Topic: Roland R-05 (announced at Musikmesse)

[aaronji]

Roland announced a new recorder at Musikmesse:  http://blog.dv247.com/roland-r-05/10815/...

Also, http://www.rolandconnect.com/product.php?p=r-05.

[runonce]

.interesting
 

[su6oxone]

Looks cheap, more like the R-09 than the R-09HR, and sounds like it has an internal battery.  Interesting though...

[aaronji]

^^^ The Roland site has a picture showing a battery door marked "BATTERY: SIZE AA".

[spyder9]

Clutch!  I almost pulled the trigger on a HR a week ago.  The R05 is certainly replacing the HR. 

Quick observations:

1)  Moved Mic-In/Line-In connections up Top
2)  Hold button is on the Side, instead of the Back
3)  Input adjust buttons are now on the Face
4)  Improved battery door?
5)  Bigger screen?

More or less, a complete ergonomic redesign.  I like it. I bet it sounds exactly like the HR.



   

[udovdh]

Also: SD card slot at the top instead of bottom.

But what is really different aside from reshuffling the outside?
5V PIP?

[JD]

Interesting. I like the lay out better on this than the RO9hr. Looks to have almost 3 times the battery life. Also like that it now has a metalic exterior.

Not sure if I like that display bettery or not. I guess it would be more visble in the sun, but also a little more obvious when recording undercover.

My biggest concern, other than sound quality, is that they didn't go back to the magical break away jacks that the R09 had.

Found it listed for 200 euros, not sure what that is in dollars.  http://www.dv247.com/studio-equipment/roland-r-05-wave-mp3-recorder--72918

[spyder9]

From what I could find:  MSRP $299.00

That's a big price drop from the HR's MSRP of $399.00 from a couple of years ago.  Stiff competition between Roland, Tascam, Sony, Marantz, and Zoom is really working in our favor. 

I think Roland's marketing decision to roll out the R-05 under the "Roland" name was smart for the short term.  If it came out under the "Edirol" name, with the price drop, it would've killed the HR off immediately.   

[e.maynard]

And finally a thread adapter on the bottom.

[edtyre]

Volume up/down are on the face too. Better than on the side.
I have three recorders right now, one will have to go to buy this one 

[willndmb]

i wonder why the name - 05
it seems like going backwords by going from 09 to 05

[jbell]

^^^ Was thinking the samething!!   

[spyder9]

Marketing.  Look at it again.  It says "Roland", not "Edirol".   

[spyder9]

Nice short article and video from cnet.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20001106-1.html

[rastasean]

i wonder why the name - 05
it seems like going backwords by going from 09 to 05

other than the fact its not edirol, maybe they don't want people getting fooled by the sony m10.
For that matter, how the hell are model names picked?

[spyder9]

To me, it looks like they took the best of the R09 and the R09HR and created the the R05.  The top of the R05, specifically the mics & inputs,  looks eerily similar to the R09. 

That said, it also claims to have the same IARC technology and 24/96 recording ability of the HR.  Soooo......

[flintstone]

It's on the Roland USA web site too
http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=1077

Looks to me like the R-09HR will continue in the Roland catalog as the "pro" audio recorder, price $275, and the R-05 will be the tool for musicians, price about $200.  The internals of the R-05 have to be different than the R-09HR to make the battery last so much longer.

Flintstone

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I may holdout for the r-11!   Only improvements in sound quality when run as an a/d behind a good pre-amp will get me to upgrade.   None of those other features matter enough to bother.

I agree with the comment that the internals must be different to explain the longer battery life..  Unless it is a built-in lithium.  I sure hope it isn't a built-in battery.  The way they phrase the battery life seems to suggest it may be:

"over 16 hours of recording time per charge"

[bucsab12]

You can see in the video from cnet:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20001106-1.html

That it uses two AA batteries and not a built in one.

[spyder9]

I bet the 16 hours is based on mp3 recordings.    

As far as batteries, I have the Tascam DR-1 , which has a removable lithium.  After 2 years, the battery is still holding on.  I can still record a 3 1/2 hour show with no problems.  And I tape regularly.  A question for the R09 and HR folks:  how many rechargeables have you gone through in the last 2 years?   

I'm gonna give the R05 a shot.  I like the layout better than the HR.  Its a perfect competitor to the DR-2d.  Might grab one of each and do a comp.     

[Belexes]

I have three small decks. Might have to add this one to the family. 

