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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: mandoman on July 16, 2006, 04:46:07 PM
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Check out this new portable recording device announced at NAMM:
http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=1901&brandID=4
and
http://www.samash.com/catalog/showitem.asp?SKU=ZH4XXXXXX
This thing looks sweet. Built in mics, plus 2 neutrik mic pre's with 48v phantom power.
Doubles as both a portable recorder AND usb audio interface. Does 24/96khz and
records to Secure Digital. Operates on 2 AA batteries for up to 4 hours recording
time. Also includes built in guitar effects and can run as a four track.
Only downside is, you know the mic pres are going to suck and it only supports
up to 1gb SD cards. But otherwise, this is going to give the Edirol and Microcrap units
some serious competition.
I've been thinking that a combo portable stand alone recorder AND USB audio interface
was a good idea - really happy to see someone build something along those lines.
Street price ~$300. No date for availability announced - I'd expect at least 6 months though (it is NAMM afterall).
Can't wait to check it out!
Mandoman
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Street price ~$300. No date for availability announced - I'd expect at least 6 months though (it is NAMM afterall).
6 months! anybody heard anything else?
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The page says it can do multi-track recording... are there two other inputs on it? I'm not clear on how it would handle multi-tracking.
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damn, it does look amazing. for me the questions would be the quality of the built-in mics and the preamps of course. the website says it records to 2gb sd cards.
any more infor on this? release date?
randelph
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any more infor on this? release date?
I called several online retailers and the most common answer (besides "I don't know") was late September/early October.
I'm not sure I can put off my purchase that long so I might get the Edirol. But it sure looks interesting!
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Check out this new portable recording device announced at NAMM:
http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=1901&brandID=4
and
http://www.samash.com/catalog/showitem.asp?SKU=ZH4XXXXXX
This thing looks sweet. Built in mics, plus 2 neutrik mic pre's with 48v phantom power.
Doubles as both a portable recorder AND usb audio interface. Does 24/96khz and
records to Secure Digital. Operates on 2 AA batteries for up to 4 hours recording
time. Also includes built in guitar effects and can run as a four track.
Only downside is, you know the mic pres are going to suck and it only supports
up to 1gb SD cards. But otherwise, this is going to give the Edirol and Microcrap units
some serious competition.
I've been thinking that a combo portable stand alone recorder AND USB audio interface
was a good idea - really happy to see someone build something along those lines.
Street price ~$300. No date for availability announced - I'd expect at least 6 months though (it is NAMM afterall).
Can't wait to check it out!
Mandoman
on the weblink..
The H4 records on to Secure Digital (SD) media, a 128MB SD card is included with the unit. With a 2GB SD memory card, the H4 provides up to 380 minutes of recording in 16-bit mode (CD Quality), and 34 hours in MP3 stereo mode. And to move your recordings to a PC or Mac, the H4 includes a USB mass-storage
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I just pre- ordered a Samson H4 from sweetwater.com yesterday, and was told that the estimated ETA on them was sometime in early September.
I am looking forward to testing it against my Edirol R-09 and Microtrack (which if the H4 has pass through available, will be gone).
I really like the dual xlr/1/4 trs inputs with 48v phantom power and the layout. The new pictures of the actual unit on the Samson website. makes it look a bit like the Sony PCM-D1, only a hell of a lot cheaper.
(http://)
(http://)
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Did some Photoshop-skewing on that slanted picture, the side controls are:
- line output
- phones
- phones level
- power on/off
- usb
Roel
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Did some Photoshop-skewing on that slanted picture, the side controls are:
- line output
- phones
- phones level
- power on/off
- usb
Roel
I am wondering if there is a hold switch somewhere on the unit? Maybe it's on the other side of the unit ot the back.
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Damn, that thing looks like the Sony for about $1500 less. Can the mics detach?
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Damn, that thing looks like the Sony for about $1500 less. Can the mics detach?
No the mics are built in, and not removable.
I am also curious as to how well the built in pre amps work, if I am just using the built in mic, or my matched pair of Rode NT5 mics?
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The page says it can do multi-track recording... are there two other inputs on it? I'm not clear on how it would handle multi-tracking.
I'm curious about this as well. Also, if 2GB cards are the largest it will take, then it is almost useless for 4 track. 2 GB will get you about 1.5 hrs in 16/44 about 15 min in 24/96. If it will take a 4 gb card however it would be sweet for 16 bit 4 track.
Matt
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The page says it can do multi-track recording... are there two other inputs on it? I'm not clear on how it would handle multi-tracking.
I contacted samsom about this and the rep told me this is a 2 track recorder with 2 tracks of overdub. I'm trying to get a manual or atleast answers to weather or not it has digi in, max card size, and some basic specs that may indicate the quality of the pre's.
Matt
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maybe multitrack through built in mics+ xlr in's? looks pretty cool 8)
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the rep told me this is a 2 track recorder with 2 tracks of overdub.
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Here are the two responces I got from the rep
The multi-track capabilities of the Zoom H4 are limited to 16 bit/44.1kHz
and you can record 2 tracks simultaneously and overdub another 2 tracks.
The H4 was designed to be extremely versatile and offers unique advantages
for many different recording applications including Electronic News
Gathering, live performance recording, computer recording and portable
multi-tracking/scratchpad.
Thank You,
Rob Garofala
Samson Product Specialist
1-800-328-2882
rgarofala@samsontech.com
I appreciate your interest in your product. Since the H4 is still in
production, I cannot provide definite answers to many of your questions, nor
do I have a manual available. The H4 has a USB port for digital in/out.
The USB port can be used as a mass storage device (for file dump) or an
audio interface (for computer recording), but there is no S/PDIF or optical.
Right now I am being told that the H4 is compatible up to 2GB, but there
will probably be an update later to make the H4 handle bigger cards. The
file system will probably be proprietary like other Zoom recorders but I am
not definite. The exact specs are not yet released and will be uploaded to
www.samsontech.com <http://www.samsontech.com/> as soon as we get them.
Thank You,
Rob Garofala
Samson Product Specialist
1-800-328-2882
rgarofala@samsontech.com
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Inneresting. Thanks for doing the legwork...
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anyone have any more news? ???
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anyone have any more news? ???
What additional news are you looking for?
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anyone have any more news? ???
What additional news are you looking for?
firmer release date?
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anyone have any more news? ???
What additional news are you looking for?
firmer release date?
Ah, unfortunately the best I got, was sometime early Spetember (for the first shipment) from my rep at Sweetwater.
I will say that you may want to pre order one if you want one, like myself and many did for the Edirol R-09, as these might be hard to find for a while when they first come out.
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I will say that you may want to pre order one if you want one, like myself and many did for the Edirol R-09, as these might be hard to find for a while when they first come out.
Thanks, I'll probably do that. Only problem is that I have to have it by October 31st. If i can't get it by then I need to plan to get something else.
Any vendors you recommend i give my business to?
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I will say that you may want to pre order one if you want one, like myself and many did for the Edirol R-09, as these might be hard to find for a while when they first come out.
Thanks, I'll probably do that. Only problem is that I have to have it by October 31st. If i can't get it by then I need to plan to get something else.
Any vendors you recommend i give my business to?
Try contacting sweetwater.com or soundprofessionals.com, as they will get a god early shipment of them in.
The only thing with sweetwater and soundprofessionals tough is that the first shipment might have already been given out.
I pre ordered early enough (from sweetwater) that I should be in that first shipment.
I suggest calling them up, and seeing when they might be getting delivery (as mine could have changed as well).
BTW, Sweetwater assigns a rep to you which is nice.
I have dealt with soundprofessionals in the past and they are fantastic to deal with as well.
Both come highly recommended. :D
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Try contacting sweetwater.com or soundprofessionals.com, as they will get a god early shipment of them in.
The only thing with sweetwater and soundprofessionals tough is that the first shipment might have already been given out.
I pre ordered early enough (from sweetwater) that I should be in that first shipment.
I suggest calling them up, and seeing when they might be getting delivery (as mine could have changed as well).
BTW, Sweetwater assigns a rep to you which is nice.
I have dealt with soundprofessionals in the past and they are fantastic to deal with as well.
Both come highly recommended. :D
thanks vegas06!
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BTW Lokie, I just spoke to Sweetwater today, and was told they expect their first shippment of H4's to be sometime in late September/Early October.
Since they are one of the larger vendors, they should be one of the first in the country to recieve these.
BTW, my salesman over there is Art Hill.
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Wow! This is the first I've seen of this thread. :o This box looks like a stealther's dream. Let's hope the Pre/ADC is good on it. :)
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Wow! This is the first I've seen of this thread. :o This box looks like a stealther's dream. Let's hope the Pre/ADC is good on it. :)
Yeah it definitely looks very promissing.
I can't wait to get mine to put it through it's paces and compare it to my Microtrack and R-09.
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I can't take my eyes off of it. The XLRs, P48V, 24 bit, the size, ........ the whole schnizzle. :drool:
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BTW Lokie, I just spoke to Sweetwater today, and was told they expect their first shippment of H4's to be sometime in late September/Early October.
Since they are one of the larger vendors, they should be one of the first in the country to recieve these.
BTW, my salesman over there is Art Hill.
Pre-ordered one today. If it doesn't look like they'll be shipping by the October 20th or so I'll switch my order to the Edirol.
Thanks again for your help!
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http://www.soundonsound.com/news?NewsID=8507
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stealthing has become so much easier now huh? heheheh
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with a 2gb card size limit it isn't much more than a 16 bit recorder for what we do. The lack of digi in makes it mostly only suited for stealthing, unless the adc and analog componants are high quality. I'll be interested in seeing what this thing can do but I'm not throwing my dough out there for something like this unless it is proven. Though a new type of product like this should be marketable on ebay for slightly less than the investment if it is a flop for what we do.
