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Offline JusTapin

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Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« on: January 18, 2013, 04:05:33 PM »
First, I'd like to say thanks to all of you who have shared your labors of love for recording music with us music lovers.  I had no clue about this hobby until the last year or so because I've sort of been out of the concert going scene for several years and just now I'm at point in life where I am able to start getting out to enjoy the finer things again. lol  No, not prison, but at times I suppose it felt like it.

So anyway, I wanted to post a little intro, a thanks, and a quick questions if you don't mind.  Being the newbie, I hope this is wrong or in the wrong section.  Anyway, I'm getting to old fart status I guess, no offense to any others over the 50 mark, haha, but over the last year as I said I have started to live life again and have been attending a lot of concerts and while doing so I've been introduced to this awesome hobby of taping and sharing!  I recently bumped into a taper while waiting in line at a recent show and decided I really want to get into this as a hobby.

My wife won't be happy because when I get into something it usually cost a lot and it consumes me and I won't stop until whatever it is reaches some acceptable point of perfection.  Guess I can blame my years of military service for creating the perfectionist asshole my wife claims I have become. LOL  Anyhow, before babbling on, I'm excited about getting into this new hobby and I am spending hours reading through the pages and pages of information here feeling a new addiction taking hold real quick.  It, however, is admittedly just a little overwhelming! 

Like I said, we've started attending a lot of concerts and I'm looking to primarily do open recording with a possible stealth mission here or there, but primarily I hope to do most in the open.  I'm looking at a budget to get into it probably around $500 (+ or -) to get started and see if I stick with it, thinking I can always upgrade down the road.  With the learning curve seeming sort of steep right now, I'm going to try and take it slow to avoid the mistake purchases and the oh crap this is junk purchases.  I believe and have learned the hard way too many times that you truly do get what you pay for it most instances...so I don't mind spending a little more the first time to get something that is going to be durable and compatible etc.

I'm itching to order my first piece, patience isn't a strong point of mine, but I've seen the Tascam DR2D (I've read the two monster threads) at marked down prices (under $150) and I'm wondering if that would be a good starter for now.  I'm leaning towards the Sony PCM-D50 from what I've been reading here, however, I'm thinking if I can start out with a little less expensive recorder to get started I'll upgrade later and would still have a nice recorder for backup or other occasions etc.   So I guess my first big question, purchasing the DR2D would be a good start, wouldn't it?  Or tell me to go back and read more! haha I'm looking at picking up some external mics to go with it and I've about come to the conclusion I would initially start with the CA 9100 package with battery box etc.

I've obviously got a ton of learning to do and your help will be greatly appreciated so thanks in advance for any and all advice.  Also, I apologize if I've babbled on and on and have made no sense. LOL

Some upcoming shows I'll be attending are Feb 8, Willie Nelson, Florence SC, Apr 6, DMB, B'Ham AL and Apr 27, 28 JazzFest NOLA, possible Eric Clapton in Raleigh, if anyone will be taping and wouldn't mind showing me around a little.  I'm in the Fayetteville, NC area if there is anyone local that needs an intern or gofer.   :D
Mics: AKG C460B, ck61/ck63, Naiant Actives/PFAs, AT835 cards/hypers (4.7 mod), CA-11 Croakies
Pre/BB: GD Lunatech V3, CA-9200, UA5, SD USBPre2, Neumenn BS48i-2
Decks: Roland R-44, Marantz PMD661 (OCM), Sony PCM-M10

Offline ScoobieKW

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2013, 05:37:04 PM »
At your budget I'd recommend against the Sony D50 as too expensive. A middle ground alternative is the Sony M10. Great battery life (better than the DR-2D) good preamps and a solid build quality.

Naiant mics X-R series, built by our own Jon Stoppable with his Tinyhead preamp would get you out the door with external mics, preamp, and recorder for under $500.

Church mics and preamps would also fit your budget, but build and shipping delays are a common issue that's brought up on this board about them.

I own the M10 and a DR-2D, and I much prefer the M10 for stereo recording, the DR-2D comes out when I want to record 4 track adding in a board feed.
Busman BSC1, AT853 (O,C),KAM i2 Chuck Mod (C), Nak 300 (C),
M10, UA-5, US-1800, Presonus Firepod

http://kennedy-williams.net/scoobiesnax/

Offline acidjack

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2013, 05:39:10 PM »
Welcome!  I hope you find taping as rewarding as we do.  Simplest and most upgradeable starter rig right now, I think:

Sony PCM-M10 (the D50 is a very nice deck, but it costs twice as much and the biggest improvement over the M10 is the digital input)  [$250] or Roland R-05 [$200 and functionally the same] http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/R05?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PPC&utm_campaign=none&gclid=CNigv-T78rQCFYLd4AodyBEA2A
Naiant Tinybox [$220 or so; can provide "plug in" power to small mics but also 48V phantom power to "full size" mics when you upgrade to those]  http://www.naiant.com
Church Audio CA-14 cardiods [$125]  - they're small and good for stealthing, but within your budget I think they make the most sense and they have done many a fine job for open taping. [see "Retail Space" below]
[EDIT] the Naiant X-R could also be a great option.  I have a pair on order but have never heard them myself.

If you want to spend more and want full-size mics, the Avantone CK-1 ($300/pr) is the best bet.  But with full-size mics you will also need a T-bar, and cables, and all of that costs more money.   

If you want something less upgradeable but also less expensive, hold off on the tinybox and just get a battery box ($29) with your CA-14s.  Then you'll have money for a stand to use for your open taping.  Impact stands are not the greatest ever (be careful not to over-tighten or the clips will break), but they're cheap and they work. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/253067-REG/Impact_LS10AB_Air_Cushioned_Light_Stand.html
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline chinariderstl

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2013, 06:10:49 PM »
Definitely agree the Sony PCM-M10 is the way to go.  I have one and love it, super easy to use and super long battery life.

I would suggest checking out the Yard Sale frequently as there's a ton of great deals from fellow tapers selling some pretty nice stuff.  I scored all my mics, both of my pre-amps and a deck through the Yard Sale.

There are two pairs of Audio-Technica AT853's in the Yard Sale now.  One from darktrain, I bought mine from darktrain and they were in mint condition.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=160220.0

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=160221.0

Sound Professionals also sells a pair, known as SP-CMC-4U.

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-4U

Those into a Naiant Tinybox into a Sony M10 would be a nice, nice setup.

http://www.naiant.com/tinyboxspecification.html

There is also a nice set of Audix mics in the Yard Sale, if I didn't have a mic problem, I might be tempted to grab them.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=160133.0
Mics: Audio-Technica AT853's, Avantone CK-40 (Busman mod), Busman BSC1's, DPA 4022's, DPA 4060's
Pres: Apogee Mini-MP, Core Sound Battery Box
Decks: Sony PCM-M10, Tascam DR-2D, Tascam DR-680 (Busman mod)
Power: Initial RB-270, Naztech PB15000
LMA: http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Chris+Finn%22

Offline jbell

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2013, 06:17:47 PM »
The at853's in the YS would be a nice starter mic plus you can get different cap options!!  I doubt they will last long at that price.

Definitely agree the Sony PCM-M10 is the way to go.  I have one and love it, super easy to use and super long battery life.

I would suggest checking out the Yard Sale frequently as there's a ton of great deals from fellow tapers selling some pretty nice stuff.  I scored all my mics, both of my pre-amps and a deck through the Yard Sale.

There are two pairs of Audio-Technica AT853's in the Yard Sale now.  One from darktrain, I bought mine from darktrain and they were in mint condition.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=160220.0

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=160221.0

Sound Professionals also sells a pair, known as SP-CMC-4U.

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-4U

Those into a Naiant Tinybox into a Sony M10 would be a nice, nice setup.

http://www.naiant.com/tinyboxspecification.html

There is also a nice set of Audix mics in the Yard Sale, if I didn't have a mic problem, I might be tempted to grab them.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=160133.0
Mics: DPA ST4011ER & 4018ER
Preamps: DPA MMA 6000 | Audioroot Femto
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre-10 II | Sony PCM A10

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Offline brad.bartels

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2013, 06:49:22 PM »
I was going to recommend exaclty what Jack did. CA-14 cards -> Tinybox -> Sony M-10. And like he said, if the Tinybox pushes you over your budget, you could go with just a battery box to start with, but eventually you'll probably want a pre-amp of some kind. You can tape open or stealth with that and for the money, I think it's hard to beat the CA-14's, I've heard plenty of really nice recordings from them. Or for mics, you can look into the Naiant mics (heard good things about them, but not many recordings) or some of the AT mics (I'm not an expert on them either).

Welcome and good luck!

I started with a completely different setup than I have now but if I had it to do all over again in the beginning and the budget that you have, that is how I would go, for what it's worth.

Then for open taping, you'll need some additional stuff like a stand a mouting bar, cables, etc.

Depending on your schedule, if you have the time to do some waiting and watching, you can probably get everything you need in the Yard Sale here and save yourself some money as well.


Welcome!  I hope you find taping as rewarding as we do.  Simplest and most upgradeable starter rig right now, I think:

Sony PCM-M10 (the D50 is a very nice deck, but it costs twice as much and the biggest improvement over the M10 is the digital input)  [$250] or Roland R-05 [$200 and functionally the same] http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/R05?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PPC&utm_campaign=none&gclid=CNigv-T78rQCFYLd4AodyBEA2A
Naiant Tinybox [$220 or so; can provide "plug in" power to small mics but also 48V phantom power to "full size" mics when you upgrade to those]  http://www.naiant.com
Church Audio CA-14 cardiods [$125]  - they're small and good for stealthing, but within your budget I think they make the most sense and they have done many a fine job for open taping. [see "Retail Space" below]
[EDIT] the Naiant X-R could also be a great option.  I have a pair on order but have never heard them myself.

