Topic: Schoeps matched pair of caps vs non?

[Cobiwan]

I am wondering if it is TRULY better to have a matched pair of capsules versus a non matching pair of capsules. I'm sure matched pair is better in the sense they have same response; but can you truly tell a difference if a non matched pair is used sonically than a matched pair? The response rate should be pretty close and may be not audible. I just don't know; any help?

[aaronji]

Depends on how far apart the capsules are, but it can definitely be audible.

A company like Schoeps has tight manufacturing tolerances, though, so I would guess that two capsules manufactured at around the same time would be pretty close... 

[microburst]

The matching will cost you around 50 bucks for a new set which isn't a lot of coin, but Is it worth it?  As someone who has owned matched pairs (in the past) and non-matched (all my pairs now) I'd say no it's a waste of money.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I believe Mr. Satz might tell us that older caps should probably be sent to the factory for a checkup, cleaning, and matching. Of course it depends on what you record.  If you record PA's in lousy venues, maybe it does not matter. If you record purely acoustic material and are concerned about capturing an accurate 3d sound stage, or piano tonality, then it may be more essential. Schoeps charges some of the most reasonable rates for such service. But they do need to go to Germany.

Keep in mind "matching" is not merely average db levels. That could be easily corrected in post.  Matching is across the entire frequency spectrum.  So you may have two caps that on average seem matched, but which respond very differently at high frequencies.

[fotoralf.be]

I've bought a matched pair of Rode NT5, four years ago. In those days, the price of a matched pair was higher than that of two individual microphones. On one of the first outings, one of the capsules failed and they simply replaced it, claiming that their tolerances were so small that matching wasn't needed. Hence the higher price...

Recently the second capsule has failed, they've replaced that as well and I now not only have a "matched pair" that's definitely no longer matched but where the two capsules even look distinctly different (different front grille and one of the capsules has an embossed cardiod symbol while the other one doesn't).

I'm sure Schoeps will do better than that.

Ralf

[stevetoney]

To 11's point above which DSatz has commented on numerous times, factory specs and thus factory matching can only be ensured for some random period of time after Schoeps validation anyway, so I don't think a used set of capsules that have matching certs, assuming the certs have not been validated recently is worth much more the paper the certs are printed on.  Otherwise, some people feel it's nice to have a pair of caps with very close or sequential S/Ns so you might be willing to pay something extra for that.

But what does matching do for you when the caps are fresh from the factory?  My contention is that, unless you're a studio, I'm not even willing to pay an extra $50 for matching if I'm using them for live music recording.  Why?

a) WRT senstivity -- If I buy two capsules and they're either new or supposedly nearly new and they come to me very far off in senstivity, I'm sending one or both back and requesting a replacement, since one or the other is likely out of spec.  In other words, the certs don't do anything positive or negative for me WRT warranting sensitivity matching...they're either close or they aren't, and if they aren't I'm rejecting the purchase regardless of what the certs say.

b) WRT Frequency Response -- If the two capsules don't track each other all that well, the effect is a shifting of the instruments of different frequencies in the stereo sound stage from what you'd hear on a matched pair.  Do I really care about that in a live recording?  Some people might, but I don't, especially since there's likely already a shifting of the instuments in the soundstage anyway from reality even on a perfectly matched pair.

Course, none of the above considers a bottom line reason why you might want to spend $50 for matching certs, which is simply to enhance resale if you ever decide to sell since some people insist on buying matched pairs, though IMHO having certs is nice but doesn't increase the value of a pair of used capsules. 

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are concerned about capturing an accurate 3d sound stage, or piano tonality, then it may be more essential.

Lots of good info posted so far, and I think this is the best reason to get matching (although whether or not to get it at all is debatable). If that's not something that you value or as tonedeaf points out, just not applicable with recording in a room, then don't worry about it.

[aaronji]

Wouldn't the imaging issue be most pronounced with coincident mics and become less apparent as the spacing increases?

[Gutbucket]

Wouldn't the imaging issue be most pronounced with coincident mics and become less apparent as the spacing increases?

