Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Recorders that link to new digital boards  (Read 6997 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline acidjack

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (37)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 5845
  • Gender: Male
Recorders that link to new digital boards
« on: November 03, 2015, 03:46:29 PM »
Paging sound people, as knowledge of the boards themselves is not really my thing. For example, most of the clubs in NYC now employ digital SBDs, which for whatever they lack in sweet analog warmth or whatever, are much easier to use, with the ability to pre-set for an entire band, operate the SBD remotely, etc.

One thing that is more tricky with them is getting a patch. Some have assignable stereo outs, but I've encountered a few models, at one club in particular, that seems to only have firewire or possibly AES outs.

How exactly do new interfaces and recorders work with these boards? For example, let's say the SBD has 12 active channels. I plug in my recorder via FireWire or USB or AES. Does it digitally just pull in all the channels, or does the FOH still have to assign what goes through the digital outs? I'm a bit confused about how this works, and honestly, some FOHs don't seem to know either.

What recorders have people used that do this well??
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline Life In Rewind

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 883
    • www.rovingsign.com
Re: Recorders that link to new digital boards
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2015, 03:55:27 PM »
You almost have to get the model number and do the research. No catchall answer.

Like the ZED boards - most only record 2 channels through the Firewire out...except 1 model that does act like a multichannel interface...

The Behringer X32 should have L/R main out on the AES out by default...(but no guarantee - maybe someone changed it...)

Even worse - you can't really even count on using the analog outs - because they might not be routed right...or at all.

Unless there are some special recorders out there - I've think all the USB and Firewire setups assume you are using a computer to record.

And then you have to have the right drivers for the board installed on your computer...and make sure they connect.

Offline opsopcopolis

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2144
Re: Recorders that link to new digital boards
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2015, 04:01:28 PM »
^ that is right.  Each console is different.  Some consoles will default to sending out the main stereo mix to the digital outs, many will not.  As he also said, FireWire style outs will most likely need a computer with the correct software installed/configured.  Others might have something g like Dante with a bunch of analog outs, but they absolutely have to routed and it's pretty amazing how few engineers know how to route their own consoles.

Had an issue in February where I was basically offered a patch, but the engineer had no idea how to route his outs, and proceeded to tell me he had no open ones when I was look at two pair of rca and like six xlr

Offline acidjack

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (37)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 5845
  • Gender: Male
Re: Recorders that link to new digital boards
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2015, 05:05:58 PM »
^ all of that is what I was afraid of. I was looking at the Apogee Quartet, which gets you a laptop-capable interface that can also work with an iPad (and also seems pretty nice for "traditional" recording as well. Just trying to figure out what additional flexibility this would give me as compared to something like the Zoom F8 or Sonosax SX-R4+
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline 2manyrocks

  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1664
Re: Recorders that link to new digital boards
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2015, 05:15:55 PM »
You don't even need an interface or recorder with some digital mixers that output multitrack signal either via USB (Behringer XR) or firewire (Presonus).

Or you can rout signals to send a mix to aux outs or the headphone out to record into a regular recorder.





Offline H₂O

  • Trade Count: (28)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 5745
  • Gender: Male
Re: Recorders that link to new digital boards
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2015, 05:27:23 PM »
FWIW - The Tascam hs-p82 has 8 channels of AES in with Real Time Sample Rate conversion (as does the SD788t, SX-R4, SX-MINIR82, SX-R4+) - i.e. you don't care what Sample rate the board is running at just turn on the SRC it will lock to the signal (as long as it's in range) and then convert it to what ever you are recording at

So these decks may give you more options as well

I don't know if ADAT is going to help much as it's only 8 channels to my knowledge and I would think most boards are at least 16 in a club - so you would need 2+ ADAT's to get them all assuming the ADAT out's are routed too.

I don't know how many channels the SX-R4+ has SRC on but at least 2 AES inputs to support AES-42 Mode 2 - The original R4 and MiniR82 do not have SRC - corrected above


« Last Edit: November 03, 2015, 05:32:06 PM by H₂O »
Music can at the least least explain you and at the most expand you
LMA Recordings

List

Offline H₂O

  • Trade Count: (28)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 5745
  • Gender: Male
Re: Recorders that link to new digital boards
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2015, 05:34:02 PM »
http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/traveler-mk3/i-o.html

The MOTU has 2x ADAT inputs and can be DC powered
Music can at the least least explain you and at the most expand you
LMA Recordings

List

Offline opsopcopolis

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2144
Re: Recorders that link to new digital boards
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2015, 05:34:40 PM »
Totally forgot to mention that a great deal of consoles these days have easily routeable usb recorders that you can just plug right into

Offline Life In Rewind

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 883
    • www.rovingsign.com
Re: Recorders that link to new digital boards
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2015, 05:46:03 PM »
Totally forgot to mention that a great deal of consoles these days have easily routeable usb recorders that you can just plug right into

Plug a USB drive into - I think you mean.

