Topic: mics directly into recorder question (at943 4.7k/853/ssdsm6; r-1;r09;iriverh120

[Belexes]

I'm still interested in anyone's further thoughts on whether the 4.7k mod actually "degrades" the performance of at943's in any way.  I'm still trying to learn stuff myself and I appreciate all of the effort and ideas people share on this site (even if people don't always agree totally on things).

If I didn't live in the middle of nowhere, I'd be able to attend a show with my mics and give feedback, but I am in a deadzone right now.

I know Arni on this board has some low-sens SP-CMC-8's.  Maybe he can weigh in?

[Church-Audio]

I continue to hunt around for some more insight on the 4.7k mod and at943's and I came across this thread:

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,78509

I'm still interested in anyone's further thoughts on whether the 4.7k mod actually "degrades" the performance of at943's in any way.  I'm still trying to learn stuff myself and I appreciate all of the effort and ideas people share on this site (even if people don't always agree totally on things).

I invented the "4.7k mod" and I am saying if your mics dont need the mod dont do it. The 943 mics I tested did not need the mod. This does not mean they all dont need it but the ones I had on hand did not. I use the same method to determine a mics distortion I can compair any AT mics to my mics to see how the distortion is compared to mine and that's how I determine if a mic needs the mod or not. My mics have a 0.5% distortion at 1K at 114db when my mics and mics like the AT853 are wired three wire and NOT modified they have a distortion ranging from 6% to 12% THD at 1k at 114db. I use a very repeatable method of measuring distortion that is very accurate. So the only way to tell for sure is to send me your mics and I will evaluate them * for free * if you decide to have the mod done I charge $15.00 for it.


The reason why you dont want to do the mod if you dont have to is simple if your mics are "fine" then you are losing 10 db of gain unnessisarily. Also there is NO loss in frequency response what so ever from this mod.

I hope that helps clear things up.

Chris

[Belexes]

The reason why you dont want to do the mod if you dont have to is simple if your mics are "fine" then you are losing 10 db of gain unnessisarily. Also there is NO loss in frequency response what so ever from this mod.

I hope that helps clear things up.

Chris

That makes me feel better, especially since I have the 9100 to get +20 back on gain. Thanks Chris for all your work on the subject.

[aleal5687]

Chris

Thanks for all your responses. I have been researching the 4.7 and the 2.2 mods. 
I had a question that I could not find the answer to using the search function.

Right now my mics(hlso&mke2) are terminated stereo 1/8"

Is it possible to incorporate you mod into a mini extension cable like this?

1/8" stereo (female)->4.7K mod->1/8" stereo (male)

[Javier Cinakowski]

Chris

Thanks for all your responses. I have been researching the 4.7 and the 2.2 mods. 
I had a question that I could not find the answer to using the search function.

Right now my mics(hlso&mke2) are terminated stereo 1/8"

Is it possible to incorporate you mod into a mini extension cable like this?

1/8" stereo (female)->4.7K mod->1/8" stereo (male)

not, that is not possible.  The modification needs to be done before the wires become common at the 1/8" plug.

[Church-Audio]

Chris

Thanks for all your responses. I have been researching the 4.7 and the 2.2 mods. 
I had a question that I could not find the answer to using the search function.

Right now my mics(hlso&mke2) are terminated stereo 1/8"

Is it possible to incorporate you mod into a mini extension cable like this?

1/8" stereo (female)->4.7K mod->1/8" stereo (male)

This mod does not work with 2 wire mics unless you can seperate the capsule ground from the ground pad on the capsule. Not possible with the MKE2. So my mod must be done to three wire capsules and again not all of them need it.

Chris

[Will_S]

This mod does not work with 2 wire mics unless you can seperate the capsule ground from the ground pad on the capsule. Not possible with the MKE2.

This is not entirely true.  The MKE-2-4 is shorted at the capsule, the MKE-2-5 is not and can be modded like any other 3 wire capsule (illocinditioned recommends a 2.2k resistor and it worked great for me).  I don't know which version Microphone Madness uses.

[Church-Audio]

This mod does not work with 2 wire mics unless you can seperate the capsule ground from the ground pad on the capsule. Not possible with the MKE2.

This is not entirely true.  The MKE-2-4 is shorted at the capsule, the MKE-2-5 is not and can be modded like any other 3 wire capsule (illocinditioned recommends a 2.2k resistor and it worked great for me).  I don't know which version Microphone Madness uses.

Some MKE2 Mics are three wire most that I have seen are not. And the mod will work with any mic that requires it in my experience the MKE-2 handles very high spl and does not require any mod. Remember if you do the mod to a mic that does not need it your actually degrading the performance of the mic because your lowering the output of the mic for no good reason.