It will affect both recording methods. 

I'm not sure it's worth making such a distinction in terms of practical usage, since level and frequency differences matter with A-B spaced omnis configurations as well, which is the opposite extreme from coincident techniques which produce no phase difference information and rely entirely on level/frequency differences. 

However, because spaced configs take advantage of time differences between channels in addition to level/frequency differences, that may make spaced configs slightly more robust in dealing with minor differences in response between microphones.  I think that’s probably more of a technical thing than a real-world thing though.

[aaronji]

However, because spaced configs take advantage of time differences between channels in addition to level/frequency differences, that may make spaced configs slightly more robust in dealing with minor differences in response between microphones.  I think that’s probably more of a technical thing than a real-world thing though.

That's what I was thinking.  I had no idea about magnitude of effect, though.

[Gutbucket]

If they're off enough to negatively effect a coincident stereo recording, I suspect they'd not be much better for spaced stereo recording.

As eleven mentioned, I think a good frequency-response match is most critical aspect by far.  Most preamps have un-linked individual channel gain controls and the resulting gain match on the recording is only as close as we adjust the pots.  I always end up balancing levels by ear later anyway, regardless if I'm using my matched pairs or not.  If I'm lucky they don't need any adjustment.  If they do, they do.  Done.   More rarely, I've eq'd each side differently to better match each other and and improve the resulting tonality and imaging.  It can work wonders when necessary if done carefully, but is much more of a PITA than simply adjusting level balance.  I'd certainly not want to have to do that as a regular thing.

Keep in mind "matching" is not merely average db levels. That could be easily corrected in post.  Matching is across the entire frequency spectrum.  So you may have two caps that on average seem matched, but which respond very differently at high frequencies.

[H₂O]

I have a pair of m934F's that where made in the early 1970's or late 1960's and are spot on - they are within 10 serial numbers
I have a pair of m934c's that from the early 1970's that are spot on - they are 2 serial numbers apart and one was sent back to Schoeps for cleaning - both before and after I couldn't tell any difference - at one point I had another m934c about 600 serial numbers higher and it sounded the same
I have a pair of mk241c's that are from the early 1970's that are spot on - they are 4 serial numbers apart
I have a pair of mk5's from the early 90's that are 8000 serial numbers apart and are also spot on


Maybe I have been lucky


If I where buying NEW caps I would consider this but with older caps (over 20 years old) and especially vintage caps where matching is not an option I wouldn't

[Cobiwan]

Thanks for the input everyone. There is a lot of great info in here. I agree that when spending close to $2K on a pair of caps, $50 more isn't really a big deal. After reading the responses it seems that while matched pairs are ideal for studio work, in the field live concert recording would not require matched pairs. Matched pair certificates are somewhat time sensitive and really only come into play for resale benefit. Have I gathered this correctly?
Secondly how do you gauge frequency response other than sending them in for a checkup? What equipment is needed to check their matched certification?

[achalsey]

Matching pairs for studios I think is less important as they don't use specific stereo patterns nearly as often.  Usually just mono, spot mic kind of stuff.

For coincident stereo recording you want mics that will sound as close to each other as possible.  Having two mics with different frequency responses will sound odd.  It'd be like listening to a recording with a mismatched set of headphones or speakers.  But like others have mentioned, this may be barely noticeable, if at all, depending on the type of music being recorded, and how different the frequency responses are.

As others have pointed out (and with much more knowledge than I have): from the high end manufactures with very strict specifications, the 'factory matched' process and certificate is somewhat redundant as all their mics are going to be basically matched already anyway.  Now how much their frequency responses will change over the years is a different story....

[Scooter123]

I have matched mk4s and mk41s.  I got them matched because it was cool, and I got this really nifty certificate in German that I can't read with a Schoeps logo on it and some dude's signature I think.  Anyway, its way cool.  I've never compared them to unmatched caps, so I couldn't tell you.  I think you'll get more for the set if you resell them when they are matched, due mainly to the really cool German certificate