But many of these USB recorders are limited 2 tracks.

I think you can get something like 16 on USB on the Behringer X32 - but easily...not sure about that!

Offline 2manyrocks

  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1664
Re: Recorders that link to new digital boards
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2015, 06:04:52 PM »
The smaller boards like the XR12 or Soundcraft UI16 output a two track signal directly to a usb stick.  The larger and newer boards output multitrack via USB or firewire to a computer running a DAW like Reaper, Protools,...

The days of needing a recorder to plug into the board are very numbered.  The XR32 broke down many of the barriers and then the XR18 at $699 just made racks full of live sound gear everywhere completely obsolete.  You just don't need to take a direct out feed into an interface and then into a computer to record multitrack any longer. 

 I would be very reluctant to spend money on anything to plug into a board for recording unless it was a specific recording project that had to be done with that particular equipment right now and was going to immediately pay back the equipment acquisition cost. 

Offline Life In Rewind

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 883
    • www.rovingsign.com
Re: Recorders that link to new digital boards
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2015, 06:17:53 PM »
The smaller boards like the XR12 or Soundcraft UI16 output a two track signal directly to a usb stick.  The larger and newer boards output multitrack via USB or firewire to a computer running a DAW like Reaper, Protools,...

The days of needing a recorder to plug into the board are very numbered.  The XR32 broke down many of the barriers and then the XR18 at $699 just made racks full of live sound gear everywhere completely obsolete.  You just don't need to take a direct out feed into an interface and then into a computer to record multitrack any longer. 

 I would be very reluctant to spend money on anything to plug into a board for recording unless it was a specific recording project that had to be done with that particular equipment right now and was going to immediately pay back the equipment acquisition cost.

Few of those scenarios lend themselves to "walk-up tapers" - you need drivers...you need a workable template for your DAW... and a soundman willing to let you connect to his board.

It's the availability of good old 2 track analog feeds who's days are numbered.

Offline opsopcopolis

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2144
Re: Recorders that link to new digital boards
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2015, 09:12:20 PM »
Totally forgot to mention that a great deal of consoles these days have easily routeable usb recorders that you can just plug right into

Plug a USB drive into - I think you mean.

But many of these USB recorders are limited 2 tracks.

I think you can get something like 16 on USB on the Behringer X32 - but easily...not sure about that!

Yeah, that's what I meant. Wasn't well said.  I wasn't sure if this was meant for multitrack or two track. When I hear sbd patch thrown around I usually assume we're talking a LR

Offline acidjack

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (37)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 5845
  • Gender: Male
Re: Recorders that link to new digital boards
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2015, 10:08:18 AM »
Totally forgot to mention that a great deal of consoles these days have easily routeable usb recorders that you can just plug right into

Plug a USB drive into - I think you mean.

But many of these USB recorders are limited 2 tracks.

I think you can get something like 16 on USB on the Behringer X32 - but easily...not sure about that!

Yeah, that's what I meant. Wasn't well said.  I wasn't sure if this was meant for multitrack or two track. When I hear sbd patch thrown around I usually assume we're talking a LR

I've got a bit of a different issue I guess -- guys are often willing to offer me whatever outs they have, it's often just more a matter of me not having recorders with digital inputs. The newer recorders like the F8 and the higher-up models all have that, so perhaps that's problem-solved to a degree. I also go to the same venues over and over again, so I'd potentially not need a huge amount of software. I think the venues by me mostly use the Behringer or that M-Audio thing.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline acidjack

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (37)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 5845
  • Gender: Male
Re: Recorders that link to new digital boards
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2015, 11:47:03 AM »
Specific board I'm concerned with here is an Avid SC48....
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline opsopcopolis

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2144
Re: Recorders that link to new digital boards
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2015, 12:02:28 PM »
You have quite a few options with that board.  The FireWire (being avid) is only usable with ProTools, but there are two track analog and aes outs (I think it said analog is TRS).  Also whatever extra XLR outs he might have, ehich should be a few unless he's running monitor mixes for like everybody or a bunch of outboard stuff.  16 outs is a lot
« Last Edit: November 04, 2015, 12:04:16 PM by opsopcopolis »

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.085 seconds with 43 queries.
© 2002-2024 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF