Author Topic: Tascam DR-05 (Read 30196 times)

UnknownVT · « **on:** April 04, 2014, 05:04:22 PM »

(was: Low price and Rebate - now EXPIRED)

Bargain - Heads up -

There is a current mail-in rebate of $20 for Tascam DR-05 (pdf)

The best price I have found is at the Guitar Center @ $59.99
(+Tax - since they are in just about every state)

You can go to a store and pick it up, or have it shipped Free.

The rebate has now EXPIRED and Guitar Center's low price is no longer available.

Hope that helps someone.

psychwolf · « **Reply #1 on:** April 06, 2014, 02:16:45 AM »

Hey, I'm new here and I also stumbled across the DR-05 with the rebate special going on. I'm trying to gear up for festival season here.

I liked the features on the TASCAM DR-07MKII, and that I can play around with the direction of the mics up top. Does anybody have experience with these two devices to know if one is worth it over the other, or is the DR-05 pretty much the gold standard?

It also got me wondering why these are on rebate. Is it because Android apps pretty much make them less popular? And is that good or bad?

2manyrocks · « **Reply #2 on:** April 06, 2014, 06:55:57 PM »

I have had a Dr-05 for about three years. It has been trouble free and the battery life has been pretty decent. It doesn't eat batteries like some other products.

At GC's price of $59.99 minus a $20 rebate, it's hard to go wrong with the 05 as an entry level recorder. I bought one when they were on sale for $49 or $59 and then the price jumped to $99. $59.99 less a $20 rebate is the best deal I've seen on an O5 anytime. Not sure if Musicians Friend is pricing them the same way or not.

The reason for the rebates is probably because Tascam is trying to sell products. Probably more of these things sell when school starts and at Christmas than at this time of the year is my guess.

I doubt Android apps have made a dent in the sale of portable handheld recorders.

psychwolf · « **Reply #3 on:** April 06, 2014, 09:37:19 PM »

Cool, thanks, that gives me some confidence in going the Tascam route then since I haven't heard of the brand. I used to play guitar, so the Zoom one stuck out in my mind a bit, but the prices were higher and amazon seemed to favor Tascam more for features. I tried the DR-07, so I hope it's worth it. Otherwise if you're suggesting a DR-05 is probably the best for its level I can still cancel the order probably or return before the end of the month.

I think one benefit of a standalone vs an Android I'll get is that I can plug into a soundboard even, or use different mics without problems. I couldn't set my phone anywhere other than on person, and even then I'll always need a mic that hopefully works with an android device, so that was a major deciding factor for me.

2manyrocks · « **Reply #4 on:** April 06, 2014, 10:48:29 PM »

I think the 07 has reverb and mics that adjust. If you don't need those features, the 05 is a good deal at this price.

I don't think android is quite there yet for recording purposes.

If somebody ripped off your phone, would be more expensive than if your recorder gets ripped off.

UnknownVT · « **Reply #5 on:** April 06, 2014, 11:37:31 PM »

Quote from: psychwolf on April 06, 2014, 02:16:45 AM

I liked the features on the TASCAM DR-07MKII, and that I can play around with the direction of the mics up top. Does anybody have experience with these two devices to know if one is worth it over the other, or is the DR-05 pretty much the gold standard?

I have the Tascam DR-07MkII - it is a very fine recorder -
on its internal mics it actually does very slightly better than the Teac VR-10 that I have been recording with extensively -

please see this (now long) thread -
Tascam/Teac VR-10 Digital Recorder

This Teac VR-10 does amazingly well on its internal mics -
there are several examples in that thread that show this -
(please see: Reply #9 and the follow up responses -
quotes and summary in Reply #15

Then comments on two of my recordings in posts directly previous to these two posts
Reply #74
Reply #89 )

I have actually done side-by-side recordings between the DR-07MkII and the Teac VR-10
in Reply #35 -
live recordings, and a more controlled test using a CD on my home audio system.

My take: the Tascam DR-07MkII seems to have very slightly better treble response and the Teac VR-10 is slightly better in the bass.
In isolation I would be very happy with either - the differences are only noticed when comparing side-by-side recordings -
to me that's a pretty severe test, and tantamount to nitpicking.

Battery life - I can get about 5.5hours on the Teac VR-10 using 2 AAA eneloops
BUT I can get over 15 hours on the DR07MkII using 2 AA eneloops
(the DR-05 ought to be in the same ballpark longevity)

The main attraction for me when I bought the Tascam DR-07MkII was the same as you - the ability to reconfigure the mics -
X-Y

and
A-B

However in reality all I've ever used is A-B which is the same as the DR-05 configuration -

and a point in the DR-05 favor is that its mics are rated to 125db SPL -
this may seem minor -
but my very first recording had horrible distortion -
that was because the mics got overloaded....
so this is less likely to happen with the DR-05!

That's why I've also ordered a DR-05,
at that price it'd be silly not to....

BTW - if it means anything the Tascam DR-05 has been consistently
at or near the top of Amazon's Best Sellers in Portable Studio Recorders
as well as their Top Rated in Portable Studio Recorders

Hope that helps.

psychwolf · « **Reply #6 on:** April 06, 2014, 11:58:58 PM »

Quote from: UnknownVT on April 06, 2014, 11:37:31 PM

However in reality all I've ever used is A-B which is the same as the DR-05 configuration -

and a point in the DR-05 favor is that its mics are rated to 125db SPL -
this may seem minor -
but my very first recording had horrible distortion -
that was because the mics got overloaded....
so this is less likely to happen with the DR-05!

Thanks much for taking the time to write a really useful review for me because I guarantee I'm going to have that same exact experience hehe. I think I'm going to go with the DR-05 now. Since I want to clamp it to various spots during shows I'm not going to feel as bad at this price if it does get ripped off, so it'll encourage me to spend a little more on a clamp and mics, and be more experimental too and just really use the hell out of the device.

aaronji · « **Reply #7 on:** April 08, 2014, 09:00:44 AM »

^^^ I wouldn't recommend leaving your gear completely unattended, even if it is only an inexpensive recorder...It would take seconds to pocket.

You should also think about what sort of quality you want out of your recordings. If you're only interested in a souvenir for yourself, then the internals on these Tascams might be sufficient. Otherwise, you might want to consider other options.

UnknownVT · « **Reply #8 on:** April 08, 2014, 11:29:16 AM »

Quote from: aaronji on April 08, 2014, 09:00:44 AM

^^^ I wouldn't recommend leaving your gear completely unattended, even if it is only an inexpensive recorder...It would take seconds to pocket.

Good advice and agreed -
I am unfortunately one of those who does do a lot of unattended recordings
on a recorder that's even smaller and more pocketable - the Teac VR-10
(which is tiny shown below next to an AA battery, and the Tascam DR-07MkII about the same size as the DR-05 in question).

However mostly the recorder is usually "next" to me, or occasionally (at worst) in sight
- so although there is still a risk - it's less than one would imagine.

I am inattentive - because I am there primarily to take photos.

Quote from: aaronji on April 08, 2014, 09:00:44 AM

You should also think about what sort of quality you want out of your recordings. If you're only interested in a souvenir for yourself, then the internals on these Tascams might be sufficient. Otherwise, you might want to consider other options.

Again "mostly" true.

I do only record for my own usage so it is a kind of "souvenir".

BUT the results can be surprisingly good enough to draw these kind of comments:
(all from this long running thread: Tascam/Teac VR-10 Digital Recorder)
Please, not for even a split second am I even dare claiming these internal mic recordings are as good as proper microphones set up with good recording equipment - but.....

