Topic: Help in choosing preamp/microphones

[lprocks]

Hi there. First off I hope I am requesting help in the proper forum. I just recently purchased a Sony MZ-M100 Hi-MD recorder. My next purchase s for a preamp and binaural microphones. Are there any suggestions as to which ones would be the best fit without having to break the bank. 

thanks in advance.

[run_run_run]

Hi there. First off I hope I am requesting help in the proper forum. I just recently purchased a Sony MZ-M100 Hi-MD recorder. My next purchase s for a preamp and binaural microphones. Are there any suggestions as to which ones would be the best fit without having to break the bank. 

thanks in advance.

Chris Church on here sells good priced binaural microphones and pres.

[Brian Skalinder]

"Not break the bank" means different things to different people.  If you specify a budget, you may get more targeted responses.

[beathydrolysis]

I'd head over to the sound professionals website.  They have a great selection of preamps and gear for very reasonable prices.  I started with MD and that's where I got my mics and preamp from.

www.soundprofessionals.com

[beefstew]

I'd head over to the sound professionals website.  They have a great selection of preamps and gear for very reasonable prices.  I started with MD and that's where I got my mics and preamp from.

www.soundprofessionals.com

i also started with Hi-MD and soundproffesionals are awesome!

[lbgspam]

Question, does this MD do non-lossy recording?
I didn't know MD finally went non-lossy...

I would sell the MD and get a flash recorder such the Eridol R-09 personally as I just never trust MD since the original ones had lossy compression....

[RebelRebel]

hi-md is lossless.

[beefstew]

Question, does this MD do non-lossy recording?
I didn't know MD finally went non-lossy...

I would sell the MD and get a flash recorder such the Eridol R-09 personally as I just never trust MD since the original ones had lossy compression....

MD is lossy
Hi-MD is LOSSLESS

[RebelRebel]

which is what I said above..

MD is lossy
Hi-MD is LOSSLESS

[TNJazz]

MD is lossy
Hi-MD is LOSSLESS







 

[lbgspam]

How fast is the transfer to the computer from HIMD?

What's the advantage of an MD over the new SD Flash devices?

[RebelRebel]

MD is lossy
Hi-MD is LOSSLESS







 

[TNJazz]

How fast is the transfer to the computer from HIMD?

What's the advantage of an MD over the new SD Flash devices?

There is none.  If it says MD on it, buy something else.  That's all there is to it.

[dunebug81]

How fast is the transfer to the computer from HIMD?

What's the advantage of an MD over the new SD Flash devices?

There is none.  If it says MD on it, buy something else.  That's all there is to it.

...except for the fact that MD media cheaper then SD media.  $5 for a 1GB disc vs ~$35 for a 1GB card; smaller then anything else out there; optical in which the R9 doest have, stable firmware which the MT sorta has (after how many months?).  The only draw back I see to the MD is that you can only get 1GB discs (95 min per disc) which usually isnt a problem for most shows and the transfer is a little slower. Takes me about 20 min to transfer a 90 min show off my RH1.  You're obviously a hater and its doubtful that you have ever used a HIMD recorder.

[lprocks]

Thanks for all of the suggestions. The Hi-MD is lossless. I thought about the Edirol R09 and even a microtrak but settled on the MD recorder since I am a beginner and the cost wasn't so high.

[lbgspam]

...except for the fact that MD media cheaper then SD media.  $5 for a 1GB disc vs ~$35 for a 1GB card; smaller then anything else out there; optical in which the R9 doest have, stable firmware which the MT sorta has (after how many months?).  The only draw back I see to the MD is that you can only get 1GB discs (95 min per disc) which usually isnt a problem for most shows and the transfer is a little slower. Takes me about 20 min to transfer a 90 min show off my RH1.  You're obviously a hater and its doubtful that you have ever used a HIMD recorder.

Just an FYI:

1) I just got a 4gb SD from newegg, $59 after rebate.  Holds 4hrs of 24bit WAV recording. 

Since you need 1-2 MD/show your cost to run the mini disk will be higher in the long run (unless you plan to dump to DVDR or something like flash recorders do).