[carpa]

From the Roland Website, taken from the specs of R-05 anf R09HR:

R 09HR Nominal Input Level
Variable
Mic input: -33 dBu (Default input level)
Line input: 2 dBu (Default input level)

R-05
Mic input: -33 dBu (MIC GAIN is H, Default input level)
Mic input: -15 dBu (MIC GAIN is L, Default input level)
Line input: -7 dBu (Default input level)

Being the mic input equal, it seems that the R-09hr can accept a hotter signal...

as for the impedance:

R09HR
Mic input: 30 k ohms
Line input: 15 k ohms

R-05
Mic input (MIC GAIN is H): 7k ohms
Mic input (MIC GAIN is L): 5k ohms
Line input: 8 k ohms

This I don't konw which difference it may bring.
c

[69mako]

I have three small decks. Might have to add this one to the family. 

You are a whore!!!  I wanna see it when you get it.  I like my R09HR too much right now for another upgade.

Mako

[rastasean]

I bet the 16 hours is based on mp3 recordings.    

As far as batteries, I have the Tascam DR-1 , which has a removable lithium.  After 2 years, the battery is still holding on.  I can still record a 3 1/2 hour show with no problems.  And I tape regularly.  A question for the R09 and HR folks:  how many rechargeables have you gone through in the last 2 years?   

I'm gonna give the R05 a shot.  I like the layout better than the HR.  Its a perfect competitor to the DR-2d.  Might grab one of each and do a comp.     

I imagine battery time is mp3 recording as well.

Well I have about 8 rechargeable batteries so its hard to track the exact same ones I use with the hr09 but I have not had to throw any of them away. I carry two extra rechargeables and two standard alakine in my bag just in case. One time the deck did power off but I only missed a small amount of time (5 minutes or so). When I go home and the batteries are low, I just throw on the charger before I go to bed and they are charged by late AM.

[spyder9]

For comparison purposes

Edirol R09
Mic input: -33 dBu (Default input level)
Line input: 0 dBu (Default input level)

Edirol R09HR
Mic input: -33 dBu (Default input level)
Line input: 2 dBu (Default input level)

Roland R-05
Mic input: -33 dBu (MIC GAIN is H, Default input level)
Mic input: -15 dBu (MIC GAIN is L, Default input level)
Line input: -7 dBu (Default input level)

Tascam DR-1
Mic input:  -64 dBV (GAIN set to HIGH)
Mic input: -48 dBV (GAIN set to LOW)
Line input: -10 dBV (Default input level)

Tascam DR-2d
Mic input:  -64 dBV (GAIN set to HIGH)
Mic input: -48 dBV (GAIN set to LOW)
Line input: -10 dBV (Default input level)



IMPEDANCE:

Edirol R09
Mic input: 20 k ohms
Line input: 17 k ohms

Edirol R09HR
Mic input: 30 k ohms
Line input: 15 k ohms

Roland R-05
Mic input (MIC GAIN is H): 7k ohms
Mic input (MIC GAIN is L): 5k ohms
Line input: 8 k ohms


Tascam DR-1
Mic Input: 30 kΩ
Line input: 23 kΩ

Tascam DR-2d
Mic Input: 25 k
Line input: 22 k

[ashevillain]

A question for the R09 and HR folks:  how many rechargeables have you gone through in the last 2 years?   

Are you asking if R09 users are discarding rechargeables? If they are that's pretty silly of them. I recently got a LaCrosse BC-9009 charger to refresh the same set of AA's that I've been using for about 4 years. They are now as good as new!

[Myco]

A question for the R09 and HR folks:  how many rechargeables have you gone through in the last 2 years?   

Are you asking if R09 users are discarding rechargeables? If they are that's pretty silly of them. I recently got a LaCrosse BC-9009 charger to refresh the same set of AA's that I've been using for about 4 years. They are now as good as new!

Same here with my Powerex AA's. A few of them appeared to only take a 3/4 charge recently, so I discharged them completely and ran them through the "Break in" mode on my charger and now they are as good as new again.

[spyder9]

Awesome.  Thanks guys.  Wasn't sure how long the AA rechargeables last.  So more than 2 years , with the same set, with a regular taping schedule, sound right? 

[Todd R]

Awesome.  Thanks guys.  Wasn't sure how long the AA rechargeables last.  So more than 2 years , with the same set, with a regular taping schedule, sound right?

NiMH batteries should retain more than 80% of their stated capacity for more than 500 charge/discharge cycles.  So unless you really need every last drop of your battery's capacity, you should easily be able to last 2 years.  Probably easily 5-6 years of use, unless you're Z-man.  

Even retaining 90% of the rated capacity should allow about 250 charge cycles, which would cover me for 5 years.

[Todd R]

Doing a bit of digging around, it seems that if you use fast charging technology instead of slow charge technology, cycle life might be more like 150 cycles, not 500.  I'm not sure if fast charge means 15 min - 1 hr charging or if it means 2-4 hour charging vs a slow charge of 8-12 hrs.