First a recording that is not mine - but was the one that convinced me of the sound quality of this tiny inexpensive recorder on its internal mics:

Terrific live recording by member cd2go using the VR-10 internals
linked in Reply #13 - from April 02, 2011 in thread New Tascam DR-03 competes with zoom H1
- cd2go's link to Archive.org (so it's free and legal)
http://www.archive.org/details/gpn2011-03-09.teacvr10.cd2go.flac24

Quote from: F.O.Bean on December 05, 2012, 01:30:20 PM

That's a damn fine recording!

and

Quote from: LikeASong on December 05, 2012, 02:13:26 PM

Damn, that sounds amazing. Defined and wide sound, zero distortion. Obviously very little stereo separation, but then again it's to be expected with L&R mics positioned that close. Stereo separation is not something I consider precisely "essential" so I can def. live with it. The recorder must have been mounted in an ideal place, although there is enough (in amount and close distance) audience sound to assume it wasn't much above the taper's head I think. Also, Irving Plaza is a standing-only venue so no chance of the taper being seated - he must have been among the audience or back at the sound desk.

Anyway, I simply have SERIOUS problems believing that recording to have been made with only those tiny internals. It sounds just too good for a $30 recorder. Even with ideal location and good moderate PA levels & SPL, I think it's just too good.

I might just get this. It's such small money that I've got not much to lose, and judging by that recordings, an awful lot to win. Thanks

Now some of my casual unattended recordings -
please see Reply #73 for full details -
Download Folder

Quote from: LikeASong on October 01, 2013, 07:43:34 AM

Holy shit, that sounds nifty

Amazing Blue Rondo by the way, what an amazing piece it is.

EVERYONE should visit this thread and listen to some of that recordings, it would help a lot to change the general assumption that internal mics are always, invariably, shit.

You can see in Reply #75
detail of how being "unattended" resulted in very low recording levels
- but even then it still drew that quoted remark above.

another recording - (please see: Reply #88 )
Download (4.83MB)

Quote from: F.O.Bean on January 04, 2014, 09:28:39 PM

WOWZA!!! I am ALWAYS impressed with that cheap lil recorder. Sounds like a great recording with external mics and preamp! Id take that any day of the week!

I think it has a lot to do with location, location, location -
being small compact and all-in-one - the recorder can be placed in places where full recording gear cannot.
All my recording tend to be right up front, near where I am taking photos.

I think most will be pleasantly surprised at how good recordings can be from internal mics.

One might say these are just "lucky" recordings and internal mics are still mostly "cr@p"

Quote from: UnknownVT on December 11, 2012, 12:23:02 PM

Quote from: LikeASong on December 11, 2012, 08:24:21 AM
A bad gear with excellent conditions will *never* get you an excellent recording, IMO. So the gear is good You only have to get the best conditions and the good recording will happen eventually.
Well put -
on any gear - one only has to get one single superb result to be able to say its performance is good
- as you pointed out, it's impossible for bad gear to do that.

I'll give the analogy in photography -
most understand the lens is one of the most critical components -
It doesn't need for every single photo to be superb to prove any lens' IQ (image quality)
- it only needs one really technically good photo to prove the IQ -
as it is impossible for a poor lens to do that.

So that's why I said that recording of Grace Potter by cd2go proves how good the VR-10 and internals can be -
(given the right circumstances and operator)

Thanks

aaronji · « **Reply #9 on:** April 08, 2014, 02:56:44 PM »

^^^ I have been to more than enough shows to know that if you're stuff isn't nailed down, there is some chance it will walk away. Not just audio gear, either (jackets, phones, keys, coolers, etc.). I even know someone who took her shoes off to dance at a show in NYC and had her shoes poached...

As for the audio from the internals on these Tascams, like I said, it depends on what level of quality you find acceptable. This, of course, is purely subjective. If these recordings are up to your standard, that's great. Personally, though, I listened to a bunch of your clips and I'll just say that I disagree with LikeASong and Bean...

2manyrocks · « **Reply #10 on:** April 08, 2014, 03:20:19 PM »

DR-05 at $60-$20 rebate plus a $10 mini SDHC card is about a small an investment one can make in a useable starting point that might or might not walk off.

UnknownVT · « **Reply #11 on:** April 08, 2014, 03:37:49 PM »

Quote from: aaronji on April 08, 2014, 02:56:44 PM

^^^ I have been to more than enough shows to know that if you're stuff isn't nailed down, there is some chance it will walk away. Not just audio gear, either (jackets, phones, keys, coolers, etc.). I even know someone who took her shoes off to dance at a show in NYC and had her shoes poached...

As for the audio from the internals on these Tascams, like I said, it depends on what level of quality you find acceptable. This, of course, is purely subjective. If these recordings are up to your standard, that's great. Personally, though, I listened to a bunch of your clips and I'll just say that I disagree with LikeASong and Bean...

I have absolutely no disagreement with your take - and am grateful for your input.
and depending on one's location I agree with things "walking"

Of course internals on basically cheap digital recorders cannot possibly match top grade microphone and recording equipment -
I said as much I would not dare even to suggest such a thing.

However the internals from these recorders do surprisingly well
- even if you don't like the samples I posted -
please try the one cd2go posted of Grace Potter & Nocturnals .

I may still be a neophyte compared to most here - but I have listened to more live music than most -
doing photography of shows - at my peak I did 24 acts in one week -
and weekend of March 22-3 I did over 24 hours over two days at the Chicken Raid 2014.

I think I have good ears - although I do not claim to be "golden"
I do listen and examine recordings carefully using both my home HiFi system (taking over 1 month to audition my speakers alone)
and using headphones like the now legendary Sony MDR-V6 and the Philips SHE3580
I am not trying to boast - but just to say I do not have "cloth ears" -
but like you said it is all down to personal take - I recognize that recordings off these internal mics do fall short of true professional live location recordings -
but they do compare favorably to many live recordings I have heard from places like BT.eTree and Archive.org -
that does not mean the internals are the "bestest" - far from it (otherwise everybody would be recording with them) -
but they do acquit themselves quite well.

Thanks,

UnknownVT · « **Reply #12 on:** April 09, 2014, 04:45:45 PM »

My order from Guitar Center arrived today -

Size comparison -

The main body of the DR-05 looks identical to that of the DR-07MkII -
but the DR-05 seems significantly smaller because of the simpler mic set up.

FWIW - I did some side-by-side recording tests - off CD on my home HiFi system

1. Excerpt from Lazarus Heart by Sting -

not my image - off the web re-sized and re-hosted
Recorder A Download (2.73MB)
Recorder B Download (2.73MB)
Recorder C Download (2.81MB)
Recorder D Download (2.84MB)

2. Excerpt from Erik Satie's Gymnopedie 1 played by Pascal Roge (classical acoustic piano)

not my image - off the web re-sized and re-hosted
Recorder A Download (2.09MB)
Recorder B Download (2.22MB)
Recorder C Download (2.13MB)
Recorder D Download (2.22.MB)

3. Excerpt from Recuerdos de la Alhambra played by John Williams (classical acoustic guitar)

not my image - off the web re-sized and re-hosted
Recorder A Download (2.67MB)
Recorder B Download (2.69MB)
Recorder C Download (2.8MB)
Recorder D Download (2.76MB)

psychwolf · « **Reply #13 on:** April 13, 2014, 05:02:30 PM »

Hey, here's my first official tape with the DR-05 I ordered last week. Let me know what you think, I was very happy with the results! Recorded at max .wav settings:

https://soundcloud.com/psychwolf/sleepcomesdown-live-at-the

I'm trying out the DR-40 tonight, so I'll post something similar to compare.

psychwolf · « **Reply #14 on:** April 13, 2014, 05:11:12 PM »

Quote from: aaronji on April 08, 2014, 09:00:44 AM

You should also think about what sort of quality you want out of your recordings. If you're only interested in a souvenir for yourself, then the internals on these Tascams might be sufficient. Otherwise, you might want to consider other options.

It is better than what bands are going to get from most audience recordings imo and it's of value to more than just me I'd say, including for networking shares for the bands I support. I can't afford the top quality recording gear yet, so while I'm aware the quality could be better, I think this is a good quality start to improve upon slowly as I get spare change to get bigger.

See my post above this for my first recording with a DR-05, I'd be curious to see what you think! I leveled a bit with sound forge.