2)Sony Online prices the RH1 at $349.
Eridol R-09 is $340 delivered from where I got it.

 I assume you have a better place for the MZ-RH1 than I found.

3) I can transfer 4gb of data in 17 minutes off the SD card.

4) No arguement about the Microtrack -- it is why I got the R-09.  However, Microtrack owners say the current firmware has fixed all the past issues.

[dunebug81]

You have to compare apples to apples.  If you reuse the MD just like you would a CF/SD then per GB a MD is cheaper.  According to Sony a minidisc has over a 1 million write-rewrite cycles so using a few discs over and over again is possible.  I tend to use a new disc for every show but if Im out Ill erase I show that I taped years ago that hasnt been listened to since to put something new on it. 

You may have scored a deal on a card however I was doing a quick search on pricewatch and thats what I cam up with.  Granted it doesn't do 24 bit but that isn't an issue for me as I wouldnt run 24 bit anyway since I would have to dither it down to 16 bit to play it on my ipod / burn to CD for the car which is where I do about 90% of my listening.

Minidisco.com has the RH1 for $329.95 and there is a coupon for $20 off the RH1 or a 5% off coupon for an entire orderwhich would bring the unit down to about $310.00 + $8.00 for shipping.

A speedier transfer would be nice but the RH1 is well over twice as fast as the 1st and 2nd gen units and the speed limtations are from the unit having moving parts vs a solidstate media. Most shows I tape are only 70-80 min which only takes about 15 min to have it uploaded and opened up in soundforge.  I've never been in such a rush that I was tapping my foot waiting for a show to upload.

[guysonic]

While Hi-MD allows lossless recording, at least in the past you could NOT transfer those recordings (easily) without using Sony's Sonic Stage handling program, and that program is noted to at times corrupt the transfered file, inhibit multiple transfers from the deck, and even cause the deletion of personally made recordings from deck itself.   

Also heard there are some 'hack' programs that work to bypass Sony's handling program, but since you are a beginner, maybe best to leave MD to die like it now should with Sony's mishandling and bad attitutude toward mic input uses with all their MD decks?

You will be struggling to retain manual control with level settings on all these sony MD decks, and no taper, beginner or experienced needs that kind of deck regardless of saving a few bucks.   Suggest you get a far friendlier R-09 for having a better time with making and transfering recordings.

[dunebug81]

The last 2 or 3 versions of Sonic Stage are much more open in terms of uploading files and and doing what you want to with them.  There are no restrictions on  the latest version of Sonic Stage on recordings made from an analog or digital source or limits the amount of times that a recording can be uploaded.  Its been almost a year since sony has updated their software to do so. 

The manual record setting can be set and saved as a default on the RH1.  It was the biggest complaint from MD users and Sony fixed it. 

Sony is in a unique situation in that they are a manufacturer of recording devices such as CD/DVD burners and Minidiscs but are also a record label and I can see their need to feel like they need to protect their interests of the music label yet make usable consumer product.  At the end of the day is all about the share holders and the bottom dollar no matter what the company is.

[lbgspam]

Yes, but I think that a new purchaser, such as the person who started this thread, should in no way buy a MD/HIMD.

As I and GuySonic have already detailed, there is absolutely no reason to buy a HIMD/MD right now as there are no benefits to the MD now -- the MD is not cheaper (or not significantly cheaper depending on how you look at it), it is not as convenient, and not as fast as a Flash based recorder.

If you have some other reason why someone would purchase this over a flash recorder I am curious to hear it!

But, IMHO, the thread starter made a mistake in his purchase and you should even consider selling yours while you still can get a reasonable amount of money back

MD was a technology with GREAT potential given the era it arrived (early 90s).  Unfortunately, Sony so crippled it that it could never take off in the US (in Japan it was VERY popular).  At this point, it should go the way that DAT is starting to go, a steady decline to obsolesence.

[poorlyconditioned]

Yes, but I think that a new purchaser, such as the person who started this thread, should in no way buy a MD/HIMD.

