Topic: Schoeps order from Sweetwater

[SClassical]

I ordered a matched pair of Schoeps Capsules from Sweetwater on Aug 27th..They charged my credit card on the day - Aug 27th. Now it's Sept 29th...Is it normal for a store to charge the customers first and ask them to wait for a few months for the order? I thought usually online stores charge customer's credit card when they are about to send the goods. They told me I still have to wait for a few more weeks because I requested my caps to be matched. So it seems as if I need to wait for about 2 months. Shall I ask for a refund and ask them to charge me when they send my order or shall I just let them hold my money while I wait? I understand if I have problems I cannot do a credit card claim if it is 2 or 3 months later? So if I wait for 3 or 4 months and they don't send or my order was DOA I'm not protected by my credit card company?

Is it normal to wait over a month for a match pair and is it normal for me to allow them to hold on to my money not knowing how long I need to wait for my order? I feel I should ask for my money back and allow them to charge me when they are about to send my order.

[John Willett]

My understanding is that this is illegal - your card should only be charged when goods are despatched.

If it was a special order, they may want to take a non-returnable deposit.  But this should all have been agreed in advance.

And didn't Schoeps prices go down recently?

[mattmiller]

I've never ordered from Sweetwater, but at B&H anything they sell that is "special order" has a warning near the price saying, basically, that your credit card will be charged upon order and you'll get the product whenever they receive it and ship it to you.  Sounds like the same policy that Sweetwater is utilizing.

[Neilyboy]

Not sure on whats legal and whats not but I have to say I have ordered from sweetwater a few times in the past and they have always followed through very well on every order I placed. Even when it was just a set of mic-clips. They called my cellphone within an hour of my order being placed. They just asked if they could answer any questions about what I had purchased and that it was dispatched to their shipping department. They then shipped all of my orders free, each one was delivered within two days of order date (I do realize they have a shipping center just a state away from me).

Anyway, not going too far off topic but just wanted to let you know that they have always been my first choice in music gear only because of the support I have received from them in the past. I would be very comfortable with them helping me out if something were to go wrong with my order unlike some of the other east coast shops that I have purchased from which all gave me the run around, wrong tracking numbers, shipping dates that fell through and terrible phone support (ProAudioStar).

So worst case scenario if you do have issues with the product when it arrives I would think sweetwater would help you out no questions asked. The guy I always deal with at sweetwater is 'Dave Brow'. Super nice guy even wrote me an email after a purchase asking about my gear. Told me about the bands he has been in and such. So even though it seems a bit stressful now I think you will find sweetwater is good people!

Neil

[su6oxone]

Is it normal to wait over a month for a match pair and is it normal for me to allow them to hold on to my money not knowing how long I need to wait for my order? I feel I should ask for my money back and allow them to charge me when they are about to send my order.

I recently ordered a new pair of Schoeps mics as well (not from Sweetwater though) and I think the reason for the delay, at least, is that Schoeps as a company evidently takes a month off in August and so orders placed afterwards have been backordered for some time.  I'm at about 3 and 1/2 weeks since my order was placed, and still waiting.  If you placed your order by phone you might have had the option of paying only a deposit but if you bought online then they probably charged you because they are ordering from Schoeps and it gets drop shipped to you directly from the distributor for the US (Redding Audio).  I would recommend calling Sweetwater and asking them for an update, and if it looks like it'll take much longer, for a refund or partial refund.  I don't know if they will let you not leave any sort of deposit, probably not, but you could ask.

[acidjack]

I don't think what they're doing is non-standard.  When I bought my Beyers from them I believe I was charged upfront. Reason is they don't stock the mics, so they have to take your money and "buy" them from Schoeps and then have Schoeps get them to you. 

And of course, being European, I'd expect Schoeps to be basically non-functional for August.

[SClassical]

Thanks..I just thought that shops usually only charge the credit card when they ship the item. I know some stores take credit card numbers and info on-hold and then charge it on the day they dispatch it to customers. I think I ordered stuff as a pre-order/release before and they all take card info and charge on the day of dispatch. I won't be able to do a credit card claim if it takes a few months if something goes wrong. I was charged when I placed the order on Aug 27th. I contacted them and they say it will take a few more weeks like another month, which sounds a long time to wait. The last time I ordered my match capsules from Sonic Sense it only took a few weeks. Maybe Schoeps don't have capsules ready paired up in their factory. And it's made to order every time.

su6oxone, when you placed the order did they asked you for a deposit or they wanted the full amount from you? Where did you place your order?