UnknownVT · « **Reply #15 on:** April 14, 2014, 12:12:08 AM »

Quote from: psychwolf on April 13, 2014, 05:02:30 PM

Hey, here's my first official tape with the DR-05 I ordered last week. Let me know what you think, I was very happy with the results! Recorded at max .wav settings:

Good stuff - glad you like the recorder.

I got mine too and here's a sample of a completely different genre of music - from today -

I included the DR-05 in the photo.

Download (4.55MB)

An advantage of these recorders is it encourages taking out to record -
the quality is more than acceptable - in fact if care is taken in positioning and record levels - can be darned good
(again I will qualify that they may not compare directly with true pro live recordings -
but then how many here even with great equipment can claim that all the time?)

This DR-05 (as well as the DR-07MkII) has a Peak Reduction setting.

From the Review of the Tascam DR-40 by Jeff Towne

Quote

Peak reduction mode is a clever way of setting levels: you set your input gain manually, using the up-down rocker switch on the left side of the recorder, but if a loud sound that would overload the input is registered, the input gain is automatically turned down to a safe level. The input gain remains at that lower level. This mode will not raise the input gain automatically, it only reduces the level in response to incoming audio levels. It can be raised again manually if desired, but this is an easy way to set maximum levels without any of the artifacts of the Auto Level or the Limiter, which adjust the gain dynamically in response to the input, but can create an unpleasant pumping effect because the input gain is being automatically adjusted up and down.

aaronji · « **Reply #16 on:** April 14, 2014, 06:59:14 AM »

Quote from: psychwolf on April 13, 2014, 05:11:12 PM

It is better than what bands are going to get from most audience recordings imo and it's of value to more than just me I'd say, including for networking shares for the bands I support. I can't afford the top quality recording gear yet, so while I'm aware the quality could be better, I think this is a good quality start to improve upon slowly as I get spare change to get bigger.

See my post above this for my first recording with a DR-05, I'd be curious to see what you think! I leveled a bit with sound forge.

I don't know about that; there are definitely a lot of crappy audience recordings out there, but there are some really fantastic ones as well. To me, this recording is anemic in the low end, lacks detail and clarity, has muffled vocals and sounds kind of tinny in the highs. Personally, I wouldn't spend much time listening to it. I guess if it was a favorite band or performance, or if I was a collector, that might alter the calculus a bit. At any rate, as I have mentioned, it depends on what you find listenable.

I think you can achieve notably better results without spending a fortune on gear, incidentally...

Also, you may want to consider tracking your recordings and converting them to a lower bit rate/sampling frequency if you want to provide samples for a thread like this. It was a nearly 900 MB 24/96 file; it would have been nice to grab a song or two in smaller files...

Quote from: UnknownVT on April 14, 2014, 12:12:08 AM

An advantage of these recorders is it encourages taking out to record -
the quality is more than acceptable - in fact if care is taken in positioning and record levels - can be darned good
(again I will qualify that they may not compare directly with true pro live recordings -
but then how many here even with great equipment can claim that all the time?)

All other things being equal (such as position), you'll get a better recording the (great) majority of the time with better mics...You're a photographer, right? Do you use a cheap point-and-shoot or a fancy DSLR? I bring a cheap one to shows and I find the photos to be good enough for me and my purposes. I doubt you would find the same...

psychwolf · « **Reply #17 on:** April 14, 2014, 09:02:18 AM »

Quote from: aaronji on April 14, 2014, 06:59:14 AM

I think you can achieve notably better results without spending a fortune on gear, incidentally...

What would you suggest to improve results?

Any recommended mics to the DR-40 and/or even the DR-05 for small clubs?

earmonger · « **Reply #18 on:** April 14, 2014, 10:24:11 AM »

It's a clear recording but very midrange-heavy, where voice and lead guitar are. I find it kind of fatiguing because the voice and guitar are so in-your-face.

I couldn't find specs online for the mics, other than that they are omnis, but I suspect there is a steep bass roll-off around 100 Hz.

You might be able to restore some of it with SoundForge if the lows were picked up to begin with. I just don't hear much bass drum at all, so I don't know if it's rolled off or cut off.

This is why you're going to end up getting external mics and a battery box

UnknownVT · « **Reply #19 on:** April 14, 2014, 11:22:26 AM »

Quote from: aaronji on April 14, 2014, 06:59:14 AM

All other things being equal (such as position), you'll get a better recording the (great) majority of the time with better mics...You're a photographer, right? Do you use a cheap point-and-shoot or a fancy DSLR? I bring a cheap one to shows and I find the photos to be good enough for me and my purposes. I doubt you would find the same...

I would not disagree - that's why I had the qualification/disclaimer.

You do make a very valid point and used a very good analogy.

However, as with all things, that is a generality.

But there are two very important aspects to consider, please -

(1) Just because of ownership of professional equipment does not mean professional results -
that is definitely true for photography and I would think audio recordings as well.
As posters will attest most of the time position trumps equipment -
again with the caveat the equipment has to be adequate.

(2) The assumption point-and-shoots (and digital recorders internal mics) are inadequate and inevitably give inadequate results.
This is simply not true -
in terms of photography -
Most digital cameras including p&s are quite capable of publishable results
- it's the user and subject that makes the main difference.

Would one consider an album cover of a published CD adequate?

CD published by the Music Maker Relief Foundation
This shot was taken with a point-and-shoot -

2Mp Canon Digital ELPH S100

Web-sized photo of the original with EXIF metadata - so one can see it's not from some other camera -

OK that's a charitable foundation - and perhaps they'd use anything to be "charitable"?

Then how about an established weekly publication - Atlanta's Creative Loafing (link to photo)?
that shot was taken on a p&s -

Canon Powershot S80

again the web-sized photo of the original with EXIF metadata - so one can see it's not from some other camera -

I do realize you don't think much of the recordings in the thread I pointed to - so I can't argue with that -
- but again I will reference -
please try listening honestly to the recording cd2go posted of Grace Potter & Nocturnals .

Getting back to point (1) about positioning - the advantage sometimes of these recorders with internal mics is that they can be positioned where full equipment cannot - especially at typical musical venues.
and we know position trumps equipment most of the time.....
again, please, I am not even daring to attempt to claim that these cheapo recorders can compare to true professional live location recordings -
but how many can truly claim that even with much more expensive gear?

Anyway - the point is one can be critical - but ought to be helpful too - with constructive criticism and ways to improve one's recordings - even with recorders and internal mics - that will give a good foundation for when one does invest in better equipment - point out specifically where the sonic shortcomings are, so a person can learn how to improve the recording with the gear they have and point out when better equipment has to be used to achieve the better results.

I am forever grateful to this forum for the very helpful and generous advice given in thread - Tascam/Teac VR-10 Digital Recorder

aaronji · « **Reply #20 on:** April 14, 2014, 11:55:32 AM »

Quote from: psychwolf on April 14, 2014, 09:02:18 AM

What would you suggest to improve results?

Any recommended mics to the DR-40 and/or even the DR-05 for small clubs?

To the extent that you can manage it, I find that getting the mics closer and higher can really help.

As for mics, if you have both of those recorders, you have tons of options. Depends a lot on your budget and the extent to which size is an important characteristic for you...

Quote from: UnknownVT on April 14, 2014, 11:22:26 AM

(1) Just because of ownership of professional equipment does not mean professional results -
that is definitely true for photography and I would think audio recordings as well.
As posters will attest most of the time position trumps equipment -
again with the caveat the equipment has to be adequate.

No doubt; I never said otherwise. But, as I posted previously, "All other things being equal (such as position), you'll get a better recording the (great) majority of the time with better mics."

Quote from: UnknownVT on April 14, 2014, 11:22:26 AM

(2) The assumption point-and-shoots (and digital recorders internal mics) are inadequate and inevitably give inadequate results.
This is simply not true -
in terms of photography -
Most digital cameras including p&s are quite capable of publishable results
- it's the user and subject that makes the main difference.

Actually, I wasn't making that assumption at all. I have even seen some beautiful photos taken with phones. But a good camera in capable hands will usually yield better results than an iPhone. Given the choice between a point-and-shoot and a DSLR, for an event you really want to capture, which would you choose?