As I and GuySonic have already detailed, there is absolutely no reason to buy a HIMD/MD right now as there are no benefits to the MD now -- the MD is not cheaper (or not significantly cheaper depending on how you look at it), it is not as convenient, and not as fast as a Flash based recorder.

If you have some other reason why someone would purchase this over a flash recorder I am curious to hear it!

But, IMHO, the thread starter made a mistake in his purchase and you should even consider selling yours while you still can get a reasonable amount of money back

MD was a technology with GREAT potential given the era it arrived (early 90s).  Unfortunately, Sony so crippled it that it could never take off in the US (in Japan it was VERY popular).  At this point, it should go the way that DAT is starting to go, a steady decline to obsolesence.

MD is OK sometimes.

- price is cheaper.  I can get an HIMD with mic and line in for $150.
- battery life is excellent, a single AA NiMH can record at least 6hrs.
- mic input is better than NJB3 or iRiver, etc, and (probably?) as good as R09.

Don't spend more than $150 though.  Otherwise get the R09.
Recording compressed (HiSP, 256kbps) sounds good, but only if you're not doing additional processing (eg., matrix with other recording).

  Richard

[lbgspam]

[

MD is OK sometimes.

- price is cheaper.  I can get an HIMD with mic and line in for $150.
- battery life is excellent, a single AA NiMH can record at least 6hrs.
- mic input is better than NJB3 or iRiver, etc, and (probably?) as good as R09.

Don't spend more than $150 though.  Otherwise get the R09.
Recording compressed (HiSP, 256kbps) sounds good, but only if you're not doing additional processing (eg., matrix with other recording).

  Richard

Care to specify where you found a new HIMD for $150?  When I looked (as detailed above) I couldn't find one for less than $350 new.
Unless, you are talking about a USED HIMD?

[twoheadedboy]

http://www.minidisco.com/Sony-MZ-NH700S_2 . There's also a version with blue effects for the same price. It's the same as the NHF-800 but without the digital FM tuner remote, so it's $30 cheaper.

This is by far the best recording unit IMO, as it runs on a single AA battery instead of a proprietary, underpowered, and overpriced gum stick battery.

This was my deck before my R-09. You can't beat the A>D (and overall sound quality for 16-bit/44.1khz) and size/battery usage anywhere close to that price level.

However, it does not retain your settings (AGC is on by default, for instance, and you have to go through multiple menus to turn it off), there's no backlight (may not be a problem for you), and 1 GB = 94 min of PCM audio, which means you're going to either be changing discs at least once for most shows (and that's just for the main act), or using a compressed format, which is frowned upon in the taping world. I also hate the software with a passion, despite improvements made since I was using it. It is incredibly slow as compared to R-09 over USB 2, for which no additional software is required, just drag and drop.

Honestly, I know the R-09 is more expensive, but I would just save your money for it, as it is superior in every way to the MD and really isn't that much more. I've taped 3 shows with mine now and would never go back!

[beefstew]

i guess the only other argument would be is

if ur stealthing HI-MD recording in lossless

ur 1h 34m mark goes up and time for a disc switch - the disc switch increases ur change of being caught 

[taper420]

I agree you should go with the R-09... I used MD and then HiMD for awhile, and it's nothing but headache after headache.....I actually have one getting warranty service done on it right now(woohoo extended warranty).... but in MD's favor I did read that they have very high quality ADC's that can't be found in any equipment in the same price range (at least at my time of reading).....of course the fact that there's no balanced line-in really hurts it.... does the R09 have balanced input? The pre's on MD are complete crap though. Always go line-in with an external preamp. And for any serious recording you need two units to avoid gaps during disc switch. Just save yourself the trouble...sell the MD, go for flash and you won't regret it.

[Scuba Jeremy]

Nobody has mentioned one of the biggest drawbacks about the MD format, Hi-MD or not. If you bump an MD while it is recording, it will create a permanent gap in the recording. There will be no way to retrieve that data, it will be gone forever. Flash recorders do not suffer from being bumped while recording. You wouldn't want to drop any recorder, but in real world situations, the flash recorder will be much better.

I have a few stealth MD recordings where I did everything I could to avoid bumping the deck, and invariably, some asshole bumps into me and shakes the deck. Great, I didn't need those two seconds anyway.