So depending on how you charge, 2 yr life might be about right.  What do I know, I change around my equipment far more often than every two years, so I've never been able to test whether batteries last longer than that.

[willndmb]

For comparison purposes

Edirol R09
Mic input: -33 dBu (Default input level)
Line input: 0 dBu (Default input level)

Edirol R09HR
Mic input: -33 dBu (Default input level)
Line input: 2 dBu (Default input level)

Roland R-05
Mic input: -33 dBu (MIC GAIN is H, Default input level)
Mic input: -15 dBu (MIC GAIN is L, Default input level)
Line input: -7 dBu (Default input level)

Tascam DR-1
Mic input:  -64 dBV (GAIN set to HIGH)
Mic input: -48 dBV (GAIN set to LOW)
Line input: -10 dBV (Default input level)

Tascam DR-2d
Mic input:  -64 dBV (GAIN set to HIGH)
Mic input: -48 dBV (GAIN set to LOW)
Line input: -10 dBV (Default input level)



IMPEDANCE:

Edirol R09
Mic input: 20 k ohms
Line input: 17 k ohms

Edirol R09HR
Mic input: 30 k ohms
Line input: 15 k ohms

Roland R-05
Mic input (MIC GAIN is H): 7k ohms
Mic input (MIC GAIN is L): 5k ohms
Line input: 8 k ohms


Tascam DR-1
Mic Input: 30 kΩ
Line input: 23 kΩ

Tascam DR-2d
Mic Input: 25 k
Line input: 22 k

whats best the numbers don't really mean anything to me

[sunjan]

It seems that the initial street price for R-05 is landing at around $249:
http://www.google.com/products?q=roland+r-05

The price point puzzles me a bit.
Apart from different ergonomics and not being able to take a hot line in signal, is there anything major that sets the R-05 apart from the R-09HR?
Since the R-09HR sells for $249-$269 these days, I reckon most serious tapers would still pay $20 extra to get that extra headroom for line in.
Unless there's any selling point that I have missed (like more quiet gain when going mic in, for stealth rig without external pre)?

[deadhoarse]

Quick observations:

1)  Moved Mic-In/Line-In connections up Top
2)  Hold button is on the Side, instead of the Back
3)  Input adjust buttons are now on the Face
4)  Improved battery door?
5)  Bigger screen?

More or less, a complete ergonomic redesign.  I like it. I bet it sounds exactly like the HR.

Very interested in this. The mic/line location, hold button, and input adjust locations were all odd decisions in my opinion on the R-09HR. The rubbery body as well...it made the R-09HR hard to slip in and out of tighter pockets.

[flintstone]

The initial advertised price means little, since the recorder won't be available for several more weeks.  And prices will be high for the first month or two after introduction.  Then the discounting will start.

The street price of the R-09HR today is 65% of its MSRP.  Starting from an MSRP of $299, the street price of the R-05 will fall to $195 or thereabouts by the end of Summer.

Flintstone

[guysonic]

At this point, suggest considering the new R-05 not as an upgrade to seemingly more capable R-09HR, but as another model choice likely suiting different recordist (musicians?) feature requirements. 

Because of the apparent difference in analog input, R-05 might not work (without overload/noise/lack of sufficient mic power) if substituted for R-09HR configurations. 

As mentioned before, would be interesting and informative for TS members to put this newest model through tests like I've done for the R-09HR shown in the tech review at: www.sonicstudios.com/r09hrrev.htm

I'm open for a ship paid loan of this deck for doing such tests whenever available in USA.

[yawnfactory]

overall sounds like a good unit.  the biggest concern is the mic in jack. ive had to send 1 of my r9's off 3x and the other 1 at least once. gotta have back up gear!

now all i will need are some great new sound pro mics/battery box to go with this unit.

[listener2]

I just ordered one of these R-05 recorders.  It seems to me aimed to compete with the Sony M10.  Looks like it is similar in build, size, battery life and screen and features for the most part.
The lower input impedance on the R-05 compared to the Edirol R-09 and R-09HR seems to indicate that there is a chance that this R-05 will have lower preamp self noise.  Usually the higher the input impedance it is, the more noisey an input stage can be...  but only time will tell when I get it in my hands to compare with my Sony M10 and D50 units.

As for the price difference being lower now than the R-09HR, I was wondering about that too.  But I see from the advertisements that this R-05 comes without an AC/DC power adapter and it does not have a wireless remote control feature that the R-09HR unit comes with.  That might explain the price diff?  Just guessing but seems logical. 
I sort of like the idea of having a wireless remote control capability, but it makes me wonder why they went with a wireless RF remote.... because wouldn't that RF oscillator and signals cause extra noise interference in the recording circuits being so dang enclosed in the small case?  Hmmmm, I wonder.  No one seems to have ever commented on this aspect so I don't know about it.

