Topic: Tascam DR-70D 4-channel audio recorder (Part 5)

[greenmtnsrider]

I'm really hoping certain SD cards are the problem and this does prove to be a minor mishap in the grand scheme of things. I really liked the form factor, sound and performance of the deck with an external battery in my short time I used this deck and would jump back in quickly. Till then I'm running a Busman mod 680. Fingers crossed.

[morst]

at this point, I have closed my BBB complaint, seeing as I got the results I said I was seeking.

https://sanjose.app.bbb.org/complaint/view/443623/c/h68r4v

I am disappointed but not surprised that I have come under fire here for asserting my rights.

Now the only question, is will anyone have problems with anything from the new approved-card list?

So we wait. and wait. and wait. As soon as nobody ever has any more problems with approved cards, then we know the problem is solved! Tah-daaaah!

[groovon]

at this point, I have closed my BBB complaint, seeing as I got the results I said I was seeking.

https://sanjose.app.bbb.org/complaint/view/443623/c/h68r4v

I am disappointed but not surprised that I have come under fire here for asserting my rights.

Now the only question, is will anyone have problems with anything from the new approved-card list?

So we wait. and wait. and wait. As soon as nobody ever has any more problems with approved cards, then we know the problem is solved! Tah-daaaah!

You didn't come under fire for 'asserting your rights', but because of the hot-headed way in which you reacted and p'd off the only guy who might possibly have been able to help (i.e., all of us). When your non-approved card failed, why didn't you first try an approved one, before you started making accusations?

My 2 cents, take it or leave it
Dave

[stevetoney]

I'm also disappointed with this group Morst.  A page or two ago a comment was made that only 11 people have reported card problems.  ONLY 11 out of 25.

What's clear from reading this thread is that many people are OK with the response Tascam has made to this issue, but what those people cannot seem to understand is that others have not been OK with Tascam's response.  Frankly, to those that are satisfied, you have no right to decide for others whether or not they should be OK with Tascam or not.  (In my case, I have a three year history with them dating back to unresolved DR100MKii issues, so my dissatisfaction has precedent that's driving my responses.)

However, it seems that the most important thing to many now is to continue assigning blame that the Tascam customer service rep seems to have left.  Nevermind, that it's Tascam's job to respond to customer inquiries, no matter if they're edgy or not.  Nevermind that Tascam provides bad to nonexistent service from their formal site.  Since we can't get answers there, we needed to walk on egg shells with them here.  Why?  Because if we don't treat them with kid gloves, we might say something that doesn't sit well...even though they're customer service!  IMHO that's backwards thinking.

So, yeah the customer service rep isn't here because he wasn't treated with loving kindness, but why do people continue to provide cover for their awful service?  Isn't anyone besides me pissed off that Tascam cares so little about its customers that when they bail out on taperssection, we're left with NOTHING?  To be mad at people for challenging their responses and 'chasing them off' is just twisted thinking that's conditioned by the fact that they suck at customer service in the first place.  If they had REAL customer service, people wouldn't need to care as that much if they had someone here, though sure it would be nice to have a direct line to them.

What would customers say if Tascam shut down their customer service links on their webpage with a message that said 'we're outta here, people weren't being nice to us, so we've decided not to offer ANY customer service'?  Would you be pissed at customers for complaining on their website and blame them for Tascam taking away customer services?

[capnhook]

+T tonedeaf

[tomuo]

For the record, it was this comment from tonedeaf that accused me of lying and being some part of a cover-up, that made it clear I wasn't welcome here and that anything I wrote would be dissected and re-interpreted to your own preconceptions.    This really is my last post here.

I'm confused...and frankly somewhat bothered by your response.  On the one hand you're saying you don't know the answer about buffering.  I assume you must know something about these units or you wouldn't be responding.  So for this answer, you aren't tech saavy enough to give me a straight answer, or even suggest that you'll try to find out the answer, so you just say 'I don't know'.

[capnhook]

Big +T then, tonedeaf     


Hope tomuo can find some decent work somewhere, where his feelings won't get hurt.

[morst]

see? I wasn't the one who drove him off!!!

 

at this point, I have closed my BBB complaint, seeing as I got the results I said I was seeking.

https://sanjose.app.bbb.org/complaint/view/443623/c/h68r4v

I am disappointed but not surprised that I have come under fire here for asserting my rights.

Now the only question, is will anyone have problems with anything from the new approved-card list?

