper test equipment on this one though. I used my ears and the meters in WaveLab to make that judgement.
I'm testing batteries and external power now...
If anyone has any other ideas for tests, let me know.
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The "Clip" indicator does show when you are <2 dB from clipping.
Maybe they were thinking of preventing intersample peaks which don't necessarily show on the meters.
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I loaded the DR-680 with (8) fully charged 2450 mAh Energizer NiMH batteries.
I ran (1) pair of AKG C-480's, (1) pair of AKG C-460's and a pair of Naiant MSH-1O's. So, I had phantom power on for three sets of mics. Low gain with all channels recording.
The recorder shut off after 2 hours and 22 minutes.
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I'd like to take a look at a DR680 sound file recorded as BWF filetype, if you can post it. I'd like to see what TC apps like WaveAgent and BWAV reader make of it.
Philip Perkins
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I'd like to take a look at a DR680 sound file recorded as BWF filetype, if you can post it. I'd like to see what TC apps like WaveAgent and BWAV reader make of it.
Philip Perkins
I recorded a one minute file and uploaded it here:
http://www.filesavr.com/100425039st12
100425_039_st12.wav
It saved as a .WAV on the SDHC card. I expected it to save as .BWF... but it didn't.
Let me know if that works for you.
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I loaded the DR-680 with (8) fully charged 2450 mAh Energizer NiMH batteries.
I ran (1) pair of AKG C-480's, (1) pair of AKG C-460's and a pair of Naiant MSH-1O's. So, I had phantom power on for three sets of mics. Low gain with all channels recording.
The recorder shut off after 2 hours and 22 minutes.
Thats quite impressive for 6 mics on phantom, isnt it?
Thanks for testing.
Mikkel
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I loaded the DR-680 with (8) fully charged 2450 mAh Energizer NiMH batteries.
I ran (1) pair of AKG C-480's, (1) pair of AKG C-460's and a pair of Naiant MSH-1O's. So, I had phantom power on for three sets of mics. Low gain with all channels recording.
The recorder shut off after 2 hours and 22 minutes.
Thats quite impressive for 6 mics on phantom, isnt it?
Thanks for testing.
Mikkel
Marginal. It's probably not long enough that people would want to rely solely on the internal batteries for 6 channel recording, however most probably wouldn't do that anyway, so probably no big deal.
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I loaded the DR-680 with (8) fully charged 2450 mAh Energizer NiMH batteries.
I ran (1) pair of AKG C-480's, (1) pair of AKG C-460's and a pair of Naiant MSH-1O's. So, I had phantom power on for three sets of mics. Low gain with all channels recording.
The recorder shut off after 2 hours and 22 minutes.
Thats quite impressive for 6 mics on phantom, isnt it?
Thanks for testing.
Mikkel
Marginal. It's probably not long enough that people would want to rely solely on the internal batteries for 6 channel recording, however most probably wouldn't do that anyway, so probably no big deal.
I got between 5 and 6 hours on my 9v Wally DVD batteries. So, 5-6 hours plus 2+ from the internals is plenty for any taping situation I encounter.
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I'd like to take a look at a DR680 sound file recorded as BWF filetype, if you can post it. I'd like to see what TC apps like WaveAgent and BWAV reader make of it.
Philip Perkins
I recorded a one minute file and uploaded it here:
http://www.filesavr.com/100425039st12
100425_039_st12.wav
It saved as a .WAV on the SDHC card. I expected it to save as .BWF... but it didn't.
Let me know if that works for you.
Thanks very much for the file, this was very helpful. BWFs save as .wav anymore--the bwf suffix has been dropped because it caused all kinds of trouble.
The file imported into BWAV Reader just fine as a BWF. (This app will throw an error if it thinks an import is an ordinary .wav file w/o metadata). It shows bext and other data chunks, reads as PCM 44.1 16 bit, with a TC start time of 20:07:00:23. Interestingly, the origination time is given as 20:08:03, whichI find odd since I thought the DR680 used its internal clock for TC stamping. It sees the filename as 100425_039_st12.wav. There is no frame rate shown, no description, originator or coding history. (Another note--the DR680
shows more chunk info than TC stamped BWFs recorded on an HDP2, but the HDP2 shows frame rate and originator.)
I imported the same file into Sound Devices Wave Agent. It shows the file as a 2 channel poly BWF, start TC 20:07:00:23, gives length and record date and sample rate and samples since midnight. Again, no scene/tape/take info, and no frame rate shown. (One could batch convert all the files to a project frame rate in this app...)
I take this to mean that one could record a TC/BWF job with this machine, and then add the frame rate info in WA if desired. One's TC notes might be a bit off from what the visible clock would say (I guess), since the time stamp seems at variance from the origination time (according to BWAV Reader) by over a minute.
thanks
Philip Perkins
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Glad I could help.
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I recorded a few shows with the Tascam DR-680 this past weekend and I am really blown away by this recorder. You simply can't beat it for the price. It is rock solid and so easy to use.
You can use the stock preamps and still get a great recording. Here is an mp3 sample of Schoeps CCM4's > Tascam DR-680:
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I just ordered mine from Full Compass. ;D They are on backorder, but for $812 shipped, I couldn't resist. Hopefully they get some in stock soon, though I'm in no particular rush since I still have a Sony D50 to record with.
Thanks again to Chuck for his efforts to test the 680 out and provide me with comps to listen to.
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I'm hoping someone (Chuck??) will have a chance to run a particular test. I want to know what happens when the digi input gets interrupted.
By that I mean, we have these known experiences in other cases....
- if I'm running optical into an iRiver, and have a glitch, you get a "skip" where music is missing while it resyncs.
- if I'm running SPDIF > R4, I get a "gap" in the music... the deck keeps rolling, but amplitude goes to zero, and then when it resyncs it continues
- It seems to be the case for SPDIF > Microtrack, that the MT locks up hard, and you have to pull the battery to recover.
And it would be interesting to test it using the internal clock, and also clocked to the V3. Unplug the SPDIF, and then plug it back in.
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I'm hoping someone (Chuck??) will have a chance to run a particular test. I want to know what happens when the digi input gets interrupted.
By that I mean, we have these known experiences in other cases....
- if I'm running optical into an iRiver, and have a glitch, you get a "skip" where music is missing while it resyncs.
- if I'm running SPDIF > R4, I get a "gap" in the music... the deck keeps rolling, but amplitude goes to zero, and then when it resyncs it continues
- It seems to be the case for SPDIF > Microtrack, that the MT locks up hard, and you have to pull the battery to recover.
And it would be interesting to test it using the internal clock, and also clocked to the V3. Unplug the SPDIF, and then plug it back in.
Sure, I'll test that this weekend.
I'm not sure what you mean about testing the internal clock that way though. For the V3, I can just pull the coax out and see how the DR-680 handles it. How do you want me to test the internal clock on the 680?
I've been making new silver clad cables for the DR-680 over the past week. I'm in deep...
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Sure, I'll test that this weekend.
I'm not sure what you mean about testing the internal clock that way though. For the V3, I can just pull the coax out and see how the DR-680 handles it. How do you want me to test the internal clock on the 680?
I've been making new silver clad cables for the DR-680 over the past week. I'm in deep...
I was thinking you could set the 680 to either (a) use it's internal clock or (b) lock onto the clock the V3 puts out via it's SPDIF. Now that I look through the manual again, I guess I was mistaken and I was thinking of some other device I was reading the manual for. Sorry about that. So yes, it's one test, not two.
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I thought the silver clad cable was a little too stiff to use for the RCA to TRS cable, so used some Belden 1508a.
I'll use this to connect my littlebox kit pre-amp to channels 5 & 6 on the DR-680.
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Screen shot in WaveLab of what happens when you pull the digital cable out then plug it back in when recording from a V3.
The DR-680 gives the error message: DIN Unlock
Which means the 680 is expecting to see a digital input, but it is not there.
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Excellent. That's exactly what I hoped would happen. If the upstream source dies, the 680 continues with the other 6 channels, and when it can recover, it recovers.
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Here is my first show running Milabs straight into the DR-680. I did use XLR splitters to also run a V2 comparison which I will add a link to soon. The DR-680 had phanton on, low gain setting, and gain at 0 (unity). I had to boost levels about 5dB in post.
The Tascam held its own even better than I expected.
