Topic: Sound Forge 9.0 multi-channel mixing question

[Myco]

So I just used my new R-44 for the first time to record Les Claypool last Sun. night. I used two pair of mics and recorded using Stereo x 2 to get two stereo files recorded @ 24/48.

My question now is, "Can I mix the two 24/48 stereo files and get one mixed stereo file in 24/48 as an end product?" It appears that Sound Forge will only render a 16/44 file if I mix the two together. Does this sound right to any of you?

Thanks

[bugg100]

Take a look at Reaper at reaper.fm.  Really cool program.

[Digital Quality]

You can do that with SoX merge operation.

sox -M left.wav right.wav out.wav

[tfs8271]

I'm trying to figure this out as well.  I've been able to copy the one file and paste special (mix) to the other file.  I'm just not sure this is how you are suppose to do it.

[OFOTD]

SoundForge 9 does not allow you to render down from multiple channels to two channels.

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

I use Wavelab to mix multiple stereo recordings together.

Wavelab doesn't seem to work under Win 7, so I'm outta luck there...but it sounds like I should be able to run it again once the official Win 7 Pro is released.

[JD]

I use SF9 to mix four tracks down to 2 using the "channel converter" function.

Put all four of your tracks into a single quad track file, do any alignment needed. Then use the channel converter by selecting a percentage of each source (file) to go to either output 1 or output 2. (You must have the channel converter set for two output files.)

Example;
40% source 1 to output 1, 0%   to output 2
0%   source 2 to output 1, 40% to output 2
60% source 3 to output 1, 0%   to output 2
0%   source 4 to output 1, 60% to output 2

In this case sources 1&2 and 3&4 would be stereo files with 1&3 being the left channels and 3&4 being the right.

You can then sample the mix, although it only lets you listen to about 10 seconds.
I then just play around with the percentages until I find a mix that sounds like what I am after, then press OK to mix the tracks.


Kind of awkward the first time around, but it works.

JD

[tfs8271]

I use SF9 to mix four tracks down to 2 using the "channel converter" function.

Put all four of your tracks into a single quad track file, do any alignment needed. Then use the channel converter by selecting a percentage of each source (file) to go to either output 1 or output 2. (You must have the channel converter set for two output files.)

Example;
40% source 1 to output 1, 0%   to output 2
0%   source 2 to output 1, 40% to output 2
60% source 3 to output 1, 0%   to output 2
0%   source 4 to output 1, 60% to output 2

In this case sources 1&2 and 3&4 would be stereo files with 1&3 being the left channels and 2 3 &4 being the right.

You can then sample the mix, although it only lets you listen to about 10 seconds.
I then just play around with the percentages until I find a mix that sounds like what I am after, then press OK to mix the tracks.


Kind of awkward the first time around, but it works.

JD

Fixed it but I'm everyone picked that up.

[Gordon]

wavelab's montage is a piece of cake

[Myco]

I use SF9 to mix four tracks down to 2 using the "channel converter" function.

Put all four of your tracks into a single quad track file, do any alignment needed. Then use the channel converter by selecting a percentage of each source (file) to go to either output 1 or output 2. (You must have the channel converter set for two output files.)

Example;
40% source 1 to output 1, 0%   to output 2
0%   source 2 to output 1, 40% to output 2
60% source 3 to output 1, 0%   to output 2
0%   source 4 to output 1, 60% to output 2

In this case sources 1&2 and 3&4 would be stereo files with 1&3 being the left channels and 3&4 being the right.

You can then sample the mix, although it only lets you listen to about 10 seconds.
I then just play around with the percentages until I find a mix that sounds like what I am after, then press OK to mix the tracks.


Kind of awkward the first time around, but it works.

JD

Thank you much JD!

[momule]

wavelab's montage is a piece of cake

Samplitude is easier and much faster and has better dither / resample

[bugg100]

I guess what we're trying to say, is that many programs are much better for the growing R-44 army than sound forge for matrix.....

[OFOTD]

wavelab's montage is a piece of cake

Samplitude is easier and much faster and has better dither / resample

Better dither and resample?    Links?  Comps?    I use SF 9 with Ozone 3 and find the MBIT+ dither to be be as good as any other dither out there.  Cross platform too.     

For me personally if Sony would include a 'Render' feature similar to the one in WaveLab as well as a 64bit version (In the works for v10 I hear) it would rule the roost.  Extremely easy and simple interface.  Legacy support.   Multi-track. Large user base.    Samplitude is very similar to reaper in the sense that it giving you the capability of a product like Cubase when most on this board will use <5% of the capabilities.