I'll be interested to see how these things work out but I'm a bit pesimistic at this point. With all the usless (to us) features crammed into this thing and the price point, I can't immagine it is going to be the holy grail of recording devices. My initial interest in it was based on the "4-track" capabilities of it, but we already know it isn't a 4 track recorder.
Matt
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what would you do? i just got the edirol r-09 and like it quite a bit. but maybe the h4's going to be cat's-meow--x--4 better. who knows? that being the case, if you had thirty days in which to return the edirol would you do so and wait to see how the zoom product is? i don't have a pressing need for a recorder like this at the moment, so either way would be fine w me.
anyone have any idea about size differences?
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Damn! Why didn't anyone mention this when I asked about what digital recorder to buy! :(
My Eridol R-09 arrives Friday. Should I returnin it within the 30 day return period to wait on what the reviews are on this unit?
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Damn! Why didn't anyone mention this when I asked about what digital recorder to buy! :(
My Eridol R-09 arrives Friday. Should I returnin it within the 30 day return period to wait on what the reviews are on this unit?
probably because nobody knows a thing about it yet, whereas the R-09 has been somewhat proven in the field. i knew about the Zoom H4 in advance but still got an R-09 myself a few days ago. I had the same concerns but decided to go with the Edirol as i read so many nice things about it. Relax man...it'll all work out in the end. if you want to return the R-09 in 30 days by all means do so. i just got a notice from B&H this morning that said they're taking H4 pre-orders and it should arrive early October so maybe you'll have time to check out both.
peace and +t
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Yeah, I have had a pre-order with sweetwater.com for about a month now, and was told to expect delivery late Septmember or early Octobber.
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Samson's website says that the H4 is capable of providing phantom power, but it doesn't specifiy whether it's 48volts. They also say it can run for 4 hours on 2 AA batteries... I wonder if that's with phantom power engaged or not.
- Frank.
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Damn! Why didn't anyone mention this when I asked about what digital recorder to buy! :(
My Eridol R-09 arrives Friday. Should I returnin it within the 30 day return period to wait on what the reviews are on this unit?
probably because nobody knows a thing about it yet, whereas the R-09 has been somewhat proven in the field. i knew about the Zoom H4 in advance but still got an R-09 myself a few days ago. I had the same concerns but decided to go with the Edirol as i read so many nice things about it. Relax man...it'll all work out in the end. if you want to return the R-09 in 30 days by all means do so. i just got a notice from B&H this morning that said they're taking H4 pre-orders and it should arrive early October so maybe you'll have time to check out both.
peace and +t
Thanks for the calming words. :)
I guess for me it really doesn't make a difference. I don't need Phantom power, so unless the A->D and mic-pre are amazinglly better than the R-09, for my usasge it won't make a difference.
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Thanks for the calming words. :)
I guess for me it really doesn't make a difference. I don't need Phantom power, so unless the A->D and mic-pre are amazinglly better than the R-09, for my usasge it won't make a difference.
I am definitely interested in the XLR connectors, these will be an order of magnitude more robust than the R-09 1/8th mini-jacks and will allow me to plug my Rode NT-4 straight in (balanced). This unit's design looks perfect and is long overdue. I'd expect the next generation of Edirol/M-Audio products to follow suit.
Regards Scott
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I have to say I'm skeptical about this recorder. In my experience as a guitar player, Zoom has been the maker of cheap effects pedals in the flimsiest casings you've ever seen (contrast with Edirol, made by the same company that makes the indestructible Boss stompboxes), and the picture seems to indicate that this is the case. The feature set they're offering and price seems to be a little too good to be true. I'll bet those mics are crap, and/or the pre's are noisy, etc. I'll be receiving my R-09 next week and will have no doubts that it will be superior in every way to this recorder, other than lack of USB input, 96khz (which won't matter anyway if the pre's suck), and XLR jacks. MAYBE this will be a more effective bit bucket than the Microtrack, but that is my most optimistic hope for this device.
Believe me, I've been taping for 8 years, the R-09 is as close to perfect as a stealth recorder has ever come that was under $500 (my Oade mod PCM-M1 was awesome but darn pricey, and didn't do 24-bit :D), and just by looking at the Zoom model, I can tell that's not going to change.
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I'll bet those mics are crap, and/or the pre's are noisy, etc. I'll be receiving my R-09 next week and will have no doubts that it will be superior in every way to this recorder, other than lack of USB input, 96khz (which won't matter anyway if the pre's suck), and XLR jacks. MAYBE this will be a more effective bit bucket than the Microtrack, but that is
hm... I dont see what noisy pre's have to do with sounding good at 96khz.. with "noisy pre's", I would imagine it would effect all bitrates/khz.. and.. well.. without a digi in, I highly doubt it..
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Don't understand why manufacturers bother to put cheap mics on these recorders. I doubt any serious recorder who records at 24/96 want to record with those mics. It's such a waste of money/space/resources putting mics on high end recorders. Having a digital in would have been better/cheaper/ and more beneficial for us and them. I guess they spent a lot of time/money researching and developing those useless mics. Could have made the recorder even cheaper and smaller by removing those mics.
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Don't understand why manufacturers bother to put cheap mics on these recorders. I doubt any serious recorder who records at 24/96 want to record with those mics. It's such a waste of money/space/resources putting mics on high end recorders.
Well most serious recorders are in the minority compared to those who want to record lectures, meetings, jam-sessions or practice. I have sold 4 R-09s and 3 were to women and 1 was to a student (French Horn player). All were recording themselves playing their acoustic instruments 3 guitar players 1 French horn. By eliminating the internal mics they would be seriously limiting the market for their recorders.
Regards Scott
www.digifishmusic.com
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Don't understand why manufacturers bother to put cheap mics on these recorders. I doubt any serious recorder who records at 24/96 want to record with those mics. It's such a waste of money/space/resources putting mics on high end recorders.
Well most serious recorders are in the minority compared to those who want to record lectures, meetings, jam-sessions or practice. I have sold 4 R-09s and 3 were to women and 1 was to a student (French Horn player). All were recording themselves playing their acoustic instruments 3 guitar players 1 French horn. By eliminating the internal mics they would be seriously limiting the market for their recorders.
Regards Scott
www.digifishmusic.com
Totally understand, but those people can get a cheap little $9.99 mic from ebay. R-09 is good because the mics are sort of hidden or only take less than 10 % of the total recorder space. But the H4 mics sticks out as if it is a major part of the recorder. The MT doesn't even have a built in mic and I don't think that's M Audio's major complaint from MT users. I think users care about price and size more than built in mic feature.
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I can't take my eyes off of it. The XLRs, P48V, 24 bit, the size, ........ the whole schnizzle. :drool:
Yeah, w/the exception of the XLR's, it's got the same expectations as the MT 2496...
and of course we know what happened there...
:P
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Yeah, w/the exception of the XLR's, it's got the same expectations as the MT 2496...
and of course we know what happened there...
:P
Well, at $299 it's cheap enough to give a try and then sell on eBay if you don't like it for probably $20 loss :)
Regards Scott
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I'll bet those mics are crap, and/or the pre's are noisy, etc. I'll be receiving my R-09 next week and will have no doubts that it will be superior in every way to this recorder, other than lack of USB input, 96khz (which won't matter anyway if the pre's suck), and XLR jacks. MAYBE this will be a more effective bit bucket than the Microtrack, but that is
hm... I dont see what noisy pre's have to do with sounding good at 96khz.. with "noisy pre's", I would imagine it would effect all bitrates/khz.. and.. well.. without a digi in, I highly doubt it..
It has a USB input, and it is my understanding that some preamps have USB output? And perhaps I should have said "low fidelity" preamps, because you're right, high noise is only going to affect dynamic range. I'm talking about the idea that the preamp will not be as good as even the R-09 and therefore, like the microtrack, 96khz from the analog input has little point.
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Advertised in my new Full Compass catalog ($499).
Terry
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Advertised in my new Full Compass catalog ($499).
Terry
It might be advertised in the catalog at $499, but it's currently $299 everywhere on the net including reputable dealers like sweetwater.com. If you called Full Compas, I bet you they quote you $299.
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It's in the new BSW mini catalog I got yesterday for $300
http://www.bswusa.com/proditem.asp?item=H-4
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The maunual is now available online
http://www.samsontech.com/products/relatedDocs/H4_manual.pdf (http://www.samsontech.com/products/relatedDocs/H4_manual.pdf)
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The maunual is now available online
http://www.samsontech.com/products/relatedDocs/H4_manual.pdf (http://www.samsontech.com/products/relatedDocs/H4_manual.pdf)
Cool, and comes with Tuner...useful. :)
Regards Scott
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Sound Professionals had it in their montly news letter. Taking orders now for $300 and expect the first shipment to arrive in October.
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Any idea when in October?
I'm looking at buying one of these for a trip to Cambodia on the 19th.
Problem is, I live in the Middle East.
What do you think my chances of getting my hands on one and getting it delivered before the 17th or 18th?
Of course I'm looking at couriering it, it's just the worry of when it will be released.
Any insights or thoughts would be welcome. The unit looks tasty, especially having looked at the manual. Ta for posting the link.
Ian
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http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SAM-ZOOM-H4
Sorry, no idea on the dates...the newsletter just said:
New from Zoom! Pre-orders now accepted!
If you haven't heard, there is a new recorder coming from Zoom. Here are some of the unique features of this recorder:
- 2 combination XLR-1/4-inch input jacks with phantom power
- onboard studio effects such as compression, limiting and mic modeling
- 4-track recording mode for easy-to-use mobile multi-track recording
- Two studio quality X/Y pattern condenser microphones for true stereo recording
- Bundled with Cubase LE, 48-Track Digital Audio Workstation software
Pre-Order yours today! First shipment expected mid-October
Personally, I woudln't expect anything until November. These dates are always best case guesses and rarely seem to be met. I wouldn't chance it by depending on a mid-October date being a reality.