I have measured MKE2 Mics and found they handle very high SPL with little to no distortion.
But there are variations of the MKE2 because they have been made for over 20 years now you can find some three wire versions of this mic and two wire versions.


Chris

EDIT .... What I mean in this case is two conductors + a shield but one of the conductors and ground are always tied together and are not true three wire!

[Will_S]

This mod does not work with 2 wire mics unless you can seperate the capsule ground from the ground pad on the capsule. Not possible with the MKE2.

This is not entirely true.  The MKE-2-4 is shorted at the capsule, the MKE-2-5 is not and can be modded like any other 3 wire capsule (illocinditioned recommends a 2.2k resistor and it worked great for me).  I don't know which version Microphone Madness uses.

Some MKE2 Mics are three wire most that I have seen are not. And the mod will work with any mic that requires it in my experience the MKE-2 handles very high spl and does not require any mod. Remember if you do the mod to a mic that does not need it your actually degrading the performance of the mic because your lowering the output of the mic for no good reason.

I have measured MKE2 Mics and found they handle very high SPL with little to no distortion.
But there are variations of the MKE2 because they have been made for over 20 years now you can find some three wire versions of this mic and two wire versions.


Chris

Interesting.  I admit I just blindly copied illconditioned's choice to do the 2.2k mod as I was impressed with his recordings made with modded mics into an R09.  That said, the realized sensitivity of the 2.2k modded MKE-2-5s matches up really nicely with the R09 - no attenuation needed for loud shows, but the low sensitivity mic in provides plenty of gain for all but really quiet performances.

[illconditioned]

Please forgive my newbie-like intrusion into this thread...being a budget-minded sort, would CoreSound Low Cost Binaurals work with the plug power of the R-09?

no!  The core sound come with their own battery box, with the so-called "Linkwitz mod".  Another way of powering.  so, if you've got core sound, you'll need to go: mics > core-bbox > r09.  Leaving plug in power on the Edirol should be fine, but not needed because the battery box is supplying power.

  Richard

[Church-Audio]

Please forgive my newbie-like intrusion into this thread...being a budget-minded sort, would CoreSound Low Cost Binaurals work with the plug power of the R-09?

no!  The core sound come with their own battery box, with the so-called "Linkwitz mod".  Another way of powering.  so, if you've got core sound, you'll need to go: mics > core-bbox > r09.  Leaving plug in power on the Edirol should be fine, but not needed because the battery box is supplying power.

  Richard

Hi Richard was it you that told me its also reversed biased? so you really need that battery box.. I would think with a linkwitz mod you would not need to do any mods to it..

[Alchemy]

The Linkwitz mod fixes the poor production problem with the WM-61A Panasonic capsules. I have some of these capsules coming in the mail soon and can't wait to mess with them. 

The Core Sound binaurals are made of these capsules with the same mod. And actually they will work perfectly fine on normal plug-in power from an R-09.

[Church-Audio]

The Linkwitz mod fixes the poor production problem with the WM-61A Panasonic capsules. I have some of these capsules coming in the mail soon and can't wait to mess with them. 

The Core Sound binaurals are made of these capsules with the same mod. And actually they will work perfectly fine on normal plug-in power from an R-09.

The panasonic WM60 and 61 were great capsules just ask EARTHWORKS that's pretty much whats in the measurement mics they make. In all fairness there is also some active circuits inside and some acoustic correction going on as well. But its not a bad capsule.

Chris

[Javier Cinakowski]

Please forgive my newbie-like intrusion into this thread...being a budget-minded sort, would CoreSound Low Cost Binaurals work with the plug power of the R-09?

no!  The core sound come with their own battery box, with the so-called "Linkwitz mod".  Another way of powering.  so, if you've got core sound, you'll need to go: mics > core-bbox > r09.  Leaving plug in power on the Edirol should be fine, but not needed because the battery box is supplying power.

  Richard

That is not not true.  The Low Cost Binaurals do not come with a battery box.  (neither does the low cost stealth cards)

[Church-Audio]

Please forgive my newbie-like intrusion into this thread...being a budget-minded sort, would CoreSound Low Cost Binaurals work with the plug power of the R-09?

no!  The core sound come with their own battery box, with the so-called "Linkwitz mod".  Another way of powering.  so, if you've got core sound, you'll need to go: mics > core-bbox > r09.  Leaving plug in power on the Edirol should be fine, but not needed because the battery box is supplying power.

  Richard

That is not not true.  The Low Cost Binaurals do not come with a battery box.  (neither does the low cost stealth cards)

Oh OK I dont know much about the Cs mics... But I would think if they have the linkwitz mod they will work with out any further mods.