So we wait. and wait. and wait. As soon as nobody ever has any more problems with approved cards, then we know the problem is solved! Tah-daaaah!

You didn't come under fire for 'asserting your rights', but because of the hot-headed way in which you reacted and p'd off the only guy who might possibly have been able to help (i.e., all of us). When your non-approved card failed, why didn't you first try an approved one, before you started making accusations?

My 2 cents, take it or leave it
Dave

[Life In Rewind]

For the record, it was this comment from tonedeaf that accused me of lying and being some part of a cover-up, that made it clear I wasn't welcome here and that anything I wrote would be dissected and re-interpreted to your own preconceptions.    This really is my last post here.

I'm confused...and frankly somewhat bothered by your response.  On the one hand you're saying you don't know the answer about buffering.  I assume you must know something about these units or you wouldn't be responding.  So for this answer, you aren't tech saavy enough to give me a straight answer, or even suggest that you'll try to find out the answer, so you just say 'I don't know'.

Wow - I surely didn't see it as a personal accusation - more of an indictment and expression of dissatisfaction with TASCAM's response.

Tascam should have some concern for perception...even if they know its not reality or a misrepresentation.

Im surprised "the rep" wasn't better versed at internet diplomacy. Ignore the more acerbic posters - but perhaps express some concern. (which he finally did)

And you have to admit - TASCAM has some screw ups (misleading, out of date card infos) and stuff to explain - (like the late addition of "Erase Format")

[Life In Rewind]

see? I wasn't the one who drove him off!!!

 

at this point, I have closed my BBB complaint, seeing as I got the results I said I was seeking.

https://sanjose.app.bbb.org/complaint/view/443623/c/h68r4v

I am disappointed but not surprised that I have come under fire here for asserting my rights.

Now the only question, is will anyone have problems with anything from the new approved-card list?

So we wait. and wait. and wait. As soon as nobody ever has any more problems with approved cards, then we know the problem is solved! Tah-daaaah!

You didn't come under fire for 'asserting your rights', but because of the hot-headed way in which you reacted and p'd off the only guy who might possibly have been able to help (i.e., all of us). When your non-approved card failed, why didn't you first try an approved one, before you started making accusations?

My 2 cents, take it or leave it
Dave

I was sure it was you! 

I think you redeemed yourself by actually following through...

I thought toney was pretty fair - and take into account, he had already sold - and had to take back one unit - thus realizing a 0 re-sale value...that hurts!

[stevetoney]

For the record, it was this comment from tonedeaf that accused me of lying and being some part of a cover-up, that made it clear I wasn't welcome here and that anything I wrote would be dissected and re-interpreted to your own preconceptions.    This really is my last post here.

I'm confused...and frankly somewhat bothered by your response.  On the one hand you're saying you don't know the answer about buffering.  I assume you must know something about these units or you wouldn't be responding.  So for this answer, you aren't tech saavy enough to give me a straight answer, or even suggest that you'll try to find out the answer, so you just say 'I don't know'.

Not only did I not accuse of anything, especially of lying or covering up, but I was succinct in giving feedback about why I felt the response fell short.  I'm not trying to dissect or reinterpret, I'm trying to understand...that's why I said I'm confused.  I'm really sorry (really!) if saying I was bothered was overly direct, therefore a put-off

I'm in the customer service industry too.  'I don't know' is an acceptable answer to give a customer, but don't leave them hanging.  Anything less is, well considered poor customer service.  The fact is, there have been many unanswered questions in this thread that, if given some logically technical responses to, would have gone a long way to satisfying me, and I suspect also many of the others here that have had issues.

[voltronic]

For the record, it was this comment from tonedeaf that accused me of lying and being some part of a cover-up, that made it clear I wasn't welcome here and that anything I wrote would be dissected and re-interpreted to your own preconceptions.    This really is my last post here.

I'm confused...and frankly somewhat bothered by your response.  On the one hand you're saying you don't know the answer about buffering.  I assume you must know something about these units or you wouldn't be responding.  So for this answer, you aren't tech saavy enough to give me a straight answer, or even suggest that you'll try to find out the answer, so you just say 'I don't know'.

Not only did I not accuse of anything, especially of lying or covering up, but I was succinct in giving feedback about why I felt the response fell short.  I'm not trying to dissect or reinterpret, I'm trying to understand...that's why I said I'm confused.  I'm really sorry (really!) if saying I was bothered was overly direct, therefore a put-off

I'm in the customer service industry too.  'I don't know' is an acceptable answer to give a customer, but don't leave them hanging.  Anything less is, well considered poor customer service.  The fact is, there have been many unanswered questions in this thread that, if given some logically technical responses to, would have gone a long way to satisfying me, and I suspect also many of the others here that have had issues.