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BTW - just saw this on Soundprofessionals for US Buyers:
This item is eligible for FREE SHIPPING! Pre-order your H-4 before it is released and get free standard shipping within the continental USA! Enter code "zoomh4" in the coupon box when you checkout.
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I pre-ordered mine from sweetwater.com and tehy told me theyr were expecting delivery the first two weeks in October for their first shipment.
BTW, they also offer FREE SHIPPING on the unit.
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why don't any of these recorders offer a digi-in? is it that hard to incorporate?
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why don't any of these recorders offer a digi-in? is it that hard to incorporate?
I dont think it is that "hard" perse, but the products these companies (edirol, zoom, et al) are marketing are directed towards people who wouldnt use the spdf (or any digi ) in whatsoever... So, in their eyes, why waste the money on a product that will sell without it. Therefore, all that is left in the "bitbucket" arena so far is the Microtracker.
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I really wish I had super nerd brain power - I'd totally build a bit bucket and make millions selling it to v3 owners.
maybe we should all email grace and beg for v3 update that has a cf drive in it.
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I really wish I had super nerd brain power - I'd totally build a bit bucket and make millions selling it to v3 owners.
maybe we should all email grace and beg for v3 update that has a cf drive in it.
o I hear ya.. Ive borrowed a MT2496 and while it does "work", it is just too quirky for my liking. While many will tell you it is "stable", I bet they would move onto something like an R1 if it had a digi in. I hear you on the V3 bit bucket, as Id love to have something as reliable as my dap1 without having to spend 1500+(hpd2,pmd671 w. batts and media) on a "bit bucket".. It is verrrrrrrrrrrry tempting to pick up a sd722 to run line into from my v2 (sell the v3 and put money towards 722), but one of these days the perfect bit bucket will come out and ill smack myself in the head for selling my v3 (which I like very much).. one day.. I hope..
yeah.. we all want the V4 from grace.. a v3 with a CF slot.. that would be sweeet..
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I'd call the mt semi-stable, but its still frustrating when one of its little quirks come into play when the lights go down and the show starts. Sure, I always manage to fix it, but not until half way thru the first song. I'm about ready to give up on it.
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I'm very interested in the H4 and would like suggestions on how to adapt my mic to use with it. I have an AKG 822 that has a stereo mini plug but the H4 doesn't have a mini plug mic input.
Suggestions????
Thanks,
David
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I'm very interested in the H4 and would like suggestions on how to adapt my mic to use with it. I have an AKG 822 that has a stereo mini plug but the H4 doesn't have a mini plug mic input.
Suggestions????
Thanks,
David
Do you mean AT822? If so it should have come with an XLR > dual 1/4" mono cable as well. I can probably sell you mine cheap if you don't already have one.
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go get it
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=ShowProduct&is=REG&Q=&O=&sku=445854#
who's gonna be the first?
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I got to play with one last weekend at the Podcast Expo in Ontario, CA and I have to say this thing is sweet! I'm supposed to get one this week or next for evaluation and will report back when I do.
Craig
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I got to play with one last weekend at the Podcast Expo in Ontario, CA and I have to say this thing is sweet! I'm supposed to get one this week or next for evaluation and will report back when I do.
Craig
I should have mine sometime next week for review as well. As Sweetwaters first shipment is in transit from the manufacturer.
BTW Craig, how was the build on it?
I have heard that the build on Zooms products are cheaply made.
It looks solid from the pictures.
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I got to play with one last weekend at the Podcast Expo in Ontario, CA and I have to say this thing is sweet! I'm supposed to get one this week or next for evaluation and will report back when I do.
Craig
I should have mine sometime next week for review as well. As Sweetwaters first shipment is in transit from the manufacturer.
BTW Craig, how was the build on it?
I have heard that the build on Zooms products are cheaply made.
It looks solid from the pictures.
The build seemed solid (a lot more solid than the MT), although the units I played with were final prototypes. I've had no problems with the build on other Zoom products I've owned. When I spoke with the reps on Friday they said the first shipment was on its way from China (?) and would be in retailers this week.
Craig
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Craig,
Did you listen to the Pre on it, when you played with it at the show? How does it sound?
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What kind of battery life can you get on it? Seeing that it uses 2 AA batteries is no biggie since it probably uses very little power, but if you use your own mics and the 48v phantom power 2 little AA's seem like they wouldn't last very long at all.
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Just an update on my H4 order from sweetwater.com.
It seems that they got their first shipment of H4's in today, and have processed most of the pre-orders (not all). Luckily it seems that I was one of the first pre-orders placed they charged my card), and I should be receiving mine in teh coming week.
Cool, can't wait to try it out against my R-09 and Microtrack. :D
"Correction on my post... As my H4 is beinmg shipped to me as I write this." ;D
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Did you listen to the Pre on it, when you played with it at the show? How does it sound?
There was too much background noise around the booth to be able to test the pres, but I've been told by two people independently at Samson that they're really happy with them. Time will tell.
As for battery life, the company is claiming up to 4 hours which I assume is with the internal mics. Figure on cutting that in half for an external mic with phantom power, so you're probably going to want to use this with an external battery pack.
I can tell you that there wasn't a single podcaster I spoke with who saw this that didn't want one!
UPDATE: Mine's on its way as well.
Craig
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I am missing something or does this recorder not have a line in switch. I need line in for any recorder I would buy.
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I am missing something or does this recorder not have a line in switch. I need line in for any recorder I would buy.
Each input (as well as the built-in mics) has its own Lo/Mid/Hi-Gain switch. Set Input 1 and Input 2 to Lo-Gain and use the 1/4" inputs for line in (according to the brochure).
Also, I'm not sure if I've seen this anywhere else but it comes with a tripod adapter and wind screen. It also has internal mic modeling for an SM57, MD421, U87, and C414 (for use with the built-in mics only of course). Phantom power is switchable between 24V and 48V. The AC adapter is 9V, interestingly enough.
Craig
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I saw one today at my local Sam Ash. Very tempting, but did not pull the trigger. The sales guy said they just got them yesterday.
Pat
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As with everyone else I'm sure, I am very curious to hear how the pre sounds on this. Also wonder how much gain they offer.
edit: ergh...ok...i'm rtfm now (sorry...didn't see the link to it previously). The 2GB limit is a pita. I guess that rules out 24/96 for my/most of our purposes...but 24/48 may be doable.
To whoever was asking about the hold-switch:
The H4 allows you to lock the operation keys to prevent inadvertent operation during a recording.This function is called “key-hold”. To enable or disable the function, proceed as follows
1. Set the H4 to the playback or recording condition. Once key-hold has been enabled, most keypresses will be disregarded. This allows you to maintain the current operating condition of the unit.
2. Press and hold the center of the [MENU] key until the indication “Key Hold” appears on the display.The key-hold function is enabled and all control operations will be disregarded, except for the [POWER] switch, [MIC GAIN] switch, [INPUT 1 GAIN] switch, [INPUT 2 GAIN] switch, [PHONES LEVEL] and the center of the [MENU] key.
When a disabled control is operated, the indication shown below appears on the display for 2 seconds.
Eesh...so it looks like those switches down the right aren't locked. I hope they are...err...'embedded' well.
It sounds like gain is adjustable in 127 steps (100 is 'unity'?) - but its buried in a menu and looks like it is clunky to adjust. Seems ass-backwards to have H/M/L-Z adjustable at the flick of a switch but gain buried. *shrug*
So it looks ilke this thing's not firmware upgradeable eh? I hope its perfect outta the box (not holding my breath).
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As with everyone else I'm sure, I am very curious to hear how the pre sounds on this. Also wonder how much gain they offer.
The manual is now online:
http://www.samsontech.com/products/relatedDocs/H4_manual.pdf
Craig
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Just got mine delivered to work! Seems sturdy enough but I won't get a real chance to check it out until I get home this evening. I'm excited though!
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Just got mine delivered to work! Seems sturdy enough but I won't get a real chance to check it out until I get home this evening. I'm excited though!
I am stoked, as I just got mine at work to!
I just received my NEW Zoom H4 Handy Recorder, and I'm impressed with the units build quality, as it's more substantial than my Microtrack and Edirol R-09 recorder.
It's slightly larger than my R-09 and slightly larger than my Microtrack.
The body feels solidly built as do the built in X/Y stereo mics. It comes with a tripod adapter than attaches to teh recorder via velcro loops, which is nice, and also comes with a wind muff, which looks funny covering the mics, but again it's nice to have.
As far as I can tell you won't be able to use a lav mic with this, unless you get one that utilizes either XLR or 1/4 plug input. That's ok as the unit is a bit large anyway to use for lav miccing use. I'd stick with my R-09 if necessary. However for everything else live event audio rerlated it should work great.
I am at work right now so I don't have access to batteries to try it out, but hope to use it sometime this weekend.
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If any of you guys can upload a sample recording when you get around to it, I'd greatly appreciate it. I'd like to see how the Pre sounds. Thank you. :)
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And I'd be VERY interested in battery life when phantom powering mics. Maybe it's doable with lithium AAs?
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Please let us know how the built-in mics sound.
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Hi Everybody:
Well, we received our first small shipment of H4's today (Samson is only shipping partial orders to dealers at this time). Anyway, after a quick look and listen I have to say that I am pleasantly surprised. The build quality is better than expected....pretty solid. I gave the built in mics a quick listen......they sounded decent, but perhaps a bit dull in the highs. Again, after a quick listen, the noise level seemed OK.
All of this is subjective, as I can't hang on to one right now....too many people waiting for them. More to come in the future....
