Topic: Mic for loud rock shows

[Mr.Scully]

Does anybody sell hat/cap mounts for reasonable prices? I've seen SoundProfessionals offering that but $47 incl. postage is quite a lot for a baseball cap. And sadly I'm an IT guy so creating anything with my own hands takes ages and I'd need at least five attempts (= destroyed caps) before I'd create something at least remotely useful 

[F.O.Bean]

search for Kangol hats

[fandelive]

I'm an IT guy so creating anything with my own hands takes ages and I'd need at least five attempts (= destroyed caps) before I'd create something at least remotely useful 

Ask your mum (not kidding) 
You have a PM.

[Mr.Scully]

search for Kangol hats

Any tips in which of their models I wouldn't look dumb? I'm a tall 32-year-old guy with a big head 

fandelive - thanks for the PM, I will try to create something like that

[fandelive]

I'm a tall 32-year-old guy with a big head 

That's pretty cool to rise the mics up above the crowd and get a good stereo separation 

[fmaderjr]

Does anybody sell hat/cap mounts for reasonable prices? I've seen SoundProfessionals offering that but $47 incl. postage is quite a lot for a baseball cap. And sadly I'm an IT guy so creating anything with my own hands takes ages and I'd need at least five attempts (= destroyed caps) before I'd create something at least remotely useful 

I hate that SP hat. Except when using omnis, you can't have the mics flush against the surface of the hat (or the vents would be obstructed) so the mics are visible like little horns sticking out of the hat.

Get something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-KANGOL-Tropic-Ventair-504-Ivy-Cap-/380264989220?pt=US_Hats&var=&hash=item9757698c69
and position the mics inside the part of the liner that folds up. If using cards, you can position them near the back of your head so they will be angled apart a bit for better stereo separation. For omnis, above the temples is good.

[acidjack]

Does anybody sell hat/cap mounts for reasonable prices? I've seen SoundProfessionals offering that but $47 incl. postage is quite a lot for a baseball cap. And sadly I'm an IT guy so creating anything with my own hands takes ages and I'd need at least five attempts (= destroyed caps) before I'd create something at least remotely useful 

I hate that SP hat. Except when using omnis, you can't have the mics flush against the surface of the hat (or the vents would be obstructed) so the mics are visible like little horns sticking out of the hat.

Get something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-KANGOL-Tropic-Ventair-504-Ivy-Cap-/380264989220?pt=US_Hats&var=&hash=item9757698c69
and position the mics inside the part of the liner that folds up. If using cards, you can position them near the back of your head so they will be angled apart a bit for better stereo separation. For omnis, above the temples is good.

True. That SP hat is great for omnis, but useless for everything else.

[Mr.Scully]

OK, I got the CA-14 from Chris Church yesterday (the deal was not so sweet as I had to pay custom tax) and did a brief test. I recorded two Slovakian punk bands from a VERY BAD spot as I was in the photopit - basically right at the stage but couldn't hear properly neither the stage speakers, neither the big venue speakers. But both were punk bands, I had the same position and roughly the overall conditions were very similar.

I did some very brief postprocessing (same in both cases - basically increasing the treble and lowering bass as the first versions of the recording sounded bad), here are the results and my opinion:

SP-CMC-8 cardioids + battery box (line-in input)
Sample: http://www.queenconcerts.com/tmp/mics/tesths.flac
- overall more treble, slightly clearer sound, lack of bass

CA-14 cardioids (no battery box, directly mic input)
Sample: http://www.queenconcerts.com/tmp/mics/testik.flac
- less clarity but more natural sound, more bass

I know this is a very amateur test and the results can't be compared but I think these mics are very similar in terms of overall performance. At the moment I'm not convinced which one is better but I'm definitely looking forward to taking my CA-14 to some proper concert where I'd be standing at the "sweet spot".

[fmaderjr]

CA-14 cardioids (no battery box, directly mic input)
Sample: http://www.queenconcerts.com/tmp/mics/testik.flac
- less clarity but more natural sound, more bass

CA-14's are not designed to run mic in without a battery box (unless you ordered a 2.2 ohm resistor version which I know he offered on CA-11's). Although Chris doesn't recommend it, you might do OK mic in with a recorder that puts out 4.5 volts of plug in power like a Marantz PMD-620.

You should get more clarity and reduce the chance of distortion with a battery box.

IMO CA-14's are far superior to SP-CMC-8 cards, which are noted for poor bass.

[Mr.Scully]

CA-14 cardioids (no battery box, directly mic input)
Sample: http://www.queenconcerts.com/tmp/mics/testik.flac
- less clarity but more natural sound, more bass

CA-14's are not designed to run mic in without a battery box (unless you ordered a 2.2 ohm resistor version which I know he offered on CA-11's). Although Chris doesn't recommend it, you up might do OK mic in with a recorder that puts out 4.5 volts of plug in power like a Marantz PMD-620.

You should get more clarity and reduce the chance of distortion with a battery box.

IMO CA-14's are far superior to SP-CMC-8 cards, which are noted for poor bass.

Yes, I just didn't have any battery for Chris' battery box (his equipment arrived yesterday afternoon) so I decided to risk it without the battery box and there was still no distortion at all, it seems the cardioids usually don't have a problem with that.