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=534839&dllist=1#leechers (http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=534839&dllist=1#leechers)
Widespread Panic
BOK Center
Tulsa, OK
May 1, 2010
Source: Milab VM-44 Link -> XLR Splitter -> Tascam DR-680 (24/48)
Location: FOB/DFC/7 ft high
Transfer: SDHC Card > AudioGate (Normalize/Dither/Resample/Fades) > CD Wave > FLAC Frontend (Level 6)
Set 1:
01. Glory
02. Holden Oversoul >
03. Stop/Go >
04. Weak Brain, Narrow Mind >
05. Hatfield
06. Papa Johnny Road
07. Old Neighborhood >
08. Big Wooly Mammoth >
09. Who Do You Belong To?
Set 2:
01. Chilly Water
02. Time Zones
03. 1 X 1
04. Flicker >
05. Jam >
06. Surprise Valley >
07. Drums >
08. Papa Legba >
09. Surprise Valley >
10. Let's Get The Show On The Road
11. Conrad the Caterpillar
ENCORE:
12. Impossible >
13. Makes Sense To Me
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I am a bit confused about the Coax Digital Output. In the manual page 14 is written:
Transmission occurs at double speed with Sampling 96 kHz and at quad speed with 192kHz Recorderd sampling rate..
No real time playback? Are they kidding?
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I am a bit confused about the Coax Digital Output. In the manual page 14 is written:
Transmission occurs at double speed with Sampling 96 kHz and at quad speed with 192kHz Recorderd sampling rate..
No real time playback? Are they kidding?
It outputs exactly what you set the sample rate and bit rate to for recording. The wording is just goofy.
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It outputs exactly what you set the sample rate and bit rate to for recording. The wording is just goofy.
[/quote]
..ok otherwise it makes no sense TNX
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Just marking this thread. Carry on.
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Hoping to hear more anecdotal feedback from owners about the built in preamps.....specifically those going mics straight in.....any signs of premature overloading at higher spl's to report?
Good thread, so far.
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Hoping to hear more anecdotal feedback from owners about the built in preamps.....specifically those going mics straight in.....any signs of premature overloading at higher spl's to report?
Good thread, so far.
There is no problem with running typical condenser microphones directly into the DR-680. I've used AKG C-460, C-480 & Nakamichi CM300 with good results . Even with concert sound levels the DR-680 pre-amps don't overload in the low mic setting.
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Well, 1st outing with the 680 last night. Can't report on the sound yet pulling the files off ow. I can report on the ease of use. IN fact, my mothers flight was delayed getting in so I had to leave the show just before the band came on. My wife took the 5 minute tutorial about setting levels. Now that's not a big deal for us but this is a woman who after 23 years of marriage to me has NEVER even hit the pause button on any of my decks. The huge irony of this situation is that one of my taper buddies showed up just in time to get it rolling and set levels....but my wife went and checked to make sure they where where I told her to set them. If she can run this deck then anyone can. Very easy, very intuitive. and while I thought the meters were lacking they layout actually works just fine.
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Well, 1st outing with the 680 last night. Can't report on the sound yet pulling the files off ow. I can report on the ease of use. IN fact, my mothers flight was delayed getting in so I had to leave the show just before the band came on. My wife took the 5 minute tutorial about setting levels. Now that's not a big deal for us but this is a woman who after 23 years of marriage to me has NEVER even hit the pause button on any of my decks. The huge irony of this situation is that one of my taper buddies showed up just in time to get it rolling and set levels....but my wife went and checked to make sure they where where I told her to set them. If she can run this deck then anyone can. Very easy, very intuitive. and while I thought the meters were lacking they layout actually works just fine.
nice
but i would have sent her to the airport and watched the levels myself >:D
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Gotta pick your battles...she played the Mothers day card and I couldn't trump that one.
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Gotta pick your battles...she played the Mothers day card and I couldn't trump that one.
Wow...you better defend the sanctity and honor of the male gender and flip out the pay-back card on Father's Day.
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Add these to the list of working SDHC cards:
16GB Polaroid/PNY class 4
16GB Transcend Class 6
Both performed flawlessly
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New firmware out today:
http://www.tascam.com/products/dr-680;9,12,3868,19.html
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Adds mp3 recording on up to 4 tracks at once, some bug fixes, some operation procedure alterations. Battery monitoring / shutdown method changed, NB. There's a pdf of the release notes in the download.
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So what vendor has the best $$ deal on one of these? I haven't seen much discussion about how much they are going for. I can't really afford one any which way but I'm never beyond the notion of taxing a credit card as so far all the reports have been very positive on this recorder.
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I have one of these in hand. Planning to test it out this Thursday at the Bottle Rockets. Seems pretty sweet after playing with it for about an hour.
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So what vendor has the best $$ deal on one of these? I haven't seen much discussion about how much they are going for. I can't really afford one any which way but I'm never beyond the notion of taxing a credit card as so far all the reports have been very positive on this recorder.
Fullcompass has them for $812 shipped, which is the cheapest I found, but they are back-ordered. I'm not sure what the cheapest price is for vendors that actually have stock.
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$812 is a pretty amazing price for an 8-track recorder that so far gets good marks.
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Here is my first show running Milabs straight into the DR-680. I did use XLR splitters to also run a V2 comparison which I will add a link to soon. The DR-680 had phanton on, low gain setting, and gain at 0 (unity). I had to boost levels about 5dB in post.
The Tascam held its own even better than I expected.
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=534839 (http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=534839)
Widespread Panic
BOK Center
Tulsa, OK
May 1, 2010
Source: Milab VM-44 Link -> XLR Splitter -> Tascam DR-680 (24/48)
Location: FOB/DFC/7 ft high
Transfer: SDHC Card > AudioGate (Normalize/Dither/Resample/Fades) > CD Wave > FLAC Frontend (Level 6)
Set 1:
01. Glory
02. Holden Oversoul >
03. Stop/Go >
04. Weak Brain, Narrow Mind >
05. Hatfield
06. Papa Johnny Road
07. Old Neighborhood >
08. Big Wooly Mammoth >
09. Who Do You Belong To?
Set 2:
01. Chilly Water
02. Time Zones
03. 1 X 1
04. Flicker >
05. Jam >
06. Surprise Valley >
07. Drums >
08. Papa Legba >
09. Surprise Valley >
10. Let's Get The Show On The Road
11. Conrad the Caterpillar
ENCORE:
12. Impossible >
13. Makes Sense To Me
Here is the comparison using the V2 as preamp:
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=534975 (http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=534975)
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Matt, I downloaded Glory, Holden, and Stop Go from the 680 pre. Sounds damn good.
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I hesitate to post this, but I have tested it enough to know it's an issue worth mentioning.
I have a recording problem with my DR-680... *
I'm using the 16 GB Transcend TS16GSDHC6 SDHC card. That card is on the DR-680 Tested Media List.
When the card gets almost half full (around 7.5 GB), I get an error message:
File Error
Press [Enter]
When I press Enter, I get another error message:
Writing Failed
...and the file(s) write to the card as 0KB WAV files.
I have tested this a number of times, with 16 and 24 bit WAVs, recording stereo or 6-8 channel... with a freshly formated card. Always, when my 16 GB card gets close to half filled up, I get that error message.
The manual says when you get that error message contact TEAC Repair Center.
I have contacted Mr. Chang at TEAC about this. I'll report back when I hear from him.
Has anyone else seen this error or had any other problems with any other SDHC cards?
I'm hoping it's just a compatibility issue. I don't have any other large SDHC cards to test with though.
* Edit:
To add that the issue was with the Transcend 16 GB SDHC card I was using, not the recorder.
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That's disconcerting!
Is this happening with the new firmware or the old firmware? If it's the latest firmware, did you have a problem like this with the older firmware? If it's the older firmware that it is happening with, then maybe it's time to upgrade the firmware. If it's the new firmware and it didn't happen on the old firmware, it seems like it would be good to downgrade to the older firmware if that is allowable.
Hopefully Tascam can get this fixed or the card turns out to be bad. <8GB means only about 4 hours of 24/44.1 recording on four channels, which is barely enough to get an opening act + 2 set main act recorded, forgetting the fact that that would be leaving half the channels idle.
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That's disconcerting!
Is this happening with the new firmware or the old firmware? If it's the latest firmware, did you have a problem like this with the older firmware? If it's the older firmware that it is happening with, then maybe it's time to upgrade the firmware. If it's the new firmware and it didn't happen on the old firmware, it seems like it would be good to downgrade to the older firmware if that is allowable.
Hopefully Tascam can get this fixed or the card turns out to be bad. <8GB means only about 4 hours of 24/44.1 recording on four channels, which is barely enough to get an opening act + 2 set main act recorded, forgetting the fact that that would be leaving half the channels idle.