If you want to spend more and want full-size mics, the Avantone CK-1 ($300/pr) is the best bet.  But with full-size mics you will also need a T-bar, and cables, and all of that costs more money.   

If you want something less upgradeable but also less expensive, hold off on the tinybox and just get a battery box ($29) with your CA-14s.  Then you'll have money for a stand to use for your open taping.  Impact stands are not the greatest ever (be careful not to over-tighten or the clips will break), but they're cheap and they work. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/253067-REG/Impact_LS10AB_Air_Cushioned_Light_Stand.html
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 06:51:09 PM by brad.bartels »

Offline yltfan

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2013, 08:40:05 PM »
But with the DR2D on sale for $90, and the option of going 4 channel, is the M-10 really the way to go?
Mics: AT4051, AT4053, KM140, AKG C414, Beyerdynamic MEM86 guns, Nak cm300, AT853 4.7mod
Pre: V3, CA-9100
Recorders: Busman DR-680, iRivers, minidisc, jb3, and DAT

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Offline ScoobieKW

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2013, 08:52:23 PM »
With a preamp the DR-2D is fine.
With a battery box, I'd go M10 as it's preamp and gain settings are more flexible
Busman BSC1, AT853 (O,C),KAM i2 Chuck Mod (C), Nak 300 (C),
M10, UA-5, US-1800, Presonus Firepod

http://kennedy-williams.net/scoobiesnax/

Offline JusTapin

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2013, 09:30:19 PM »
Thank you all for the awesome information!  I noticed Sony PCM-M10 during my initial research and with almost all of you recommending it, I've spent some more time looking at this unit.  Definitely has some great reviews and would be great at this cost.  My only decision at this point may be color.  haha

yitfan - I've found it for $149 and that's making it difficult for me to pull the trigger on the M10.  Not at all disputing the quality of the Sony, at $239 I have no doubt it is worth every penny, but this would leave an additional $80 for other equipment and if I stick with it I wouldn't have an issue dropping $500 for say Sony D50 down the road. 

I almost just pulled the trigger on the D50 an hour ago but I just feel like I need to try keep the budget I set under control until I figure it all out and make sure I don't get frustrated trying to learn it all and end up having a pile of expensive equipment laying around.  Like now one of my concerns are a couple of amphitheater shows I have planned and I guess I'm just not understanding how to get the access to setup a stand etc with standard seat tickets etc.  I mean I know when there's a pit or GA open type floor access, that doesn't seem so complicated as far as setting up with a wide open floor area.  I've paid attention to the tapers at the past few shows I've attended and I guess I've got a comfortable feeling about how that access works, it's the seating only situations I haven't seen or paid attention to yet.  Obviously I have zero knowledge base and I need to do a lot more research on the entire process.

I appreciate all of your willingness to help and look forward to the day that maybe I'll be able to contribute and give back!  I'm at about 90% on the recorder decision and hope I can be patient enough not to order the D50 and say screw the budget.  haha  Now off to read up on all of the mic options y'all shared!  Thanks again to each of you! 

EDIT - After thinking more about my last comments, access really isn't that important. Figure out a what equipment is my priority right now. LOL
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 09:44:39 PM by JusTapin »
Mics: AKG C460B, ck61/ck63, Naiant Actives/PFAs, AT835 cards/hypers (4.7 mod), CA-11 Croakies
Pre/BB: GD Lunatech V3, CA-9200, UA5, SD USBPre2, Neumenn BS48i-2
Decks: Roland R-44, Marantz PMD661 (OCM), Sony PCM-M10

Offline chinariderstl

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2013, 09:45:33 PM »
Taping in tight quarters can often be a challenge.  I have a Manfrotto 368B stand.  I have the all the legs taped with neon orange gaffers tape, tape the legs down and often afix a small LED flashlight to illuminate the base / area.  It helps to tape with a buddy as well, as they can usually make beer runs and help guard your stand if you have to run to the bathroom.

I also have a Manfrotto 649 clamp and a Manfrotto 009B extension pole for clamping.  I have clamped to bar rails and to my seat before.

I've included links to each.

HTH

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/546528-REG/Manfrotto_368B_368B_Basic_Black_Light.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/252212-REG/Manfrotto_649_649_Quick_Action_Release.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/546540-REG/Manfrotto_099B_3_Section_Extension_Pole_35.html
Mics: Audio-Technica AT853's, Avantone CK-40 (Busman mod), Busman BSC1's, DPA 4022's, DPA 4060's
Pres: Apogee Mini-MP, Core Sound Battery Box
Decks: Sony PCM-M10, Tascam DR-2D, Tascam DR-680 (Busman mod)
Power: Initial RB-270, Naztech PB15000
LMA: http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Chris+Finn%22

Offline twatts (pants are so over-rated...)

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2013, 09:54:24 PM »
Welcome, from another Team NCer!

Come find us here:  http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=157700.msg2016565#new

We are a fairly large group, and very friendly... 

Terry
***Do you have PHISH, VIDA BLUE, JAZZ MANDOLIN PROJECT or any other Phish related DATs/Tapes/MDs that need to be transferred???  I can do them for you!!!***

I will return your DATs/Tapes/MDs.  I'll also provide Master FLAC files via DropBox.  PM me for details.

Sony PCM R500 > SPDIF > Tascam HD-P2
Nakamichi DR-3 > (Oade Advanced Concert Mod) Tascam HD-P2
Sony MDS-JE510 > Hosa ODL-276 > Tascam HD-P2

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Offline brad.bartels

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2013, 09:54:50 PM »
I guess it's a matter of choice / preference and the DR2D is less than half the price and if he plans to do any 4 channel (generally SBD / AUD) recordings, it makes sense. I have both and I only have used the DR2D a couple of times (just got it recently), so I haven't become nearly as familiar with it as the M10. So yeah, there are pros and cons for sure. I just prefer the M10 so far for 2 channel recording, but it may just be a learning curve with the DR2D. I know plenty of folks like it and will vouch for it. And having something for less than half the price and I don't think a whole lot of recording quality sacrifice (not any as far as I know but I haven't done any comps)  plus the ability to run 4 chan (two 2 chan sources and have the synched and time aligned) if needed would make it attractive. I just prefer the interface and build quality of the M10 - so at this point, it is my preference for 2 chan recording.

And one reason I'm not high on the DR2D is that it died after less than 2 hours and about half-way through the main act the last time I used it. Was using the same NiMH re-cyclable batteries that I run all the time in the M10 - got a set of 4, so I had 2 in each recorder) - I think the M10 still showed full on the battery meter. I was running SBD + mics, but luckily was running only one source (SBD) into the DR2D (and the feed was pretty bad - would probably not have used it anyway, so it didn't even hack me off like it would have if I had wished I had it).

I bought the DR2D for just this occaision but more than anything, I didn't trust my familiarity with it enough to run both sources into it and didn't have a good feel for it's battery life (guess I found out). I'm glad I didn't run both into the DR2D, because I would have completely missed the second half of the show. That being said, it is on the original SW that it came with (had just gotten it a few days before - when I checked it after this happened it was ver 1.something, not sure what the latest is). I think the early SW versions did have a battery life problem. I haven't gotten around to figuring out if I have the latest SW and if not how to upgrade it... Haven't had another chance at a SBD+AUD since this happened, but something I need to do.

Maybe some folks that have the DR2D and were smart enough to update the SW before they used it can comment on the battery life with the latest SW. And if anyone knows the latest version and how to upgrade to it, I wouldn't mind a PM;)

Again - to the original OP, welcome and I hope this hobby is as rewarding for you as I think it is for most of us. One of many choices you'll have to make. Sounds like you've been reading the right threads to make an informed decision.


But with the DR2D on sale for $90, and the option of going 4 channel, is the M-10 really the way to go?

Offline brad.bartels

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2013, 10:01:16 PM »
I found an M-10 (I think it claimed to be used once and it did look brand new when I got it) on eBay for $175 - you might check there and in the YS, I think they generally go for around $200. And the DR2D, I found somewhere (I'll see if I can remember where) new for I think $90 - I want to say B&H, but that might not be right. If you want new, then yeah, I think the M-10 is going to run somewhere around $230+ right now.


Thank you all for the awesome information!  I noticed Sony PCM-M10 during my initial research and with almost all of you recommending it, I've spent some more time looking at this unit.  Definitely has some great reviews and would be great at this cost.  My only decision at this point may be color.  haha

yitfan - I've found it for $149 and that's making it difficult for me to pull the trigger on the M10.  Not at all disputing the quality of the Sony, at $239 I have no doubt it is worth every penny, but this would leave an additional $80 for other equipment and if I stick with it I wouldn't have an issue dropping $500 for say Sony D50 down the road. 

I almost just pulled the trigger on the D50 an hour ago but I just feel like I need to try keep the budget I set under control until I figure it all out and make sure I don't get frustrated trying to learn it all and end up having a pile of expensive equipment laying around.  Like now one of my concerns are a couple of amphitheater shows I have planned and I guess I'm just not understanding how to get the access to setup a stand etc with standard seat tickets etc.  I mean I know when there's a pit or GA open type floor access, that doesn't seem so complicated as far as setting up with a wide open floor area.  I've paid attention to the tapers at the past few shows I've attended and I guess I've got a comfortable feeling about how that access works, it's the seating only situations I haven't seen or paid attention to yet.  Obviously I have zero knowledge base and I need to do a lot more research on the entire process.