Quote from: UnknownVT on April 14, 2014, 11:22:26 AM

Getting back to point (1) about positioning - the advantage sometimes of these recorders with internal mics is that they can be positioned where full equipment cannot - especially at typical musical venues.
and we know position trumps equipment most of the time.....
again, please, I am not even daring to attempt to claim that these cheapo recorders can compare to true professional live location recordings -
but how many can truly claim that even with much more expensive gear?

Where can you place a recorder that you couldn't place a pair of external mics? Maybe there are a few situations, but not that many, at least not in the venues I go to. You can build a very low profile rig these days...

P.S. I don't think that Grace Potter recording is great either. Way better recordings of her available.

UnknownVT · « **Reply #21 on:** April 14, 2014, 12:54:44 PM »

Quote from: aaronji on April 14, 2014, 11:55:32 AM

Quote from: UnknownVT on April 14, 2014, 11:22:26 AM
(2) The assumption point-and-shoots (and digital recorders internal mics) are inadequate and inevitably give inadequate results.
This is simply not true -
in terms of photography -
Most digital cameras including p&s are quite capable of publishable results
- it's the user and subject that makes the main difference.

Actually, I wasn't making that assumption at all. I have even seen some beautiful photos taken with phones. But a good camera in capable hands will usually yield better results than an iPhone. Given the choice between a point-and-shoot and a DSLR, for an event you really want to capture, which would you choose?

I am not being argumentative -
again I'would not disagree with you - as a generality -

Unfortunately you have just chosen the wrong person -
I DO actually choose a compact p&s style camera over my dSLR for the majority of my important shots -
I did the entire 2 days of the annual Chicken Raid (link to album) with

Canon PowerShot G15 (in fact both years 2013-4 were taken on the G15)

I do acknowledge the G15 is better than most p&s -
but I have deliberately chosen it over my dSLR (which is theoretically better technically) - because it does do better for my shooting situation.

I did a CD release gig (link) at a very, very dark venue just the other night (Sat Apr/12) entirely with the G15.

This latter album is very educational because the first part of the album from 2011 was from my dSLR at the time -
the venues are comparably dark (so dark that it is mostly below the both the metering and focusing limits of my dSLR).

In fact the majority of the shots in my web page (since Jan/2013 - are on the G15)
previous to that - and you probably don't want to hear this

were on an $80 p&s the Canon PowerShot A1200

This shot was from that $80 camera -

EXIF metadata attached on this shot to confirm it is from the $80 Canon A1200

This is not about photography - sorry for being OT -
but I am trying to make a point that these recorders with internal mics can acquit themselves quite well -
that even more experienced tapers have commented give good recordings
(your disagreement not withstanding, but acknowledged)

UnknownVT · « **Reply #22 on:** April 14, 2014, 01:18:41 PM »

Quote from: Jon Stoppable on April 14, 2014, 01:04:14 PM

Often with live recordings you don't have the choice of placement, so instead you have to choose your tools. Low-end digital point & shoots generally don't have good telephoto performance, or might have distortion at very wide angles, for example. With sound, if you have to be far from your source and you also have to use directional microphones, you'll have limited low frequency response with the smaller and less expensive built-in mics. If you could put that same unit on the stage or very close to it, you might get a nice recording.

In your cafe picture I'd avoid placing the recorder directly on a table because you'll get interference from reflections off of that surface. That will cause peaks and nulls in frequency response. Get close and up if you can.

Thank you very much for the advice - much appreciated.

From what you are saying the recorders with internal mics can give acceptable results - as long as care is taken with positioning -
(again full acknowledgement that all things being equal better equipment will give better results)

But one of the points I tried to make is that a compact recorder can be placed where fuller equipment might not be able to -
and thank you regarding the advice regarding reflections off the table -
do you actually hear it, if so can you please point out where so I can learn to listen for it, please?

I was in a neophyte way aware of that - considering the casual and unattended nature of my recording (secondary to my photos)
I did place the recorder on a folded sock/homemade carrier bag to try to minimize that.

Thank you for the constructive input.

UnknownVT · « **Reply #23 on:** April 14, 2014, 02:55:45 PM »

Quote from: Jon Stoppable on April 14, 2014, 02:44:30 PM

I haven't listened to the track, I only need to know what happens to sound when you get reflections off of a surface, which is almost always bad. Experiment at home with a repeatable source (your stereo will work fine) and various mic placements.

Placing a mic very near a surface can be beneficial in some circumstances though--try it and see. But if you can't be right on a surface, you want to get as far away from the surface as you can.

Thank you, thank you - yes, I have actually done just that in reply #12 above - using 3 very different CD recordings.

Just so to put things into context and show I am not a complete idiot and being merely argumentative here -
I call myself a neophyte here compared to the many serious tapers (whom I have enormous respect).
I do recording with mere digi-recorders with internal mics – because they are really for my own use – a souvenir if you like – they have to be by nature casual and unattended because I am there primarily to take photos.

Excuses over – I have found these digi-recorders do make what sound like pretty adequate recordings – I now have 4 recorders (Teac VR-10 cost me less than $30, Tascam DR-07MkII bought as my more “serious” recorder ( I got it for <$70), the DR-03 and now the DR-05 both circa $40).

Now full disclaimer - I do not for one moment even dare suggest that these are even comparable to professional live location recordings.

But I think they do pretty well – not merely for what they are.

My creds -

I have long been a music fan – doing photography for many many years and some time ago casual live recordings.

I was enthusiastic enough to have done my research and built my own microphones - out of the then very well regarded Panasonic capsules – recording first with a Sony DAT TCD-D7 DAT recorder, then various Sony MiniDiscs.

I actually published instructions on my build – that Tidmarsh (my posting contemporary) has on his web page - Binaural Microphone Construction (link) - I see that has been referred to here on TapersSection- I am the Vincent he refers to.

I have found my original post when my e-mail was on psilink.com (long defunct) -
DAT-Heads Digest #864 EDIT to ADD - this link no longer works as SolOrb.com as dropped its DAT Heads Archive

The page can still be found with the Internet Archive Way Back Machine -

https://web.archive.org/web/20070504223320/http://solorb.com/dat-heads/digests/V1.800/D864

header -
From: VT <p00061@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: Follow up - Stealth mics for Sony DAT TCD-D7
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 94 16:15:13 -0500

That's 20 years ago to the week!!!!

Just in case anyone has doubts about the veracity of this and I just managed to find a coincidental same name -
here's a recent shot of that set up with my original Sony D7 DAT recorder – (bit expensive to buy just to fake a point)

The point is I do trust my ears -
but I am also here to learn.

Thanks,

aaronji · « **Reply #24 on:** April 14, 2014, 03:12:29 PM »

Quote from: UnknownVT on April 14, 2014, 12:54:44 PM

Unfortunately you have just chosen the wrong person -
I DO actually choose a compact p&s style camera over my dSLR for the majority of my important shots -
I did the entire 2 days of the annual Chicken Raid (link to album) with Canon PowerShot G15 (in fact both years 2013-4 were taken on the G15)
I do acknowledge the G15 is better than most p&s -
but I have deliberately chosen it over my dSLR (which is theoretically better technically) - because it does do better for my shooting situation.

That's not really what I meant by "cheap point-and-shoot". I was taking two extremes ("cheap point-and-shoot or a fancy DSLR") for the sake of the analogy, but I also at least implied that there were options in the middle ("I think you can achieve notably better results without spending a fortune on gear, incidentally..."). That camera is going for around $400. For that amount of money, you can get a pretty good recording set-up together, such as an R05 ($200) with CA11s or CA14s (either model, with both omnis and cardioids) and a CA battery box (the whole CA package is $200). Or a cheaper recorder, some AT853s ($200) and a battery box (~ $40). With some willingness to buy used or shop around a bit, you could probably even stretch that $400 to include some of the accessories that you would need. Those options will generally allow you to make better recordings than the DR-05, in my opinion...

But, as I have mentioned several times, whatever you like is the set-up you should use. They are your recordings after all!