[datbrad]

Having dealt with Sweetwater, my speculation is that your request of a factory matched set required a special order since for most of the units they sell, that is not a typical customer requirement. Had you ordered a pair of non-matched mics, you likely would have been using them for the last 3 weeks.

[su6oxone]

su6oxone, when you placed the order did they asked you for a deposit or they wanted the full amount from you? Where did you place your order?

I ordered from Sonic Sense, and they gave me the option of paying just a deposit but I just had them charge the full amount so I wouldn't have to deal with it later.  I asked for an update today so hopefully I will hear back soon (I was told 6-8 weeks as an estimate originally).  Sucks having to wait for so long but it's up to Schoeps at this point really...

[it-goes-to-eleven]

No way...   If they go out of business, or otherwise don't deliver, you could lose your money.  You shouldn't have to float that for them.  They should have also been very clear regarding how long it would take to get the product.

I'd order my schoeps from Posthorn.  Jerry is the only dealer I know of who actually stocks some critical schoeps repair parts.  And he can do simple repairs like change active cable lengths and repair torn out cables.  That's something I want to support.

[edtyre]

I'd order my schoeps from Posthorn. 

I'll second that. The last time i ordered from Jerry, he actually didn't bill my credit card until after
i had received my package. Highly recommended.

[12milluz]

I bet they are either dropped shipped or special order. Companies always do that- they charge a credit card when ordered because they don't normally stock them. Sweetwater is the best of the best. I visited their store/warehouse when I was in the region Incredible! Give 'em a call if you're wondering where the mics are, they will be very helpful I'm sure.

[69mako]

I recently ordered an amp from Sweetwater and had nothing but good experiences.  It was on backorder when I bought it and they didn't charge my credit card until after they shipped it.  I only have to wait a couple weeks for it.

Good luck!
Mako

[ellaguru]

No way...   If they go out of business, or otherwise don't deliver, you could lose your money.  You shouldn't have to float that for them.  They should have also been very clear regarding how long it would take to get the product.

I'd order my schoeps from Posthorn.  Jerry is the only dealer I know of who actually stocks some critical schoeps repair parts.  And he can do simple repairs like change active cable lengths and repair torn out cables.  That's something I want to support.

..that is if jerry can find the parts in that messy office of his 

[su6oxone]

I was charged when I placed the order on Aug 27th. I contacted them and they say it will take a few more weeks like another month, which sounds a long time to wait. The last time I ordered my match capsules from Sonic Sense it only took a few weeks. Maybe Schoeps don't have capsules ready paired up in their factory. And it's made to order every time.

su6oxone, when you placed the order did they asked you for a deposit or they wanted the full amount from you? Where did you place your order?

Just an update for anyone interested but the mics I ordered on Sept 7 and finally being delivered today, just under five weeks -- which is a long wait but still under the 6-8 weeks estimate given to me by Sonic Sense.  I would presume ordering mics outside of the Aug-Sept vacation/post-vacation period would be faster than this. 

And to the OP, did you ever get your caps or resolve the situation?

[SClassical]

Still no word from Sweetwater on my part...I ordered my caps before you. Maybe Sweetwater didn't place my order straight away.

[su6oxone]

Still no word from Sweetwater on my part...I ordered my caps before you. Maybe Sweetwater didn't place my order straight away.

That's a pretty long time.  I would ask Sweetwater for an update, or if they're slow on that, ask Redding Audio directly.  They will oblige you if you ask/insist (I did, several times).  The main thing they can tell you is if/when they shipped from Germany, they won't be able to give you a better estimate on wait time from my experience. 

I would guess you'll get them pretty soon, hope you do. 

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Did they ever explain why they charged your CC, and did they refund the charges pending delivery?

Anything less would be disingenuous.