I appreciate all of your willingness to help and look forward to the day that maybe I'll be able to contribute and give back!  I'm at about 90% on the recorder decision and hope I can be patient enough not to order the D50 and say screw the budget.  haha  Now off to read up on all of the mic options y'all shared!  Thanks again to each of you! 

EDIT - After thinking more about my last comments, access really isn't that important. Figure out a what equipment is my priority right now. LOL

Offline brad.bartels

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2013, 10:17:24 PM »
Well, OK - completely lied. Rather mis-remembered. I paid $149 for the DR2D new. Just found the confirmation email when I bought it a few months ago. Bought it somewhere on Amazon. I did notice in looking that it's "no longer available" at B&H and Sweetwater, so if you want to go that route and you want it new, you should probably grab one now while you can still find one. That usually means they are no longer in production, I think.


I found an M-10 (I think it claimed to be used once and it did look brand new when I got it) on eBay for $175 - you might check there and in the YS, I think they generally go for around $200. And the DR2D, I found somewhere (I'll see if I can remember where) new for I think $90 - I want to say B&H, but that might not be right. If you want new, then yeah, I think the M-10 is going to run somewhere around $230+ right now.


Thank you all for the awesome information!  I noticed Sony PCM-M10 during my initial research and with almost all of you recommending it, I've spent some more time looking at this unit.  Definitely has some great reviews and would be great at this cost.  My only decision at this point may be color.  haha

yitfan - I've found it for $149 and that's making it difficult for me to pull the trigger on the M10.  Not at all disputing the quality of the Sony, at $239 I have no doubt it is worth every penny, but this would leave an additional $80 for other equipment and if I stick with it I wouldn't have an issue dropping $500 for say Sony D50 down the road. 

I almost just pulled the trigger on the D50 an hour ago but I just feel like I need to try keep the budget I set under control until I figure it all out and make sure I don't get frustrated trying to learn it all and end up having a pile of expensive equipment laying around.  Like now one of my concerns are a couple of amphitheater shows I have planned and I guess I'm just not understanding how to get the access to setup a stand etc with standard seat tickets etc.  I mean I know when there's a pit or GA open type floor access, that doesn't seem so complicated as far as setting up with a wide open floor area.  I've paid attention to the tapers at the past few shows I've attended and I guess I've got a comfortable feeling about how that access works, it's the seating only situations I haven't seen or paid attention to yet.  Obviously I have zero knowledge base and I need to do a lot more research on the entire process.

I appreciate all of your willingness to help and look forward to the day that maybe I'll be able to contribute and give back!  I'm at about 90% on the recorder decision and hope I can be patient enough not to order the D50 and say screw the budget.  haha  Now off to read up on all of the mic options y'all shared!  Thanks again to each of you! 

EDIT - After thinking more about my last comments, access really isn't that important. Figure out a what equipment is my priority right now. LOL

Offline chinariderstl

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2013, 10:33:18 PM »
No affiliation, but wanted to throw this out as well.  Here's a pair of Berliner CM33's on eBay for $300.  I've heard some damn good tapes with those little bad dogs.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Berliner-CM33-Stereo-Microphones-in-Wood-Box-Made-for-Neumann-KM-184-/111001984035?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Microphones&hash=item19d83bdc23
Mics: Audio-Technica AT853's, Avantone CK-40 (Busman mod), Busman BSC1's, DPA 4022's, DPA 4060's
Pres: Apogee Mini-MP, Core Sound Battery Box
Decks: Sony PCM-M10, Tascam DR-2D, Tascam DR-680 (Busman mod)
Power: Initial RB-270, Naztech PB15000
LMA: http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Chris+Finn%22

colinw

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2013, 11:06:44 PM »
Welcome.

I have had similar experience in the last few months or year getting back into taping, and I went through a similar process of starting small, and ending where I did, which is with a relatively conservative rig, but that offers excellent quality for the money, and I have made some great tapes.

I originally ran a Tascam Dr07mkii recorder, using Church Audio CA14 cardioids or omnis, along with the plain old ugly 9 volt battery box. I made some great tapes to my ears with this rig, both open and stealth. I had bought a relatively inexpensive Impact mic stand and a few cables to run open with.

I then bought a Naiant Tinybox to use as a preamp, and the recordings improved quite a bit using the same mics.

The next purchase was a set of Busman BSC1 mics with cardioid, omni and hypercardioid capsules. This was the last step in my taping rig, giving me a solid rig for almost any situation. All in, I am probably at about 1k for the whole thing.

I also have a Tascam Dr2d which I use for 4 channel recording (2 from a soundboard, and 2 from mics). Great little recorder!

If you have a budget of about $500, for a little more you could probably get a set of CA14 mics, a Naiant Tinybox, and the DR2d, which will allow for 2 or 4 channel recording. People have a huge crush on the Sony machine around here, but I honestly don't see what it would provide to me over the rig I put together, aside from  a longer battery life, which isn't really an issue for me. With the CA14s, your Dr2d, and a battery box you'll be able to pull some great recordings. Add in the Tinybox and you're going to be even happier, but it is a bit of an expense.

Good luck and have fun!

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2013, 11:36:29 PM »
http://www.naiant.com

If you buy from Jon, you are buying from a fellow NCer...

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Offline JusTapin

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2013, 12:21:26 AM »
Taping in tight quarters can often be a challenge.  I have a Manfrotto 368B stand.  I have the all the legs taped with neon orange gaffers tape, tape the legs down and often afix a small LED flashlight to illuminate the base / area.  It helps to tape with a buddy as well, as they can usually make beer runs and help guard your stand if you have to run to the bathroom.

I also have a Manfrotto 649 clamp and a Manfrotto 009B extension pole for clamping.  I have clamped to bar rails and to my seat before.

I've included links to each.

HTH

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/546528-REG/Manfrotto_368B_368B_Basic_Black_Light.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/252212-REG/Manfrotto_649_649_Quick_Action_Release.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/546540-REG/Manfrotto_099B_3_Section_Extension_Pole_35.html

The wife usually travels with me but I thinking to gain experience I'm going to have to seek some local small venues to practice capturing and I'm thinking she's going to pass on the opportunity.  haha  I'm going to have to link up with a tape buddy for sure.   Appreciate the links, actually I've been visualizing sitting in my floor seat Row L center for Willie Nelson, with a recorder on my lap and something similar to the extension pole being held between my legs and extended upward when the lights dim as the music starts. LOL

Welcome, from another Team NCer!

Come find us here:  http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=157700.msg2016565#new

We are a fairly large group, and very friendly... 

Terry

Terry, thanks, I'll definitely check out the thread and look forward to meeting some of my fellow carolinian tapers. :)

I guess it's a matter of choice / preference and the DR2D is less than half the price and if he plans to do any 4 channel (generally SBD / AUD) recordings, it makes sense. I have both and I only have used the DR2D a couple of times (just got it recently), so I haven't become nearly as familiar with it as the M10. So yeah, there are pros and cons for sure. I just prefer the M10 so far for 2 channel recording, but it may just be a learning curve with the DR2D. I know plenty of folks like it and will vouch for it. And having something for less than half the price and I don't think a whole lot of recording quality sacrifice (not any as far as I know but I haven't done any comps)  plus the ability to run 4 chan (two 2 chan sources and have the synched and time aligned) if needed would make it attractive. I just prefer the interface and build quality of the M10 - so at this point, it is my preference for 2 chan recording.

And one reason I'm not high on the DR2D is that it died after less than 2 hours and about half-way through the main act the last time I used it. Was using the same NiMH re-cyclable batteries that I run all the time in the M10 - got a set of 4, so I had 2 in each recorder) - I think the M10 still showed full on the battery meter. I was running SBD + mics, but luckily was running only one source (SBD) into the DR2D (and the feed was pretty bad - would probably not have used it anyway, so it didn't even hack me off like it would have if I had wished I had it).

I bought the DR2D for just this occaision but more than anything, I didn't trust my familiarity with it enough to run both sources into it and didn't have a good feel for it's battery life (guess I found out). I'm glad I didn't run both into the DR2D, because I would have completely missed the second half of the show. That being said, it is on the original SW that it came with (had just gotten it a few days before - when I checked it after this happened it was ver 1.something, not sure what the latest is). I think the early SW versions did have a battery life problem. I haven't gotten around to figuring out if I have the latest SW and if not how to upgrade it... Haven't had another chance at a SBD+AUD since this happened, but something I need to do.

Maybe some folks that have the DR2D and were smart enough to update the SW before they used it can comment on the battery life with the latest SW. And if anyone knows the latest version and how to upgrade to it, I wouldn't mind a PM;)

Again - to the original OP, welcome and I hope this hobby is as rewarding for you as I think it is for most of us. One of many choices you'll have to make. Sounds like you've been reading the right threads to make an informed decision.


But with the DR2D on sale for $90, and the option of going 4 channel, is the M-10 really the way to go?
Quote
Well, OK - completely lied. Rather mis-remembered. I paid $149 for the DR2D new. Just found the confirmation email when I bought it a few months ago. Bought it somewhere on Amazon. I did notice in looking that it's "no longer available" at B&H and Sweetwater, so if you want to go that route and you want it new, you should probably grab one now while you can still find one. That usually means they are no longer in production, I think.
Brad - great information and great points.  No worries, I just didn't know if you knew a vendor that had it for $90, I'd have been all over it I think.  But even the $149 doesn't seem bad at all.  I read earlier today the DR2D is out of production so yea, I guess that explains the dropping price and limited availability (another reason I thought of grabbing it).  I'm kind of leaning toward the M10 though, but the price on the 2D is hard to pass up. Thanks for the welcome!