UnknownVT · « **Reply #25 on:** April 14, 2014, 03:23:43 PM »

Quote from: aaronji on April 14, 2014, 03:12:29 PM

That's not really what I meant by "cheap point-and-shoot". I was taking two extremes ("cheap point-and-shoot or a fancy DSLR") for the sake of the analogy, but I also at least implied that there were options in the middle ("I think you can achieve notably better results without spending a fortune on gear, incidentally..."). That camera is going for around $400. For that amount of money, you can get a pretty good recording set-up together, such as an R05 ($200) with CA11s or CA14s (either model, with both omnis and cardioids) and a CA battery box (the whole CA package is $200). Or a cheaper recorder, some AT853s ($200) and a battery box (~ $40). With some willingness to buy used or shop around a bit, you could probably even stretch that $400 to include some of the accessories that you would need. Those options will generally allow you to make better recordings than the DR-05, in my opinion...

But, as I have mentioned several times, whatever you like is the set-up you should use. They are your recordings after all!

You know, I don't think we were ever really in disagreement -
all I was trying to say was compact digi-recorders can make acceptable/adequate recording that satisfy many -
of course all things being equal better equipment can make better recordings.

I have shot on cheaper p&s including the $80 one shown in my post above yours, and I did deliberately choose to use it over my dSLR in most smaller clubs, because it does actually do better.

For my usage a compact digi-recorder off its internal mics is all I can really ever use since I cannot be attentive and the recordings are casual - but they have turned out to be surprisingly good - much better than I ever expected - as I said in the post above yours I have been doing this for well over 20 years - including building my own mics.

I realize it is not apples to apples but these cheapo recorders seem to do better to my ears than the home-built mics with my olde DAT recorder and/or MiniDisc - and I thought those were pretty good at the time.

Like I said I am not even disagreeing with you only to point out that compact digi-recorders can make pretty "good" recordings.

aaronji · « **Reply #26 on:** April 14, 2014, 05:00:22 PM »

^^^ As I mentioned before, I really think it all depends on what your expectations are for a given recording situation and whether or not your set-up can deliver to those expectations on a fairly consistent basis. I tried a compact recorder with internals a few times and thought the results were pretty good. The first time I tried external mics, though, there was a very substantial improvement. As I refined my set-up to reflect my specific recording goals (and typical environments), there were further improvements. And there will be more in the future!

In the end, for me (and I think for most of us) it's a hobby. If my recordings satisfy me, that's what matters...

earmonger · « **Reply #27 on:** April 14, 2014, 06:36:01 PM »

This thread is getting a little tangled--never happens on TS, right?

My response was to psychwolf's psych fest recordings--better mics would help. I haven't listed to UnknownVT's recordings.

As noted above by others, Church Audio CA-14 or what Chris Church now says are his best omnis, the CA-11 MK II, should blow away the internals on the Tascam. I've got the CA-14 omnis and a 9V battery box and they are superb. If the CA-11 are better...well, too bad this year's tax refund was already spoken for.

Psychwolf, your external mic choice, along with budget, is between cardioids--directional mics--and omnis, omnidirectional mics. If you are generally in as good as spot as you were for the Tascam recordings, then omnis would suit you. Cardioids are for tuning out audience noise and room reverb, and you didn't seem to be suffering much from either one in your recording. The DR-05 mics are omnis.

I've stated before that I'm not a big cardioids fan, though I have never used any higher-end cardioids. To me they have a cramped, "backless" sound while omnis are more immersive.

But if you are in a situation where you're far away from the sound source, and people are chatting away all around you, cardioids would be the way to go. Or you can get both in a set from Church Audio and bring along whatever would suit that particular concert.

Or if you want a starter pair of omnis for about $70, get these with the clips (and none of the other extras). Also get a 9V or 12V battery box to record through Line-in.
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-BMC-2

UnknownVT · « **Reply #28 on:** April 14, 2014, 07:11:21 PM »

Quote from: aaronji on April 14, 2014, 05:00:22 PM

^^^ As I mentioned before, I really think it all depends on what your expectations are for a given recording situation and whether or not your set-up can deliver to those expectations on a fairly consistent basis. I tried a compact recorder with internals a few times and thought the results were pretty good. The first time I tried external mics, though, there was a very substantial improvement. As I refined my set-up to reflect my specific recording goals (and typical environments), there were further improvements. And there will be more in the future!

In the end, for me (and I think for most of us) it's a hobby. If my recordings satisfy me, that's what matters...

Quote from: Jon Stoppable on April 14, 2014, 05:33:26 PM

If you already have made your own omni binaurals you can use them as required. They will useful in many situations where the built-in directionals are not, and vice versa. Again, like having both a 28mm and 85mm lens.

Once again thank you gentlemen - appreciate the input.

Let me reiterate once more - no, I don't think these compact recorders are the "bestest" -
but they do acquit themselves quite well -
to my ears anyway, and certainly I don't find the recordings anywhere near unacceptable -
in fact I am quite impressed with some - enough to post here and open to critique.

I don't disagree people were probably kind, and want to encourage me - so I have accept that might be the case -
but there was no need to heap the praise though.

Again I recognize I might not be experienced enough with my own recording to recognize the shortcomings -
that why I do post and want to hear the possible problems I might not be hearing.....

FWIW - I did some more controlled recordings with all 4 of my recorders from CD on my HiFi system -

excerpt from Pulo do gato by Badi Assad (jazz acoustic guitar) with very wide dynamics off a well recorded CD on Chesky - they claim 128x over-sampling.....

Recorder A Download (2.32MB)
Recorder B Download (2.42MB)
Recorder C Download (2.31MB)
Recorder D Download (2.31MB)

psychwolf · « **Reply #29 on:** April 14, 2014, 10:29:43 PM »

Quote from: earmonger on April 14, 2014, 10:24:11 AM

It's a clear recording but very midrange-heavy, where voice and lead guitar are. I find it kind of fatiguing because the voice and guitar are so in-your-face.

I couldn't find specs online for the mics, other than that they are omnis, but I suspect there is a steep bass roll-off around 100 Hz.

You might be able to restore some of it with SoundForge if the lows were picked up to begin with. I just don't hear much bass drum at all, so I don't know if it's rolled off or cut off.

This is why you're going to end up getting external mics and a battery box

You have a good ear. I actually used soundforge to first raise the entire volume up by at least 300% so that was my first problem -- low levels. Then I cut the bass with the equalizer so I could bring out the guitar more and attempt to take the vocals out of the background, but still didn't really achieve the intent with the vocals. I found the bass guitar started to distort everything a little (but not the bass drum), so I removed that low but maybe I pulled the bass drum with it a bit.

psychwolf · « **Reply #30 on:** April 14, 2014, 10:38:46 PM »

Quote from: earmonger on April 14, 2014, 06:36:01 PM

As noted above by others, Church Audio CA-14 or what Chris Church now says are his best omnis, the CA-11 MK II, should blow away the internals on the Tascam. I've got the CA-14 omnis and a 9V battery box and they are superb. If the CA-11 are better...well, too bad this year's tax refund was already spoken for.

Psychwolf, your external mic choice, along with budget, is between cardioids--directional mics--and omnis, omnidirectional mics. If you are generally in as good as spot as you were for the Tascam recordings, then omnis would suit you. Cardioids are for tuning out audience noise and room reverb, and you didn't seem to be suffering much from either one in your recording. The DR-05 mics are omnis.

I've stated before that I'm not a big cardioids fan, though I have never used any higher-end cardioids. To me they have a cramped, "backless" sound while omnis are more immersive.

But if you are in a situation where you're far away from the sound source, and people are chatting away all around you, cardioids would be the way to go. Or you can get both in a set from Church Audio and bring along whatever would suit that particular concert.

Or if you want a starter pair of omnis for about $70, get these with the clips (and none of the other extras). Also get a 9V or 12V battery box to record through Line-in.
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-BMC-2

Hey, thanks for the input, I feel pretty good where I am then since I did buy a pair of omnis like that -- the type that go in your ear though -- I might just return to get omnis I can clip instead. I didn't think about a battery box to record through line-in -- so in other words, I'll need to power those omnis since there is no phantom power in the dr-5's mic /ext in line?