I have had the same problem with both firmwares 1.0 and 1.10.
It's strange, because after formating the card in the recorder, it shows that the card has 15+ GB of space. I agree that 8GB is not enough memory card space. I wonder, are SDHC cards returnable? I could go to Walmart or Target and get another brand to see if that's the problem. I'd just hate to get stuck paying full retail for a card that I only used for testing purposes.
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Didn't the same thing happen with the 16 GB Transcend cards and the R-44?
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,103270.15.html
What class are you using?
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Didn't the same thing happen with the 16 GB Transcend cards and the R-44?
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,103270.15.html
What class are you using?
Thanks, I'll start reading...
I bought this card used on eBay. It's a 16GB class 6 Transcend card.
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I hesitate to post this, but I have tested it enough to know it's an issue worth mentioning.
I have a recording problem with my DR-680...
I'm using the 16 GB Transcend TS16GSDHC6 SDHC card. That card is on the DR-680 Tested Media List.
When the card gets almost half full (around 7.5 GB), I get an error message:
File Error
Press [Enter]
When I press Enter, I get another error message:
Writing Failed
...and the file(s) write to the card as 0KB WAV files.
I have tested this a number of times, with 16 and 24 bit WAVs, recording stereo or 6-8 channel... with a freshly formated card. Always, when my 16 GB card gets close to half filled up, I get that error message.
The manual says when you get that error message contact TEAC Repair Center.
I have contacted Mr. Chang at TEAC about this. I'll report back when I hear from him.
Has anyone else seen this error or had any other problems with any other SDHC cards?
I'm hoping it's just a compatibility issue. I don't have any other large SDHC cards to test with though.
Got a similar error and resultant 0kb file, but once only without ever being able to repeat it, upon hitting the gigabyte autosplit with a Tascam DR-2D using a 16 GB Kingston SDHC card.
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I'm using the 16 GB Transcend TS16GSDHC6 SDHC card. That card is on the DR-680 Tested Media List.
When the card gets almost half full (around 7.5 GB), I get an error message:
The HD-P2 would only fill up 8gb on a 16gb card.
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I have filled my HP 16GB SDHC card several times and have had no errors. I believe it's only a class 4 card. I was also running 8 channels.
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Good news.
Is it this one?
http://www.techforless.com/cgi-bin/tech4less/Q6305A?id=6gTtq6DW&mv_pc=4089
I'm going to pick one up after work tonight.
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The HD-P2 would only fill up 8gb on a 16gb card.
with v1.06 firmware hd-p2 will fill a 16gb card.
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Did 7.85GB on transcend 16GB class 6 with no problems at all last weekend, using older firmware.
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Good news.
Is it this one?
http://www.techforless.com/cgi-bin/tech4less/Q6305A?id=6gTtq6DW&mv_pc=4089
I'm going to pick one up after work tonight.
That's it. Bought mine for $28 at Fryes.
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Thanks Matt! I'm testing one in my DR-680 right now. :)
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Well, the PNY HP Q6305A 16 GB card got past 1/2 way without a hitch. It started new files at 2GB (24 bit, 44.1kHz - 8 tracks recording) and kept going.
That's good news.
I'll have a Transcend Class 6, 16GB SDHC card for sale in the Yard Sale soon.
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I spoke with Mr. Chang tonight about my SDHC card issue.
He attributed the problems to possible differences in individual components, from parts suppliers in the two cards.
I'm sticking with the PNY HP card.
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I spoke with Mr. Chang tonight about my SDHC card issue.
He attributed the problems to possible differences in individual components, from parts suppliers in the two cards.
I'm sticking with the PNY HP card.
Well at least it looks like there is resolution on this.
I'm using the 16 GB Transcend TS16GSDHC6 SDHC card. That card is on the DR-680 Tested Media List.
Be sure and let Mr. Chang know that the card should be REMOVED from the tested media list. :laugh:
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Add the Patriot 16GB class 6 sdhc card to the working list.
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I'm using the 16 GB Transcend TS16GSDHC6 SDHC card. That card is on the DR-680 Tested Media List.
Be sure and let Mr. Chang know that the card should be REMOVED from the tested media list. :laugh:
This card should NOT be removed from the tested media list until someone else can duplicate the same problems that Chuck had. I use the same 16GB Transcend in my DR-680 without any problems whatsoever. I have filled the entire card several times without any incidents. I believe that there may be something wrong with Chuck's card in particular (or perhaps poor quality control by Transcend).
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I bought this card used on eBay.
I don't own a DR-680, but that statement above raises a red flag. Have you tried the card out in a PC to make sure that it actually stores 16 GB and isn't a fake that claims 16 GB but only has 8?
Ebay is about the last place on earth I'd consider going for flash media...
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I bought this card used on eBay.
I don't own a DR-680, but that statement above raises a red flag. Have you tried the card out in a PC to make sure that it actually stores 16 GB and isn't a fake that claims 16 GB but only has 8?
Ebay is about the last place on earth I'd consider going for flash media...
Yeah, after the first time I tested it in the DR-680 and had a problem, I ran CardTest 1.2a on it.
It's a real 16GB SDHC card. For whatever reason, it just didn't play nice with my recorder.
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on Chuck's request I tested my Transcend class 6 32 Gb card
running 8 channels at 24/48 it ran for 8 hours and totally filled the card
I also have a Verbatim class 6, and assume I will get the same results
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I also have a Verbatim class 6, and assume I will get the same results
Not necessarily a good assumption. Given that you can never be sure with cards - and no brand seems to be immune to occasional failures - I'd recommend filling any new card end-to-end at home once if not twice before using it for real for anything at all important.
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on Chuck's request I tested my Transcend class 6 32 Gb card
running 8 channels at 24/48 it ran for 8 hours and totally filled the card
I also have a Verbatim class 6, and assume I will get the same results
That's very good news, thanks darby!
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I also have a Verbatim class 6, and assume I will get the same results
Not necessarily a good assumption. Given that you can never be sure with cards - and no brand seems to be immune to occasional failures - I'd recommend filling any new card end-to-end at home once if not twice before using it for real for anything at all important.
when I can find 8 hours to let my gear set and just record I'll do it
maybe I will tonite while I'm out getting other stuff done
I have been using cards now for 4 years and never felt the need to fill them before using them ???
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How is the machine for Playback with Ripped CD`s?
My SONY PCM 50 cannot even play MP3 in the right order 1.....50 Stupid...
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I also have a Verbatim class 6, and assume I will get the same results
Not necessarily a good assumption. Given that you can never be sure with cards - and no brand seems to be immune to occasional failures - I'd recommend filling any new card end-to-end at home once if not twice before using it for real for anything at all important.
when I can find 8 hours to let my gear set and just record I'll do it
maybe I will tonite while I'm out getting other stuff done
I have been using cards now for 4 years and never felt the need to fill them before using them ???
Here's the long winded version of what happened:
I was just testing the auto split function, which happens to be at right around the 8GB point when running 8 tracks, the splits are at 2GB for stereo files. Because, I saw the error once when testing the auto split function before the firmware upgrade. I upgraded the firmware soon after and saw it happen again with the new firmware. So, I ran a third test and watched the deck during the crucial time. When the error popped up the third time, I knew something was wrong. That's when I posted here. I'm lucky enough to live very close to Tech-For-Less, a nationwide bulk buyer warehouse. After speaking with the sales guy I always use, he said I could try any of the 16GB cards they had in stock. I dashed over there, tried the HP/PNY 16GB card that was recommended on this thread. It worked. I did have a chance to run a utility on the Transcend card, but the card passed the tests... Also, the card utility on the DR-680 reported that the card could hold 16 GB of files. I figured that that particular card, didn't work in my recorder. Soon after, I spoke with Mr. Chang who felt the issue was with the exact card that I used, not all Transcend 16 GB cards. I'm probably going to get another one of the PNY/HP class 4 SDHC cards at TFL, since it is very cheap and I don't have to pay or wait for it to be shipped.
So, to recap:
Mr Chang at TASCAM believes that one particular Transcend, Class 6, 16 GB SDHC card didn't work in my particular recorder.
I have found that one HP/PNY, Class 4, 16GB SDHC card does work in my particular recorder.
I hope that was thorough enough to fill in all the gaps and questions. If not, let me know.
I still love this thing! :coolguy:
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Can someone post a link for the "9v DVD batteries" that folks have mentioned using with this deck? I have a DR-680 en route to me and am trying to understand my external power options...all of my current gear still runs on EcoCharge batteries, so I'm trying to understand what folks are currently using and get with the 21st Century.