No affiliation, but wanted to throw this out as well.  Here's a pair of Berliner CM33's on eBay for $300.  I've heard some damn good tapes with those little bad dogs.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Berliner-CM33-Stereo-Microphones-in-Wood-Box-Made-for-Neumann-KM-184-/111001984035?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Microphones&hash=item19d83bdc23

Thanks for the heads up!  I'll check those out.  My head has been swimming in mic reading tonight. LOL

Welcome.

I have had similar experience in the last few months or year getting back into taping, and I went through a similar process of starting small, and ending where I did, which is with a relatively conservative rig, but that offers excellent quality for the money, and I have made some great tapes.

I originally ran a Tascam Dr07mkii recorder, using Church Audio CA14 cardioids or omnis, along with the plain old ugly 9 volt battery box. I made some great tapes to my ears with this rig, both open and stealth. I had bought a relatively inexpensive Impact mic stand and a few cables to run open with.

I then bought a Naiant Tinybox to use as a preamp, and the recordings improved quite a bit using the same mics.

The next purchase was a set of Busman BSC1 mics with cardioid, omni and hypercardioid capsules. This was the last step in my taping rig, giving me a solid rig for almost any situation. All in, I am probably at about 1k for the whole thing.

I also have a Tascam Dr2d which I use for 4 channel recording (2 from a soundboard, and 2 from mics). Great little recorder!

If you have a budget of about $500, for a little more you could probably get a set of CA14 mics, a Naiant Tinybox, and the DR2d, which will allow for 2 or 4 channel recording. People have a huge crush on the Sony machine around here, but I honestly don't see what it would provide to me over the rig I put together, aside from  a longer battery life, which isn't really an issue for me. With the CA14s, your Dr2d, and a battery box you'll be able to pull some great recordings. Add in the Tinybox and you're going to be even happier, but it is a bit of an expense.

Good luck and have fun!

Collin - thanks and I appreciate all the information equipment suggestions!  Like you point out, the battery life has been the only real issue I've learned about the DR2D, but it doesn't seem like to significant enough that it would be a show stopper.  The CA14 mics, a Naiant Tinybox are definitely looking pretty good right.  I'm thinking my initial start up budget is going to end up being wishful thoughtfulness on my part. haha  At least I can tell the wife, honey, honest, at least I did start out putting a limit on this project/hobby. LOL  I constantly catch hell because I tend to go overboard with things I get into.

http://www.naiant.com

If you buy from Jon, you are buying from a fellow NCer...

Terry

Terry - Thanks!  I'll definitely have to contact Jon as I work through putting a kit together. 

All of you are definitely amazing and I can't thank you enough for the insight and sharing of information.  I certainly appreciate the warm welcome!
Mics: AKG C460B, ck61/ck63, Naiant Actives/PFAs, AT835 cards/hypers (4.7 mod), CA-11 Croakies
Pre/BB: GD Lunatech V3, CA-9200, UA5, SD USBPre2, Neumenn BS48i-2
Decks: Roland R-44, Marantz PMD661 (OCM), Sony PCM-M10

Marshall7

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2013, 01:58:42 AM »
One thing to consider if you end up going over budget...if things don't work out and you decide not to stay with taping, if you've bought good gear to begin with you'll have no problem recouping a good portion of the cost in the Yard Sale.

Dennis

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2013, 02:08:46 AM »
Welcome to TS and Team NC! Definitely stop by on the team board and say hi.

Church has a January sale going on right now, beware of the lead times as others have mentioned:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=159385.0

I would consider the CA11s too, I like their sound better. You should listen to some recordings at the Live Music Archive and form your own opinion.

There's also an M10 in the yard sale:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=160153.0

A battery box + mics from Church + M10 puts you right around your budget, and you'll make nice tapes right out of the gate.
Mics: 3 Zigma Chi HA-FX (COL-251, c, h, o-d, o-f) / Avenson STO-2 / Countryman B3s
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Decks: Roland R-44 / Sony PCM-M10
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Offline yltfan

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2013, 02:10:46 AM »
The DR2D was $90 at Musician's Friend a week ago, but seems to be no longer available at that price.
Mics: AT4051, AT4053, KM140, AKG C414, Beyerdynamic MEM86 guns, Nak cm300, AT853 4.7mod
Pre: V3, CA-9100
Recorders: Busman DR-680, iRivers, minidisc, jb3, and DAT

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Offline JusTapin

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2013, 01:54:45 PM »
One thing to consider if you end up going over budget...if things don't work out and you decide not to stay with taping, if you've bought good gear to begin with you'll have no problem recouping a good portion of the cost in the Yard Sale.

Dennis

Dennis, great point, thanks!

Welcome to TS and Team NC! Definitely stop by on the team board and say hi.

Church has a January sale going on right now, beware of the lead times as others have mentioned:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=159385.0

I would consider the CA11s too, I like their sound better. You should listen to some recordings at the Live Music Archive and form your own opinion.

There's also an M10 in the yard sale:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=160153.0

A battery box + mics from Church + M10 puts you right around your budget, and you'll make nice tapes right out of the gate.

Bryon, thanks and I'll definitely stop by the team board.  Appreciate you taking the time to post the links.  I was looking at the M10 in the YS.  I'm really warming up the Audix mics listed there the more I read about them.  They tape I listened to of them sounds great, although, they're a little over budget, but what momma don't know, won't hurt her. haha

The DR2D was $90 at Musician's Friend a week ago, but seems to be no longer available at that price.

If I can catch the DR2D on sale for that again I'm definitely going to buy it, if for nothing else just to have.  For that price or even the actual $149 everyone is blowing them out at doesn't seem bad at all considering.  Thinking I'm going to go with the M10 to start because it may be a little easier for me to pick up on right out of the box. 
Mics: AKG C460B, ck61/ck63, Naiant Actives/PFAs, AT835 cards/hypers (4.7 mod), CA-11 Croakies
Pre/BB: GD Lunatech V3, CA-9200, UA5, SD USBPre2, Neumenn BS48i-2
Decks: Roland R-44, Marantz PMD661 (OCM), Sony PCM-M10

Offline ravingandrooling

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2013, 04:58:58 PM »
B&H is moving the M10 (black only) at $199.  It is listed at $249 but once added to your cart price is lower.  Free shipping too.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=sony+m10&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma&Top+Nav-Search=
Mics:  CA14 (c,o,sc), AT943 (c/h)
Power: UBB x2, CA9100, CA9200
Recorder: Sony M10 x2

Offline JusTapin

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2013, 05:12:33 PM »
B&H is moving the M10 (black only) at $199.  It is listed at $249 but once added to your cart price is lower.  Free shipping too.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=sony+m10&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma&Top+Nav-Search=

Thanks for the heads up!  I've loaded the M10 in the cart and while waiting for the site maintenance to be completed at 6:15, I thought I'd check some other items.  They are offering the D50 for $399!!  Now of course bigger decisions for a newbie who is almost blind from reading so much. LOL  Now I'll have to really consider pulling the trigger on the D50 for that price.  My $500 budget was a starting point and just a mark on the wall after all. haha

So now do I get it over with and just get the D50?
Mics: AKG C460B, ck61/ck63, Naiant Actives/PFAs, AT835 cards/hypers (4.7 mod), CA-11 Croakies
Pre/BB: GD Lunatech V3, CA-9200, UA5, SD USBPre2, Neumenn BS48i-2
Decks: Roland R-44, Marantz PMD661 (OCM), Sony PCM-M10

Offline ravingandrooling

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2013, 05:46:32 PM »
Personally, I think that microphones are the most important piece of the puzzle.  If it was me, I'd get the M10 and let the mic's be the "budget breaker".  Good luck..
Mics:  CA14 (c,o,sc), AT943 (c/h)
Power: UBB x2, CA9100, CA9200
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Offline LikeASong

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2013, 05:50:33 PM »
In my opinion and experience, most efforts & budget should be spent on a good mics + [preamp/battery box] combo, with the recorder being the less "improvable" step. I don't think your starting tapes will be much better getting a D50 than getting any of the portable recorders that have been suggested before, like the DR2D or the M10 (I suggest the Roland R05, unexpensive and reliable, as an alteranative to those 2 as well), but you would/will have quite a lot less budget left to invest on a good pair of mics and power supply. Just my 2 cents of course :)  And welcome to the wonderful world of taping!
The worst things in the world are justified by belief.
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After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music.
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Offline JusTapin

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2013, 06:07:37 PM »
Personally, I think that microphones are the most important piece of the puzzle.  If it was me, I'd get the M10 and let the mic's be the "budget breaker".  Good luck..

In my opinion and experience, most efforts & budget should be spent on a good mics + [preamp/battery box] combo, with the recorder being the less "improvable" step. I don't think your starting tapes will be much better getting a D50 than getting any of the portable recorders that have been suggested before, like the DR2D or the M10 (I suggest the Roland R05, unexpensive and reliable, as an alteranative to those 2 as well), but you would/will have quite a lot less budget left to invest on a good pair of mics and power supply. Just my 2 cents of course :)  And welcome to the wonderful world of taping!

Guess I just overly excited when I seen the D50 at that price point and wasn't sure if it'd be worth having for down the road as I learn more.  I appreciate both of your replies,  they brought me back to reality and enforced the fact the most important piece of the puzzle at this point are the mics, especially knowing the previously mentioned decks are more than sufficient to capture with.  Thanks!