And I think I could live with the goal of going for those church omnis when I get the cash some day.. I feel like I have a solid plan now thanks to these forums. Now I just need to go to learn some sound forge leveling, and try out my first soundboard recording with the dr-40

UnknownVT · « **Reply #31 on:** April 14, 2014, 10:44:09 PM »

Quote from: psychwolf on April 14, 2014, 10:29:43 PM

I actually used soundforge to first raise the entire volume up by at least 300% so that was my first problem -- low levels. Then I cut the bass with the equalizer so I could bring out the guitar more and attempt to take the vocals out of the background, but still didn't really achieve the intent with the vocals. I found the bass guitar started to distort everything a little (but not the bass drum), so I removed that low but maybe I pulled the bass drum with it a bit.

If you are trying to show the recorder's ability - try posting a short section like 2-3 minutes of a significant part - with NO post processing other than volume (if that was your problem)
The use of ReplayGain is a good way to do it - it is like merely turning up the volume control - but with a check so as not to distort any of the peaks.

That way people can comments on the actual recorder's ability and not your post processing.

Cheers,

earmonger · « **Reply #32 on:** April 16, 2014, 04:02:24 AM »

Plug-in power, supplied from the mic jack, tends to be 2-3 volts at best. A battery box provides 9V or 12V. It helps prevent distortion from little mics.

Phantom power is an entirely different situation with 45V, usually from an external source, for high-end microphones that need it.

2manyrocks · « **Reply #33 on:** April 16, 2014, 11:12:49 AM »

OP: two mic recording via the tascam internals or via a pair of headworn mics will recording the entire sound they hear. To use an analogy, the egg has already been scrambled before it arrived at your mics. Post processing is extremely limited in its ability to unscramble the egg. Generally speaking, the goal is to get as good a recording as possible on the front end with limited post processing. If you're having to crank something in your post processing, that suggests to me there was a problem somewhere in the recording itself. Good recordings are often a matter of a few degrees this way or that way, not a 180 degree change of course settings, in my experience (others feel free to share their experience).

If you recorded the entire band's instruments and vocals separately via a 32 channel multitrack recorder, your options to change the mix would be much better.

Since you can only record what's presented to your recorder, your goal is to position your recorder to record the sound present probably around -12db to leave some headroom and record as cleanly as the circumstances allow.

As far as powering external mics is concerned, you have to research the power requirements of the particular mics you want to use to see if they will run on the O5's internal plug in power (3v or less) or if they will run off a 9v battery box or if they require more power still (true phantom power). Mics that are fed less current than they require to operate either won't operate at all or will distort the recording.

Besides the church audio mics, Jon Stoppable (Naiant audio) also sells a small set of external mics that don't get the same attention on TS that the CA mics get.

It's like everything else, we all learn by asking questions and trying it for ourselves, asking more questions....

UnknownVT · « **Reply #34 on:** April 16, 2014, 11:47:27 AM »

Quote from: 2manyrocks on April 16, 2014, 11:12:49 AM

OP: two mic recording via the tascam internals or via a pair of headworn mics will recording the entire sound they hear. To use an analogy, the egg has already been scrambled before it arrived at your mics. Post processing is extremely limited in its ability to unscramble the egg. Generally speaking, the goal is to get as good a recording as possible on the front end with limited post processing. If you're having to crank something in your post processing, that suggests to me there was a problem somewhere in the recording itself. Good recordings are often a matter of a few degrees this way or that way, not a 180 degree change of course settings, in my experience (others feel free to share their experience).

If you recorded the entire band's instruments and vocals separately via a 32 channel multitrack recorder, your options to change the mix would be much better.

Since you can only record what's presented to your recorder, your goal is to position your recorder to record the sound present probably around -12db to leave some headroom and record as cleanly as the circumstances allow.

Valuable advice thanks.
One thing I have learned is that positioning often trumps equipment
(within reason and the adequacy of the equipment of course)

The Tascam DR-05 manual (and many of their other recorders) actually advise about the -12db level -
even to the point of marking it on the recorder's levels scale -
from page 49 of the Tascam DR-05 manual (pdf)

For my casual and unattended recordings I try to set levels at about -12db - but have Peak Reduction On which would lower the rec level if a there is a loud peak - the level then stays down at the new level
(and does not automatically gain back up - avoids pumping effect)
(for better explanation and the difference between that ALC and limiter, please see the last half of Reply #15 )

Minor point - OP = Opening Poster? If so I am the OP -
I think you are probably addressing psychwolf whose recording had post processing and people are commenting on.

Thanks,

2manyrocks · « **Reply #35 on:** April 16, 2014, 12:32:05 PM »

I believe you're correct now that you bring it up. Seems like there was a discussion about Tascam's choice of level scale elsewhere on TS that suggested staying well below it.

UnknownVT · « **Reply #36 on:** April 16, 2014, 01:50:59 PM »

Quote from: Jon Stoppable on April 16, 2014, 12:18:14 PM

Average level at -12dBFS is probably too high; depending on the style of music peak level can be 20dB higher, sometimes more.

Quote from: 2manyrocks on April 16, 2014, 12:32:05 PM

I believe you're correct now that you bring it up. Seems like there was a discussion about Tascam's choice of level scale elsewhere on TS that suggested staying well below it.

Very cool! thanks for the hints.

I actually now set the recording level too high and allow the Peak Reduction (please see latter part of Reply #15 ) to lower the record level -
I then apply ReplayGain at the default 89db -
this seems to work well for me
(I always record at 24-bit and 48 kHz - I think 24-bits actually gives better dynamic range.)

Thanks guys.

UnknownVT · « **Reply #37 on:** April 16, 2014, 03:28:43 PM »

Quote from: Jon Stoppable on April 16, 2014, 03:06:31 PM

24 bit will yield better dynamic range if the box is capable of greater than 16 bit range in its analog circuit + ADC. I have a box sitting on my bench that advertises 24 bit but the noise floor is at -84dBFS. That's only 15 bit!

That's a very good point -

The Tascam DR-05 in question specs at least 92db S/N ratio -
Page 105 of manual -

is there any way that one can check the reality of those specs?

UnknownVT · « **Reply #38 on:** April 18, 2014, 03:16:39 PM »

Casual unattended live recording off the Tascam DR-05 from last night -
sounds pretty good to me - but I am taken by the performance -
which for me trumps just about everything else -
as long as it's of acceptable sound quality -
it does sound good to me, and more than just acceptable.

God Bless the Child Download (8.37MB)

Tascam DR-05 internal mics - 24bit 48kHz L-PCM original > 44.1k vbr3 + MP3Gain

UnknownVT · « **Reply #39 on:** April 18, 2014, 05:34:34 PM »

Quote from: Jon Stoppable on April 18, 2014, 05:15:21 PM

You know you're cool when you have your own profile on your reso head. Also, you're too cool to let Kenny G on the stage

Hahaha!

I'll let him know that!

EDIT to ADD -
sent him your quote -
his reply -

Quote

Lol!

-hc3
http://thehc3.com

UnknownVT · « **Reply #40 on:** April 18, 2014, 07:31:10 PM »

Quote from: Jon Stoppable on April 18, 2014, 07:12:38 PM

To answer your technical question, 92dB is probably an honest spec...

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply and give details -
it is currently beyond my capabilities and probably intentions to do that -
but I am very grateful for the methodology

I have found this Wikipedia article on bit depth (dynamic range and quantization) very interesting.

Quote

24-bit digital audio has a theoretical maximum SNR of 144 dB, compared to 96 dB for 16-bit; however, as of 2007 digital audio converter technology is limited to a SNR of about 124 dB (21-bit)[12] because of real-world limitations in integrated circuit design. Still, this approximately matches the performance of the human auditory system.[13][14]

Thank you for the info.