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Transcend card update:
The Transcend SDHC card I bought had two 8GB partitions on it. That's why it showed 16GB of space in the DR-680, but stopped recording after the first partition was filled up. So, my experience should not dissuade you from using the Transcend 16GB SDHC card.
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Did you see the partitions on the computer? How did you discover this?
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Did you see the partitions on the computer? How did you discover this?
I sold the card to vanark after I bought the PNY/HP card. I told him the Transcend card only recorded up to the 8GB mark on my recorder, he looked into it. I'm not sure how, but he discovered that it had two 8GB partitions on it.
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Heh, blindingly obvious now you come to mention it - but I'm not alone in not having thought of that!
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So if i understand this thread correctly...
The dr-680 has surprisingly clean preamps, approaching the "great" status? A stable, easy to use interface. Intelligent power management when hooked to external sources. "Decent" life off of AA batteries and a Rugged-enough build.
So, overall, its a great device and aside from making sure your memory cards are formatted correctly, there isnt any reason not to rush out and pick one up?
Does that seem accurate?
My main use will be indy-film dialog. I have a SD mix-pre that i feed line level into a r09 and am very happy with the sound. Anybody think I'll be losing anything substantial moving to a dr-680 direct to the mics? (my main dialog mic is a schoeps, but i have oktava and sanken lavaliers that I'd like to be able to multitrack at times)
Thanks for any input! (i'm in rural New Zealand, so i have zero chance of test driving anything before i buy... i am forced to trust the thoughts of opinionated strangers on the internet. doh!)
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Hello,
New member here as well as a new owner of the dr680. I picked up this recorder about a week ago and finally got a chance to use it for a short film. So far it held up being inside my petrol bag in the Texas heat and for the most part functioned prefectly.
I was wondering if anyone had encountered a weird problem where the battery status indicator is replaced by the AC power icon even when it's only running on internal batteries? The unit still preformed fine, but it was basically a guessing game as to how much power I had left. Additionally I have not updated the firmware yet, but I didn't see anything in the notes that addressed this problem specifically.
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So if i understand this thread correctly...
The dr-680 has surprisingly clean preamps, approaching the "great" status? A stable, easy to use interface. Intelligent power management when hooked to external sources. "Decent" life off of AA batteries and a Rugged-enough build.
So, overall, its a great device and aside from making sure your memory cards are formatted correctly, there isnt any reason not to rush out and pick one up?
Does that seem accurate?
My main use will be indy-film dialog. I have a SD mix-pre that i feed line level into a r09 and am very happy with the sound. Anybody think I'll be losing anything substantial moving to a dr-680 direct to the mics? (my main dialog mic is a schoeps, but i have oktava and sanken lavaliers that I'd like to be able to multitrack at times)
Thanks for any input! (i'm in rural New Zealand, so i have zero chance of test driving anything before i buy... i am forced to trust the thoughts of opinionated strangers on the internet. doh!)
I have approximately the same setup and would also be interested by some feedback on the dr-680 compared to mixpre+r09/d50.
Kind regards,
JM.
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Hello,
New member here as well as a new owner of the dr680. I picked up this recorder about a week ago and finally got a chance to use it for a short film. So far it held up being inside my petrol bag in the Texas heat and for the most part functioned prefectly.
I was wondering if anyone had encountered a weird problem where the battery status indicator is replaced by the AC power icon even when it's only running on internal batteries? The unit still preformed fine, but it was basically a guessing game as to how much power I had left. Additionally I have not updated the firmware yet, but I didn't see anything in the notes that addressed this problem specifically.
I had that happen the only time I ran internal NiMH "AA"s
and ended up losing the second set of the show when that set of batteries died after less than 2 hours of use
I ran 2 sets that evening and the same thing happened on the first set but I was able to get it before the batteries died
when I went back thru the menu I had the battery indicator set for Alkaline instead of NiMH
which meant the indicator was looking for higher voltage than the NiMH were capable of giving
I have been using mostly AC power since, but did run DVD batteries the other night for the first time
and ran 1 set that was 2 hours and only dropped 1 bar on the battery indicator
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I have been using mostly AC power since, but did run DVD batteries the other night for the first time
and ran 1 set that was 2 hours and only dropped 1 bar on the battery indicator
Yeah, the DVD batteries will run the DR-680 for a while.
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Don't know if anyone compared Nakguy's recordings from WSP in Tulsa, but here is my take. He ran Milab VM-44 Links split between a V2>line in, and directly mic in using the DR-680's internal stock preamps. IMO, while the internal preamps are clear and present sounding, my ears liked the V2 in front a tad better. The bass and mid-range sounded fuller, and the highs were not a harsh with the V2.
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So if i understand this thread correctly...
The dr-680 has surprisingly clean preamps, approaching the "great" status? A stable, easy to use interface. Intelligent power management when hooked to external sources. "Decent" life off of AA batteries and a Rugged-enough build.
So, overall, its a great device and aside from making sure your memory cards are formatted correctly, there isnt any reason not to rush out and pick one up?
Does that seem accurate?
My main use will be indy-film dialog. I have a SD mix-pre that i feed line level into a r09 and am very happy with the sound. Anybody think I'll be losing anything substantial moving to a dr-680 direct to the mics? (my main dialog mic is a schoeps, but i have oktava and sanken lavaliers that I'd like to be able to multitrack at times)
Thanks for any input! (i'm in rural New Zealand, so i have zero chance of test driving anything before i buy... i am forced to trust the thoughts of opinionated strangers on the internet. doh!)
I have approximately the same setup and would also be interested by some feedback on the dr-680 compared to mixpre+r09/d50.
Kind regards,
JM.
I think the DR680 will be fine for indie dialog work. No, it doesn't have preamps that will work as well as those in the MixPre for dialog--the MixPre has Lundahl input transformers and one of the best input limiters available in a DC-powered device. I think the COMBO of the MixPre (maybe feeding inputs 5/6) and the DR680 could work really well--use the MixPre for your boom mics and the other DR680 channels for secondary mics and wireless RX. I'd advise figuring out an external battery supply to power all your stuff at once. The lack of real TC will be an issue on some jobs, but probably not on indie drama anymore (as you already know). Do some sync tests w/ the cameras they'll be using, and figure out a workflow that works best for your situation. The free Sound Devices "Wave Agent" app will allow you to make all kinds of changes to file names, TC flags, etc etc after the fact on your DR680 files, if you need to.
Philip Perkins (CAS)
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Funny I was just thinking about this thread yesterday. As for a comp between Mixpre/r09(d50) set up. I think Phil skipped over a glaring point. I took it as should I use the Mixpre/r09 set up OR should I use the DR-680. Seeing as used mixpres are about $550 and I'm guessing that the R09 would be $250 or less, the price point is nearly the same. If those were you're choices I'd get the DR-680. You get six channels of analog input and the pre amps have plenty of clean gain. It also means that you only need to power one device and there will not be any sync issues. Then there is also the fact that you can do a mix on the fly and send it out on the rca's to feed heaphones of boom mic op's. and you can do that while recording that mix down too. I have run a V2, UA-5 BM2p+, and Sound Devices MP-2 in front of this unit. While there may be a slight difference in quality between the stock pre's and the outboard pre's, it is not some huge chasm. I be willing to bet that side by side you would be hard pressed to pick out which was which among the four of them. The Tascam unit is using a transformer coupled output on it's pre amps and while the might not be as high end as a V2 or MP-2 they are a new design and are standing up well all on their own. These are not the same preamps as other lower end Tascam units and are even a tad better than the HD-P2 preamps. And between the sensitivity settings and gain control you have around 60db of gain available on the DR-680. I can't speak for the limiter functions or for any of the built in functions because I don't use them. But then again I don't do much film work and none of it is dialog, only music for video shoots. So if your question is a mixpre/r09 combo OR the DR-680...BUY the DR-680.