[SClassical]

They just wanted to charge my order up front. They also wanted to charge me shipping which I had to haggle my way to persuade them not to cuz most retailers in US don't charge shipping for Schoeps order. I was about to cancel my order when the seller agree to change his mind and give me free shipping. I went to their website and saw most items were listed with free shipping so I was a bit annoyed that they tried to add shipping to my order with phone orders. If you do a special Schoeps order from them on the phone you might experience the same thing ... maybe it's my sales person or maybe is their policy to charge shipping when you order a matched Schoeps capsule. They should contact me every month since I have been waiting since August but they seem to have forgotten about me. So I might call them end of the month to remind them I'm still alive and waiting. It's reaching a point if something happens (they go bankrupt) I cannot place a credit card claim because there's a time frame to place a claim. So from my experience with them now they seem to think about themselves more than the customers. Maybe they will call me and check if my order is okay after wards but I don't really want telemarketers to call me cuz if I do have problems with the caps obviously I'll contact them. So the whole experience before and after sales is going to be annoying.

[stevetoney]

Why are you waiting on Sweetwater?  It's your money that's at stake and you're the one who obviously is not satisfied with what's happening.  Until you call them and let them know, how can they know that you're not satisfied with their service, although I agree that it would be somewhat annoying to have to haggle over shipping fee's when their site says free shipping.  Why don't you give them a call and make them give you a status update instead of wondering about the status?

Regarding the concern about the credit card billing, you might request them to cancel the initial billing and re-initiate a second one with the current date to recover the month or two of idle time.  Since you haven't received the goods, it seems like they should be willing to do that.

It's also fair to tell them directly that you're in communication with tapersection members who have placed orders with their competitors since you placed your order and they've received their orders already...find out if they have a response.  If they don't give you satisfaction, I'd consider canceling your order.

That said, I ordered my MK22 caps from Sweetwater last month (unmatched) and I had great service and a great experience with them...I called regularly and they were very responsive.  However, I was the one picking up the phone and making the first call when I had a question/concern about my order.  While I understand your frustration over the amount of time it's taking, given that they're a large gear retailer, it might be a little unrealistic to expect them to initiate a call to you about status update on a backorder...which might be a good reason to deal with someone like Posthorn or Sonic Sense in the future.

[hi and lo]

I think tonedeaf is right on the money here. The onus is on you as the customer to ensure your expectations are met. Sweetwater is not going to rip you off in any sense but if they can't meet deliverable in a timely fashion or your credit card protection is in jeopardy, you must take action and not rely on them.

Good luck! I totally understand your concerns and hope everyone is happy once the mics are in your hands and pulling great tapes 

[it-goes-to-eleven]

You never know when any vendor will close their doors.   It doesn't have to be a situation where months are involved like this - it could just be a few days.

But charging customers up front is a warning sign.. I would have cancelled long ago, but it is your decision.

[stevetoney]

Company Overview

Sweetwater Sound Inc. operates as an online music instrument and pro audio retailing company. It offers high-technology equipment, including microphones, digital recording systems, electric guitars, electronic keyboards, electronic drums, studio and recording, computer audio, bass, soundware, remix and DJ, and accessories for musicians, recording studios, and broadcasters. The company also provides print and electronic publications, as well as gift certificates, and payment cards and leasing programs. In addition, it enables to buy and sell used music and audio gear person to person. The company was founded in 1979 and is based in Fort Wayne, Indiana.

Sweetwater Sound Inc. announced sales results for the year of 2008. The company reported record annual sales of $140 million, an 8% gain over the $130 million reported for 2007. The increase follows four consecutive years with sales growth of 20% or more.

[SClassical]

On Monday I think i will ask them to refund my initial payment and charge my card again if they really want to so I have a new payment date. Hopefully that shouldn't be a problem for them but a benefit for the customer to be covered. Most companies have a re-stocking fee so there is no big loss. And as long as they hold on to my credit card info they shouldn't need to worry to charge it on the day of delivery or charge me a re-stocking fee. What really bothers me is they tried to get more money off me by charging me outrageous shipping fee up front for those little capsules via phone order when the whole website states free shipping even for massive items.

[jbell]

This isn't entirely related, but I contacted sweetwater yesterday about purchasing a new mic from them and they offered no price discount or price matching on prices that Full compass offered.  I was alittle dissappointed since FullCompass gave me almost a 25% discount on the mic.  If I had money tied up in Schoeps gear with them I would call and find out what's up. 

