Topic: Tascam DR-70D 4-channel audio recorder (Part 4)

[voltronic]

Presumably, the audio recording quality inside the 70d is better than my camcorder, but since there is a bit of drift over an hour or more recording, I'd rather just live with the audio in my camcorder than sync in post in most cases.

If you are absolutely sure you have synced up the beginning of your recordings and you're getting drift in that amount of time, that's a strong indication you have a sample rate mismatch.  You can't record your audio at 44.1 kHz and have it match up with the camera, which is going to be running at 48 kHz.  You need to set your audio recording to 48 kHz or 96 kHz.

I doubt that - sample rate drift between non clocked synced sources is a long existing problem when combining audio tracks in post. Even with two exact same devices set to the same rate - you will likely see some drift...that's the whole beauty of these new 4 channel recorders - its all the same clock...but the camera is a separate audio recorder/system.

I guess it all depends on how much "a bit of drift" is that 2manyrocks is experiencing.  I haven't run into anything significant with recordings under 2 hours, except for the handful of times I accidentally had my audio set to 44.1, and then it gets really bad.  You're right that timecode sync is the only real way to keep things exactly together.

[Life In Rewind]

The difference between 44 and 48 would be readily apparent - and not a matter of drift. It would sound like chipmunks.

Even if you mastered audio at 44 - you could still upsample to 48 and have the same issue.

[voltronic]

Not quite chipmunks, the difference is only a little more than a half-step.  Kind of like the two halves of "Strawberry Fields".

Right, and the couple times I did this by accident it was primarily a dialogue recording, not music, so I didn't recognize it right away.  Here's the most famous recent sample rate mishap:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mjx_GjyXCs4

For those that don't know, the song is in C.  The synth track is playing back a little above C#, just as Jon says.

[tomuo]

The gain should just stop being reduced when the knobs hit minimum. Isn't that the whole point of the 4 gain ranges!?

That feeling that the knob has stopped is a valuable physical index - we need that!

TASCAM please fix this!!!

Oh man, on the DR-60D we had someone say we were going to get sued because it worked that way. (full anti-clockwise = minimum gain, not off).
The thinking is that input might be from a wireless microphone receiver, and the person at the mic end might be off-camera or off-set. (bathroom break, private phone call),
and the DR-60D would still record some of that channel, creating a privacy problem because the recordist can't instantly turn off the input.

I believe the DR-70D works the same way as many high end field recorders in this area.

[audBall]

Possible firmware update with the option to turn that function on or off?

[voltronic]

That's why there should never be synths in a rock band 

I think Rush, Yes, ELP, King Crimson, Dream Theater, etc. would have some words with you...

I would say instead that if there are synths, you pony up the cash to pay an actual musician to play a real instrument live, rather than have a software sequencer playing it back from a computer where it may or may not be set to the correct sample rate!

What really gets me is how many people listen to that video and think it's that it's Eddie playing out of tune!

[voltronic]

The gain should just stop being reduced when the knobs hit minimum. Isn't that the whole point of the 4 gain ranges!?

That feeling that the knob has stopped is a valuable physical index - we need that!

TASCAM please fix this!!!

Oh man, on the DR-60D we had someone say we were going to get sued because it worked that way. (full anti-clockwise = minimum gain, not off).
The thinking is that input might be from a wireless microphone receiver, and the person at the mic end might be off-camera or off-set. (bathroom break, private phone call),
and the DR-60D would still record some of that channel, creating a privacy problem because the recordist can't instantly turn off the input.

I believe the DR-70D works the same way as many high end field recorders in this area.

I think your explanation makes sense.  In practice though, we're playing a guessing game as to where that on/off point is, because it's farther away from the physical stop point than one would expect.  Is this a limitation of the rotary encoder, or an issue with the DSP and software that reads the signals from that encoder?

For example: you're trying to reduce the level of a channel just a tiny bit, and the channel turns off instead.  And where it does happen is hard to pin down exactly both visually and physically.  It would be much better if full counter-clockwise = off, and then any minimum clockwise movement turns the channel on to its minimum gain.  That would accomplish the same thing you're describing above, yet would be much less confusing when operating the unit.

EDIT: Perhaps a better option would be to have the controls work exactly as on the 60D (full counter-clockwise = minimum gain), but then have the four channel select buttons on the right side become latching mute controls while recording.  Those buttons already have multiple functions depending on the function selected or screen the recorder is in.

[voltronic]

I think Rush, Yes, ELP, King Crimson, Dream Theater, etc. would have some words with you...

And they'd mostly be wrong, except for the bits that are Hammonds instead of synths 

What if you started by playing a grand piano while suspended high in the air and flipping end over end, and immediately afterward you play an analog synth?

[voltronic]

Tom, I edited my previous post with a better suggestion - just mentioning it here as we're now onto another page.

[voltronic]

Person at mic end of wireless transmitter has a mute switch.

The switch may not necessarily be accessible depending on costuming, etc.  Also, you may not want the person wearing it to have control over that.  I remember when I worked with student musical productions, our transmitter packs had an internal DIP switch that overrode the external power / mute switch.  I started using it because kids play with things, and sometimes would accidentally switch off their pack.

[ScoobieKW]

Person at mic end of wireless transmitter has a mute switch.

The switch may not necessarily be accessible depending on costuming, etc.  Also, you may not want the person wearing it to have control over that.  I remember when I worked with student musical productions, our transmitter packs had an internal DIP switch that overrode the external power / mute switch.  I started using it because kids play with things, and sometimes would accidentally switch off their pack.

Mute disable is the first thing I do on a wireless pack after resetting it. People forget.

[morst]

Person at mic end of wireless transmitter has a mute switch.

In corporate gigs that I do, it's common to lock the wireless mic transmitters ON, so that they can't be turned off by accident. And in some situations, the speaker will not want the hassle of controlling their own mute function, they would rather leave tech to the tech.

Personally, I prefer to give control to the person wearing the pack, but some techs do not prefer that at all, and some contracts probably even prohibit it!

I like the idea of optionally latched mute buttons.

ALSO someone mentioned that the slate tone is only 1 second long - it lasts for as long as you hold down the button, so if you need more time to get levels set, just stay on it!

[tomuo]

Person at mic end of wireless transmitter has a mute switch.

The switch may not necessarily be accessible depending on costuming, etc.  Also, you may not want the person wearing it to have control over that.  I remember when I worked with student musical productions, our transmitter packs had an internal DIP switch that overrode the external power / mute switch.  I started using it because kids play with things, and sometimes would accidentally switch off their pack.

ditto.  I had a handheld wireless mic with a 3 position switch ON/MUTE/OFF.    The MC of the event thought they were doing me a favor by turning the Mic Off after every announcement to save the battery, and wondering why I couldn't stop the PA from squealing every time they toggled it.
(Mic is Off)
start speaking - nothing through PA
I check level is up, do thumbs up
speaking again, nothing
MC remembers they toggled the switch, turns the mic over and flips it
<squeal>

Politicians and actors are usually told by the audio staff, don't touch the wireless kit, forget it's there.

[ScoobieKW]

This is what NDAs are for. Deliver media to client at end of show. Done.

If too sensitive to trust crew? Use internal crew, or as our clients choose don't record.

[voltronic]

As requested, here's a new thread for discussing mods:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=174046.0