With the M10 marked down to $199 think I'll just go with it and continue my search for the rest.  Thanks again!
Mics: AKG C460B, ck61/ck63, Naiant Actives/PFAs, AT835 cards/hypers (4.7 mod), CA-11 Croakies
Pre/BB: GD Lunatech V3, CA-9200, UA5, SD USBPre2, Neumenn BS48i-2
Decks: Roland R-44, Marantz PMD661 (OCM), Sony PCM-M10

Offline LikeASong

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2013, 06:36:38 PM »
Personally, I think that microphones are the most important piece of the puzzle.  If it was me, I'd get the M10 and let the mic's be the "budget breaker".  Good luck..

In my opinion and experience, most efforts & budget should be spent on a good mics + [preamp/battery box] combo, with the recorder being the less "improvable" step. I don't think your starting tapes will be much better getting a D50 than getting any of the portable recorders that have been suggested before, like the DR2D or the M10 (I suggest the Roland R05, unexpensive and reliable, as an alteranative to those 2 as well), but you would/will have quite a lot less budget left to invest on a good pair of mics and power supply. Just my 2 cents of course :)  And welcome to the wonderful world of taping!

Guess I just overly excited when I seen the D50 at that price point and wasn't sure if it'd be worth having for down the road as I learn more.  I appreciate both of your replies,  they brought me back to reality and enforced the fact the most important piece of the puzzle at this point are the mics, especially knowing the previously mentioned decks are more than sufficient to capture with.  Thanks!

With the M10 marked down to $199 think I'll just go with it and continue my search for the rest.  Thanks again!

Sure the D50 would be worth having down the road, but at this starting point I'd stick with a smaller, simpler and cheaper recording able to handle similar situations than the monster D50 ;D I mean, I started taping with a minidisc (remember those small gizmos? yeah) and didn't notice any improvement in my recordings when I upgraded to a portable recording. I only noticed the improvement when I upgraded my mics! Mic type, quality and placement are the main keys of this hobby in my humble opinion - and the recorder doesn't have anything to do with any of these factors! ;)
The worst things in the world are justified by belief.
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After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music.
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Offline yltfan

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2013, 07:11:03 PM »
Pardon my ignorance, but why so excited about the D50? I'd think if you were going to spend that much on a recorder, wouldn't you want one with phantom power and xlr inputs, like the pmd661, or the tascam dr100 mkII?

Someone else mentioned the R-05. I use that for lo-pro, and it's great, very reliable. If you can find a good deal on one...

But--as everyone is saying--the mics are more important. Focus on that.
Mics: AT4051, AT4053, KM140, AKG C414, Beyerdynamic MEM86 guns, Nak cm300, AT853 4.7mod
Pre: V3, CA-9100
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Offline LikeASong

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2013, 08:01:39 PM »
Pardon my ignorance, but why so excited about the D50? I'd think if you were going to spend that much on a recorder, wouldn't you want one with phantom power and xlr inputs, like the pmd661, or the tascam dr100 mkII?

Someone else mentioned the R-05. I use that for lo-pro, and it's great, very reliable. If you can find a good deal on one...

But--as everyone is saying--the mics are more important. Focus on that.

Yeah, it was me who mentioned the R05, as reliable as the M10 and quite cheaper, which is something that doesn't seem to worry the opening poster much anyway :P ;D The D50 is surely a big piece of gear that has quite a lot of appeal to the eye, but there are better recorders in its price range out there as you mention, specially the DR100mkII. Anyway, I think that a basic recorder (aka DR2D, R05, M10) plus a pair of mics and their power supply should be more than enough for a starter rig. Moreover, when you get taping-confidence and/or grow tired of that gear you can add new stuff, but you don't have to substitute anything - you can still use that old gear in particular situations :)
The worst things in the world are justified by belief.
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After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music.
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Offline JusTapin

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2013, 08:02:44 PM »
Sure the D50 would be worth having down the road, but at this starting point I'd stick with a smaller, simpler and cheaper recording able to handle similar situations than the monster D50 ;D I mean, I started taping with a minidisc (remember those small gizmos? yeah) and didn't notice any improvement in my recordings when I upgraded to a portable recording. I only noticed the improvement when I upgraded my mics! Mic type, quality and placement are the main keys of this hobby in my humble opinion - and the recorder doesn't have anything to do with any of these factors! ;)

And this is exactly why I appreciate everyones input and your willingness to help out a newbie, thanks!  I realize now with what you've said and what I've been reading today about the mics being one of the most important components of the entire rig.   

Pardon my ignorance, but why so excited about the D50? I'd think if you were going to spend that much on a recorder, wouldn't you want one with phantom power and xlr inputs, like the pmd661, or the tascam dr100 mkII?

Someone else mentioned the R-05. I use that for lo-pro, and it's great, very reliable. If you can find a good deal on one...

But--as everyone is saying--the mics are more important. Focus on that.

Sorry, it was just the newbie ignorance in me shinning through. :)  It just seemed like a great price for what is normally a $500 recorder I guess...but then as you've pointed out I didn't even realize the the other capabilities such as XLR inputs and the 48V phantom power that I suppose should probably be expected when moving up into the higher price range of recorders.  I've realized now thanks to you, the others and what I've been reading today that the mics are critical and at this point for me the most important thing now knowing I don't necessarily have to have a high end recorder. 

I'm going to review my options with the recorders further before decided and I've narrowed my list down to the M10, R-05, DR-2D and DR-40.  Of those 4, all are very affordable and will accomplish everything I need at this point.  There are just so many with each seemingly offering something the other doesn't.

Thanks to each of you, your input and patience is greatly appreciated.
Mics: AKG C460B, ck61/ck63, Naiant Actives/PFAs, AT835 cards/hypers (4.7 mod), CA-11 Croakies
Pre/BB: GD Lunatech V3, CA-9200, UA5, SD USBPre2, Neumenn BS48i-2
Decks: Roland R-44, Marantz PMD661 (OCM), Sony PCM-M10

Offline LikeASong

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2013, 08:11:43 PM »
We all have been newbies at some point (some of us still are in fact ;D), so don't worry about asking and being advised. You have a great predisposition and lots of apettite for learning - which is great. Best of lucks and keep us posted as to what you decide eventually, etc :)
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After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music.
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Offline fmaderjr

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #32 on: January 20, 2013, 09:49:02 AM »
In my opinion and experience, most efforts & budget should be spent on a good mics + [preamp/battery box] combo, with the recorder being the less "improvable" step. I don't think your starting tapes will be much better getting a D50 than getting any of the portable recorders that have been suggested before, like the DR2D or the M10 (I suggest the Roland R05, unexpensive and reliable, as an alteranative to those 2 as well), but you would/will have quite a lot less budget left to invest on a good pair of mics and power supply. Just my 2 cents of course :)  And welcome to the wonderful world of taping!

I agree 100%, although I don't recommend getting one of the really cheap recorders that is little discussed here (which may be inclined to overload too easily and spoil your recordings). As long as you use a recorder that has gotten positive reviews here you should be fine. I don't see an advantage to getting an M50 over and M10 (I have used both) unless you have to use the internal mics. An R05 or M10 with a properly configured tinybox and good plug in power mics like Ca14's or AT853's would be a great way to start out. You'll probably want to add and extension cable and a stand too if you are doing open recordings in venues where you can set up the stand. Then you 'd be all set to add phantom powered mics like the Busman BCS1's or active BCS2's when you are ready.
AT853's (all caps)/CM-300 Franken Naks (CP-1,2,3)/JBMod Nak 700's (CP-701,702) > Tascam DR-680
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Offline JusTapin

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2013, 09:29:58 PM »
After much reading and deliberation with the voices in my head (haha) and some help from acidjack (thanks!) I made a decision today to increase my budget a little. >:D  Y'all said spend all my money on mics, so I DID! LOL  The first part of my rig is a pair of used AGK C460 B mics with CK61 caps.  They've been tested and come with a guarantee.  They also come with Audio Technica AT8410a shock mounts and a Neumann BS48i-2 power supply.  ;D 



We all have been newbies at some point (some of us still are in fact ;D), so don't worry about asking and being advised. You have a great predisposition and lots of apettite for learning - which is great. Best of lucks and keep us posted as to what you decide eventually, etc :)

LikeASong, thanks!  I've got to say of the many forums I've been a part of or more accurately a newbie of over the years, I've got to say everyone I've encountered here so far has been nothing but patient, helpful and friendly.  To me that says a lot for this hobby and the caliber of folks here at TS.  I'm definitely grateful and so appreciative because on many forums newbies are either flamed or worse, ignored all together.

In my opinion and experience, most efforts & budget should be spent on a good mics + [preamp/battery box] combo, with the recorder being the less "improvable" step. I don't think your starting tapes will be much better getting a D50 than getting any of the portable recorders that have been suggested before, like the DR2D or the M10 (I suggest the Roland R05, unexpensive and reliable, as an alteranative to those 2 as well), but you would/will have quite a lot less budget left to invest on a good pair of mics and power supply. Just my 2 cents of course :)  And welcome to the wonderful world of taping!

I agree 100%, although I don't recommend getting one of the really cheap recorders that is little discussed here (which may be inclined to overload too easily and spoil your recordings). As long as you use a recorder that has gotten positive reviews here you should be fine. I don't see an advantage to getting an M50 over and M10 (I have used both) unless you have to use the internal mics. An R05 or M10 with a properly configured tinybox and good plug in power mics like Ca14's or AT853's would be a great way to start out. You'll probably want to add and extension cable and a stand too if you are doing open recordings in venues where you can set up the stand. Then you 'd be all set to add phantom powered mics like the Busman BCS1's or active BCS2's when you are ready.

fmaderjr - Thanks for your input.  That's one of my biggest fears getting into this hobby with no experience or knowledge to this point, well, other than a boat load of reading I've been trying to do.  But there are things you just can't know by reading and you've got to learn by either just doing it and/or obviously being around others who are willing to share their experiences and knowledge.  That why I have found TS so invaluable!  And is why I value your's and the other's input because this is an expensive hobby and those oh crap impulse buys can turn into very costly mistakes as I've learned that lesson the hard way in other hobbies I've gotten involved with over the years. 