I'm a huge fan of the R09. Look into it.

[dunebug81]

Nobody has mentioned one of the biggest drawbacks about the MD format, Hi-MD or not. If you bump an MD while it is recording, it will create a permanent gap in the recording. There will be no way to retrieve that data, it will be gone forever. Flash recorders do not suffer from being bumped while recording. You wouldn't want to drop any recorder, but in real world situations, the flash recorder will be much better.

I have a few stealth MD recordings where I did everything I could to avoid bumping the deck, and invariably, some asshole bumps into me and shakes the deck. Great, I didn't need those two seconds anyway.

I'm a huge fan of the R09. Look into it.

You must have pos recorder.  Ive been pushed, shoved jumped on and had people drop on me and never once has my recordings skipped.  I even tripped over some dude a few years ago cause I wasnt watching where I was going and it didnt skip.  These units write to memory and then write to disc so they do have some protection. 

[Church-Audio]

Nobody has mentioned one of the biggest drawbacks about the MD format, Hi-MD or not. If you bump an MD while it is recording, it will create a permanent gap in the recording. There will be no way to retrieve that data, it will be gone forever. Flash recorders do not suffer from being bumped while recording. You wouldn't want to drop any recorder, but in real world situations, the flash recorder will be much better.

I have a few stealth MD recordings where I did everything I could to avoid bumping the deck, and invariably, some asshole bumps into me and shakes the deck. Great, I didn't need those two seconds anyway.

I'm a huge fan of the R09. Look into it.

You must have pos recorder.  Ive been pushed, shoved jumped on and had people drop on me and never once has my recordings skipped.  I even tripped over some dude a few years ago cause I wasnt watching where I was going and it didnt skip.  These units write to memory and then write to disc so they do have some protection. 

Hey can I get a copy of the part where you tripped? might sound funny 

[jebi]

i have a hi-MD for sale...

works great.

[guysonic]

Nobody has mentioned one of the biggest drawbacks about the MD format, Hi-MD or not. If you bump an MD while it is recording, it will create a permanent gap in the recording. There will be no way to retrieve that data, it will be gone forever. Flash recorders do not suffer from being bumped while recording. You wouldn't want to drop any recorder, but in real world situations, the flash recorder will be much better.

I have a few stealth MD recordings where I did everything I could to avoid bumping the deck, and invariably, some asshole bumps into me and shakes the deck. Great, I didn't need those two seconds anyway.

I'm a huge fan of the R09. Look into it.

You must have pos recorder.  Ive been pushed, shoved jumped on and had people drop on me and never once has my recordings skipped.  I even tripped over some dude a few years ago cause I wasnt watching where I was going and it didnt skip.  These units write to memory and then write to disc so they do have some protection. 

I find this likely NOT true as small MD decks DO NOT HAVE ANTI SHAKE BUFFER WHEN RECORDING, ONLY during playback. 

So just what model MD has anti-shake when recording?

[taper420]

Ok heres the deal for clarification purposes only .... I still say go with the R09....
ALL minidisc recorders use a prerecord buffer (I think it's twenty seconds). Its built in to the way they work, and helps save batteries because they're not constantly writing. They write in bursts. This prerecord buffer may or may not matter as far as bump errors are concerned though. If you bump during the buffer store then it shouldn't matter....if you bump during the disc write, it may create an error unless the minidisc system has some kind of checksum verify function built in which i doubt greatly.

That being said ... I've never had an error that I can attribute to bumping in over 5 years of MD use. I think allot of errors have been attributed to cheap, faulty media. I've not had problems using sony brand.....and if you plan on being really bumpy, the sony golds have an antishock mechinism built into the disc case.
But sony sucks, MD is a headache, go with the R09.

[rockola]

http://www.minidisco.com/Sony-MZ-NH700S_2 . (...) This is by far the best recording unit IMO, as it runs on a single AA battery instead of a proprietary, underpowered, and overpriced gum stick battery. (...) You can't beat the A>D (and overall sound quality for 16-bit/44.1khz) and size/battery usage anywhere close to that price level.