[rastasean]

You never know when any vendor will close their doors.   It doesn't have to be a situation where months are involved like this - it could just be a few days.

But charging customers up front is a warning sign.. I would have cancelled long ago, but it is your decision.

I don't think it is too uncommon of a practice. take a look at this $55 windscreen on b&h: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/387054-REG/Schoeps_B_5_D_B_5D_Hollow_Foam_Windscreen.html

This is a special order item and is non-cancelable and non-returnable. Est. arrival at B&H is 7-14 business days (subject to availability). You will be charged upon placing your order.


When you order things from b&h, you are charged before the item ships--even if it is in stock and even if your order won't ship for a few days because they are closed.

Does this mean b&h is going out of business?

[SClassical]

I think B&H situation is different cuz they deliver 7-14 days which is reasonable while holding your money. Also during that time u r protected by ur credit card company. If they send u a DOA item u can put in a credit card claim on the 14th day.

[stevetoney]

I think B&H situation is different cuz they deliver 7-14 days which is reasonable while holding your money. Also during that time u r protected by ur credit card company. If they send u a DOA item u can put in a credit card claim on the 14th day.

I don't mean to seem argumentative, but really it's not different because B&H can't guarantee a special order from Germany will arrive in 7 - 14 days, thus their 'subject to availability' caveat. 

I'm pretty sure that any Schoeps special order from any US distributor (whether Sweetwater, B&H, Posthorn, Full Compass, or anyone else in the US) comes to them via Redding Audio.  I've placed a Schoeps special order from both B&H and Posthorn, and in both cases the item gets delivered directly to me from Redding, although sometimes the retailer has the item in stock so they send it direct.  If Redding doesn't have it on their shelves, it has to come from Germany and the lead time can be a number of weeks. 

I think that the point Rasta is making is valid.  The concept that requesting advance payment is probably not so much of 'a warning sign' as it's a business practice that many retailers use for special order items.  Granted, if you don't like the practice, it seems that there are some retailers that don't require the advance payment, so you may prefer to order from them instead. 

I'm not a retailer, but I'd assume the practice is tied to the fact that retailers don't want to get stuck with excess inventory that might sit on the shelves....something to do with accounting practices and paying taxes on your inventories.  I'd also guess that another factor behind this goes to the fact that people can be very fickle (especially with high dollar items).  Without requesting some form of advance payment, lots of people will cancel and leave the retailer stuck holding the bag.  This probably happens far less when advance payment is required.

[su6oxone]

I'm pretty sure that any Schoeps special order from any US distributor (whether Sweetwater, B&H, Posthorn, Full Compass, or anyone else in the US) comes to them via Redding Audio.

That's correct AFAIK, Redding is the US Schoeps distributor and the others that you mentioned are Schoeps dealers.  Except for the higher volume products (cmc6, mk4, etc.) at larger dealers, many Schoeps items will be drop shipped from Redding.  If it's special/back order then they'll ship from Germany to Redding and then ship it to the customer from there.  I guess you can buy some items in store as H20 mentioned, and you can order the Schoeps t-shirt at least over the phone.

[SClassical]

I'm pretty sure that any Schoeps special order from any US distributor (whether Sweetwater, B&H, Posthorn, Full Compass, or anyone else in the US) comes to them via Redding Audio.

That's correct AFAIK, Redding is the US Schoeps distributor and the others that you mentioned are Schoeps dealers.  Except for the higher volume products (cmc6, mk4, etc.) at larger dealers, many Schoeps items will be drop shipped from Redding.  If it's special/back order then they'll ship from Germany to Redding and then ship it to the customer from there.  I guess you can buy some items in store as H20 mentioned, and you can order the Schoeps t-shirt at least over the phone.

knowing that my order wil b shipped from redding makes me wonder why the hell sweetwater wanted to charge me extra for shipping if they r not shipping it.

[su6oxone]

knowing that my order wil b shipped from redding makes me wonder why the hell sweetwater wanted to charge me extra for shipping if they r not shipping it.

Well, someone has to pay for shipping... that is, Redding Audio won't ship it for free, but rather they charge the dealer for shipping costs.  The dealer can sweeten the deal by offering free shipping, but that is up to them. 