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Funny I was just thinking about this thread yesterday. As for a comp between Mixpre/r09(d50) set up. I think Phil skipped over a glaring point. I took it as should I use the Mixpre/r09 set up OR should I use the DR-680. Seeing as used mixpres are about $550 and I'm guessing that the R09 would be $250 or less, the price point is nearly the same. If those were you're choices I'd get the DR-680. You get six channels of analog input and the pre amps have plenty of clean gain. It also means that you only need to power one device and there will not be any sync issues. Then there is also the fact that you can do a mix on the fly and send it out on the rca's to feed heaphones of boom mic op's. and you can do that while recording that mix down too. I have run a V2, UA-5 BM2p+, and Sound Devices MP-2 in front of this unit. While there may be a slight difference in quality between the stock pre's and the outboard pre's, it is not some huge chasm. I be willing to bet that side by side you would be hard pressed to pick out which was which among the four of them. The Tascam unit is using a transformer coupled output on it's pre amps and while the might not be as high end as a V2 or MP-2 they are a new design and are standing up well all on their own. These are not the same preamps as other lower end Tascam units and are even a tad better than the HD-P2 preamps. And between the sensitivity settings and gain control you have around 60db of gain available on the DR-680. I can't speak for the limiter functions or for any of the built in functions because I don't use them. But then again I don't do much film work and none of it is dialog, only music for video shoots. So if your question is a mixpre/r09 combo OR the DR-680...BUY the DR-680.
Kirk,
well Said!
sounds logical...
I would love to get a DR-680... may be some time after the baby is born..
;)
--Ian
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So if i understand this thread correctly...
The dr-680 has surprisingly clean preamps, approaching the "great" status? A stable, easy to use interface. Intelligent power management when hooked to external sources. "Decent" life off of AA batteries and a Rugged-enough build.
So, overall, its a great device and aside from making sure your memory cards are formatted correctly, there isnt any reason not to rush out and pick one up?
Does that seem accurate?
My main use will be indy-film dialog. I have a SD mix-pre that i feed line level into a r09 and am very happy with the sound. Anybody think I'll be losing anything substantial moving to a dr-680 direct to the mics? (my main dialog mic is a schoeps, but i have oktava and sanken lavaliers that I'd like to be able to multitrack at times)
Thanks for any input! (i'm in rural New Zealand, so i have zero chance of test driving anything before i buy... i am forced to trust the thoughts of opinionated strangers on the internet. doh!)
I have approximately the same setup and would also be interested by some feedback on the dr-680 compared to mixpre+r09/d50.
Kind regards,
JM.
I think the DR680 will be fine for indie dialog work. No, it doesn't have preamps that will work as well as those in the MixPre for dialog--the MixPre has Lundahl input transformers and one of the best input limiters available in a DC-powered device.
Lundahl schumndahl! I always thought my MP2 sounded bloated and very loose in the low end. Those Lundahl transformers ain't all that. It's Definitely no jensen or cinemag transformer, which blow it out of the water, IMO. For dialog, I'm sure the tascam box sounds fine.
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Agreed on the MP2 -- though I might only say somewhat bloated and a bit loose, but that's what I felt when I owned mine as well. I don't know what transformers the PSP2 has, but it sounds leagues better IME.
I got with Chuck and we did a Gefell m210 > PSP2 > 680 recording. It sounds very good to me -- nice pairing.
My 680 has finally shipped, and should be here next Wednesday. ;D
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Congrats :)
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Agreed on the MP2 -- though I might only say somewhat bloated and a bit loose, but that's what I felt when I owned mine as well. I don't know what transformers the PSP2 has, but it sounds leagues better IME.
I got with Chuck and we did a Gefell m210 > PSP2 > 680 recording. It sounds very good to me -- nice pairing.
My 680 has finally shipped, and should be here next Wednesday. ;D
I'm pretty sure the PSP2 uses a Jensen transformer.
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One of these non critical shows I want to try a 4 way comp V2/MP2/BM2p+/DR-680 and see what shakes out of that. Wish I had 4 sets of the same mics but just switching them up will have to do for now. Although I think I could get two sets of 480's without too much trouble. Could do one channel of each?
I have run it on just the stock pres and was plenty satisfied with the results.
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Could do one channel of each?
One channel of each wouldn't be good for accessing stereo imaging differences between the pre-amps.
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good point.
we'll see, it's a back burner project
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An appropriate comparison should involve one set of mics and some XLR splitters at the appropriate place in the chain - this way all things are equal in terms of mics, pattern/placement, cables etc. are the same. It should then be repeated in different circumstances (indoor vs. outdoor, club vs theatre vs larger venue, different types of music etc.) After all that, the various recordings should be played "blind" to a variety of folks (i.e. no idea which is which). Then the results should be compared. I'm guessing different folks will like different gear under different circumstances...
As for the MP-2 - I've used one for years with my KM140s and always loved the combo. I also like the variable gain as opposed to the stepped gain on other pre-amps I've used.
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On a previous reply in this thread someone mentioned formating SD cards before using in this deck - can someone elaborate? I've always just popped brand new SD cards into whatever device I'm using them with and away I go - is there some intermediate step folks are recommending before using new cards?
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^^^Formatting the card will bring the card back to it's factory-condition. If you never format, sometimes things don't completely erase and fragments can be left on the card which can corrupt the card. I think too that formatting the card in it's proper deck will help the deck recognize the card properly. I always format AFTER I transfer. Formatting will erase EVERYTHING that is on the card. I'm sure that I'm a little off on my explanations, but that's the gist of it.
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An appropriate comparison should involve one set of mics and some XLR splitters at the appropriate place in the chain - this way all things are equal in terms of mics, pattern/placement, cables etc. are the same. It should then be repeated in different circumstances (indoor vs. outdoor, club vs theatre vs larger venue, different types of music etc.) After all that, the various recordings should be played "blind" to a variety of folks (i.e. no idea which is which). Then the results should be compared. I'm guessing different folks will like different gear under different circumstances...
As for the MP-2 - I've used one for years with my KM140s and always loved the combo. I also like the variable gain as opposed to the stepped gain on other pre-amps I've used.
Yeah, I dunno about the spliters. First off the 480's would require phantom. Not so sure I'd want to send phantom down the line because of what it might do to the signal. And who knows is one units phantom is (cleaner, better, different). Second by splitting you change the load hence you change the impedance and I don't know what that would do to the sound. I'd run the two sets of mics for one set of music and then switch.
I agree about the MP-2 gain although I rarely have to turn it up at all at rock shows. The V2 is relatively new to me so I am still getting used to it and the UA-5 has the same type of variable gain as the MP-2. For the most part I have been leaving the 680 set at low sensitivity and using the trim
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You need the MacArthur VMS-4:
http://www.posthorn.com/Macvk_5.html (http://www.posthorn.com/Macvk_5.html)
It's a passive device.. "The VMS-4 is a two-channel device, each side having a transformer with a single primary winding and three secondary windings. This gives each side an input, a direct out and three transformer-isolated outputs."
the direct out might be a little different from the 3 isolated outputs, so that means you only run a 3-pre-amp comp at a time, not 4. And it's designed to run a mic-level. So you run your mics to a PS-2 (or some other phantom power only device), and then into the transformer isolated splitter. You take the 3 different isolated outputs and run them to three difference pre-amps. It'd be perfect.
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It would be perfect. So who's got all that stuff?
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^^^Formatting the card will bring the card back to it's factory-condition. If you never format, sometimes things don't completely erase and fragments can be left on the card which can corrupt the card. I think too that formatting the card in it's proper deck will help the deck recognize the card properly. I always format AFTER I transfer. Formatting will erase EVERYTHING that is on the card. I'm sure that I'm a little off on my explanations, but that's the gist of it.
I'm still a bit lost on this - so this is not something you do with a new card but rather you do after you transfer files and then delete them from the card? How do you format the card in the deck?
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^
Dan,
I would format any new card in the device that you will be using it in EVERY time before you use it. And format your card in the device that it will be used in each and every time for each successive use.
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http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/naturerecordists/message/40925
Here's a link to a discussion of preamp differences between HD-P2 and DR-680. Under the test conditions, using very low noise mics, there is little difference in self-noise. Chances are that in any real-world situation the environmental noise will mask any differences between the two recorders. The post and subsequent replies contain links to several test recordings.
Flintstone
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Got 3 of these right before a festival last weekend, I mean right before. UPS delivered at 11 and we left home at 11:30. I got these out of the box, and set them up on all three stages, and then had a few minutes to page over the manual. These things are fantastic, I love em. Ease of use, simplicity, quality everything. I think I am sold for good. Best bang for buck recorder on the market right now imo :)
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^^
Can you link two or more together to combine the number of recordable channels or would you have to manually start/stop individual recorders?
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I haven't tried it yet, but I have a bluegrass festival to do next week thats a single stage so I'm going to give it a go. will let ya know after I give it a whirl.
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According to the manual two DR-680's can be linked together.
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According to the manual two DR-680's can be linked together.
thats for sure, Not sure if they start and stop together or if they are just clocked together as asked above though.