I don't think the quote from you that Tom recently posted was harsh at all, and if you take that by itself then I agree he was being way too sensitive.

That said, please go back and read what you wrote in these two posts:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=173960.msg2161418#msg2161418
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=173960.msg2161438#msg2161438

Tom still should have stuck around and defended himself and explained more thoroughly, but I definitely read what you said in those linked posts as accusatory - if not specifically of Tom, then of Tascam in general.  Now, were your accusations justified?  That's a debate we can have.  Personally, I think there was and is still no evidence to support your claims, and we could argue about this forever.  I think you and I have clearly established our respective positions on this here, and there's a better chance that the two of us are going to agree on who has the best hockey team in PA.

Also, you made reference to my "only 11 out of 25" figure from the SD card survey.  My point there was that 25 responses is statistically insignificant to start with.  Out of that, only 11 problem reports, all from people using cards not on the manufacturer recommended list is hardly enough evidence to establish this as a widespread issue.  This is out of the many thousands of units sold, and no problems of this type have been reported anywhere else that I'm aware of.  Should those 11 people have customer service work with them to help resolve their issues?  Absolutely, but if that response is "use an approved card", then that shouldn't be viewed as an unsatisfactory response.

[Life In Rewind]

Voltronic - the FAQ is still pointing to an out of date recommended media list...

tascam.com/content/downloads/products/867/dr-70d_tested_media_list_20151006.pdf

I dont like the disclaimers too much - so - what is "QUICK FORMAT" for?

They almost make it sound like SD is write once media...

[voltronic]

Voltronic - the FAQ is still pointing to an out of date recommended media list...

Thanks for catching that - it's now fixed.

I dont like the disclaimers too much - so - what is "QUICK FORMAT" for?

I posted links that explain Quick Format vs. Full / Erase Format here:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=174900.msg2162023#msg2162023

And you said earlier that adding "Erase Format" was a late addition, as though it was something missing from the get go.  Read the linked articles - once you understand what this is, you'll see that it's actually pretty unusual for recorders like this to include such a feature. * I really was quite excited to see this added in the latest firmware, since you typically can only do a full format on SD cards on your PC using the SD Formatter or a similar utility.  My M10 certainly doesn't do this - it's only a "quick" format (though not labeled as such), and I'm not aware of any non-professional recorder that will do an actual full format.*

BTW, if you're ever wondering which kind of formatting your recorder is doing (since it's not usually labeled), all you need to do is take note of how long it's taking.  Unless it's taking several minutes or more, it's probably a "quick" format (or maybe .  A full / erase format takes a long time.  This is true even for new high-speed cards.  Read the articles in my linked post and you'll understand why.

They almost make it sound like SD is write once media...

If you're referring to the statement Tascam posted on the new SD card list:

*1
 The performace of the media may be degraded significantly if used repeatedly.
Once the card is full (data transferred if necessary), ERASE-FORMAT using the DR-70D is recommended prior to using the card again.

I think that statement is true for ANY flash media, as a Quick format will not identify bad sectors and filesystem errors that develop so you will definitely have degraded performance at some point.  A full format will address these things.  Maybe during testing they found that those two cards perform very well, but only if a full format is performed every once in a while.  EDIT to add: If that was the case and those two cards do develop degraded performance sooner than the others, then I wonder why they would be on the recommended list.

*EDIT: I was totally wrong about the statements struck through above.  Most other Tascam recorders have included Full Format ability, so in that case I now think they should have included it with the 70D from the beginning!

[voltronic]

Just took a look at the survey results again.  We're still just at 26 responses, with one new error report.  One of the previous 11 error reports can be thrown out though, as I looked at the response and it says "switching from usb to internal batteries" - in other words, nothing to do with the SD card.  That happened to me once when I was on USB power, but not recording and walked away.  The recorder shut down due to inactivity, and right before the concert began I quickly powered it back on and hit record.  What I didn't do was hit the "wake" button on my external battery so that the 70D would detect it and prompt me to select "bus power".  The internal AA's died after an hour and a half. 

If that problem the user reported happened while recording though, I'd suspect a bad / loose USB cable or maybe problem with the battery itself.