However, it does not retain your settings (AGC is on by default, for instance, and you have to go through multiple menus to turn it off), there's no backlight (may not be a problem for you), and 1 GB = 94 min of PCM audio, which means you're going to either be changing discs at least once for most shows (...)

I bought one of these from minidisc.com.au for A$149 a few months back. They still have the NH600 for A$99, but it doesn't have a mic pre. Anyway, I agree with everything twoheadedboy said. The R-09 must be a lot better in all regards - except the price, and size maybe? I tape only very occasionally, so I haven't been too motivated to invest in anything better. Bottom line is, it records CD-quality sound at 1/2-1/4 the price of the next best alternative (R-09, price in Australia A$700-800...).

[Church-Audio]

http://www.minidisco.com/Sony-MZ-NH700S_2 . (...) This is by far the best recording unit IMO, as it runs on a single AA battery instead of a proprietary, underpowered, and overpriced gum stick battery. (...) You can't beat the A>D (and overall sound quality for 16-bit/44.1khz) and size/battery usage anywhere close to that price level.

However, it does not retain your settings (AGC is on by default, for instance, and you have to go through multiple menus to turn it off), there's no backlight (may not be a problem for you), and 1 GB = 94 min of PCM audio, which means you're going to either be changing discs at least once for most shows (...)

I bought one of these from minidisc.com.au for A$149 a few months back. They still have the NH600 for A$99, but it doesn't have a mic pre. Anyway, I agree with everything twoheadedboy said. The R-09 must be a lot better in all regards - except the price, and size maybe? I tape only very occasionally, so I haven't been too motivated to invest in anything better. Bottom line is, it records CD-quality sound at 1/2-1/4 the price of the next best alternative (R-09, price in Australia A$700-800...).

I am going to get into trouble for saying this but, for the money I like HIMD. It works its small and it packs alot of features that make recording with less gear very possible.

[poorlyconditioned]

http://www.minidisco.com/Sony-MZ-NH700S_2 . (...) This is by far the best recording unit IMO, as it runs on a single AA battery instead of a proprietary, underpowered, and overpriced gum stick battery. (...) You can't beat the A>D (and overall sound quality for 16-bit/44.1khz) and size/battery usage anywhere close to that price level.

However, it does not retain your settings (AGC is on by default, for instance, and you have to go through multiple menus to turn it off), there's no backlight (may not be a problem for you), and 1 GB = 94 min of PCM audio, which means you're going to either be changing discs at least once for most shows (...)

I bought one of these from minidisc.com.au for A$149 a few months back. They still have the NH600 for A$99, but it doesn't have a mic pre. Anyway, I agree with everything twoheadedboy said. The R-09 must be a lot better in all regards - except the price, and size maybe? I tape only very occasionally, so I haven't been too motivated to invest in anything better. Bottom line is, it records CD-quality sound at 1/2-1/4 the price of the next best alternative (R-09, price in Australia A$700-800...).

I am going to get into trouble for saying this but, for the money I like HIMD. It works its small and it packs alot of features that make recording with less gear very possible.

Hey, right on!  I love my HiMD too.  Compact, runs on a single AA battery, and has a pretty good builtin preamp.  The HiMD solves most of the previous problems, including USB upload and online adjustment of recording level.

I think the R01/R09 are the first real competition for MD, and I can't quite justify spending $300-400 for a two track recorder yet...

  Richard

[chong138]

I have a HI-MD recorder and love it for stealthing shows.  I bought it because my M-1 broke and I didn't wanna pay to fix it.  The R-09 wasn't out yet...so I didn't have alot of choices.  I've had it for about 9 months now and recorded maybee 10 shows with it.  I record punk and metal shows and am constantly getting bumped into.  I've never had it record silence or skips from beeing bumped or from anything.  I Don't think that there is anything wrong with the HI-MD's...I actually think the recordings on it sound better than the M-1 did.  If I was going to buy something to record now...it'd probably be the R-09, but I don't think the HI-MD is a bad choice either.  I'm actuallly going to get a RH-01 soon so I can upload all my old school MD shows too. 