Chris Carfagno
The Sound Professionals, Inc
800-213-3021
www.soundprofessionals.com
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Hi Everybody:
Well, we received our first small shipment of H4's today (Samson is only shipping partial orders to dealers at this time). Anyway, after a quick look and listen I have to say that I am pleasantly surprised. The build quality is better than expected....pretty solid. I gave the built in mics a quick listen......they sounded decent, but perhaps a bit dull in the highs. Again, after a quick listen, the noise level seemed OK.
All of this is subjective, as I can't hang on to one right now....too many people waiting for them. More to come in the future....
Chris Carfagno
The Sound Professionals, Inc
800-213-3021
www.soundprofessionals.com
+thanks. Keep us posted dude.
Richard
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A video displaying the H4 at the Ontario, CA Expo last week. The hosts are complete morons and don't give the Samson rep enough time to show features, since he's constanttly dealing with their bad jokes. This video has 2 Samson products, a LD USB mic and the H4. Move the slider to about the halfway mark, and the H4 presentation will begin.
http://www.neo-fight.tv/2006/10/episode_075_samson_technologie.html
The H4 is definitely bigger than the Edirols and Microtrack, but smaller than the Marantz 660.
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Can we get a picture of the h4 next to a microtrack and r09?
Thanks,
Mandoman
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"The H4 allows you to lock the operation keys to prevent inadvertent operation during a recording.This function is called “key-hold”. To enable or disable the function, proceed as follows"
This is correct.
" Press and hold the center of the [MENU] key until the indication “Key Hold” appears on the display.The key-hold function is enabled and all control operations will be disregarded, except for the [POWER] switch, [MIC GAIN] switch, [INPUT 1 GAIN] switch, [INPUT 2 GAIN] switch, [PHONES LEVEL] and the center of the [MENU] key.
When a disabled control is operated, the indication shown below appears on the display for 2 seconds.
Eesh...so it looks like those switches down the right aren't locked. I hope they are...err...'embedded' well."
These buttons are locked,while you are recording, regardless of wheather "Key Hold" is engaged or not. The only way to change your recording format is to stop recording and select your format and bitrate.
"It sounds like gain is adjustable in 127 steps (100 is 'unity'?) - but its buried in a menu and looks like it is clunky to adjust. Seems ass-backwards to have H/M/L-Z adjustable at the flick of a switch but gain buried. *shrug*"
You are able to leave your gain adjustment up in the menu so you can adjust on the fly if needed. Both L/R grouped using onbaord mic, or independant using pug in mics. And you can adjust the input levels while the unit is locked.
"So it looks ilke this thing's not firmware upgradeable eh?"
It is firmware upgradeable, just don't know who will have the firmware upgrades..Samson or Zoom.
I hope this helps to answer some questions.
All in all it seems like it will be a very good recorder. I only had a small chance to play with my new one last night.
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from the video, it looks quite a bit bigger than the edirol. i can stick the edirol in my shirt pocket and no one can see it (well, there is that red light ....) but it seems to me the H4 would stick out a lot.
i
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from the video, it looks quite a bit bigger than the edirol. i can stick the edirol in my shirt pocket and no one can see it (well, there is that red light ....) but it seems to me the H4 would stick out a lot.
i
It is bigger and more substantial than the R-09, but about the same size as the microtrack.
I wouldn't put it in a grooms pocket for a wedding. But it could still easily fit into your coat pocket.
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Have you tried recording with it yet, like your home stereo, to see how it sounds?
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from the video, it looks quite a bit bigger than the edirol. i can stick the edirol in my shirt pocket and no one can see it (well, there is that red light ....) but it seems to me the H4 would stick out a lot.
i
It is bigger and more substantial than the R-09, but about the same size as the microtrack.
I wouldn't put it in a grooms pocket for a wedding. But it could still easily fit into your coat pocket.
hmm, maybe just big enough for some mods... :)
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It is bigger and more substantial than the R-09, but about the same size as the microtrack.
I wouldn't put it in a grooms pocket for a wedding. But it could still easily fit into your coat pocket.
It seems quite a bit bigger than the MT to me, I'll try to get a picture up comparing them. The MT disappears into a shirt pocket, while the Zoom will stick up and create a much bigger bulge.
Jeff
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Here ya go.
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I'm testing it now with at AT835ST, which is supposed to take 4ma per channel, using Sony 2500 mAh AAs. I am using a 2GB SD card because it doesn't even see a 4GB HCSD card as being there. I hope this will give an indication of what to expect on battery life.
Jeff
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Here ya go.
Sorry, I stand corrected on that one.
However, I wouldn't need to stick it in a shirt pocket, as I use it in deifferent surroundings, as I don't have the need for something that small to be sneaked into a venue in a shirt pocket.
I normally use these recorders for placement on podiums for capturing speehces and readings, or mount it on a mic stand and run mics into the unit. I mount to a mic stand using a Windtec add on clamp (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=298906&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation), as well a double mic the stand using a double mic stand adapter. This way I can mount everything on a mic stand, be very small in form factor, and pickup and move where ever I need to at a moments notice.
Basically I need the a recorder small enough in size size to mount on a mic stand, or hide to capture audio which rules out the larger units like the Edirol R-4 type recorders for me.
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Each time the recording ended, either because I pushed stop or because it halted when the card was full, the recorder reverted to internal mics with phantom power off. Has anyone found a way to keep the settings fixed?
Jeff
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Some interesting discussion by folks testing out their Zoom H4s (although largely not in a live taping enviornment) here:
http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=6906&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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I'll try to get some samples up over the weekend. I taped a piano recital this afternoon, my main setup was Josephson C617s with Gefell MK 102.1 large diaphragm caps spaced on a stand about 4-5 feet from the piano and 6 1/2-7 feet high, with a feeble baffle in between the mics to try to get a bit more stereo image, into a SD722. I used the Enhanced Audio mounts Teddy convinced me to get and which worked very nicely the past two weeks. My standard backup was DPA 4060s into MMA6000 preamp to Sony D1, about 3 feet back of the stand where I was sitting. I hung the Zoom H4 on the stand about 2 1/2 feet under the Josephsons using the tripod mount and some rubber bands, and had an AT835ST rubber banded near it, using the wide cardioid setting and pointing straight into the piano lid. The Zoom provided the 48V phantom and was set at M and levels at 100, I didn't have time for a separate sound check but it looks like I was okay. All these were done at 24/96, and of course the H4 stopped when it hit 2GB so I will not have everything (but about 40 minutes of Chopin and Ravel) to compare. It looked really neat with its record light and green 96kH indicator glowing and the red "access" light blinking like a warning to low flying planes (hey, this is NYC, not a bad feature). The H4 playback throught earphones is a bit thin and tinny, but I don't think this is going to be true of the wav files.
Jeff
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Thanks Jeff, Can't wait to get a sample. Yeah, its hard to find a good pair of earphones with true bass. I'm sure it will sound fine when you get it on the workbench.
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Thanks Jeff, Can't wait to get a sample. Yeah, its hard to find a good pair of earphones with true bass. I'm sure it will sound fine when you get it on the workbench.
It's not the earphones (I use Etymotics) but the headphone amp or DACs in the H4, I think (even my 722 sometimes scares me on headphone out, when the sound files are perfectly good). I haven't tried the H4 line out. I hope to get to downsampling and dithering to CD by Monday (lots of events tomorrow and Sunday), and will flac some 24/96 files of a Chopin Polonaise. The H4 file sounds fine in my computer, but the Josephsons blow away the ATs (and most other things).
Jeff
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Here's a great thread where one of the Admin's tested out the H4. On page 1, he included 1 sample where he recorded multiple tracks and then mixed them. On Page 2, he also recorded a bunch of guitar effect files displaying the H4's sound effects. All recorded with the unit's on-board mics. Test coming soon with condensors.
http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=6906
Looks like the only downer for those who like to adjust levels on the fly: the jog wheel controls the levels.
Close up pictures:
http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=6988
Complete forum:
http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewforum.php?f=15
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I just bought one on eBay. Can't wait till it arrives. Though I have not heard any condensor recordings, I was impressed with the sound coming from the on-board mics. The ADC seems to do a pretty good job too. This unit will strictly be my >:D rig. Its worth the $299 roll of the dice, IMO.
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The H4 file sounds fine in my computer, but the Josephsons blow away the ATs (and most other things).
Which are those "most other things"? Can you name others that were equal or better?
The Josephson comparison included the AT835ST?
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The H4 file sounds fine in my computer, but the Josephsons blow away the ATs (and most other things).
Which are those "most other things"? Can you name others that were equal or better?
The Josephson comparison included the AT835ST?
I have tried several setups with piano in the same hall (but not generally simultaneously). The things I tried were: Schoeps MK2S > CMC6XT, Sanken CO100K, DPA4052. I generally backup with DPA4060>MMA6000>D1. These all sound superb, sometimes the backup rivalled the more expensvie mic setup (different positions and baffling), but I am convinced that the Josephsons with larger diameter diaphragm caps do the best job. The AT835ST comparison was the most exact on placement and material recorded, but the ATs cost about 1/4 what the others do, and it sounds it.
Jeff
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I have tried several setups with piano in the same hall (but not generally simultaneously). The things I tried were: Schoeps MK2S > CMC6XT, Sanken CO100K, DPA4052. I generally backup with DPA4060>MMA6000>D1. These all sound superb, sometimes the backup rivalled the more expensvie mic setup (different positions and baffling), but I am convinced that the Josephsons with larger diameter diaphragm caps do the best job. The AT835ST comparison was the most exact on placement and material recorded, but the ATs cost about 1/4 what the others do, and it sounds it.