I'm also wondering if I can use an external clock to link all three instead of using one DR-680 as the master and one as the slave.
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The catch when linking them is that it's via the digital i/o - so you don't get a 16 track system from two.
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Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere, but can anyone tell me about the right cable for using a 9v dvd battery with the 680? (Or point me to the right thread?) I assume the reversed-polarity one I have for my R-44 is wrong, but what about some of the standard plugs that came with the battery? Or do I need to get some Rat Shack adapta-plugs?
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Here is a good example of how good the stock pre's can sound:
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=535515 (http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=535515)
I'm glad I don't need the V2 anymore....
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Here is a good example of how good the stock pre's can sound:
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=535515 (http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=535515)
I'm glad I don't need the V2 anymore....
:o
great job!
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Agreed on the MP2 -- though I might only say somewhat bloated and a bit loose, but that's what I felt when I owned mine as well. I don't know what transformers the PSP2 has, but it sounds leagues better IME.
I got with Chuck and we did a Gefell m210 > PSP2 > 680 recording. It sounds very good to me -- nice pairing.
My 680 has finally shipped, and should be here next Wednesday. ;D
I'm pretty sure the PSP2 uses a Jensen transformer.
Interesting. Have you ever seen any documentation to back that up by any chance? I know the Mix2000 used Sowter transformers.
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Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere, but can anyone tell me about the right cable for using a 9v dvd battery with the 680? (Or point me to the right thread?) I assume the reversed-polarity one I have for my R-44 is wrong, but what about some of the standard plugs that came with the battery? Or do I need to get some Rat Shack adapta-plugs?
I'm wondering the same thing - any help would be appreciated.
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Agreed on the MP2 -- though I might only say somewhat bloated and a bit loose, but that's what I felt when I owned mine as well. I don't know what transformers the PSP2 has, but it sounds leagues better IME.
I got with Chuck and we did a Gefell m210 > PSP2 > 680 recording. It sounds very good to me -- nice pairing.
My 680 has finally shipped, and should be here next Wednesday. ;D
I'm pretty sure the PSP2 uses a Jensen transformer.
Interesting. Have you ever seen any documentation to back that up by any chance? I know the Mix2000 used Sowter transformers.
Nope, I could be wrong. I'm not familiar with Sowter. If they are the same as the ones in the PSP2, they sound damn good.
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Here is a good example of how good the stock pre's can sound:
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=535515 (http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=535515)
I'm glad I don't need the V2 anymore....
Sounds fantastic Matt. Who wants to buy my 671?
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My 680 arrived yesterday!! ;D
Seems like a nice recorder, looking forward to using it. Got a chance to play around a bit with it last night, read through the manual, and make a couple test recordings.
A couple of questions that may have already been covered:
Can you adjust it so the backlight stays on when it is run off the internal batteries? Probably not too big of a deal since I will normally be running it with an external battery, and if my external dies and I switch over, the backlight going off would give me a good heads up of the switch.
Also, is there a way of disabling the speaker in the menu? I was doing test recordings with some Naiant MSH-1O omnis connected directly to the 680. I pulled out some headphones and listened to the recordings, then pulled out the headphones. I forgot to turn down the "headphone" volume and started recording again. Whoa -- horrible piercing feedback!! :o The speaker defaults to playing back during recording if the headphones aren't connected. I certainly don't want feedback, and I don't even want extraneous noise coming from the speaker during my recording. Obviously I can keep the "headphone" volume turned down, but shit happens and I really don't like that that speaker will be playing back during recording if I forget to keep that volume turned down.
Keeping a 1/4" > 1/8" headphone adapter plugged into the headphone output disables the speaker, so I may just keep that plugged in at all times. If there isn't a way of disabling speaker playback during recording, getting that added somehow in a future firmware update sure would be nice.
BTW, what firmware are people running?
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I haven't found a way to keep the back light on when running on internal batteries. I'd actually like to have the ability to turn it off when running on external power.
I leave a 1/4" to 1/8" stereo converter in the headphone jack to avoid having sound come out of the speaker while recording.
Firmware v1.10
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Here is a good example of how good the stock pre's can sound:
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=535515 (http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=535515)
I'm glad I don't need the V2 anymore....
Sounds Fantastic!
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Can you adjust it so the backlight stays on when it is run off the internal batteries? Probably not too big of a deal since I will normally be running it with an external battery, and if my external dies and I switch over, the backlight going off would give me a good heads up of the switch.
In the "Backlight" setting in the menu you have the options of "OFF", "5sec", "10sec" etc. Select "OFF" and the backlight will stay on while running internal batteries. This was one of my initial frustrations and I figured it out by trial and error. Selecting "OFF" seemed like it would have turned the backlight off all together but it actually keeps it on all the time.
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Heres a little clip from last weekends natural breakdown set, this is just a reaaly quick raw mix of 4 stage mics and the soundboard all straight through the 680, no pres.
I really love this piece of equipment.
https://www.yousendit.com/download/YWhNck96Q0NEbUx2Wmc9PQ
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I was wondering if anyone has found an altertive way to reset the take number other than doing a factory reset. I've been using the user word thing for naming files, but I'm on take 139 even after switching cards or changing the selected name. :S
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Yeah, that increasing track number thing is a bit annoying.
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Has anyone transferred the WAV files from the DR-680 to a recording program like Cubase for post or mastering work? My goal is to be able to record directly off the mixing console 4 stereo tracks: stereo vocals, stereo band, stereo effects, and stereo audience tracks. Then transfer them to Cubase Essentials for mastering.
Can I really get 8 tracks off the 680? The manual seems to indicate that if the Recording File Mode is set to Stereo, I'll get 3 stereo WAV files plus the "stereo mix". Then if I set the Stereo Track setting to DIN that I'll get my 4th stereo WAV file form the digital input. Thus getting 4 stereo files.
Has anyone done this successfully?
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Record to mono files.
I didn't use the digi in so I got 6 mono waves and on stereo mix that are compatible with any editing software.
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Question number 2: Anyone connect the 2TR OUT DIGITAL AES/EBU output of the Yamaha M7CL to the Digital Input of the DR-680? The Yamaha manual states that the word clocks must be synched. I see no word clock input/output on the DR-680......
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Record to mono files.
I didn't use the digi in so I got 6 mono waves and on stereo mix that are compatible with any editing software.
Yes, you can record 4 stereo pairs or 8 mono tracks.
With another outboard mic pre-amp > A/D converter you can actually take advantage of the digital input to get 4 stereo tracks from analog sources.
I'm debating whether to get a UA-5 to take advantage of that.
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Record to mono files.
I didn't use the digi in so I got 6 mono waves and on stereo mix that are compatible with any editing software.
Yes, you can record 4 stereo pairs or 8 mono tracks.
With another outboard mic pre-amp > A/D converter you can actually take advantage of the digital input to get 4 stereo tracks from analog sources.
I'm debating whether to get a UA-5 to take advantage of that.
so why did you sell your V3?
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Record to mono files.
I didn't use the digi in so I got 6 mono waves and on stereo mix that are compatible with any editing software.
Yes, you can record 4 stereo pairs or 8 mono tracks.
With another outboard mic pre-amp > A/D converter you can actually take advantage of the digital input to get 4 stereo tracks from analog sources.
I'm debating whether to get a UA-5 to take advantage of that.
so why did you sell your V3?
I couldn't afford to keep both...
edit to add...
...and I can get a UA-5 for around $100
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Question number 2: Anyone connect the 2TR OUT DIGITAL AES/EBU output of the Yamaha M7CL to the Digital Input of the DR-680? The Yamaha manual states that the word clocks must be synched. I see no word clock input/output on the DR-680......
Although many decks, such as the R-4 Pro, have no word clock input, when they are connected via AES/EBU they automatically are slaved to the input source word clock. I imagine that this would probably be the case with this deck, but I had to get to Edirol Japan before I finally got an answer about the issue with that machine.
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Although many decks, such as the R-4 Pro, have no word clock input, when they are connected via AES/EBU they automatically are slaved to the input source word clock. I imagine that this would probably be the case with this deck, but I had to get to Edirol Japan before I finally got an answer about the issue with that machine.
Thank you. I hope that's the case with the DR-680. I'm about to spend some more of our food and shelter budget on daddy's audio addiction and get the DR-680....
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I took the digi out from a Yamaha LS9-32 and had no problems at all. BUT that was a coax spdif output. An AES out put should have a resistor in line between the SBD and the deck. There is an article somewhere here on TS about the differences in the two signals. I also seem to remember that you can just drop an AES signal into a SPDIF input, it just strips some of the info off the signal.