[King Ghidora]

I remember a time just a couple of years ago that people on boards like this were swearing there was nothing ever like HIMD and that there never would be because it was dang near perfect.  Flash memory was just way too expensive and there were no really good flash memory recorders anyway.

The truth is that HIMD has been a great technology and it still is for many applications.  It was always vulnerable to being shaken too hard but I've taped many, many events with my old MD and I never once had a single issue with lost recordings due to shaking.  It's always been possible to lose your whole recording if you bumped the recorder hard enough when it was writing the TOC but I have never heard anyone complain about that either.

There are first generation HIMD units being sold for $125 to $150.  Check out this web site for examples.  I bought a used HIMD that was barely used and got a bunch of discs for $115 (thanks twoheadedboy).  They have their limitations and never technologies have finally overtaken them as the prime mobile recording device.  But they had a great run and they still have their uses.

I think some people are so intent on proving to themselves that their investment in newer technology was a good idea that they rag on HIMD more than is justified.  It was a great technology for it's time but it's time is nearly over.  There are still reasons for buying HIMD.  It can be bought much cheaper than the Edirol's if you don't mind buying 1st generation stuff (which sounds just as good as the latest HIMD stuff).  I bought HIMD because I needed a mobile recording device to use with my video business.  I don't need to worry about bouncing or 90 minute record time limitations or even the hassle of resetting the recording settings every time I put in a new tape.  I also don't need 24 bit audio since I will have to render it down to 16 bit to work with my video format anyway.  I also record a bluegrass band quite often and aside from not having 24 bit audio the HIMD I bought is still as good as any other mobile recording device around.  And I'm not convinced that 24 bit audio is worth paying 3 times the price when I'm not recording studio quality for the band.  If I was I would be buying something besides the Edirol anyway.

HIMD and before it MD were great technologies to have when there wasn't anything else.  HIMD is still a great bargain technology and it is grea for matching up with current video standards.  There are lots of other reasons to still use HIMD too.  Battery life is a good example.  Being able to use standard AA batteries is another (unless you want your recorder to be useless in 5 years because the price of a new battery is more than the price of a new recorder - I like having my old MD still work for me for many reasons - for example I can stick it in the pocket of a rodeo clown and not worry a bit if it gets smashed). 

Just because it isn't the latest and greatest it doesn't mean that it is totally useless.  I have good reason for saving the money off of what I would pay for a R-09.  We shouldn't be so quick to criticize people who might want to buy good to see if they want to invest in better down the line.  How many of us started playing keyboard on a Steinway Grand?  I started on a Casio with maybe 36 keys.  Now I have a great keyboard and maybe someday I'll have a top of the line keyboard if my arthritis doesn't kill my ability completely.  There are always mitigating factors and reasons for all sorts of things.  We should keep that in mind.  Taping is a hobby and not everyone is interested in jumping right to the top of the game before they see if they actually like taping.

[tiberiusbkirk]

I don't think anyone answered the OP's question.
He already has a HImd unit and was looking for recommendations for mics and pre amp.
I think Chris church can help with this question.
As I'm still using a MDLP MD unit, no usb with DIY mics. So I can't offer much advise in this area.
except, I will eventually get one of Chris church's battery box or if I can his Pre amp unit.

[King Ghidora]

I don't think anyone answered the OP's question.
He already has a HImd unit and was looking for recommendations for mics and pre amp.
I think Chris church can help with this question.

Actually Church's stuff was mentioned in the first response to the OP.  Sound Professionals was mentioned in the second response.  It was after that that the questions about the viability of MD got started.  First it was a question about lossless recording and then one time uploads and upload problems.  It was the standard progression of complaints about MD.  From people who still think MD is limited to ARTRAC to people who say all MD pre's are crap these things are repeated over and over again in threads all over the net.  I have seen lots of folks say the pre's on HIMD's are just as good as the pre on the R-09.  Sure the pre's can always be made better.  But I don't think the pre's on HIMD's are crap.  They aren't studio quality but they were never meant to be.  They were just meant to be good and they are.

[guysonic]

I don't think anyone answered the OP's question.
He already has a HImd unit and was looking for recommendations for mics and pre amp.
I think Chris church can help with this question.

