Topic: Video tapers: what mics are y'all running?

[sunjan]

Hi all,

I'm helping out a female friend who is clueless about microphones to configure her video rig.

I'd like to know what mics you run when filming with camcorder:
 - model, capsules?
 - 2 x mono or one stereo mic?
 - where you mount them (camera, body, stand, elsewhere)?
 - mic pattern/configuration (straight shotgun, bar (XY, ORTF etc))?
 - powering?
Any other thoughts about your mic setup...

Thanks a lot for your input!

[Gordon]

I only open tape so when I run my camera I'm running my neumanns as well.  sometimes I run on the same stand as camera but prefer to run right beside it if possible.  I run din or nos 99.9% of the time.

[chicofishhead]

It's too bad your female friend doesn't live here in Chico, because I'd like to team up with her.  According to your initial post in the other thread, she and I have similar ideas about shooting music performance video.  I also shoot in what I guess you would call a "journalistic" way, so my footage may possibly be useful in documentaries somewhere down the line (which has happened a few times so far).

Like Gordon and others have suggested, I usually have a separate audio tape running, or else I know someone who is recording audio.  I basically randomly select a few songs and go up close and get closeups of the singers and soloists.  If possible, I'll quickly move once or twice during the song to get different angles.  I try and make sure to get at least one shot of each guy during the song.  My PD 170 is nice for changing zoom, focus and iris quickly.  During other songs I'll take crowd shots and more closeups of musicians, mainly faces.  Often times I'll run a cover shot with another camera on a tripod, but I try not to use that too much of that in my final edit.  I sync and edit everything with Final Cut Pro.

Here's some examples (when you watch them knowing everything I just told you, it's not hard to find spots where the audio and video didn't originally go together, but the vast majority of people watching these think there were three or four cameras).  Sorry about the YouTube compression.

One camera only, edited, synched with separately recorded audio:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiJl-vjUgH8&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGkEyqNOMw0&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B8WufOj75A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFkqEFv5Olc&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJSD__2pRYA&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oqeuFvaxSU&feature=channel

Second camera cover shot, synched:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALLv9E3ymmM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck6CrSt2Y2E&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D4B7T5F2pI&feature=channel

Me, a friend with another camera, and cover shot; separately recorded audio:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zIFc8jbTvo&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONuuDEKibTM&feature=channel_page

One camera, edited, making due with on-camera mic audio (no other source):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVVXxdDmn7A&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FDos48EkyQ&feature=channel

There are many threads on this site about audio recording techniques, but one thing to consider is that the best audio recording doesn't necessarily sound best when matched with the video.  Soundboards in particular often sound weird when synched, especially when you can see the crowd but barely hear them.  I have occasionally mixed in the video camera mic to give the audio extra ambience.  One more thing, I usually don't bother to even try to shoot video in dark clubs, or places with reddish lighting.  I have plenty of opportunities to record cool bands in daylight, or inside light that works okay for video.

I can't believe I'm giving away all my secrets.  I hope not to many people read this.  I realize this post would have been more appropriate on the prior thread, but I'm just now getting around to making it and this is the current one.

[sunjan]

Hey fishhead, nice work! Much appreciated!

I agree that soundboard isn't ideal to mix in with video.
How do you get the separate audio? Do you always rely on another taper, or are you able to mount mics on a stand or similar, and leave your rig unattended throughout the concert?

For this kind of work, I guess that the only thing that makes sense as camera-mounted mics is a stereo shotgun? 2 x mono mics would mean phasing issues when moving around, right??? Or would it still work?

BTW, if you don't want to disclose your tricks, pm me your e-mail. I'd be glad to put you in touch with my friend, maybe she has some ideas to share as well...

[stantheman1976]

To get the best audio you absolutely need a separate, stationary audio rig either run into a recorder for syncing later or run into the line in on a camera if it has a line in.  If you are moving the camera at all during filming the audio won't be consistent.  Even with a good on camera mic your reults won't be as good as with a separate audio rig.  You can get a good stereo mic like the Rode SVM and either have the camera stationary and the mic attached directly to it or have the mic mounted off the camera going into the camera and you'll get decent reults audio wise.  Though if the camera is stationary you'll either have a boring static shot or need at least one other camera for a multi cam mix.

If I were her I'd make sure someone else is running audio and learn to syn in post.  It's really not that hard, but it is intimidating at first.  At least it was for me.  I use Sony Vegas and it's fairly easy to sync up different sources.  It's even easy to adjust timing if the external source drifts over time so will often be the case.

[chicofishhead]

Stan's right, you need a separate audio rig, and it's easiest if someone else is doing the audio.  If I do the audio, I always leave it unattended.  I haven't had any problems, except a few weeks ago when the DAP1 got drenched with beer, shut down, and mangled the tape when I ejected it.  Luckily it has worked fine since it dried out the next day.  I was careless and put it at a bad spot and didn't cover it.

Like Stan said it's easy to sync in post as long as you are using digital sources.  I've done it with analog audio where I've had to adjust the speed multiple times during a single song, and that's a major pain in the ass.  Here's a clip where I sunc up my soundboard cassette with another guy's Hi8 video, and mixed the audio sources.  It has phasing issues, but I kept it as it is because I kind of liked the Itchycoo Park-sounding effect on the drums:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2JwBT_sX74

[Ken Kaiser]

I've done a variety of things, getting progressively better results as I go.  I'll link some samples of some of the setups I've used.  (Note that we are always at the mercy of the sound guy, so they aren't really true apples and apples comparisons, but you can listen and see what you think)

If at all possible, I always run the audio on a seperate stand.  I have used the Rode SVM on camera, and while it is the simplist and sounds pretty good, but as the others pointed out the sound will "move with the camera".  Also, you'll tend to get more handling noise as.

Lately I've been happy running my Busman BSC-1's-->MixPre-->R09HR, and when I am close enough to the mic stand I'll go line out of the MixPre to the SignVideo XLRPro mounted under the camera, and then into the camera.

Here are a couple multicam recordings I've done of a friends band with different setups:


Canon HV30 and Panasonic PV-GS400's and GS500's, BSC1's as described above for audio:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAxhC5Xevss
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pyf7qEGGUU&feature=channel

Panasonic PV-400's and GS500's, with 2 Rode SVM's on two camera's mixed (a little too much echo)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU2OvIHgzXg&feature=channel

Another one using Rode SVM's on camera (very very loud show!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_7URfY3Eyk&feature=channel

And here is a sample of my family playing, again using BSC1's MixPre R09HR.  On this one I set all the cameras and the audio, hoped for the best, and went on stage to perform!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbGYuu3ga9c  You can see the mic stand at 20 seconds, on the right side next to the sound guy standing up in the green shirt.  Actually now that I think about it, I might have had a little bit of the SB into a MT2 mixed in, I can't remember.

And two more samples using audio from Church Audio CA-14 Omni's-->CA-9100-->R09HR, again I had to "set and forget" and go play.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytTyo38SeYE&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dutxEg3G4s&feature=channel

And a last sample, using the CA-14 Omni's-->CA-9100-->R09HR + SBF-->MT2 mixed in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZPn5YWZCmI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9uTquxcLzM

[Mental Time Traveler]

cmc-4 sticked with tape to baseball cap, their path is usually coming straight into my hands keeping the camera, but wait, it's stealth