Having said all that I haven't yet made my final decision on which deck to get yet.  Every time I think I have my list down to two, I read or see something and spend an hour or what seems like days now researching it....like the 20 page review thread I read started by tonedeaf on the DR-100MKII. lol   What a great review he and other members put together on that deck!  But for now I'm still stuck on the M10, DR-40 and R-05, kind of in that order.  I think tonight I'm going to lay out the pros and cons of each on paper and see if I can't make a decision.  I think either of 3 would serve my purpose for now and I can upgrade if need be down the road.
Mics: AKG C460B, ck61/ck63, Naiant Actives/PFAs, AT835 cards/hypers (4.7 mod), CA-11 Croakies
Pre/BB: GD Lunatech V3, CA-9200, UA5, SD USBPre2, Neumenn BS48i-2
Decks: Roland R-44, Marantz PMD661 (OCM), Sony PCM-M10

Offline LikeASong

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2013, 06:05:28 AM »
Well, dude, that's some KILLER starting rig, although I've only seen that mics in studio setups, never in field/concert recordings. Nevertheless, if you've been advised by acidjack I thoroughly believe you've made a great decission :)
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Offline JusTapin

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2013, 10:51:45 AM »
Well, dude, that's some KILLER starting rig, although I've only seen that mics in studio setups, never in field/concert recordings. Nevertheless, if you've been advised by acidjack I thoroughly believe you've made a great decission :)

He's been a great help, although, I've also used several sources here and online in researching the AGK C460Bs which also helped in making my final decision.  Seems resale on them is descent and I'm having thoughts of possibly selling the Neumann and going with maybe one of the boxes from Naiant or I guess it depends too if I try one of the decks which provides phantom power etc.  I listened to a lot of taped material at Archive.org that was recorded at different venues so they seemed pretty versatile, I thought.  Also what really sealed the deal was when I found some flac files of my favorite band (Dave Matthews Band) that were taped using these.  ;D

Now if I can decide on a deck!  I need to hurry up because I'm hoping to get some practice in before Tim Reynolds TR3 plays up in Raleigh Feb 8, which I am hoping is my first taping.   
Mics: AKG C460B, ck61/ck63, Naiant Actives/PFAs, AT835 cards/hypers (4.7 mod), CA-11 Croakies
Pre/BB: GD Lunatech V3, CA-9200, UA5, SD USBPre2, Neumenn BS48i-2
Decks: Roland R-44, Marantz PMD661 (OCM), Sony PCM-M10

Offline Todd R

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2013, 11:02:50 AM »
I wrote this as part of a pm already, but I'd recommend a Marantz PMD661, Tascam DR100 mkii, Roland R26, or the older Fostex FR2LE -- one of the all-in-one recorders that provides P48.  Then decide down the road whether to get an external preamp.

Personally, I'd go with the Roland R26 based on the strength of the R44 which I owned, the strength of Acidjack's review, and it's ability to run 4ch if you ever want to go that route.  Clearly, lots and lots of choices though, and lots of perfectly good paths to start on.
Mics: Microtech Gefell m20/m21 (nbob/pfa actives), Line Audio CM3, Church CA-11 cards
Preamp:  none <sniff>
Recorders:  Sound Devices MixPre-6, Sony PCM-M10, Zoom H4nPro

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2013, 11:30:47 AM »
Now if I can decide on a deck!  I need to hurry up because I'm hoping to get some practice in before Tim Reynolds TR3 plays up in Raleigh Feb 8, which I am hoping is my first taping.

Where/when is that? I'm in Raleigh, and I might be able to come out.
Mics: 3 Zigma Chi HA-FX (COL-251, c, h, o-d, o-f) / Avenson STO-2 / Countryman B3s
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Offline fmaderjr

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2013, 11:31:45 AM »
I'm having thoughts of possibly selling the Neumann and going with maybe one of the boxes from Naiant or I guess it depends too if I try one of the decks which provides phantom power etc. 

That's what I would do. I know I'll get ripped for this, but I was shocked to find out that the Neumanns cost something like $1150 new and only provide phantom power. If you are trying to build a great sounding rig while balancing that with frugality, I wouldn't think that would be one of your first choices, no matter how good it is.

People here have had great success recording with the Naiant Tinybox (around $250-$300 I think) to power their mics and it provides gain and other optional features as well as phantom power. I have a Naiant Littlebox (the Tinybox's larger predecessor, and love it). I doubt if your recordings would be audibly better with the Neumann (and at times the Tinybox could actually be better for quieter sources due the its available gain), but that's only my own opinion without having heard comparisons, of course.

If you go for a Tinybox, an M10 or R-05 is probably a better choice for your recorder than a DR-40. You don't need a recorder with phantom power since the Tinybox provides that, and the M10 and R-05 are smaller than the DR-40 with better battery life.
AT853's (all caps)/CM-300 Franken Naks (CP-1,2,3)/JBMod Nak 700's (CP-701,702) > Tascam DR-680
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Offline JusTapin

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2013, 12:21:24 PM »
I wrote this as part of a pm already, but I'd recommend a Marantz PMD661, Tascam DR100 mkii, Roland R26, or the older Fostex FR2LE -- one of the all-in-one recorders that provides P48.  Then decide down the road whether to get an external preamp.

Personally, I'd go with the Roland R26 based on the strength of the R44 which I owned, the strength of Acidjack's review, and it's ability to run 4ch if you ever want to go that route.  Clearly, lots and lots of choices though, and lots of perfectly good paths to start on.

Todd - thanks for the pm's and information.  I know in the beginning I was trying to keep a low budget, but I'm just not sure now considering I've blown my keep a low budget concept right out of the water with one purchase. LOL  And now that I've done that, I've been thinking of the bigger recorders primarily because of the P48 and xlr jacks and the fact that I won't be (hopefully) itching to upgrade in the near term. Decisions!
 
Now if I can decide on a deck!  I need to hurry up because I'm hoping to get some practice in before Tim Reynolds TR3 plays up in Raleigh Feb 8, which I am hoping is my first taping.

Where/when is that? I'm in Raleigh, and I might be able to come out.

Bryon - That'd be great!  TR3 is playing at the Southland Ballroom, 614 N West St, February 8th.  I'm not at all familiar with the location.  I'm definitely going it's just a matter of whether I'll be taping or not. 

I'm having thoughts of possibly selling the Neumann and going with maybe one of the boxes from Naiant or I guess it depends too if I try one of the decks which provides phantom power etc. 

That's what I would do. I know I'll get ripped for this, but I was shocked to find out that the Neumanns cost something like $1150 new and only provide phantom power. If you are trying to build a great sounding rig while balancing that with frugality, I wouldn't think that would be one of your first choices, no matter how good it is.

People here have had great success recording with the Naiant Tinybox (around $250-$300 I think) to power their mics and it provides gain and other optional features as well as phantom power. I have a Naiant Littlebox (the Tinybox's larger predecessor, and love it). I doubt if your recordings would be audibly better with the Neumann (and at times the Tinybox could actually be better for quieter sources due the its available gain), but that's only my own opinion without having heard comparisons, of course.

If you go for a Tinybox, an M10 or R-05 is probably a better choice for your recorder than a DR-40. You don't need a recorder with phantom power since the Tinybox provides that, and the M10 and R-05 are smaller than the DR-40 with better battery life.


fmaderjr - yeah, I'm obviously not really at all familiar with the Neumann other than knowing it's more than I'd have paid for it new when there are the other options which are less expensive that would probably perform as good or better.  My dilemma right now is I'm not 100% sure which connectors (thinking xlrs from the pictures) are on the mics I just bought and not knowing enough about using connector adapters and whether I'll have time to order new cables/connectors or a Littlebox etc, I've been leaning towards a deck that has onboard phantom power and the xlr jacks.  Also, because I'm thinking I wouldn't need to upgrade the deck in the near term.  So that obviously limits the field greatly and then brings the deck battery life into the equation and decision process as well.  Not at all saying anything negative about the decks that don't have those two options, and I suppose just not knowing is why I haven't made my mind up on the deck yet or just exactly which direction I'm going to proceed.  Thanks for the idea's though, I'm definitely trying to understand, learn and weigh all the million options.
Mics: AKG C460B, ck61/ck63, Naiant Actives/PFAs, AT835 cards/hypers (4.7 mod), CA-11 Croakies
Pre/BB: GD Lunatech V3, CA-9200, UA5, SD USBPre2, Neumenn BS48i-2
Decks: Roland R-44, Marantz PMD661 (OCM), Sony PCM-M10

Offline Todd R

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #40 on: January 21, 2013, 01:55:35 PM »
Of course, now I've got Jon also saying to get an all-in-one recorder, and I'm thinking of recanting.

I didn't realize the Neumann supply you got with that ebay auction was a battery supply, I thought it was AC.  If you already have a battery operated phantom supply, getting a used Sony M10 might make some sense.  They have good built-in gain (preamp) and are low noise.  Pick up a used one for $200 or under, and use it with your Neumann supply and AKG mics.