Any idea if there are any differences between the Sound Professionals battery box and the one from Chris Church? Of course, the one from SP can be set to limit different frequencies so it's more versatile but overall they have the same purpose and doesn't matter which one I use, right?

[darktrain]

CA-14 cardioids (no battery box, directly mic input)
Sample: http://www.queenconcerts.com/tmp/mics/testik.flac
- less clarity but more natural sound, more bass

CA-14's are not designed to run mic in without a battery box (unless you ordered a 2.2 ohm resistor version which I know he offered on CA-11's). Although Chris doesn't recommend it, you up might do OK mic in with a recorder that puts out 4.5 volts of plug in power like a Marantz PMD-620.

You should get more clarity and reduce the chance of distortion with a battery box.

IMO CA-14's are far superior to SP-CMC-8 cards, which are noted for poor bass.

Yes, I just didn't have any battery for Chris' battery box (his equipment arrived yesterday afternoon) so I decided to risk it without the battery box and there was still no distortion at all, it seems the cardioids usually don't have a problem with that.

Any idea if there are any differences between the Sound Professionals battery box and the one from Chris Church? Of course, the one from SP can be set to limit different frequencies so it's more versatile but overall they have the same purpose and doesn't matter which one I use, right?

When using Cards most people here would agree to never use any of the bass roll off features on the sp boxes, besides there size they are battery boxes and just supply power to the mics

[waltmon]

2 questions...

   I'm about to jump into stealthing....with the CA-14's will they need to be modded for loud shows (ie: Staind, Social Distortion) I'm going to got with the 9200>hp120...I may go with the MM seinheiser cards though.

2nd...with the Kangol.  Do you where it backwards..aka: Samuel S, Jackson Motherf*cker style...emblem forward?


Thanks.

[Church-Audio]

CA-14 cardioids (no battery box, directly mic input)
Sample: http://www.queenconcerts.com/tmp/mics/testik.flac
- less clarity but more natural sound, more bass

CA-14's are not designed to run mic in without a battery box (unless you ordered a 2.2 ohm resistor version which I know he offered on CA-11's). Although Chris doesn't recommend it, you up might do OK mic in with a recorder that puts out 4.5 volts of plug in power like a Marantz PMD-620.

You should get more clarity and reduce the chance of distortion with a battery box.

IMO CA-14's are far superior to SP-CMC-8 cards, which are noted for poor bass.

Yes, I just didn't have any battery for Chris' battery box (his equipment arrived yesterday afternoon) so I decided to risk it without the battery box and there was still no distortion at all, it seems the cardioids usually don't have a problem with that.

Any idea if there are any differences between the Sound Professionals battery box and the one from Chris Church? Of course, the one from SP can be set to limit different frequencies so it's more versatile but overall they have the same purpose and doesn't matter which one I use, right?

The parts inside my bb are the highest quality. And you DO NOT need bass roll off anyway it was just someones idea of reducing distortion it does not do that at all. If you have too much bass hats one thing but for reduction of distortion its useless. So I would stick to my battery box. Since you already own it anyway.

[adrianf74]

OK, I got the CA-14 from Chris Church yesterday (the deal was not so sweet as I had to pay custom tax) and did a brief test. I recorded two Slovakian punk bands from a VERY BAD spot as I was in the photopit - basically right at the stage but couldn't hear properly neither the stage speakers, neither the big venue speakers. But both were punk bands, I had the same position and roughly the overall conditions were very similar.

Unfortunately customs tax/duty are a necessary evil that most of us can't avoid.  As I also live in Canada, I had to pay 13% tax on the full order I made recently but that's just the way it goes.

Back to your mics... I would find it very odd that the CMC-8's would sound "more clear" than the CA-14's and since you didn't power the CA-14's properly, that could add to your lack of clarity.  I've owned both mics and the CA-14's do a MUCH BETTER job than the CMC-8's ever could image doing.   Regardless, standing in the photo pit and running mics that pic up audio "in the distance" equates to a "hot mess" of a recording in my mind.  I'm guessing the club you were at was rather small.  From where you were, omni mics might have been a better choice although you weren't really in the path of any mixed sound and that recording with omnis wouldn't have fared much better.

That said, if you're going to run cardioid mics, I suggest you try and stand back a bit (perhaps closer to the venue's sweetspot which is usually at or close to the soundboard area.   Your results might be better without much mucking around.  Another thing is to *NEVER* run bass roll off (high pass filter) on cardioid mics as there is no need.   Hope this helps.

[terabyte23]

I would find it very odd that the CMC-8's would sound "more clear" than the CA-14's

I see you keep writing this sort of thing across different threads (including my WTB thread).  Do you also find it "very odd" that one person's perception of sound can differ from another person's?  Or that their taste in audio can simply differ?

In testing I've done with the CMC-8 cards vs. the CA-14 cards (yes I own both), I have found the same thing as the original poster.  But rather than saying it's "very odd" that the CA-14's don't sound more clear (for example), I attribute it to my perception of the sound and my individual taste.

I've owned both mics and the CA-14's do a MUCH BETTER job than the CMC-8's ever could image doing.
I've owned both mics and in my opinion the CA-14's did a MUCH BETTER job than the CMC-8's in my recording environments.

There, FTFY.