2manyrocks · « **Reply #41 on:** April 18, 2014, 08:12:41 PM »

It is just not cool to drum all over the lead singer.

UnknownVT · « **Reply #42 on:** April 18, 2014, 10:31:16 PM »

Quote from: Jon Stoppable on April 18, 2014, 10:25:50 PM

It would be very rare to find 124dB dynamic range in a portable recorder--quieter analog components and ADCs use a lot more power. You'll typically find more like 104dB.

Cool! thanks for the info again -
124db has to be real state of the art -
certainly unlikely to be found in cheapo battery portable recorders.

But it was just interesting that 124db is the limit so far achieved, about 21bit -
whereas 24-bit is 144db.

Thanks again.

UnknownVT · « **Reply #43 on:** July 14, 2014, 12:11:32 AM »

I've started to put the Tascam DR-05 into usage rotation -
here are a few tracks from today -

photo shows where the recorder was placed.

I had set the recording level to what I thought was a level that would allow the Peak Reduction feature to kick in and reduce it.
As it was it was pretty low - where ReplayGain added almost +13db

La Vie en Rose.mp3 - Download (5.11MB)

01 Bei Dir War Es Immer So Schön (With You It Was So Very Beautiful).mp3 - Download (7.29MB)

11 So You.mp3 - Download (5.82MB)

Tascam DR-05 internal mics 24bit 48kHz L-PCM originals > 44.1k vbr3 +RG

Enjoy!

UnknownVT · « **Reply #44 on:** September 15, 2014, 02:06:38 PM »

Quote from: UnknownVT on July 14, 2014, 12:11:32 AM

I've started to put the Tascam DR-05 into usage rotation -
...
11 So You.mp3 - Download (5.82MB)

Tascam DR-05 internal mics 24bit 48kHz L-PCM originals > 44.1k vbr3 +RG

Same tune, same venue, same recorder placement, same band with a change in instrumentation -

107 So You.mp3 - Download (5.75MB)

another from same set -

104 Anouman.mp3 - Download (8.26MB)

set 2 -

206 I Love You.mp3 - Download (6.58MB)

Tascam DR-05 internal mics 24bit 48kHz L-PCM originals > 44.1k vbr3 +RG

enjoy!

UnknownVT · « **Reply #45 on:** October 08, 2014, 02:51:18 AM »

From Sunday (Oct/5/2014)

I thought these turned out pretty well -

So is the Day.mp3 - Download (10.79MB)

Let's Go All In.mp3 - Download (8.26MB)

Tascam DR-05 built-in mics - 24bit 48kHz L-PCM/WAV originals > 44.1kHz vbr3+RG

I have also put these audio recordings into Slidehows with photos I took at the gig and posted them as videos on YouTube -

So is the Day - Bria Skonberg recorded live Steve's Live Music, Sun Oct/5/2014 - Photo Slideshow

Let's Go All In - Bria Skonberg recorded Live - Steve's Live Music Oct/5/2014 Photo Slideshow

UnknownVT · « **Reply #46 on:** December 13, 2014, 02:52:56 AM »

The Tascam DR-05 is now my go to recorder -
the Teac VR-10 and Tascam DR-03 are now for when I really need a very small recorder to be discrete.

I thought this recording, of a Christmas concert in a church, turned out pretty well -

gives a good sense of space and the sound is big too.

02 Gabriel's Message.mp3 - Download (11.24MB)

Tascam DR-05 24bit48kHz WAV original > 44.1k vbr3 +RG

If anyone's interested I shot a video of their longest number on a Panasonic GF5 -
Video on YouTube fullHD 1080p
(use gear icon bottom right of display to set 1080p - then go full screen)

Will Scruggs - Ideo Gloria - Song of Simeon @ Sandy Springs Christian Church - Thu Dec/11/2014 HD

UnknownVT · « **Reply #47 on:** December 28, 2014, 08:04:39 PM »

WAY too good not to share -
I realized I am biased because of the great performances - but these sound really good to me -

02-3 'Round Midnight_Walkin'.mp3 - Download (34.36MB)

Blues.mp3 - Download (21.38MB)

Tascam DR-05 24bit 48kHz WAV original > 44.1k vbr3+RG

I have videos on YouTube of these too -

Russell Gunn - 'Round Midnight @ Churchill Grounds, Atlanta - Sat Dec/27/2014 HD
missing the opening and came in mid way through the alto solo - some of the best parts are captured in the audio recording -
runs directly into this next tune -
Russell Gunn - Walkin' @ Churchill Grounds, Atlanta - Sat Dec/27/2014 HD
I left the audio unseparated.

Russell Gunn - Blues @ Churchill Grounds, Atlanta - Sat Dec/27/2014 HD

Enjoy!

oldfan · « **Reply #48 on:** January 01, 2015, 05:59:50 PM »

Just got one of these for xmas and had a few questions.
I take it a need a battery box or would the mics handle a rock concert?
How much does a 2gig sd mini hold? A 2 hour concert?

thanks

UnknownVT · « **Reply #49 on:** January 01, 2015, 06:23:05 PM »

Quote from: oldfan on January 01, 2015, 05:59:50 PM

I take it a need a battery box or would the mics handle a rock concert?
How much does a 2gig sd mini hold? A 2 hour concert?

The internal mics are rated to 125db SPL -
and the recorder will handle pretty loud concerts from front of stage (my DR-05 is usually set up there)

It depends on the quality set for the recording
2GB can store just about 2 hours for 24bit 48kHz L-PCM

oldfan · « **Reply #50 on:** January 01, 2015, 07:16:18 PM »

So I take I'll need a battery box if I wanna use a external mics.
like these - http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-SPSB-4
thanks

2manyrocks · « **Reply #51 on:** January 01, 2015, 08:44:28 PM »

Some mics like the Audio Technica AT853 will run off the internal plug in power from the DR05 if a 4.7 resistor is added to the mic line as discussed in other threads here. It would be better to use a battery box if your recording something loud. But for a reasonable volume concert, the battery box is not necessary.

There were some AT933s (similar to AT853) in the Yard Sale for several weeks, but they appear to have sold. You might want to keep an eye out for another sale.

UnknownVT · « **Reply #52 on:** January 02, 2015, 07:20:53 PM »

Happy 2015!
Did 3 gigs to bring in the New Year -

The first was a fun gig at a corn-dog eatery -

105 7-40 Zibin Ferstik.mp3 - Download (6.23MB)

204 Greater Lagos Wed. Night Talmud Meeting.mp3 - Download (19MB)

Tascam DR-05 internal mics 24bit 48kHz WAV > 44.1kHz vbr3 +RG

I have videos on YouTube of these:

4th Ward Afro-Klezmer Orch - 7:40 Zibin Ferstik @ Pallookaville - New Year's Eve Dec/31/2014 HD

(part of) 4th Ward Afro-Klezmer Orch - Greater Lagos Talmud @ Pallookaville - New Year's Eve Dec/31/2014 HD

Enjoy!

UnknownVT · « **Reply #53 on:** January 10, 2015, 01:55:12 PM »

Quote from: Ben Turnbull on January 10, 2015, 11:53:00 AM

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/stupid?src=3TP3DRR&&noPopup=true&src=3TP3DRR

FYI, Musicians Friend Stupid deal of the day @ $60. DR-05

Good call, thanks!

I missed it but the DR-05 has recently had a software update to version 2 of firmware:

http://tascam.com/news/display/2220/

pdf Release notes - Tascam DR-05 version 2 Update

UnknownVT · « **Reply #54 on:** January 12, 2015, 01:07:52 PM »

Some really good guitar playing in the jazz/fusion idiom -

Untitled (How Does it Feel).mp3 - Download (6.82MB)

a bonus - great ensemble playing (can really hear the room ambiance on this one) -
Tenor Madness.mp3 - Download (8.28MB)

Tascam DR-05 internal mics 24bit 48kHz WAV originals > 44.1kHz vbr3 +RG
(recorder placed on the bar more or less behind where I took the still photo and the videos below)

I did HD videos on YouTube of these as well -

Adam Goodhue Trio - Untitled (How Does It Feel) @ Churchill Grounds, Atlanta - Wed Jan/7/2015 HD

Adam Goodhue Trio - (part of) Tenor Madness @ Churchill Grounds, Atlanta - Wed Jan/7/2015 HD

UnknownVT · « **Reply #55 on:** January 31, 2015, 02:39:15 PM »

This just sounds really good to me - I wasn't even processing for this track - but another entirely -
but as soon as I heard the intro - I was taken by the SQ - what I mean is the overall balance and impact.