If you want to upgrade later, given how easy it is to resell used M10's, you can then sell the M10 and the Neumann supply.  Then you can get going with taping for only another $200, and the M10 is quite acceptable.  Decide afterwards what you want from sound, amount of money into the hobby, tradeoffs of size vs flexibility vs sound vs cost, etc.

I'm sure you could resell the M10 for $175 or so, so you'd only be out $25 for the first round rig should you decide to upgrade.
Mics: Microtech Gefell m20/m21 (nbob/pfa actives), Line Audio CM3, Church CA-11 cards
Preamp:  none <sniff>
Recorders:  Sound Devices MixPre-6, Sony PCM-M10, Zoom H4nPro

Offline fatstratcat

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2013, 02:08:26 PM »
...I've been visualizing sitting in my floor seat Row L center for Willie Nelson, with a recorder on my lap and something similar to the extension pole being held between my legs and extended upward when the lights dim as the music starts. LOL
I'll be behind you to your right running  CA-11 > CA 9200 > M10.
Mics: AT933 w/ AT853 caps (cards, subcards, omnis) / Primo EM172 omnis (4.7k mod)
Bars: AT933 ORTF μBar, AT853 ORTF Active-style bar, fatstratcat DIN bar, 32" omni bar
Pre: Church Audio 3-Wire Ugly II / Church Audio Ugly Battery Box
Recorders: Sony PCM-M10 / Edirol R-09

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2013, 03:18:28 PM »
I would say go with a cheaper all in one as well. That's all you need for now and can add a preamp later on if so desired
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
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Offline JusTapin

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #43 on: January 21, 2013, 05:15:35 PM »
C460s are phantom-powered XLR out mics.  I would also go for an all-in-one.  You don't have time to get a tinybox before Feb. 8, so that will probably further influence your decision.

The tinybox/M10 crowd is usually interested in flexibility, so they aren't necessarily always running the tinybox--they might run mini-mics direct or with a battery box on other occasions.  And almost half of tinyboxes are sold to support "active" capsule configurations, where the mic body isn't used and phantom power is thus not required.  The advantage there is smaller footprint up on the stand and much lower power consumption which yields very long runtime.  An active tinybox-M10 setup could run all day.

The C460s are very efficient mics though, so your runtime will be as good as it gets for a recorder with phantom.

Jon - thanks for your input and more technical information.  Learning the C460s were phontom-powered is what I think was pushing my thoughts more towards an all-in-one and it just kind of seemed just kind of seemed if I could get one with xlr jacks it would avoid the need for additional adapters or trying to figure that all out.  With an all-in-one I thought I could eliminate some of the initial learning curve by plugging mics directly into the deck and worry more with learning deck settings while picking up more knowledge as time goes on.  There's just SO much to learn! haha

I mulled over the bigger all-in-one decks until 4 this morning and then spent most of today trying to decide.  I really liked the Roland R-26 from the reviews I've read etc, but then the more I thought about the sticker price dipping into some of the expense of the other items I'm going to initial need, ie, clamps, stand, bag etc, I settled for now on the DR-40.  It was nearly $15 cheaper yet this afternoon went I checked online so I ordered it through Amazon for a mere $124 shipped.  Figure if nothing else, I'll buy a little of time to learn more and to learn more about some of the bigger decks before spending $400 or $500.  From what I've read the DR-40 will probably serve my purpose for now and if it doesn't, I'm not out a lot of money and I can learn a little bit about settings in the mean time.


Of course, now I've got Jon also saying to get an all-in-one recorder, and I'm thinking of recanting.

I didn't realize the Neumann supply you got with that ebay auction was a battery supply, I thought it was AC.  If you already have a battery operated phantom supply, getting a used Sony M10 might make some sense.  They have good built-in gain (preamp) and are low noise.  Pick up a used one for $200 or under, and use it with your Neumann supply and AKG mics.

If you want to upgrade later, given how easy it is to resell used M10's, you can then sell the M10 and the Neumann supply.  Then you can get going with taping for only another $200, and the M10 is quite acceptable.  Decide afterwards what you want from sound, amount of money into the hobby, tradeoffs of size vs flexibility vs sound vs cost, etc.

I'm sure you could resell the M10 for $175 or so, so you'd only be out $25 for the first round rig should you decide to upgrade.

Todd - I almost went this route.  With the excellent reviews and popularity of the M10 it was very difficult not to do so especially when B&H has them marked down to $199 right now for red or black.  I was just worried about rushing to figure out adapters or what have you to connect the mic xlr's etc and sort of got frustrated and went with what I "think" I know should hook right up with the DR-40.  I may still in the very near term go with an M10, in fact I still haven't completely given up on the notion of just ordering one now and seeing which I can learn easier etc.  As you say, given the M10 resale potential it wouldn't be much of a loss if any at all.

I'll be behind you to your right running  CA-11 > CA 9200 > M10.

Great to know someone else will be there taping, maybe we could meet up prior to the show.  I pm'd you.

I would say go with a cheaper all in one as well. That's all you need for now and can add a preamp later on if so desired

Thanks, your advice has definitely helped ease my mind a little since this it what I ended up doing after second guessing my decision all weekend. :)  I too am thinking with the DR-40 if nothing I can get in the game and learn.  Aside from the mic setup, it's minimal cost and if it doesn't work out or once I get comfortable understanding operating a deck, then I can figure out which to grow into. 
Mics: AKG C460B, ck61/ck63, Naiant Actives/PFAs, AT835 cards/hypers (4.7 mod), CA-11 Croakies
Pre/BB: GD Lunatech V3, CA-9200, UA5, SD USBPre2, Neumenn BS48i-2
Decks: Roland R-44, Marantz PMD661 (OCM), Sony PCM-M10

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #44 on: January 21, 2013, 06:39:53 PM »
I think youll b happy w that. If you can afford to, get a tinybox and youll b set
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Offline LikeASong

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #45 on: January 22, 2013, 02:54:16 PM »
If he gets a recorder with xlr phantom power (aka rather big recorder) I woulnd't get an additional piece of big gear (aka preamp) but a PFA instead, so he can still use the balanced xlr inputs but can use a pair of 3'5 microphones like the Church Audio or Naiant XXs or whatever without adding a preamp. Just my 0'02 though.
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Offline yltfan

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #46 on: January 22, 2013, 08:27:31 PM »
Not to confuse you, give you more options--but now that you've decided to blow your budget, and lean mostly toward open taping taping, you should look at the larger, multichannel all-in-ones, like the Edirol R-44 and the Tascam DR-680, (cause soon you will be wanting to get a board feed to mix with your 460's). The DR-680 can be found for less than $600 new, has 8 channels and does everything you could foreseeably want (p48, clean pres, xlr ins). The R-44 does the same, but is spendier and only 4 channels. There are other options out there in this category, but most are much more expensive.
Mics: AT4051, AT4053, KM140, AKG C414, Beyerdynamic MEM86 guns, Nak cm300, AT853 4.7mod
Pre: V3, CA-9100
Recorders: Busman DR-680, iRivers, minidisc, jb3, and DAT

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Offline acidjack

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #47 on: January 23, 2013, 10:29:37 AM »
Not to confuse you, give you more options--but now that you've decided to blow your budget, and lean mostly toward open taping taping, you should look at the larger, multichannel all-in-ones, like the Edirol R-44 and the Tascam DR-680, (cause soon you will be wanting to get a board feed to mix with your 460's). The DR-680 can be found for less than $600 new, has 8 channels and does everything you could foreseeably want (p48, clean pres, xlr ins). The R-44 does the same, but is spendier and only 4 channels. There are other options out there in this category, but most are much more expensive.

I don't disagree w/ you but I think the main band he tapes is DMB.  Clearly no need for or shot at a board feed for them.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #48 on: January 23, 2013, 04:21:16 PM »
I don't disagree w/ you but I think the main band he tapes is DMB.  Clearly no need for or shot at a board feed for them.

No need to spend $1000, either ;D

Offline JusTapin

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #49 on: January 23, 2013, 06:58:01 PM »
I am really excited and eager to learn and I'm sure once I start to gain a little confidence in what I'm doing, my equipment inventory will grow.  ;D  Right now though I've got to learn the basics because aside from using the old handheld or desktop cassette recorders I honestly don't have a clue and will be the first to say so. 

Sure I could have spent less to get started and I may have even taken the ol' mantra of investing mostly in your mics a little to serious! haha  No, though, I'm really hoping to dive deep into the hobby and get involved with the local scene which has some solid clubs and regional events so I can learn to use my equipment and in doing so also meet some local folks in the hobby.  Figure that'll also serve as some great practice to get ready for the bigger shows we travel to. 
Mics: AKG C460B, ck61/ck63, Naiant Actives/PFAs, AT835 cards/hypers (4.7 mod), CA-11 Croakies
Pre/BB: GD Lunatech V3, CA-9200, UA5, SD USBPre2, Neumenn BS48i-2
Decks: Roland R-44, Marantz PMD661 (OCM), Sony PCM-M10

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2013, 11:45:51 PM »
Damn right Justin. I'm sooooo happy you're so eager to learn. It's a wonderful hobby and I don't think ill ever quit. I've been recording since I was 14 yrs old in 1994 and with a kickass HQ rig since 1999! And I don't EVER see myself retiring!!!
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
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Marshall7

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #51 on: January 24, 2013, 07:32:59 PM »
Dean - one thing you really have going for you is you live in a state where there seems to be a good concentration of tapers, so getting advice at shows should be easy.  And you'll definitely want to get to this festival in Raleigh next year, where virtually every set was open recorded.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=157438.0

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #52 on: January 24, 2013, 09:09:39 PM »
Marshall - Thanks for the heads up on the Hopscotch festival!  It follows our weekend at The Gorge so that be a great weekends of music.  What an undertaking to plan and coordinate the video and audio coverage for 15 venues!  Looking forward to it.