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^^^^ AES/EBU (coax) or XLR is 110 ohm and S/Pdif(coax) is 75 ohm coax
there are converters, and perhaps cable, but yes perhaps a resistor in the line could work, the ohms need to be converted from 110 to 75 - if I remember correctly
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Hosa makes converter boxes including AES/EBU SPDIF coax for about a hundred and change.
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You don't need a convertor for the dr-680, do you?
Page 14 of the manual, item 30
Digital Sync In Jack
"The unit automatically determines whether the input signal is S/PDIF or AES/EBU which are both supported"
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So now that these have been in the field for a bit, how does everyone feel about changing levels 1 track at a time?
Does it work alright?
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So now that these have been in the field for a bit, how does everyone feel about changing levels 1 track at a time?
Does it work alright?
It certainly isn't ideal! I plan to e-mail them about a possible firmware update to be able to adjust more than one at once. Seems it would be possible in firmware.
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So now that these have been in the field for a bit, how does everyone feel about changing levels 1 track at a time?
Does it work alright?
It certainly isn't ideal! I plan to e-mail them about a possible firmware update to be able to adjust more than one at once. Seems it would be possible in firmware.
I don't find it all that bad changing the gain one channel at a time. I had to do that with my V3... It does get tricky with multiple inputs though. I've started to log how much gain I'm using at various venues and what levels to use with each set of mics I have. That gives me a good reference point to start with, so I'm not changing the gain on all inputs that much.
A far as firmware goes...
I'd like to change the "2db from clip" indicator to a real clip indicator.
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Hello, wanted to ask something about syncing the DR-680 with a soundcard with the AES/EBU standard (in my case the ULN8).
I can record up to 8 tracks in Logic Audio with the ULN8. Would be interesting to be able expanding this with 6 tracks more from the DR-680. The problem is how to sync the files recorded in Logic and the 6 tracks of the DR-680 as accurate as possible (of course one can look at the waveform, but that is not what I mean).
Is it possible to slave the DR-680 through AES/EBU in a way that all files (both recorded with the ULN8 in a multitrack software have the same timecode stamped in the BWF files, than import the DR-680 files and sync the files?
Thanks a lot...
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No the 680 needs to be the master clock or first in the chain and everything syncs to it
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So if I slave the ULN8 (connected to my Macbook through firewire and running Logic Audio) with the DR-680 as master, and I push the rec button of the DR-680, the whole setup starts recording? And syncing later on is as simple as aligning the beginning of the files recorded in Logic with the beginning of the files recorded with the DR-680? No latency?
I don't have the DR-680 (yet), so I cannot do the test.
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There is no firewire on a 680.
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There is no firewire on a 680.
Maybe I didn't explain the situation good enough... ;)
I'll start again.
I am trying to figure out how to lineup the files of a same recording session where the musicians are playing all together, recorded in two separate systems: one is the ULN8/Macbook/Logic Audio and the other the 680. Maybe I would record the drums with the 680 and the other instruments with the ULN8.
So, after the session, I would copy the files from the 680 to my Logic project, but of course I don't have any sync point to align the files... and I was thinking if connecting somehow the ULN8 with the 680 through AES/EBU could give a solution...
Thanks,
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No the 680 needs to be the master clock or first in the chain and everything syncs to it
It seems like the opposite might be easier. Send the AES digital out from the ULN8 to the 680 for its digital input. The 680 records those channels and uses the clock from the AES signal to clock the other 6 channels. This is how the 680 works from what I understand, though I haven't tried it out -- use a digital input on the 680 and those 2 channels and the rest of the 6 other channels are clocked to the incoming source.
I don't know about latency, but it shouldn't matter anyway -- the 680 won't start recording when the ULN8 does, you'd have to start it manually. In post, you'd have to line up the 6ch of the 680 with 8ch of the uln8, but the clocking would all be the same.
I don't know enough about the uln8, but if you can configure it to send out just 2ch of audio out the AES output, that should make things easy -- the uln8/mac combo would record those 2ch and then the 680 would record the same 2ch with the same clocking from its digital input. So the two 2ch files from each recorder would be identical, other than the different start times and thus one source having more dead air recorded up front. That should make lining up those 2 sources, and in turn lining up the remaining 6ch recorded on the 680, very easy.
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I was composing my post when your latest came in, but if it helps clarify: if you send 2ch from the ULN to the 680 and have both systems record those 2ch, the two different recordings would be identical for the bulk of the time of the recording (and clock synced), other than the difference in dead air in the recordings.
This should make aligning the recordings very easy since the music portion of the recording is identical. Once you are able to line up the two nearly identical 2ch recordings, this will line up the remaining 6 channels recorded on the 680. You'd have to line up by eye I suppose in your post-processing software, but that should be very accurate since the two files will be identical down to the individual sample once you zoom in.
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This should make aligning the recordings very easy since the music portion of the recording is identical. Once you are able to line up the two nearly identical 2ch recordings, this will line up the remaining 6 channels recorded on the 680. You'd have to line up by eye I suppose in your post-processing software, but that should be very accurate since the two files will be identical down to the individual sample once you zoom in.
Yes, I was considering this option and it should work, just as you mention it. If it is only one or two takes, no problem. But if there are a lot more, things will get a little bit nasty...
Therefore I was wondering if there was a less time consuming and more "sophisticated" way of lining up the files.
I know that you can timestamp the BWF files recorded with the ULN8. But I do not know if you can pass this information through AES/EBU to the files recorded with the 680.
Anyone has tried this out yet?
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it is unlikely that those who have the dr 680 have tried this but I could be wrong.
If you're looking to do multitracking with software, check out the zoom r16. While it doesn't have any optical out, there's usb to connect to your daw and interface with it.
the zoom r16 my not suit everyone but with a little planning, you could record songs quite well.
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the 680 has USB... so what's your point?
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the 680 has USB... so what's your point?
If you're referencing me, I'm just bringing up another machine that may work better for multitracking with a computer.
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Soooooo..... tell me why I made the better choice buying the DR-680 ($850.00)instead of the Zoom R16 ($400)?
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Soooooo..... tell me why I made the better choice buying the DR-680 ($850.00)instead of the Zoom R16 ($400)?
:)
I haven't used the Zoom device, so...
The Tascam looks like a field recorder. The Zoom looks more like a studio device, though it does run on batteries. I know that the Tascam sounds good and is reliable. The Zoom only provides phantom power to two mics at a time. The DR-680 is smaller and appears easier to transport.
The Zoom would be pretty cool if it had 16 channels with good pre-amps and phantom power, but it sounds like the pre-amps aren't all that great...
http://www.amazon.com/Zoom-R16-Multitrack-Controller-Interface/dp/B002I7TJNW
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:)
I haven't used the Zoom device, so...
The Tascam looks like a field recorder. The Zoom looks more like a studio device, though it does run on batteries. I know that the Tascam sounds good and is reliable. The Zoom only provides phantom power to two mics at a time. The DR-680 is smaller and appears easier to transport.
The Zoom would be pretty cool if it had 16 channels with good pre-amps and phantom power, but it sounds like the pre-amps aren't all that great...
http://www.amazon.com/Zoom-R16-Multitrack-Controller-Interface/dp/B002I7TJNW
I feel better already!!
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:)
I haven't used the Zoom device, so...
The Tascam looks like a field recorder. The Zoom looks more like a studio device, though it does run on batteries. I know that the Tascam sounds good and is reliable. The Zoom only provides phantom power to two mics at a time. The DR-680 is smaller and appears easier to transport.
The Zoom would be pretty cool if it had 16 channels with good pre-amps and phantom power, but it sounds like the pre-amps aren't all that great...
http://www.amazon.com/Zoom-R16-Multitrack-Controller-Interface/dp/B002I7TJNW
I feel better already!!
When you say the dr-680 is smaller, that must mean the r16 is bigger and perhaps heavier. I haven't held the dr680 yet but i can say the r16 is no more in weight than a couple computer keyboards.
All in all, I believe both are capable of recording a band in a studio. If you want to take your laptop and feel the need for extra phantom power, perhaps the dr-680 is for you. If you plan on recording drums, vocals, and using a lot of dynamic and condenser mics, perhaps the r16 is for you since only two inputs are phantom. Don't need the laptop and want to try recording out in a field (for whatever reason), just take the r16, cables, headphones, and your guitars.
When Chuck says the dr680 is reliable I hope he does not mean the r16, therefore, is NOT reliable. I have found no issues with it working just as I told it to.