[Korso]

To me, it looks like they took the best of the R09 and the R09HR and created the the R05.  The top of the R05, specifically the mics & inputs,  looks eerily similar to the R09. 

That said, it also claims to have the same IARC technology and 24/96 recording ability of the HR.  Soooo......

They discarded the wireless remote. It lacks a remote period. :-/

[flintstone]

Looks like the going price for the R-05 is $250.  The R-09HR is available for $265 from reputable dealers.  Is the R-09HR worth the extra $15?  I think so.

In the future, retailers will start to offer a steeper discount for the R-05.  I expect it will cost less than $200 after a few months.  Right now, however, the R-09HR looks like a better value.

[jamroom]

With regard to some of the figures quoted, can anyone please advise of any differences I might notice in using the R05 with my CA11s and CA9100 pre, versus my old R09? I always go line-in and usually record loud rock in small venues. Due to my taping method, the R09 is set to unity and lock the buttons. I then adjust the volume on the pre to get the right levels. Any advice will be appreciated.

Edirol R09
Mic input: -33 dBu (Default input level)
Line input: 0 dBu (Default input level)

Roland R-05
Mic input: -33 dBu (MIC GAIN is H, Default input level)
Mic input: -15 dBu (MIC GAIN is L, Default input level)
Line input: -7 dBu (Default input level)

Edirol R09
Mic input: 20 k ohms
Line input: 17 k ohms

Roland R-05
Mic input (MIC GAIN is H): 7k ohms
Mic input (MIC GAIN is L): 5k ohms
Line input: 8 k ohms

[jamroom]

Bump.

Anyone?

[sunjan]

Looks like the going price for the R-05 is $250.  The R-09HR is available for $265 from reputable dealers.  Is the R-09HR worth the extra $15?  I think so.

Funny, the price gap is so much wider in EU. R-05 retails for €182, while R-09HR is still €272 (and M10 even steeper at €289).
New tapers in EU facing this choice would find it hard to justify paying €100 more for a similar feature set, and might opt for the R-05. Perhaps that will generate a few new users here at TS?

[deadwing]

Funny, the price gap is so much wider in EU. R-05 retails for €182, while R-09HR is still €272 (and M10 even steeper at €289).
New tapers in EU facing this choice would find it hard to justify paying €100 more for a similar feature set, and might opt for the R-05. Perhaps that will generate a few new users here at TS?

Yep, here's one!!!
I paid £160 for the R-05 a couple of weeks ago- which puts it into the same area as the H2 I was replacing. Loving it so far, especially the battery life.. and the 'power saver' mode that turn out the glowing red record button

My only complaint is that once you put the recording lock on it goes 'dark' so checking levels can be a ball ache requiring the unit to be unlocked. I'm paranoid about doing that as the lock is on the same switch as the power on/off - you push it one way to switch on or off, the other other way to lock it and I'm sure I'll just push the switch a little too hard and it will go pass the centre position and switch the power off. I've asked Roland if they could make it so that while you can't alter anything with the lock on, the display backlight at least comes on (It did on the H2 and I'm pretty sure it's the same on the Edirol??)

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I'm paranoid about doing that as the lock is on the same switch as the power on/off - you push it one way to switch on or off, the other other way to lock it and I'm sure I'll just push the switch a little too hard and it will go pass the centre position and switch the power off.

Sony did something similar with the m10... They probably saved less than a dollar by not putting it on a separate switch.  It is cost-cutting gone too far.

[flintstone]

The Avisoft web site now has preamp test results for the R-05.  The results show the self-noise of the R-05 to be somewhat quieter than the R-09HR when the record gain is close to maximum.  http://www.avisoft.com/recordertests.htm

[jbou]

Anyone know what brand SD cards work well with the R-05?

[tgakidis]

FYI, I tested the unit with a 5v USB > "B" tip cable for external powering and it works like a charm 

[YYzepp]

Anyone know what brand SD cards work well with the R-05?

I read a lot of folks with the R-09 having good luck with Transcends so I bought one from B&H. It's Transcend 16GB class-10 SDHC card TS16GSDHC10. One sale @ B&H till Dec 31 for $20 shipped(USA). I've been doing a few test pulls with it and so far, so good. No problems. 8hrs @ 24/88.2 is enough for me.

[bluntforcetrauma]

I just got the R-05 big question

Do the files split seamlessly?

I have the splitset at 2GB and does it split seamlessly?


please help