The DR-40 arrived today! Feels like a nice solid deck, feels good in the hand.  Maneuvering around the menu's only took a few minutes to get the hang of, seems "kind of" straight forward...for now at least.  Hoping the mic's will arrive tomorrow or Saturday so I can start practicing. 
Mics: AKG C460B, ck61/ck63, Naiant Actives/PFAs, AT835 cards/hypers (4.7 mod), CA-11 Croakies
Pre/BB: GD Lunatech V3, CA-9200, UA5, SD USBPre2, Neumenn BS48i-2
Decks: Roland R-44, Marantz PMD661 (OCM), Sony PCM-M10

Offline chinariderstl

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #53 on: January 24, 2013, 10:17:33 PM »
Sweet man, nice score on the deck and nice score on the AKG's! Those are hot, you will make some nice tapes.

Make sure to check into Team AKG!

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=141495.0
Mics: Audio-Technica AT853's, Avantone CK-40 (Busman mod), Busman BSC1's, DPA 4022's, DPA 4060's
Pres: Apogee Mini-MP, Core Sound Battery Box
Decks: Sony PCM-M10, Tascam DR-2D, Tascam DR-680 (Busman mod)
Power: Initial RB-270, Naztech PB15000
LMA: http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Chris+Finn%22

Offline JusTapin

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #54 on: January 25, 2013, 06:10:10 PM »
Not to confuse you, give you more options--but now that you've decided to blow your budget, and lean mostly toward open taping taping, you should look at the larger, multichannel all-in-ones, like the Edirol R-44 and the Tascam DR-680, (cause soon you will be wanting to get a board feed to mix with your 460's). The DR-680 can be found for less than $600 new, has 8 channels and does everything you could foreseeably want (p48, clean pres, xlr ins). The R-44 does the same, but is spendier and only 4 channels. There are other options out there in this category, but most are much more expensive.

yltfan - I couldn't resist, I had to pick up a R-44.  >:D 

Sweet man, nice score on the deck and nice score on the AKG's! Those are hot, you will make some nice tapes.

Make sure to check into Team AKG!

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=141495.0


chinaridersti -Thanks, I hope so!  I've been learking through the pages over in the Team AKG thread.  A lot of great information!  I'm sure I'll be asking some typical newb stuff soon. lol


Alright, it felt like Christmas today when I got home from work!  Everything I've ordered (just about) was on the porch.  The mics only came with adapters for the Newman power supply and a 3' cable with an RCA connector on the power supply side so I can't plug them into that or the DR-40, yet.  I am trying to decide if I should go with a 15' or 25' set of cables?  I'll have the 11' stand, plus I have the 3 piece 92" ext pole, not that I intend to use them together, but I thought there may be time I'm not sure or if I had to clamp on to someone else's stand, I thought I may need the 25'ers.  Any recommendations?

Here I was all pumped up and happy, and then the debbie downer frowner walked into the house. haha  I'm not sure why she apparently thought I was joking about moving from fantasy to reality with my new hobby.  ???  I've only expressed my interest for a long time and even more so after the last few shows.  Anyway, she comes in from work, I've got my new quick release clamp (649) latched on to the in-table, mics flying on the 92" ext pole...all I needed was a beer in my hand.  Well, my setup on her in-table was probably really NOT a good move and didn't set the stage for my good time to go any further. LMAO  :facepalm:  After the look, she follows up with, "what are you doing, you are going to ruin going to shows now because you are going to be all anal about THAT!!!"  WTH???  Honey, trust me, I still plan on having a great time.   ;D  I think I'm going to go get some beer now. haha Just thought I'd share that with ya'll. Happy Friday everyone!
Mics: AKG C460B, ck61/ck63, Naiant Actives/PFAs, AT835 cards/hypers (4.7 mod), CA-11 Croakies
Pre/BB: GD Lunatech V3, CA-9200, UA5, SD USBPre2, Neumenn BS48i-2
Decks: Roland R-44, Marantz PMD661 (OCM), Sony PCM-M10

Offline acidjack

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #55 on: January 25, 2013, 07:23:39 PM »
15ft is pretty standard for cable and that is pretty high even for taping DMB (where I know people love to/need to run extremely high).  When I've run at 15ft I was sort of amazed how high it was.  I think the best bet is get some 15 footers from tgakidis or Darktrain (PM at those id's) and if you do a few shows and actually think you want to go even higher, buy some 10-15 foot additional cable.  25ft is pretty unwieldy to handle, even with their nice cables (I have some 25 footers, but that's only so I can combine several to make 100 footers....)
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #56 on: January 25, 2013, 11:24:19 PM »
acidjack - thanks for the clarification.  Agree, I don't think I'd have a need to go higher than 11' which seems pretty damn high. 
Mics: AKG C460B, ck61/ck63, Naiant Actives/PFAs, AT835 cards/hypers (4.7 mod), CA-11 Croakies
Pre/BB: GD Lunatech V3, CA-9200, UA5, SD USBPre2, Neumenn BS48i-2
Decks: Roland R-44, Marantz PMD661 (OCM), Sony PCM-M10

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #57 on: January 26, 2013, 10:09:27 PM »
I agree, just get a pair of custom 20' cables and youll be SET!!! Glad to hear you got everything. Sounds like youre going to start out pullin' DA HEAT!!!!!! Nice setup. My 1st mics were 480s :)
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Offline Jarguitar86

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #58 on: February 01, 2013, 12:45:27 PM »
I'm a fairly new taper with all of these same questions as well.  This has been the most helpful thread in trying to decide what initial setup gear I want to start with myself. Thanks to everyone for pitching in their two cents and being so generous sharing all their info!

Offline acidjack

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #59 on: February 01, 2013, 01:13:25 PM »
I'm a fairly new taper with all of these same questions as well.  This has been the most helpful thread in trying to decide what initial setup gear I want to start with myself. Thanks to everyone for pitching in their two cents and being so generous sharing all their info!

Welcome!  As everyone always says, please check your wallet at the door  >:D
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline db

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #60 on: February 01, 2013, 02:28:51 PM »
acidjack - thanks for the clarification.  Agree, I don't think I'd have a need to go higher than 11' which seems pretty damn high.

i have a 13' stand and a 7' extendoid i ran  for the dead in '09 in the big places. i'll knock off .5' and call it 19.5'... made a difference.

as for cable, 20' is a very standard studio length and not that onerous.

the average white/european drunk, loudmouth male, the archetype of the jamband taper woes, stands 5'7" > 5'10" placing its lite-beer-hole only 5' from your 11' elevated mics. an extra 8' won't eradicate his mating calls, but it can mute the general din.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 02:32:24 PM by db »
db

Offline JusTapin

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Re: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks
« Reply #61 on: February 02, 2013, 10:26:13 PM »
I agree, just get a pair of custom 20' cables and youll be SET!!! Glad to hear you got everything. Sounds like youre going to start out pullin' DA HEAT!!!!!! Nice setup. My 1st mics were 480s :)

I'm hoping so!  Just running a test on the Naztech battery tonight.  ;D  If these 460's are this clear in the field I'm going to be very happy for sure. 

I'm a fairly new taper with all of these same questions as well.  This has been the most helpful thread in trying to decide what initial setup gear I want to start with myself. Thanks to everyone for pitching in their two cents and being so generous sharing all their info!

Agree, there are some really great folks on here who are very willing to help out.  As you've already probably found there is a ton of information here as well, so much so, I think I need new glasses because I've about burnt my eyes out reading for hours and hours. lol  Welcome and good luck!

Welcome!  As everyone always says, please check your wallet at the door  >:D

Great advise right there!  ;D  I decided today while I had some down time I should create an inventory of my gear and I have no idea where I came up with my initial figures.  :facepalm:   
All I can think is I had read it somewhere and it sounded like a nice figure.  Although, I have ordered a lot of stuff I could have gotten into the hobby without having right now, however, it just kind of consumed me. LOL

i have a 13' stand and a 7' extendoid i ran  for the dead in '09 in the big places. i'll knock off .5' and call it 19.5'... made a difference.

as for cable, 20' is a very standard studio length and not that onerous.

the average white/european drunk, loudmouth male, the archetype of the jamband taper woes, stands 5'7" > 5'10" placing its lite-beer-hole only 5' from your 11' elevated mics. an extra 8' won't eradicate his mating calls, but it can mute the general din.

db - Thanks for the input!  I ordered a similar setup and have the 12' stand and the 3 piece extension pole that maxes out at 92 inches.  I know at the Philly DMB show in Dec there was someone running a 20' stand.  In fact I think it was the flac I downloaded and you could still here during the encore a couple people screaming over the beginning or ending of songs with their damn mating calls wanting to hear Last Stop.   Most of the stands I remember seeing at shows have probably been 12 to 15 feet.  The one in Philly really caught my eye though because it was only about 30' from the right stack in my line of view and I thought, damn, that's up there. 

Definitely can understand and see the advantages of trying to eliminate a lot of the chatter, especially those drunken mating calls.  >:D
« Last Edit: February 02, 2013, 10:37:43 PM by JusTapin »
Mics: AKG C460B, ck61/ck63, Naiant Actives/PFAs, AT835 cards/hypers (4.7 mod), CA-11 Croakies
Pre/BB: GD Lunatech V3, CA-9200, UA5, SD USBPre2, Neumenn BS48i-2
Decks: Roland R-44, Marantz PMD661 (OCM), Sony PCM-M10

 

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