Actually Church's stuff was mentioned in the first response to the OP.  Sound Professionals was mentioned in the second response.  It was after that that the questions about the viability of MD got started.  First it was a question about lossless recording and then one time uploads and upload problems.  It was the standard progression of complaints about MD.  From people who still think MD is limited to ARTRAC to people who say all MD pre's are crap these things are repeated over and over again in threads all over the net.  I have seen lots of folks say the pre's on HIMD's are just as good as the pre on the R-09.  Sure the pre's can always be made better.  But I don't think the pre's on HIMD's are crap.  They aren't studio quality but they were never meant to be.  They were just meant to be good and they are.

R-09 preamp is actually more pro quality than NON-pro type MD 'mini-decks' in ability to handle full professional high + 10 dBu mic input levels.  Something none of the mini-md decks have ability to handle.  Also good to note 5 years recent MD models do process at 24 bit depth, but convert digital output to 16 bit.

For see chart of R-09 input ability go to: http://www.sonicstudios.com/r-09revw.htm#inputs

[King Ghidora]

R-09 preamp is actually more pro quality than NON-pro type MD 'mini-decks' in ability to handle full professional high + 10 dBu mic input levels.  Something none of the mini-md decks have ability to handle.  Also good to note 5 years recent MD models do process at 24 bit depth, but convert digital output to 16 bit.

Yeah that was one of the major failings of MD.  Their inability to handle the level of power put out by really good mics was a constant source of problems with md of all flavors.  You either had to attentuate or go line in but that often causes problems IMO with track marks etc..  There are workarounds for that too but it shouldn't be neccessary to begin with.  Maybe Sony just wanted to sell a bunch of ECM-MS908c mics because they were never a problem because their output was low enough to work well.  It worked I guess because that mic was the pick of many who bought MD for years because they were known as a well matched pair.  But of course that doesn't explain why Sharp also played that game.

[dunebug81]

R-09 preamp is actually more pro quality than NON-pro type MD 'mini-decks' in ability to handle full professional high + 10 dBu mic input levels.  Something none of the mini-md decks have ability to handle.  Also good to note 5 years recent MD models do process at 24 bit depth, but convert digital output to 16 bit.

Yeah that was one of the major failings of MD.  Their inability to handle the level of power put out by really good mics was a constant source of problems with md of all flavors.  You either had to attentuate or go line in but that often causes problems IMO with track marks etc..  There are workarounds for that too but it shouldn't be neccessary to begin with.  Maybe Sony just wanted to sell a bunch of ECM-MS908c mics because they were never a problem because their output was low enough to work well.  It worked I guess because that mic was the pick of many who bought MD for years because they were known as a well matched pair.  But of course that doesn't explain why Sharp also played that game.

Why wouldnt you run line in no matter what mics you have? 

[King Ghidora]

R-09 preamp is actually more pro quality than NON-pro type MD 'mini-decks' in ability to handle full professional high + 10 dBu mic input levels.  Something none of the mini-md decks have ability to handle.  Also good to note 5 years recent MD models do process at 24 bit depth, but convert digital output to 16 bit.

Yeah that was one of the major failings of MD.  Their inability to handle the level of power put out by really good mics was a constant source of problems with md of all flavors.  You either had to attentuate or go line in but that often causes problems IMO with track marks etc..  There are workarounds for that too but it shouldn't be neccessary to begin with.  Maybe Sony just wanted to sell a bunch of ECM-MS908c mics because they were never a problem because their output was low enough to work well.  It worked I guess because that mic was the pick of many who bought MD for years because they were known as a well matched pair.  But of course that doesn't explain why Sharp also played that game.

Why wouldnt you run line in no matter what mics you have? 

The automatic track marks when recording line in are a hassle IMO.  Any time a HIMD senses 5 seconds of near-silence, it inserts a mark forcing you to have to combine the tracks that were divided.  There are programs that combine the tracks automatically fairly well but it's still a hassle IMO.