[Gordon]

yea I use Ozone 3/MBIT+ with wavelab.  doesn't get much better than that 

and having never used Samplitude I can't comment on it.  but wavelab's montage to mix four channels is VERY easy and with my machine is fast as hell.  I always thought soundforge was slow but never wavelab.

[Myco]

bump

[jbw]

Don't know much about SF, but what you want to do is extremely easy to do with any multitrack software out there (DAWs). Personally my DAW of choise is Cubase and I use Wavelab for treating single stereo files, mastering and simple edits, but any mixing is done in Cubase.

So I guess the answer to your question is yes, it is very easy and possible to do. But perhaps not with SF:(.

[dorrcoq]

OK, the rest of this seems pretty easy but I must be missing something simple - how do you do this step?

"Put all four of your tracks into a single quad track file"

Thanks

Dennis

[Myco]

I haven't figured out how to put them all in a single 4 track file after the fact, but it works great if you record a file in the 4x1 mode on the R-44. I've recorded with hypers on channels 1&2, and omni's on channels 3&4. In post I've mixed them 100% for channels 1&2, 75-80% channels 3&4 and they have come out sweet.

I've tried the 60%-40% mix as JD recommended, but what it does is actually lower the volume of the entire mix because your only taking 60% of this one and mixing it with only 40% of the other, so with some experimentation I've found that I've wanted 100% of the hyper recording, mixed with 75-80% of the omni's and it sounds great. This assumes that your levels aren't too hot to start out with or the resulting mix will be clipped, but it's worked out well for me.

[dorrcoq]

Thanks for the tip, Myco.  Glad to know I'm not the only one who can't figure it out.     Unfortunately, I recorded 2 x 2 on the R4

[bugg100]

If you don't have wavelab, really should try reaper.fm. You can really mix tracks easily.  $60 buys you a full licsence as well.

[Myco]

Thanks for the tip, Myco.  Glad to know I'm not the only one who can't figure it out.     Unfortunately, I recorded 2 x 2 on the R4

Depending on your levels, you might try the simple Mix function and see how it sounds for the 2 x 2 file. For some shows I haven't liked it, but for my last show I did this and it came out nice. I posted this show in the kickdown section and it's up on LMA if you wanna check out how it sounds. It's the NWG2009-10-31 Halloween show.

[kcmule]

wavelab's montage is a piece of cake

[Myco]

It's cool that a lot of people use other programs and they work great and all, but when you already have one program that is supposed to do the job you'd usually like to try and make it work before you go out and buy a new program. A number of people have chimed in and said try this, or try that, it's cheap and all that, but really this question is geared only to Soundforge 9.0 users who know how to use this program, anything else posted here, while certainly appreciated, is just clutter.

Thanks. 

[bugg100]

but really this question is geared only to Soundforge 9.0 users who know how to use this program

But I will politely add, and then bow out, it doesn't work.

[Myco]

duly noted, thanks.

[Myco]

I use SF9 to mix four tracks down to 2 using the "channel converter" function.

Put all four of your tracks into a single quad track file, do any alignment needed. Then use the channel converter by selecting a percentage of each source (file) to go to either output 1 or output 2. (You must have the channel converter set for two output files.)

Example;
40% source 1 to output 1, 0%   to output 2
0%   source 2 to output 1, 40% to output 2
60% source 3 to output 1, 0%   to output 2
0%   source 4 to output 1, 60% to output 2

In this case sources 1&2 and 3&4 would be stereo files with 1&3 being the left channels and 2&4 being the right.

You can then sample the mix, although it only lets you listen to about 10 seconds.
I then just play around with the percentages until I find a mix that sounds like what I am after, then press OK to mix the tracks.


Kind of awkward the first time around, but it works.

JD

BTW (adressed to no one in particular), the above recommendation from JD does work for SF9, I have used it ,and it has worked very well assuming that you have recorded your file using the 4 x 1 option.

I have also used the "Mix" function found in the "Edit" dropdown on some files recorded using the 2 x 2 option and had some success with some shows. To do this you copy one of the stereo files, go to the other file and use  "Edit>Paste>Mix" function.

So it is possible to mix multi-channel sources in SF9. Is it as intuitive as other programs out there, probably not. I've been told that there are certainly easier programs out there to accomplish this, but if you already have SF9 and you want to accomplish a 4 channel mix just use JD's instructions and adjust the percentages you mix to suit your ears.