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Author Topic: Tascam DR-05  (Read 30204 times)

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Offline psychwolf

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Re: Tascam DR-05 - Low price and Rebate
« Reply #30 on: April 14, 2014, 10:38:46 PM »
As noted above by others, Church Audio CA-14 or what Chris Church now says are his best omnis, the CA-11 MK II, should blow away the internals on the Tascam. I've got the CA-14 omnis and a 9V battery box and they are superb. If the CA-11 are better...well, too bad this year's tax refund was already spoken for.

Psychwolf, your external mic choice, along with budget,  is between cardioids--directional mics--and omnis, omnidirectional mics. If you are generally in as good as spot as you were for the Tascam recordings, then omnis would suit you. Cardioids are for tuning out audience noise and room reverb, and you didn't seem to be suffering much from either one in your recording. The DR-05 mics are omnis. 

I've stated before that I'm not a big cardioids fan, though I have never used any higher-end cardioids. To me they have a cramped, "backless" sound while omnis are more immersive.

But if you are in a situation where you're far away from the sound source, and people are chatting away all around you, cardioids would be the way to go. Or you can get both in a set from Church Audio and bring along whatever would suit that particular concert.

Or if you want a starter pair of omnis for about $70, get these with the clips (and none of the other extras). Also get a 9V or 12V battery box to record through Line-in.
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-BMC-2

Hey, thanks for the input, I feel pretty good where I am then since I did buy a pair of omnis like that -- the type that go in your ear though -- I might just return to get omnis I can clip instead. I didn't think about a battery box to record through line-in -- so in other words, I'll need to power those omnis since there is no phantom power in the dr-5's mic /ext in line?

And I think I could live with the goal of going for those church omnis when I get the cash some day.. I feel like I have a solid plan now thanks to these forums. Now I just need to go to learn some sound forge leveling, and try out my first soundboard recording with the dr-40  8)

Offline UnknownVT

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Re: Tascam DR-05 - Low price and Rebate
« Reply #31 on: April 14, 2014, 10:44:09 PM »
I actually used soundforge to first raise the entire volume up by at least 300% so that was my first problem -- low levels. Then I cut the bass with the equalizer so I could bring out the guitar more and attempt to take the vocals out of the background, but still didn't really achieve the intent with the vocals. I found the bass guitar started to distort everything a little (but not the bass drum), so I removed that low but maybe I pulled the bass drum with it a bit.

If you are trying to show the recorder's ability - try posting a short section like 2-3 minutes of a significant part - with NO post processing other than volume (if that was your problem)
The use of ReplayGain is a good way to do it - it is like merely turning up the volume control - but with a check so as not to distort any of the peaks.

That way people can comments on the actual recorder's ability and not your post processing.

Cheers,

Offline earmonger

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Re: Tascam DR-05 - Low price and Rebate
« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2014, 04:02:24 AM »
Plug-in power, supplied from the mic jack, tends to be 2-3 volts at best. A battery box provides 9V or 12V. It helps prevent distortion from little mics.

Phantom power is an entirely different situation with 45V, usually from an external source, for high-end microphones that need it.

Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Tascam DR-05 - Low price and Rebate
« Reply #33 on: April 16, 2014, 11:12:49 AM »
OP:  two mic recording via the tascam internals or via a pair of headworn mics will recording the entire sound they hear.  To use an analogy, the egg has already been scrambled before it arrived at your mics.   Post processing is extremely limited in its ability to unscramble the egg.  Generally speaking, the goal is to get as good a recording as possible on the front end with limited post processing.  If you're having to crank something in your post processing, that suggests to me there was a problem somewhere in the recording itself.  Good recordings are often a matter of a few degrees this way or that way, not a 180 degree change of course settings, in my experience (others feel free to share their experience).   

If you recorded the entire band's instruments and vocals separately via a 32 channel multitrack recorder, your options to change the mix would be much better.