I feel the amazon review under values the recorder. here's a thread on gear slutz about it:
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/low-end-theory/366508-zoom-r16-any-experience-opinions.html
I haven't read all 21 pages but prior to buying it and shortly after getting it, I did read a lot about it.
personally I don't think can replace a professional studio or the mastering process. I think of the r16 as something as a scratch pad. bands and musicians would benefit from it while making songs and riffs so they are not burning studio time for silly tasks.
/end of r16 input
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Everything I know about the Zoom is what I posted. I know nothing about it's reliability.
The price is very attractive. If I wanted to do some live band multi-track recording, I'd buy a couple of them.
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^^
Can you link two or more together to combine the number of recordable channels or would you have to manually start/stop individual recorders?
I finally used a few of these linked together, the slave machine does auto start with the master.
Really enjoying these.
Heres a pic of two in action
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l187/2bgreen/680sinaction.jpg)
Have I mentioned that I really like these units :)
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nice
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Hey, bgreen, you said "autostart"... did you mean using the "auto-record" function? Or just that when you press the REC button, both decks start simultaneously? BTW, I like your picture especially with the audio-assisting-can-of-lager on the left. ;-)
Can you describe your signal paths/hookup as seen in the photo? What's the laptop running, e.g.?
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Hey, bgreen, you said "autostart"... did you mean using the "auto-record" function? Or just that when you press the REC button, both decks start simultaneously? BTW, I like your picture especially with the audio-assisting-can-of-lager on the left. ;-)
just that when you press the REC button, both decks start
This recording was
6 mics at stage lip > 150' snake > 1st tascam chnls 1 - 6
2 aud mics at my tent > 2nd tascam 1/2
House mix from the board > 2nd tascam 3/4
or something close. number of channels varied at times but ya get the idea.
The laptop is just for some quick done and dirty alignment, panning, and normalization to give the band something to listen to on the way home, it's not being used for recording, just to give a rough mix sample after the show.
The lager is my best asset at times. keeps me from blowing a fuse lol.
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Thanks, bgreen! And the lager makes the mix sweeter! Ha.
Do you adjust for time differences between the board mix / stage mics / audience mics in your post-mixdown? If so, what's your method?
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I use wavelab, I open all the files in montage, find a well defined common peak, line em up and off I go.
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I use wavelab, I open all the files in montage, find a well defined common peak, line em up and off I go.
I've had good luck finding and using a place where the drummer clicks the sticks together to count off the beginning of the song.
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Bump... Two 680's linked are less confusing than two threads unlinked...
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A late reporting of my first outing with the 680:
Summary: not good. :( I was plagued with all kinds of problems due to a slow card (I think). I got the same error messages Chuck had, and the recording shut down with nothing saved. I was running 6ch in, plus the mix track, so a total of 8 channels. Recording at 24/44.1k onto a -- I think -- class 6 a-data card. I keep forgetting to pull it out and double check, but pretty sure it was a class 6 adata card that I had been previously using with my R44 with no problems. I changed down to 8ch 16/44 and still had the slow card write errors, then finally changed down to 6ch at 16/44 and everything worked fine. Unfortunately, I had to shut down 2ch that I really preferred recording since I couldn't figure out how to stop the mix track.
So questions from all this:
- Has anyone been running 32gb cards? If so, what class/speed?
- What 16gb cards have people been running? I think from what I remember reading people have used Transcend, PNY/HP, and Kingston. I'm particularly interested in knowing if class 4 Kingston cards have been working (or alternatively if the PNY cards seem like reputable cards, after the problems with my adata card, I'm thinking I'd like to keep with a more reputable brand).
- Can you shut down the mix track and if so how?
I'm not figuring it out from the manual, and I wasn't figuring it out in the field though I keep forgetting to try at home. As I recall, you couldn't just turn off the channels from recording like you can with the regular channels. Does the mix track get turned off in some menu? Otherwise, it seems like you would have to choose to record the digital-in rather than the mix track in the menu, and then once chosen I'm thinking you should then have access to turn off those channels like you do the normal ones. Seems hard to believe it is that complicated, but I don't think I was able to just de-select the mix channels like you can the normal recording channels.
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I use the transcend TS16GSDHC6 class 6 from the tested media list and have yet to have an error recording 6 channels plus the mix at 24/96
The only 32 gig card I see on the approved list
http://www.tascam.com/products/dr-680;9,12,3868,19.html
is Panasonic, as soon as I find a good deal on one, I'll check it out.
There are a few class 4's from hagiwara,Toshiba, and Panasonic but the rest are class 6 or better. I stuck to the list to avoid problems.
I didn't find anywhere to turn off the mix either. I turned down all the channels on the mix levels to save space, not sure if that would do anything for performance or not though. Lemme know if you find it.
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I don't have my deck in front of me but I am pretty sure you can enable/disabale the mix track the same way you do it for the other six tracks. On the front of the unit where you arm tracks for recording there is a mix button also.
As for card issues....I have not had any. I run class 4, 6, and 10 cards. I recorded 24/48 mono times 6 or eight tracks. I use a 16GB PNY/Polaroid class4, A 16GB Patriot calss 6, 16GB Patriot LX series class10, 4GB OCZ class6, never had an issue at all. I do format before use EVERYTIME. I'm eyeing up the 32GB cards and would probably buy the Patriot LX series class10 card. besides being very fast it has a 5 year warranty.
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Thanks for the feedback guys, keep it coming!
The tascam media list says class 4 (only) is needed for cards >2GB. I'm not sure if for some reason you went beyond 16gb whether you'd need > class 4 for some reason (eg, class 6 or more).
BTW, I should've noted: when I had problems I was running 4x stereo tracks (3x stereo + stereo mix), not mono tracks.
I really feel like if I'm getting a new card anyway, that I should get a 32GB card. At 8ch of 24/44.1k, 16GB only gives you 4hrs or so of recording, which isn't enough to reliably record an opening act and a 2-set main act. I'd rather have one card in there rather than switching around cards, but I'd prefer the $75 option for a Class 4 32GB kingston card over the 32gb panasonic card on the tascam list that's like $250.
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I've been using the Kingston 32GB class 4 with ZERO issues running all eight tracks or as few as one mono track and I never format before each use. and kirkd is correct - to disable the stereo mix input simply press the round button to disarm the two tracks.
I use the same 32GB cards in my Canon DSLRs to shoot 1080/24P video and I have only once experienced a buffer overrun error evidently due to cardspeed problems. (The DSLR manuals clearly state these cams require class 6 cards, yet these Kingston class 4 cards have sufficient bandwidth to accomodate some serious bitrates.) Multichannel audio is a breeze compared to 50Mb/s video...
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:coolguy:
Thanks for the feedback on the Kingston 32gb, I'll probably go ahead an order one of those then.
On disarming the mix track -- could have sworn I tried that, but I must have missed the obvious. Does it still keep showing the levels for the mix track even though it stops recording? Maybe that was the confusion.
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For the record, I'm using Lexar 16 and 32 gig cards all of which say Platinum II 60x on them.
Don't know the Class. Got a deal on them and thankfully there's been no problem with any of them.
Run a max of 6 tracks configured as 3x stereo tracks so far, occasionally forgetting to disable the mix track.
Pretty sure it does show the levels on the disabled mix track.
Really digging this unit - its been flawless for me even after days of blazing all-day Colorado heat taping all my friend's mics as well as my own :)
Love the upgrade that lets you operate it completely from the top panel. That's key.
Only issue I've had was not getting it to sync the digi-in with skaggsies HD-P2 digi-out.
Didn't try very hard to troubleshoot though. Understand it syncs witha v3 no problem.
Could this be a "both want to be master clock" sort of situation?
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I've used a P2 with this unit also. I set the P2 for external clock spdif source or something like that. I don't think you can have the 680 be a slave deck to anything but another 680? I could be wrong. But by using the 680 as the master clock it allowed for 8 channels plus the two on the P2. It would seem that if the 680 did allow any external clock input via spdif that you would have to sacrifice the two spdif channels for clock and not be able to use them for audio.
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about to order mine in just a moment >:D >:D ;D ;D
anybody know of a good place to get a good deal on SD cards...32 gb i guess class 6 i would assume??
thx
adam
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about to order mine in just a moment >:D >:D ;D ;D
anybody know of a good place to get a good deal on SD cards...32 gb i guess class 6 i would assume??
thx
adam
newegg.com
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007962%20600006200%20600006235&IsNodeId=1&name=32GB
peace OOK
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time for a new thread guys...