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Well... On top of that, Schoeps enforces minimum pricing.  Retailers are not allowed to discount their products.  However, they can make shipping free...

[OFOTD]

knowing that my order wil b shipped from redding makes me wonder why the hell sweetwater wanted to charge me extra for shipping if they r not shipping it.

Because vendors like Sweetwater and Full Compass have salespeople that live off of commissions.   Charging for shipping is a money maker plain and simple. 

It still surprises me that any Schoeps owner would buy from anywhere but Redding.  In the world of price structures and price matching why go with someone else for Schoeps products?

[SClassical]

knowing that my order wil b shipped from redding makes me wonder why the hell sweetwater wanted to charge me extra for shipping if they r not shipping it.

Well, someone has to pay for shipping... that is, Redding Audio won't ship it for free, but rather they charge the dealer for shipping costs.  The dealer can sweeten the deal by offering free shipping, but that is up to them.

Well if that was true they should charge shipping for ALL products (incl Schoeps items) because someone has to pay for it like you said..The thing is the seller added shipping to my order on the phone and I had to haggle with him.

[hi and lo]

It still surprises me that any Schoeps owner would buy from anywhere but Redding.

I agree with the exception of Jerry Bruck at Posthorn. I'll pay the NY sales tax just to go to his office and chat it up for 30 minutes.

[su6oxone]

It still surprises me that any Schoeps owner would buy from anywhere but Redding.  In the world of price structures and price matching why go with someone else for Schoeps products?

Redding is only a distributor for Schoeps, they don't let you actually order products from them (I've tried).  They might make exceptions if you're local and drop by their facility, but even when I wanted to buy a shockmount and windscreens they told me I had to order from a dealer (I went with Posthorn then).  Certains items they might sell directly themselves, like the Schoeps t-shirts.

[stevetoney]

Redding is only a distributor for Schoeps, they don't let you actually order products from them (I've tried).  They might make exceptions if you're local and drop by their facility, but even when I wanted to buy a shockmount and windscreens they told me I had to order from a dealer (I went with Posthorn then).  Certains items they might sell directly themselves, like the Schoeps t-shirts.

Correct.  In a recent transaction I was required by Redding to purchase my MK22's directly from a retailer (I chose Sweetwater) via special order.  I also wanted some fuses for my Schoeps preamp (which were $2.50 each) and Redding sold those directly.

Incidentally, Sweetwater did proactively inform me during my order that there would be a shipping fee since this was a special order.  I was fine with that.  In the end though, since this was my first order from them and since I had a nice conversation with the sales person about mics and Schoeps gear in general, he ended up waiving the shipping fee. 

[hi and lo]

On Monday I think i will ask them to refund my initial payment and charge my card again if they really want to so I have a new payment date.

Well, what happened?

*edited to add quote - let's a get follow-up after all the fervor. Were they reasonable to your request?

[it-goes-to-eleven]

What caps are taking months to get?

Edit: I expect a supplier to have "terms" with their vendors.  In this case that means they have a line of credit with Redding.   If they cannot get a line of credit with their distributor, it makes me question how healthy their business is, and their practices in general.  And if they don't have a line of credit with the distrib, they have other credit that makes pre-charging unnecessary.   If the pre-charge is just for a handful of days as the product drop-ships, that isn't a big deal.  But a pre-charge for a delay of this duration is a warning sign, to me.. 

[rich]

perhaps this has something to do with the delay....

"U.S. Edition Stereo Sets
All U.S. Edition Stereo Sets are now discontinued. As a result of the consistent
demand for all-inclusive stereo sets, Schoeps has decided to offer their own
stereo sets to the distribution network. These new sets are found on page 4 of
the Pro Net Price List. Our Mono Microphone Sets are unaffected by this and are
still offered."

rich

[SClassical]

To update this tread...I just received my caps today on Oct 18th after waiting for nearly 2 months!
Overall it was a stressful purchase. I was able to cancel my old payment and make another payment. But at the end I got my caps...I think in the future I will purchase my caps from another place.

[su6oxone]

Glad you finally got 'em.  What caps are they btw? 

[SClassical]

Oh they were MK22s