Since you can only record what's presented to your recorder, your goal is to position your recorder to record the sound present probably around -12db to leave some headroom and record as cleanly as the circumstances allow.

As far as powering external mics is concerned, you have to research the power requirements of the particular mics you want to use to see if they will run on the O5's internal plug in power (3v or less) or if they will run off a 9v battery box or if they require more power still (true phantom power). Mics that are fed less current than they require to operate either won't operate at all or will distort the recording. 

Besides the church audio mics, Jon Stoppable (Naiant audio) also sells a small set of external mics that don't get the same attention on TS that the CA mics get. 

It's like everything else, we all learn by asking questions and trying it for ourselves, asking more questions....

Offline UnknownVT

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Re: Tascam DR-05 - Low price and Rebate
« Reply #34 on: April 16, 2014, 11:47:27 AM »
OP:  two mic recording via the tascam internals or via a pair of headworn mics will recording the entire sound they hear.  To use an analogy, the egg has already been scrambled before it arrived at your mics.   Post processing is extremely limited in its ability to unscramble the egg.  Generally speaking, the goal is to get as good a recording as possible on the front end with limited post processing.  If you're having to crank something in your post processing, that suggests to me there was a problem somewhere in the recording itself.  Good recordings are often a matter of a few degrees this way or that way, not a 180 degree change of course settings, in my experience (others feel free to share their experience).   

If you recorded the entire band's instruments and vocals separately via a 32 channel multitrack recorder, your options to change the mix would be much better.

Since you can only record what's presented to your recorder, your goal is to position your recorder to record the sound present probably around -12db to leave some headroom and record as cleanly as the circumstances allow.

Valuable advice thanks.
One thing I have learned is that positioning often trumps equipment
(within reason and the adequacy of the equipment of course)

The Tascam DR-05 manual (and many of their other recorders) actually advise about the -12db level -
even to the point of marking it on the recorder's levels scale -
from page 49 of the Tascam DR-05 manual (pdf)


For my casual and unattended recordings I try to set levels at about -12db - but have Peak Reduction On which would lower the rec level if a there is a loud peak - the level then stays down at the new level
(and does not automatically gain back up - avoids pumping effect)
(for better explanation and the difference between that ALC and limiter, please see the last half of Reply #15 )

Minor point - OP = Opening Poster? If so I am the OP -
I think you are probably addressing psychwolf whose recording had post processing and people are commenting on.

Thanks,

Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Tascam DR-05 - Low price and Rebate
« Reply #35 on: April 16, 2014, 12:32:05 PM »
I believe you're correct now that you bring it up.  Seems like there was a discussion about Tascam's choice of level scale elsewhere on TS that suggested staying well below it.   :facepalm:


Offline UnknownVT

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Re: Tascam DR-05 - Low price and Rebate
« Reply #36 on: April 16, 2014, 01:50:59 PM »
Average level at -12dBFS is probably too high; depending on the style of music peak level can be 20dB higher, sometimes more.

I believe you're correct now that you bring it up.  Seems like there was a discussion about Tascam's choice of level scale elsewhere on TS that suggested staying well below it.   :facepalm:

Very cool! thanks for the hints.

I actually now set the recording level too high and allow the Peak Reduction (please see latter part of Reply #15 ) to lower the record level -
I then apply ReplayGain at the default 89db -
this seems to work well for me
(I always record at 24-bit and 48 kHz - I think 24-bits actually gives better dynamic range.)

Thanks guys.

Offline UnknownVT

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Re: Tascam DR-05 - Low price and Rebate
« Reply #37 on: April 16, 2014, 03:28:43 PM »
24 bit will yield better dynamic range if the box is capable of greater than 16 bit range in its analog circuit + ADC.  I have a box sitting on my bench that advertises 24 bit but the noise floor is at -84dBFS.  That's only 15 bit!

That's a very good point -

The Tascam DR-05 in question specs at least 92db S/N ratio -
Page 105 of manual -


is there any way that one can check the reality of those specs?

Offline UnknownVT

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Re: Tascam DR-05 - Low price and Rebate
« Reply #38 on: April 18, 2014, 03:16:39 PM »
Casual unattended live recording off the Tascam DR-05 from last night -
sounds pretty good to me - but I am taken by the performance -
which for me trumps just about everything else -
as long as it's of acceptable sound quality -
it does sound good to me, and more than just acceptable.



God Bless the Child Download (8.37MB)

Tascam DR-05 internal mics - 24bit 48kHz L-PCM original > 44.1k vbr3 + MP3Gain


Offline UnknownVT

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Re: Tascam DR-05 - Low price and Rebate
« Reply #39 on: April 18, 2014, 05:34:34 PM »
You know you're cool when you have your own profile on your reso head.  Also, you're too cool to let Kenny G on the stage  ;D  8)

Hahaha!

I'll let him know that! ;)

EDIT to ADD -
sent him your quote -
his reply -
Quote
Lol!

-hc3
http://thehc3.com

Offline UnknownVT

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Re: Tascam DR-05 - Low price and Rebate
« Reply #40 on: April 18, 2014, 07:31:10 PM »
To answer your technical question, 92dB is probably an honest spec...

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply and give details -
it is currently beyond my capabilities and probably intentions to do that -
but I am very grateful for the methodology

I have found this Wikipedia article on bit depth (dynamic range and quantization) very interesting.

Quote
24-bit digital audio has a theoretical maximum SNR of 144 dB, compared to 96 dB for 16-bit; however, as of 2007 digital audio converter technology is limited to a SNR of about 124 dB (21-bit)[12] because of real-world limitations in integrated circuit design. Still, this approximately matches the performance of the human auditory system.[13][14]

Thank you for the info.

Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Tascam DR-05 - Low price and Rebate
« Reply #41 on: April 18, 2014, 08:12:41 PM »
It is just not cool to drum all over the lead singer.

Offline UnknownVT

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Re: Tascam DR-05 - Low price and Rebate
« Reply #42 on: April 18, 2014, 10:31:16 PM »
It would be very rare to find 124dB dynamic range in a portable recorder--quieter analog components and ADCs use a lot more power.  You'll typically find more like 104dB.

Cool! thanks for the info again -
124db has to be real state of the art -
certainly unlikely to be found in cheapo battery portable recorders.

But it was just interesting that 124db is the limit so far achieved, about 21bit  -
whereas 24-bit is 144db.

Thanks again.

Offline UnknownVT

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Re: Tascam DR-05 in Use
« Reply #43 on: July 14, 2014, 12:11:32 AM »
I've started to put the Tascam DR-05 into usage rotation -
here are a few tracks from today -

photo shows where the recorder was placed. 

I had set the recording level to what I thought was a level that would allow the Peak Reduction feature to kick in and reduce it. 
As it was it was pretty low - where ReplayGain added almost +13db

La Vie en Rose.mp3 - Download (5.11MB)

01 Bei Dir War Es Immer So Schön (With You It Was So Very Beautiful).mp3 - Download (7.29MB)

11 So You.mp3 - Download (5.82MB)

Tascam DR-05 internal mics 24bit 48kHz L-PCM originals > 44.1k vbr3 +RG

Enjoy!

Offline UnknownVT

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Re: Tascam DR-05 in Use
« Reply #44 on: September 15, 2014, 02:06:38 PM »
I've started to put the Tascam DR-05 into usage rotation -
...
11 So You.mp3 - Download (5.82MB)

Tascam DR-05 internal mics 24bit 48kHz L-PCM originals > 44.1k vbr3 +RG



Same tune, same venue, same recorder placement, same band with a change in instrumentation -

107 So You.mp3 - Download (5.75MB)

another from same set -

104 Anouman.mp3 - Download (8.26MB)

set 2 -

206 I Love You.mp3 - Download (6.58MB)

Tascam DR-05 internal mics 24bit 48kHz L-PCM originals > 44.1k vbr3 +RG

enjoy!

 

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