201 Jeannine.mp3 - Download (21.46MB)

Tascam DR-05 internal mics 24bit 48kHz WAV original > 44.1kHz vbr3 +RG

This was the track I was processing for:

202 You Don't Know What Love Is.mp3 - Download (8.22MB)

great vocals -
notice this was the track immediately after the one above -
although the SQ seems good it just does not quite have the overall sound of the previous -
must be the sound of multiple horns suited the room -
although the walking double bass was fantastic on the first track too.

opsopcopolis · « **Reply #56 on:** February 01, 2015, 10:06:29 AM »

That sounds great. Nice and warm. I love my DR-05 although i never use the internals

UnknownVT · « **Reply #57 on:** February 01, 2015, 01:13:58 PM »

Quote from: opsopcopolis on February 01, 2015, 10:06:29 AM

That sounds great. Nice and warm. I love my DR-05 although i never use the internals

Thank you very much - appreciate the comments.

As I have explained earlier I am at gigs primarily to do photography and now videos - so the audio recording is a bonus for me - I regard it as a souvenir of sorts.
By that nature I have to record informally and unattended, so occassionally the recorder is in what can only be best described as "ridiculous" positions.

Anyway this is one case - in a tiny venue that was jam packed, and I do mean wall to wall people, packed in like sardines.
I was so close that I could only take "close ups" even with my wide-angle lens:

Anyway this is my current favorite new song of theirs - so I might be biased -
and I know it would have not been possible to set up any external mics anywhere
(OK maybe outside of the venue!)

06 Empire State.mp3 - Download (7.16MB)

I think the vocals are a little recessed - but that seemed like how it was throughout the night -
the instrumentation sounds good to me,
the SQ is much better than I had any right to expect.

opsopcopolis · « **Reply #58 on:** February 01, 2015, 06:42:12 PM »

Damn, yeah, that sounds pretty good considering the situation. Obviously a bit muffled but everything can be heard relatively well

UnknownVT · « **Reply #59 on:** February 02, 2015, 12:00:51 PM »

Quote from: opsopcopolis on February 01, 2015, 06:42:12 PM

Damn, yeah, that sounds pretty good considering the situation. Obviously a bit muffled but everything can be heard relatively well

Thank you so much for your kind comments.

It is obviously not the best ever SQ -
I really was expecting the recording to be of horrible SQ
as it turned out to be more than acceptable -
caveat: under the circumstances....

The Tascam DR-05 was placed at about knee height and about 3ft from the vocalist
in the wedge shaped space between the vocalist's monitor speaker and the sub-woofer it was on!
I did have the DR-05 on my homemade pouch from a sock but on the sub-woofer and under the vocal monitor....
So not only was it in a ridiculous place - it was also very loud being so close,
and facing the drums only buffered by the vocalist's legs.... er-hum.

Like they say gimme a break - who in their right minds would place microphones there.....

I did, because there was no where else I could safely place my recorder, even if I could get there through the sardines!

So despite the sub-par SQ I am absolutely blown away that I managed to get a recording that was even acceptable!

FWIW - here's a video on YouTube of the same song - I shot only on the second outing with my camera - but I consider one of my best so far....

Little Tybee - Empire State - Live @ CL Best of ATL, Goat Farm, Wed Sept/24/2014 HD

The basic technical aspects are not as good since the camera is recording via its internal mics with AAC at 48kHz 128kb/sec (that rate is regarded as "transparent")
but the sound balance is typical - with obviously a different space -
always feel the vocals are a little recessed -
but it really seems to suit the overall balance and harmonies with the instrumentation.

opsopcopolis · « **Reply #60 on:** February 03, 2015, 09:55:54 AM »

Well that would definitely explain the sq/balance, especially the lack of vocals. That's a pretty standard part of recording on stage, definitely comes across in the camera recording too, although that one is a little brighter

UnknownVT · « **Reply #61 on:** February 03, 2015, 11:07:18 AM »

Quote from: opsopcopolis on February 03, 2015, 09:55:54 AM

Well that would definitely explain the sq/balance, especially the lack of vocals. That's a pretty standard part of recording on stage, definitely comes across in the camera recording too, although that one is a little brighter

Thank you again for your comments.

Sorry, I probably wasn't very clear in my previous post -
the video was from an entirely different date (over 4 months ago) and different venue -
it was much, much bigger (a hall), and definitely no where near packed the way the audio recording venue was -
in fact it was pretty sparse.

From the video one can see I was much further back from the stage -
if the video's audio sounded even vaguely similar -
that means their regular sound balance does seem to have the vocals recessed,
and makes that Tascam DR-05 audio only recording remarkable,
that under the ridiculous circumstances -
it could even manage to achieve a balance comparable to a recording (video) that was much less handicapped.

opsopcopolis · « **Reply #62 on:** February 03, 2015, 01:53:07 PM »

Ah ok, thanks for the clarification. I must admit I didn't watch the video very closely, mostly just loaded it to hear the comparison in the audio

UnknownVT · « **Reply #63 on:** September 01, 2015, 02:39:49 PM »

It's been a while...

First, a recording on the DR-05 (internal mics) in a great sounding space -

It's an old wood church that's been moved/rebuilt on a nature preserve/conservancy -
I was astounded by the natural sound quality during the sound check -

Tascam DR-05 24bit 48kHz WAV > 44.1k vbr3 + RG -

04 Anouman.mp3 - Download (6.35MB)

08 Songe d'Automne.mp3 - Download (5.03MB)

09 It was so Beautiful with You.mp3 - Download (7.01MB)

11 Indifference.mp3 - Download (5.54MB)

I am there to do photography, but the (casual) audio recording is a bonus -
and in this case a real treat.

I realized I do photography (and casual audio recording) basically to try to share my experience.

It took a while to dawn on me video was the way to go -
luckily I started to do videos on Panasonic mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras (ILC) -
although Panasonic ILC cameras record MP4 audio with 48 kHz 128kHz AAC (regarded as "transparent", though lossy)
I think the quality is acceptable, as they use Panasonic mics - long been highly regarded and the basis of many DIY and indie mics.

Couple of videos from that same gig -

Bonaventure Quartet All Strings - For Sephora @ Autrey Mill, Johns Creek, GA - Sat May/30/2015 HD

Bonaventure Quartet All Strings - Tchavolo Swing @ Autrey Mill, Johns Creek, GA - Sat May/30/2015 HD

The sound is perhaps a bit less warm than the DR-05 recording, but in isolation I would not complain.....
this is why I have not yet replaced the audio from my videos with the DR-05 recordings.

However, as a sort of "half step" toward that -
For songs I missed on video -
I put the audio recordings to slideshows of my photos and post them as YouTube "videos" -

Some more recent ones that I thought turned out pretty well -

Annie Sellick & Hot Club - Full Moon Saturday Night @ Steve's Live Music - Aug/27/2015 - SLIDESHOW HD

Laura Coyle - I Love Paris/Begin the Beguine @ Churchill Grounds, Atlanta - Aug/29/2015 - SLIDESHOW HD

Laura Coyle - Willow Weep for Me @ Churchill Grounds, Atlanta - Sat Aug/29/2015 - SLIDESHOW HD

Gunner · « **Reply #64 on:** September 13, 2015, 10:32:57 PM »

^^samples sound good!

I also have a DR-05. I taped a few shows using the internal mics. I had better results using it at an outdoor festival than indoors, but I'm still learning.
Next step would be buying some external mics. I've been reading the forums and I guess Church Audio are the way to go, right?