[dunebug81]

R-09 preamp is actually more pro quality than NON-pro type MD 'mini-decks' in ability to handle full professional high + 10 dBu mic input levels.  Something none of the mini-md decks have ability to handle.  Also good to note 5 years recent MD models do process at 24 bit depth, but convert digital output to 16 bit.

Yeah that was one of the major failings of MD.  Their inability to handle the level of power put out by really good mics was a constant source of problems with md of all flavors.  You either had to attentuate or go line in but that often causes problems IMO with track marks etc..  There are workarounds for that too but it shouldn't be neccessary to begin with.  Maybe Sony just wanted to sell a bunch of ECM-MS908c mics because they were never a problem because their output was low enough to work well.  It worked I guess because that mic was the pick of many who bought MD for years because they were known as a well matched pair.  But of course that doesn't explain why Sharp also played that game.

Why wouldnt you run line in no matter what mics you have? 

The automatic track marks when recording line in are a hassle IMO.  Any time a HIMD senses 5 seconds of near-silence, it inserts a mark forcing you to have to combine the tracks that were divided.  There are programs that combine the tracks automatically fairly well but it's still a hassle IMO.

I guess Ive never taped anything quiet enough for that to happen.  What are you taping?

[King Ghidora]

I'm mostly taping a bluegrass band which doesn't overload the mic input too much even with a hot mic so I'm not using line in with that.  I do sometimes use an inline volume control to attenuate the sound if the band is playing particularly loud or something. 

Some instrument solos can have silent sections especially in classical music which can cause problems (not that I record classical but I do record mountain and bluegrass which sometimes contains silent sections in the songs).  BTW I've seen other people complain about the same problem on the MD board.  Check out the thread on this web page.  A guy there says he ended up with 247 tracks on a single disc because the auto track mark function kept finding sections of low sound and adding track marks there. 

My actual experience with this is limited because I saw pretty quick that it was going to be a problem for me especially in interviews for my video business.  Any modification of the timing of the recording can cause big havoc for me when I try to sync with my cameras.  I didn't want to end up with a messed up audio track so I really didn't try using it.  I understood people to say that the MD added some time between each track that it picked up with the auto track function.  Maybe I read their comment wrong but I had already decided it was a hassle having so many tracks in my interviews.

And I've recorded rock concerts using attenuation and didn't have any particular problems.  I do realize that there are S/N issues with attenuation but they haven't been a problem for me.  Rock concerts are pretty loud so they don't generally suffer from S/N problems.  Also I have been to many rock concerts where they have silent sections in the songs.  You don't see it too much in head banger music but with certain classic rock groups this could be a problem.

[dunebug81]

Woah!  247 tracks!  That would be a problem.  I used to have my sharp do auto tracks every 10 min so i could skip thru the show quickly while listening to it on the way home.  Its easy enough to delete 4-5 track marks but damn 250 would be a pain. 

[dorrcoq]

DAMN!  Is there no way to turn off that "feature"?  Somebody had a bad idea there!

[King Ghidora]

The way I understand it there is no way to turn off the automatic track mark feature on some MD's.  I believe it's mostly the HIMD's but I'm not really sure.  I do know it's impossible for some models.

[goldenbreast]

i guess the only other argument would be is

if ur stealthing HI-MD recording in lossless

ur 1h 34m mark goes up and time for a disc switch - the disc switch increases ur change of being caught 

this is the exact reason why im thinking of getting a flash recorder. ive only taped one show in a low key venue. ive got a couple of gigs coming up - neil young, joe bonamassa. i found it a bit tricky switching md's while taping my first show. adding to that, i kept checking to see how long i had left on each disc. the thought if being able to turn a recorder on and just leaving it to run sounds like a dream. i have the church audio cards and church audio 9100 pre. can anyone recommend the best setup if i had the following (i.e. which inputs to use)

edirol r-09 > church audio 9100 pre > church audio cards

p.s. would i need to use the pre to record loud rock gigs? (im guessing its a yes)

cheers guys

Alex

[nameloc01]

Hi-mds are great for some and not for others. The day i cant buy 1gb blanks anymore is the day i stop taping. And i have more trust in my m100 than any other recorder you could put in front of me.