Thanks for your comments. I didn't know the MMA6000 or the D1. The MMA very much influenced a preamp I designed in 2000, which you can see here:
http://www.preciseaudio.com/brochure.html
My unit had balanced/XLR inputs & outputs, which the MMA does not seem to have but were very important on this application. The internal circuitry was based around the SSM2017, which I am not sure if it's what the MMA uses.
But coming back to the H4, I am very much interested in it, as an alternative to the M-Audio 24/96 and the Edirol R-09. Particularly because the H4 offers XLR inputs and 48v phantom power.
My application would always be field recording, as a backup or double-system audio for video/film recordings.
How good are the internal preamps as compared to the MMA6000?
Is it difficult to setup for recording, meaning how many steps until getting to REC/Pause?
One thing I found irritating on my Sony Hi-MD portable is that it's default is "AGC" instead of "Manual", so you can't go straight into REC/Pause as was in my Sharp 722.
How would that be in the H4?
My idea is probably to use an external preamp/mixer to feed line level signals into the H4, but having a simpler option, like feeding quality mics (like Sennheiser MKH416 or Oktavas) into it would be interesting too.
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This thing will recognize a 4 GB card!!!! :o I did some googling and found a Japanese website. Google's translator is poor (BETA, figures ::)) , but the guy shows pictures of the H4's screen, showing the correct time for 4GB. And its a Transcend card too. Woot!! Looks like he was able to record until the card was full, but was not able to open the 4GB file with his software. R09 can record continous on 4GB card too, with no 2GB limit. No 2GB limit! Yes!
Here's the original, untranslated page.
http://www.orchestra.ne.jp/html/modules/wordpress/
Here's the Google page. You'll see the link(s) (myweblog) about 5 links down the page. Click on Google's translator, unless you have a better one.
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22zoom+h4%22+4gb+card&hl=en&lr=&start=30&sa=N
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I have tried several setups with piano in the same hall (but not generally simultaneously). The things I tried were: Schoeps MK2S > CMC6XT, Sanken CO100K, DPA4052. I generally backup with DPA4060>MMA6000>D1. These all sound superb, sometimes the backup rivalled the more expensvie mic setup (different positions and baffling), but I am convinced that the Josephsons with larger diameter diaphragm caps do the best job. The AT835ST comparison was the most exact on placement and material recorded, but the ATs cost about 1/4 what the others do, and it sounds it.
Thanks for your comments. I didn't know the MMA6000 or the D1. The MMA very much influenced a preamp I designed in 2000, which you can see here:
http://www.preciseaudio.com/brochure.html
My unit had balanced/XLR inputs & outputs, which the MMA does not seem to have but were very important on this application. The internal circuitry was based around the SSM2017, which I am not sure if it's what the MMA uses.
But coming back to the H4, I am very much interested in it, as an alternative to the M-Audio 24/96 and the Edirol R-09. Particularly because the H4 offers XLR inputs and 48v phantom power.
My application would always be field recording, as a backup or double-system audio for video/film recordings.
How good are the internal preamps as compared to the MMA6000?
Is it difficult to setup for recording, meaning how many steps until getting to REC/Pause?
One thing I found irritating on my Sony Hi-MD portable is that it's default is "AGC" instead of "Manual", so you can't go straight into REC/Pause as was in my Sharp 722.
How would that be in the H4?
My idea is probably to use an external preamp/mixer to feed line level signals into the H4, but having a simpler option, like feeding quality mics (like Sennheiser MKH416 or Oktavas) into it would be interesting too.
Carlos, I can't comment on teh MMA pramp as I ahve never used it. But in regrads to you question on how easy it is to setup and record, the answer is very. just go into your seup menu, and select either built in mic or ch1/ch2 mic setup, 48v phantom on/off/48v/24v, turn limiter/compressor on/off, AGC on/off, set levels (which you can do even when not in record or record standby mode if you set monitor to on so you can always monitor sound even during playback).
Push record button once to go into standby and again to start recording, push record again to stop recording and push teh record button twice again to record next track.
Once you make these setup options, the H4 will remember them the next time you power up the unit. So you wouldn't have to worry about things sych as the AGC being turned on for recording your next gig.
Also the onboard preamps seem pretty quiet, as I have done a test using the built in mics, as well as 48v phantom using my matched pair of Rode NT5 mics. Next I hope to test an AT822 in stereo fed to both channels, as well as my AT815B and rode NTG2/and or NT3 fed into channels 1/2.
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This thing will recognize a 4 GB card!!!! :o I did some googling and found a Japanese website. Google's translator is poor (BETA, figures ::)) , but the guy shows pictures of the H4's screen, showing the correct time for 4GB. And its a Transcend card too. Woot!! Looks like he was able to record until the card was full, but was not able to open the 4GB file with his software. R09 can record continous on 4GB card too, with no 2GB limit. No 2GB limit! Yes!
Here's the original, untranslated page.
http://www.orchestra.ne.jp/html/modules/wordpress/
Here's the Google page. You'll see the link(s) (myweblog) about 5 links down the page. Click on Google's translator, unless you have a better one.
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22zoom+h4%22+4gb+card&hl=en&lr=&start=30&sa=N
While my H4 works perfectly with a 2GB card, when I put a Panasonic 4GB SD card in it just says "no card" on the display.
Jeff
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I can't comment on teh MMA pramp as I ahve never used it.
That part of the question was adressed to Jeff.
But in regrads to you question on how easy it is to setup and record, the answer is very. just go into your seup menu, and select either built in mic or ch1/ch2 mic setup, 48v phantom on/off/48v/24v, turn limiter/compressor on/off, AGC on/off, set levels (which you can do even when not in record or record standby mode if you set monitor to on so you can always monitor sound even during playback).
Push record button once to go into standby and again to start recording, push record again to stop recording and push teh record button twice again to record next track.
Once you make these setup options, the H4 will remember them the next time you power up the unit. So you wouldn't have to worry about things sych as the AGC being turned on for recording your next gig.
Now that's very good news!
Also the onboard preamps seem pretty quiet, as I have done a test using the built in mics, as well as 48v phantom using my matched pair of Rode NT5 mics. Next I hope to test an AT822 in stereo fed to both channels, as well as my AT815B and rode NTG2/and or NT3 fed into channels 1/2.
I am quite interested in those Rode mics. My personal preference is for a AKG Blue Line pair that I set in an X/Y arrangement and it's extremely transparent. Even for recording with one mic, as we once did for a violin and piano, the mic was better than my Sennheiser MKH416, which is quite a mic. I have been considering getting a large-diaphragm type, like the LDS2, but I wonder if it's the best type for the kind of music I intend to record.
Carlos
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This thing will recognize a 4 GB card!!!! :o I did some googling and found a Japanese website. Google's translator is poor (BETA, figures ::)) , but the guy shows pictures of the H4's screen, showing the correct time for 4GB. And its a Transcend card too. Woot!! Looks like he was able to record until the card was full, but was not able to open the 4GB file with his software. R09 can record continous on 4GB card too, with no 2GB limit. No 2GB limit! Yes!
Here's the original, untranslated page.
http://www.orchestra.ne.jp/html/modules/wordpress/
Here's the Google page. You'll see the link(s) (myweblog) about 5 links down the page. Click on Google's translator, unless you have a better one.
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22zoom+h4%22+4gb+card&hl=en&lr=&start=30&sa=N
While my H4 works perfectly with a 2GB card, when I put a Panasonic 4GB SD card in it just says "no card" on the display.
Jeff
I didn't know Panasonic had a SD card. I'm gonna order a Transcend 4GB card today. I'll try it out when my H4 arrives. The Transcend SDs have been working in the R09's as well, but doesn't show the correct time and size. Judging from the above link, they appear to be recognized by the H4 correctly and work.
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Can anyone measure the voltage with the phantom on?
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Can anyone measure the voltage with the phantom on?
What do you wnt to know?
The H4 can supply either 24V or 48V phantom power, you chose your setting Phantom 24V/48V/OFF.
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Can anyone measure the voltage with the phantom on?
What do you wnt to know?
The H4 can supply either 24V or 48V phantom power, you chose your setting Phantom 24V/48V/OFF.
He wants someone to *measure it*. Remember the microtrack claiming to be 48V. Well, we want to see if the volts are really there :).
Richard
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The H4 can supply either 24V or 48V phantom power, you chose your setting Phantom 24V/48V/OFF.
Just to know: where did you get those H4s? They are not being delivered in the US yet, as far as I know. Or are they?
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The H4 can supply either 24V or 48V phantom power, you chose your setting Phantom 24V/48V/OFF.
Just to know: where did you get those H4s? They are not being delivered in the US yet, as far as I know. Or are they?
Got mine from sweetwater.com, but they sold out of their first shipment just filling most of the pre orders.
Try them, B&H, or soundprofessioanls.com.
Although, like the R-09 when it first came out, most paces might be sold out for a while.
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I got mine off of eBay. The seller also has his own website: www.musicwonderland.com. I paid $299.00 and he threw in a set of 20ft Whirlwind mics cables. Shipping was free. I received confirmation today that my H4 is in the mail. Should have it by Friday. Its coming from Miami.
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[I didn't know Panasonic had a SD card. I'm gonna order a Transcend 4GB card today. I'll try it out when my H4 arrives. The Transcend SDs have been working in the R09's as well, but doesn't show the correct time and size. Judging from the above link, they appear to be recognized by the H4 correctly and work.
I ordered a Transcend card, which should arrive in time to test it this coming Friday. The Panasonic seems to be one of the newer SD "HC" cards and that may be why it doesn't work in the H4, if I can get two hours at 24/96 it is somewhat useful gear. I have burned audio CDs of the three versions of the piano recital, and will prepare a CD-ROM with one piece as recorded in three 24/96 wav files for whoever wants, happy to mail them out later in the week, just pm me a mailing address.
Jeff
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I ordered a Transcend card, which should arrive in time to test it this coming Friday. The Panasonic seems to be one of the newer SD "HC" cards and that may be why it doesn't work in the H4, if I can get two hours at 24/96 it is somewhat useful gear.
Where did you order the Transcend card from? How much was it?
What card types do work with the H4?
B&H is already tabbed the H4 as "in stock", so maybe it's a chance to get one.
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I ordered a Transcend card, which should arrive in time to test it this coming Friday. The Panasonic seems to be one of the newer SD "HC" cards and that may be why it doesn't work in the H4, if I can get two hours at 24/96 it is somewhat useful gear.
Where did you order the Transcend card from? How much was it?
What card types do work with the H4?
B&H is already tabbed the H4 as "in stock", so maybe it's a chance to get one.
www.newegg.com
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www.newegg.com
Is this the one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820163159
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That's it! :)
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My H4 arrived today! :)
Started right up, out of the box. Took only 1/2 hour of playing with it, to get it where I want it (for starts). Decent metering. Phantom power works fine on the AT853Rxs, no issues so far. Love the gain settings. Very transparent sound. I'll try to get some battery life times posted and do some more thorough testing. Maiden voyage is Saturday night, hopefully.
I ordered a Transcend 4GB SD card from newegg. I'm hoping it makes it here by Saturday, for the 2Gb card I have is being included with my R09 deal I just made.
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I got my Transcend 4GB card this morning. It did record a 4GB file to the card, will try to play with the file tonight to see what I got. I find I get 4 hours at 24/96 with phantom 4mA per channel, with a 2500 mAh AA set. I am going to try it with Neumann 184s tomorrow, these are less sensitive than the AT835ST I have been using so I am going to use M setting with levels maxed out (may have to go to H).
Jeff
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Awesome Jeff! Did the Transcend 4GB show the proper time remaining and card size? .
+T on the nice job. ;D
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Did the Transcend 4GB show the proper time remaining and card size? .
When I put it in, fresh out of the box, it showed 3.9+ GB free. It showed the correct elapsed time as it recorded, up until it stopped when the card was full. I have a CD ready with about 190 MB of 24/96 wav files of the Chopin Waltz Op64#1 from three setups, the H4 was fed by an AT835ST, against a SD722 fed by Josephson C617s and a Sony D1 with DPA4060s to an MMA6000, too much bandswidth for me to post as a dialup fossil but I'm happy to mail it to anyone interested who pms me an address. The Neumanns should give a more interesting comparison, if I can ace the levels as I did with the ATs.
Jeff
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Sweet! ;D Nice work. I think this puppy's gonna be a big winner.
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I find I get 4 hours at 24/96 with phantom 4mA per channel, with a 2500 mAh AA set.
Probably a stupid question. You got 4 hours recording @ 24/96 on the 4GB card or four hours from the 2500mA battery set?
I am going to try it with Neumann 184s tomorrow, these are less sensitive than the AT835ST I have been using so I am going to use M setting with levels maxed out (may have to go to H).
They are less sensitive or have less output? Old Neumanns used to be the latter.
In any case it should be a good test for the H4 preamps.
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I find I get 4 hours at 24/96 with phantom 4mA per channel, with a 2500 mAh AA set.
Probably a stupid question. You got 4 hours recording @ 24/96 on the 4GB card or four hours from the 2500mA battery set?
I am going to try it with Neumann 184s tomorrow, these are less sensitive than the AT835ST I have been using so I am going to use M setting with levels maxed out (may have to go to H).
They are less sensitive or have less output? Old Neumanns used to be the latter.
In any case it should be a good test for the H4 preamps.
Four hours was running a 2GB card at 24/96 four times for one hour each, since that's all you can get on a 2GB card. The 4 GB Transcend gives you actually 118 minutes. I took the file tonight into cdwave, which reports it as having a header with the wrong file info. If you tell cdwave to ignore the header, it loads correctly and can be split into nice pieces that will be read by Wavelab.
I was referring to output sensitivity, the ATs were rated 31.6 mV/Pa while the Neumanns are only 15. I hope I don't have to go to H, though I guess that would give a read on the preamp quality.
Jeff
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The 4 GB Transcend gives you actually 118 minutes.
That's quite good.
I took the file tonight into cdwave, which reports it as having a header with the wrong file info. If you tell cdwave to ignore the header, it loads correctly and can be split into nice pieces that will be read by Wavelab.
Is it recorded as a wav file, right? Can you import from Sound Forge or Audition?
I was referring to output sensitivity, the ATs were rated 31.6 mV/Pa while the Neumanns are only 15. I hope I don't have to go to H, though I guess that would give a read on the preamp quality.
I'd say the ATs are quite on the high side. I was having a look at some of the mics I use, like the AKG Blue Lines, and they are between 10 and 20 mV/Pa. A C414, quite used in the music industry, is 12.5mV. The C426 is just 11mV. The Neumann belongs in that group.
So I am quite interested in that test you intend to perform.
Things would get more serious if you were to use a dynamic, which are less than 2 mV! In fact you should perform such a test with a quality ribbon mic too, if possible.
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Scanned the H4 manual, and still wondered if manual REC level adjustments can be made WHILE ACTIVELY RECORDING, or do you need to drill back into the menu (maybe with deck NOT actively recording) to control level settings?
Also wondered if when in stereo mode BOTH channels can be ganged to change REC levels together, or does each channel need be level adjusted individually?
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Scanned the H4 manual, and still wondered if manual REC level adjustments can be made WHILE ACTIVELY RECORDING, or do you need to drill back into the menu (maybe with deck NOT actively recording) to control level settings?
Also wondered if when in stereo mode BOTH channels can be ganged to change REC levels together, or does each channel need be level adjusted individually?
Yes you can make adjustments to the REC levels, as long as you don't have the "Key Lock" (Hold) set to on.
Both channels are ganged when using teh units built in mics. But as far as I've been able to figure out, you can only adjust L/R/ channels independantly and not grouped when using external mics.
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So how does the hold work again? You press the button down and hold it and after a bit it locks? How do you unlock? How well does it work in actual use?
How easy is it to change levels in a pocket - unlock, adjust, re-lock?
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So how does the hold work again? You press the button down and hold it and after a bit it locks? How do you unlock? How well does it work in actual use?
How easy is it to change levels in a pocket - unlock, adjust, re-lock?
Yes, you press down on the "Menu" button and wait until the the "Locked Keys" message appears. Just like the Nomad Jukebox 3. You repeat the step, to unlock it. Hold and Release takes about 5 seconds.
Changing the levels on the fly can be a PITA. There are no external buttons to do level adjustments. You have to drill down through the menu. You shift the "Menu" button down, click on "Levels", and adjust each level appropriately using the Jog Wheel. Then click the "Menu" button to save your settings, and relock the keys. If you have mastered this, adjustment to levels should take only a few seconds. It will need practice. I assume most will use this recorder for their >:D rig. Therefore, only used for special occasions. You might be better served to just "set it and forget it" I can't see adjusting levels while recorder is in your pocket without out a high risk of a mistake.
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Especially at 24 bit, why bother with changing levels on the fly? Just learn your gear and set them somewhere safe and forget about it.
Are there any problems with the headers on files <2 GB but on a 4G card? Any problem starting a new file on a 4G card with >2G already filled?
Also, supposing one wanted to keep their files under 2G, how long does it take to stop and restart a recording? Any way to split off a new track on the fly?
+T to the early adopters!
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Especially at 24 bit, why bother with changing levels on the fly? Just learn your gear and set them somewhere safe and forget about it.
I mostly know what to expect for levels but not always.. Because you don't control what the performers on stage do or the soundguy.. I regularly run at a venue where I may need 50-55 dB of gain or only 20... You show up and are stage lip.. You don't know where the trumpets will be on stage, nor how loud they will be blown... Same with drum kits. Being 6' from the kit.. Is it going to be brutal or is he going to play soft?
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So how does the hold work again? You press the button down and hold it and after a bit it locks? How do you unlock? How well does it work in actual use?
How easy is it to change levels in a pocket - unlock, adjust, re-lock?
Yes, you press down on the "Menu" button and wait until the the "Locked Keys" message appears. Just like the Nomad Jukebox 3. You repeat the step, to unlock it. Hold and Release takes about 5 seconds.
Changing the levels on the fly can be a PITA. There are no external buttons to do level adjustments. You have to drill down through the menu. You shift the "Menu" button down, click on "Levels", and adjust each level appropriately using the Jog Wheel. Then click the "Menu" button to save your settings, and relock the keys. If you have mastered this, adjustment to levels should take only a few seconds. It will need practice. I assume most will use this recorder for their >:D rig. Therefore, only used for special occasions. You might be better served to just "set it and forget it" I can't see adjusting levels while recorder is in your pocket without out a high risk of a mistake.
Actually you can leave the level adjustment screen up while you are recording so you can make changes on the fly if needed that way. Not too hard really. I peffer to do a sound check first, set the limiters and let it record. So there really isn't a need for me to adjust the volume once I start recording.
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The H4 will not format a 4GB card. Luckily I discovered that before going out to record, formated the card on my computer and it seemed to work well. I have a 3GB file now to split in cdwave, it will not play back in the H4 so far as I can figure out so I'm not sure how it came out. The Neumann mics surprised me by seeming to run the recorder as hot as the much more sensitive AT835ST, luckily I got a brief chance to adjust levels (but I'm not used to the scale on the H4 yet). The L/R adjust separately, but there's a number on the upper right part of the screen that tells you your setting. I ran the ATs at 100 (M setting), tried maxing at 127 (M) for the Neumanns but ending up backing off to 110.
Jeff
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just received one from zoom today to do a review article on. i'm psyched. just at first glance, recording through KM184 straight in i'm impressed.
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So how are the built-in mics on this thing?
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Just got my Transcend 4GB card. I'm gonna play with it a little this week and give some feedback.
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Zoom definitey recognizes the Transcend 4GB and shows the correct time remaining and file size. However, as Jeff said, do not format the card with the Zoom. Format it with your PC. The Zoom's format module renders the card inoperable, for its not programmed to format cards larger than 2GB. Until a firmware upgrade fixes this, use your PC for formatting.
On a 4GB SD card, at 24/48, the Zoom shows I can fit 3 hours and 57 minutes on it, from what I recall. That's perfect for the headliner and its opening act.
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Glad to hear the 4GB Transcend card works with the Zoom H4.
But how do the preamps sound ????
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Glad to hear the 4GB Transcend card works with the Zoom H4.
But how do the preamps sound ????
That's next. I'll try it out on my home stereo tonight. The Breakfast is playing in town Saturday night. I'll run it for that show too.
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The Sound Professionals web site now shows three accessories for the Zoom H4.
These are designed to work with mics that need 9v plug-in power, and
that have 3.5mm plugs on the cable from the mic, preamp or battery box.
All three of these accessories use a module that plugs in to the dual XLR ports
on the bottom of the H4.
The most expensive gadget has
-- a pair of Omnidirectional mics mounted on opposite sides of the plug-in module
-- a 24V phantom to 9V plug-in power converter, and
-- a 3.5mm TRS input jack for one or two external mics
SP-ZOOM-OMNI-MIC, $89
The next module leaves out the Omni mic capsules. It has
-- Phantom power to plug-in power converter, and
-- a 3.5mm TRS input jack for one or two external mics
SP-ZOOM-PHANTOM, $69
The cheapest has only the interface jack for mics with 3.5mm plug.
SP-ZOOM-INTERFACE, $39
In all three cases, the single 3.5mm TRS jack permits connection of two mics
via Y cable.
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If you have plug-in power mics, I recommend just getting an R09. The accessories for the Zoom will bring you up to the Edirol price any hoot. Edirol has 1/8 line-in, where the Zoom does not, of course you can get line-in using adapters to go TRS or XLR in. You have to think which is worth it to you. Both the R09 and the Zoom can record 24 bit. In addition, R09 is much smaller than the Zoom too. R09 is already a proven winner.
However, if you have phantom powered mics: LD, SD, or mini, the Zoom might be the right one for you. All-in-one box. The phantom power will broaden the dynamic range and improve SPL handling. A tiny box like this, providing phantom for a 24 bit recording? Can't beat it that with a stick. Lets hope some of our tests in the field prove this to be a winner too. :)
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Anyone measured the actual phantom voltage yet?
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Anyone measured the actual phantom voltage yet?
No, but it runs Neumann KM184s and an AT835ST, I'll be trying something else Friday.
Jeff
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this box has been amazing to me. built-in mic quality is as good as you'd expect, but moreso the preamp quality isn't terrible when ran with some KM184s. i don't have my earthworks with me but i'd assume that they'd draw too much current for this box.
i'm trying it out for the first time at a show tomorrow.
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I purchased one from Frank at Cascade for 299 a few days ago. should be here tomorrow if ne1 is still looking I'd give him a jingle
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Has anybody done a head-to-head comparison with the R09 yet? (Apologies if it's in this long thread and I missed it...)
Also am I correct in thinking that the Zoom has no mic-in socket?
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Reading these rave reviews I picked one up myeself for times I don't want to (or can't) drag along my Firebox, laptop, and backup battery but still want to use phantom-powered mics.
Battery life while supplying 24V phantom (my choice as my mics will take it) was more than adequate. Using 2000 mAh NiMH AAs I made it well past the three hour mark and got bored of recording my stereo.
Mostly echoing others' comments:
Worked with a 4GB Transcend card out of the box.
Headers get screwed up on >2G files.
No problem with multiple files that combine to exceed 2G.
It only takes a second or two to end one file and start a new one.
It did remember my settings (external input, phantom on, 24/44.1) even when the power was cycled and the batteries removed briefly.
Level meters are pretty decent.
My Mac only recognizes it as a USB 1.0 device, so transfers are slow (about 20 min / gigabyte) >:(
XLR inputs seem to hold onto a cable pretty firmly, but there is no locking mechanism. Not sure about the long term implications of that...
The headphone amp is a piece of crap. Really, it's awful. :really_sucks: Definite buzz even when not playing anything back.
Line out sounds decent though, and the recorded files sounded nice when played back through my main system, although it wasn't really good material to judge on.
I should be taping a show with this on Friday and will post a sample for everybody asking about the preamps etc.
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Reply to divamum re:
"Also am I correct in thinking that the Zoom has no mic-in socket? "
Au contraire: The Zoom H4 has two separate combo XLR/Phone mic inputs -- with phantom power.
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Reply to divamum re:
"Also am I correct in thinking that the Zoom has no mic-in socket? "
Au contraire: The Zoom H4 has two separate combo XLR/Phone mic inputs -- with phantom power.
I think he's asking about a 1/8 connection INto the Zoom. That it does not have. Like Doc Spider says above, you must go the XLR/TRS route. So you'll need adapters. Zoom has line-out and phones-out, though.
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Reply to divamum re:
"Also am I correct in thinking that the Zoom has no mic-in socket? "
Au contraire: The Zoom H4 has two separate combo XLR/Phone mic inputs -- with phantom power.
I think he's asking about a 1/8 connection INto the Zoom. That it does not have. Like Doc Spider says above, you must go the XLR/TRS route. So you'll need adapters. Zoom has line-out and phones-out, though.
Sorry for the confusion. To this old Tape-Head, a 1/8 connection is a negative! ;D
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I think he's asking about a 1/8 connection INto the Zoom. That it does not have. Like Doc Spider says above, you must go the XLR/TRS route. So you'll need adapters. Zoom has line-out and phones-out, though.
Indeed I was (and I'm a, er.... umm... "she" ;))
For those of us who stealth that's significant.... I see that SP has some adapters, but as somebody else said, by the time you've added those you're nearly up to the price of the Edirol anyway.
What a great time to be taping, though - so many choices!
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Now can I use my MK4 caps in the Zoom H4 :o
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One example of an adapter cable for the H4 is the Hosa CYX 402.
Price is $15 at B&H Photo Video
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&kw=HOYCSMM2XM6&is=REG&Q=&O=productlist&sku=160630
The cable has
a stereo miniplug (3.5mm TRS) on one end,
two male XLR connectors on the other end, and
6 feet of cable in between.
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used it tonight, very impressed.
i did a little test recording on the opening band with the internal mics, which i'll post here. to be honest, for stealth, this would probably be an acceptable all-in-one box to use if you don't have access to stealth mics.
battery life is good but i haven't figured out how to meter it.
USB 1 transfer BLOWS though. that's something that needs to be addressed. it took 21 minutes to import the show over, 1.1 gb.
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One example of an adapter cable for the H4 is the Hosa CYX 402.
Price is $15 at B&H Photo Video
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&kw=HOYCSMM2XM6&is=REG&Q=&O=productlist&sku=160630
The cable has
a stereo miniplug (3.5mm TRS) on one end,
two male XLR connectors on the other end, and
6 feet of cable in between.
While no one could argue this adapter is low cost and easily available, the straight 3.5 mm plug is a liability in easily stressing the minijacks on these decks, and is not so good a deal if the plug is given an accidental bump or if the cord is tugged hard enough to damage or weaken the jack. Cost/time of replacing the input jack on the deck needs be considered.
Might be wiser to spend a bit more for an adapter sporting a 'well designed' low profile molded right angle plug with very flexible cord that avoids stressing the deck's input jack.
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USB 1 transfer BLOWS though. that's something that needs to be addressed. it took 21 minutes to import the show over, 1.1 gb.
Are you using a Mac or is it as slow on a PC?
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USB 1 transfer BLOWS though. that's something that needs to be addressed. it took 21 minutes to import the show over, 1.1 gb.
Are you using a Mac or is it as slow on a PC?
i'm using a mac. so it may be just a mac issue, the guy at zoom who sent it to me who's been REALLY informative and helpful with my evaluation of it was sent an email this morning, i'll see if he knows anything about it.
but you know what, i laugh... we're sitting here complaining about it taking 20 minutes to move a show over, when the days of DAT transfer in realtime wasn't all that far back. :P
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I'm just back from taping four flavors of a piano quartet. One ("real live sound" version) was Josephson C617s (Gefell 1" caps) to 722, two of the others were machines using internal mics: the Zoom H4 and the Sony D1. Should have everything transferred by Monday, I'll post impressions of the Sony and Zoom internal mics and maybe cut a CD of one comparison track.
Does anyone else notice that the H4 smells not like a new car but vaguely like Lapsong Soochong tea?
Jeff (tapin' too hard)
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Does anyone else notice that the H4 smells not like a new car but vaguely like Lapsong Soochong tea?
Definitely noticed some kind of smell unpacking mine.
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first tape i made with the H4:
http://www.archive.org/details/OAR102606
sbd + shure vp88 mix
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first tape i made with the H4:
http://www.archive.org/details/OAR102606
sbd + shure vp88 mix
Is this "line-in" joe?
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first tape i made with the H4:
http://www.archive.org/details/OAR102606
sbd + shure vp88 mix
Is this "line-in" joe?
yeah, actually went with XLR in.
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A couple samples using the built-in preamp here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=74437.msg994833#msg994833
Seems like a mixed bag so far, and it would be interesting to get some recordings of really quiet source material to see how they do in a high gain situation.
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I gave the Zoom its maiden voyage last night. The Breakfast - with Ron's heavy bass. Recorded at a small club. Ran : AKG 483 > Zoom H4, Low Gain, 16/44.1, no pad on the mics. Results: Brickwalling. :-\
The H4 couldn't handle the unattenuated heavy bass from the 480s, which have a sensitivity of 20 mv. So Test #1 failed.
Test #2 will be Monday night when I run the AT853Rx > Zoom H4 for Ratdog. Kenny's heavy bass should give me another solid test. The AT853RX has a sensitivity of 7 mv and is 30 > 20K. I'm also gonna try out the "Auto-Gain" function. It works like a pad,from what I read. If this next test fails, I can only think of in-line attenuators as the final solution for heavy bass shows. If this test succeeds, then I'll try out the 480s with the -10 pad employed on the module.
I did run a backup rig: AT853RX (H) > Tascam HD-P2 for The Breakfast show. The biggest difference so far, is the bass. I'll be running 2 rigs again at Ratdog.
The good:
1) Easy setup and go. Records with no drop outs.
2) "Hold" mechanism works.
3) Phantom power easily handled the 480s.
4) I haven't done a complete analysis of battery time, so I swapped batteries in between sets. My original setting were kept by the Zoom, so I didn't have to re-create the settings. I did jot down what I was set at, just in case. But not needed.
5) ADC is pretty clean for a recorder this size.
The bad:
1) It takes the Zoom about 20-25 seconds to power up. A little too long if you're caught in a pinch. Need to factor that in, if you are powered down in between sets and taking an extended break away from the gear.
2) When you format the card, the Zoom goes back to factory settings: on-board mic, 16/44.1 wav.
The ugly:
1) Brickwalling with high sensitive mics and heavy bass. Bass sounded distorted when compared to the Tascam. The Zoom does have a "Auto Gain" function that monitors the incoming sound and adjusts the gain so there is no distortion. I'm gonna try that out too. It the closest thing it has for any kind of pad. Just like the Marantz 660, you'll need to deploy a pad.
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I'm currently running the FFT Filter > Kill Mic Rumble on Adobe Audition 1.5. It seems to do the job. I'll post some mp3 results later. I think I can salvage the AKG 483 recording. :)
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first tape i made with the H4:
http://www.archive.org/details/OAR102606
sbd + shure vp88 mix
Is this "line-in" joe?
yeah, actually went with XLR in.
does the zoom H4 do on the fly matrixes?
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Much better results last night at Ratdog. Ran 24 bit, flawlessly. I was FOB, about 25 rows back, DFC at the Smith Opera House in Geneva, NY. Test #2 passed with AT853RX. I'm sure it would've passed with the AKGs too, since Kenny's bass was not as over-the-top as Ron's bass (The Breakfast). Opinion: H4 is definitely thin and bright compared to the Tascam HDP2. Samples will go up tomorrow via bit torrent.
Test #3: I'd like to do this Saturday, is run an Aerco or a PSP-2 in front of the Zoom at Trey Anastasio in Ithaca, NY. I have each Pre available in the area to borrow, but I have to see if they aren't being used by the owners. One thing that I like of the Zoom over the Edirols: XLR line-in vs 1/8 line-in. Much more secure connection and I bet lower noise. Lets see if I can get a loaner.
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One thing that I like of the Zoom over the Edirols: XLR line-in vs 1/8 line-in. Much more secure connection and I bet lower noise. Lets see if I can get a loaner.
I also like the fact that I can do aidio pass through, via the H4's "Line Out" 1/8 port. So if I want I can take my audio as it's being recorded and send the same signal to my camera via wireless transmitter. The Microtrack could do this via the RCA's but it's not posssible with the R-09. And to boot it seems that it your line out feed is post pre amp, so it's pretty darn quiet.
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I also like the fact that I can do aidio pass through, via the H4's "Line Out" 1/8 port.
Is it true analog passthrough (input > output), or is it input > ADC > DAC > output?
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I also like the fact that I can do aidio pass through, via the H4's "Line Out" 1/8 port.
Is it true analog passthrough (input > output), or is it input > ADC > DAC > output?
I don't know the answer to that one, maybe someone else could elaborate. All I know and care about it, is that it sounds pretty good to me.
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Here's a comp I did between the Tascam HD-P2 vs Zoom H4. Give you an idea on the Preamp on this puppy. This was a good test.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=74928.msg1000653#msg1000653
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Made a recent recording of Dan Bern, quasi-acoustic. It's quieter source material than the other Zoom H4 shows I've seen posted, so it might give some perspective on the preamp's performance in medium-volume situations. Input sensitivity on M, input levels at 100.
http://www.archive.org/details/dbern2006-11-09.U873Rc.flac16f
Dan Bern 11/9/06 The Attic - Santa Cruz, CA
AUD: Audio Technica U873Rs (with AT853 cardioid capsules, ORTF, clamped to table 8' from stage, DFC) > Zoom H4 (24/44.1)
wav (24/44.1) peak normalized in Sound Studio 2.2.4, dithered (triangle) to 16 bit in Audacity 1.2.4, and tracked in Sound Studio 2.2.4, SBE fix and conversion to FLAC via xACT 1.4b28
Notes:
The Attic is indeed in the Attic of a building, with a dance club below. A bit of the house music starts leaking through from midway through Joe Christ on.
Faint 60 hz buzz is from the PA, not the H4.
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I just picked up an H4 last night. I've been doing "field recording" with the simple-to-use R-09 and I'm having a few user interface issues with the H4.
I'd like to ask what others think of the lack of tactile feedback on the "record" button. No real motion when the button is pressed on my H4 - almost like it was a touchpad and not a real button. The H4 goes into record-pause and record OK, but the physical UI doesn't inspire confidence. Also, the slider buttons on the side seem kinda stiff to move - but maybe that's a good thing to avoid accidental moves.
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There's a new firmware update out, although it's not really necessary unless you record to MP3 or like to record sine waves onto your computer.
http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/news/news150/index.php
Still, it's nice to see the active support. Aside from supporting >2 GB files I'm not sure what else I'd ask for in a firmware update.
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Hey all - first time poster, long time lurker.
Just wonderin' how everyone likes their H4's, haven't seen anything for at least a month.
So, I am thinking about getting one and some mics to go with it, and I was looking for some suggestions. My situation would be live shows (Panic mostly) where I would want a very flexible, forgiving mic that would let me learn, but, if I got a good pull, could have quality-enough to share. Looking to spend about $5-800 for the mic. I know little about mics (except from the lineage in shows) so type slow, I might not get it right away :laugh:. Thanks for the info, advice, and awesome site.
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Well, I'm pretty happy with my H4 for the price. The mic pre may not compare to a kilobuck V3 but I think it does an ok job...you can judge for yourself based on many of the shows linked in my signature. Note though that not all of my recordings were made with the H4.
As for mics...well maybe I'm just fluffing my own gear again but I think Audio Technica U873Rs merit consideration. I'm not aware of any other tapers using them, but they are very similar to the very popular AT853s used by stealthers. Except they are full sized mics with built in shock mounts, so mounting them to a stand is pretty easy and doesn't require bulky, expensive external shock mounts. They also have interchangeable capsules, which you won't find in many other mics in their price range. Cost is ~180 each, so your budget would leave plenty of room for a pair of U873Rs with the stock hypers (which probably would come in handy taping Panic from back in the section) and also a pair of cardioids or subcardioids for up close, and a stand and T-bar. You can also hear several U873R-sourced shows on the link in my signature.
Of course, there are other good options in your price range. I really like mics that offer interchangeable caps for flexibility, so I'd look into the Pelusos and the Oktavas as well.
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This is what i was hoping, to be able to afford 2 good mics. Go ahead and fluff your own rig, I'm lookin for ideas. I have a show entirely taped with the H4, and it sounds okay, just missing a little low end - although it was Calexico, not real low-end heavy. Thanks for the info, and keep it comin!
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Just ran my 1st show with the H4, and I'm also pleased (did do some testing in the home studio prior). This was straight MS > H4 (no pre; post mix in AA2)
http://righteousdog.com/freemusik/krb20070217_show_your_love.mp3
...and bonus paws for a grrl with an acoustic
more pics and info HERE (http://www.righteousdog.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?num=1170201502/0#2) (scroll to top for a killer acoustic set)
(http://righteousdog.com/righteousphotos/20070217_Katie_Reider_Red_Line_Tap_Chicago/slides/2007_0217_KRB_Chicago_0040.JPG)
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The other day I had the chance to run the Zoom H4 with the internal mics and my Studio Projects LSD2 > Presonus Firebox > MacBook setup from the exact same spot for a band called Ockham's Razor. Here's one track from both sources:
http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/Zoom.mp3
http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/LSD2.mp3
You definitely get what you pay for mic-wise, but I'm still pretty happy with the Zoom as a budget recorder/pre/phantom unit.
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Well its been a good long time since anyone has posted about the h4 and a good long time since its been out, so I thought I would check to see how much they still like their recording device.
I'm strongly leaning towards this device over the microtrack II and over the Edirol R-09. The Sony D50 thing looks nice but I think if I get a less expensive recorder and a couple good mics, I would be able to record right now without waiting to save money to buy mics.
So does everyone still like the Zoom h4? What I like the most about it are the XLR inputs. It is sad to see it does not have 1/8" connections but I could live with that. How heavy is the zoom h4? It looks pretty plasticly and flimsy.
What about the Fostex FR2LE? What's LE, limited edition? This just looks like a tape player.
So what do you think about the h4 & maybe a couple ATU873R to record fests of sort?
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Rastasean-If you want a recorder with phantom power, I'd recommend the Fostex FR2-LE over the H-4. I love mine and everyone on taperssection who has one seems to like theirs (especially if modded by Busman, but it's supposed to sound good stock). Note that the Fostex's internal mics are worthless, but with externals, it is a far superior recorder to the Zoom.
If you plan to tape with mini-mics and stealth is important, get an R-09. I'd be leary of the Microtrack II, unless you want to use it as a bit bucket.
If you really want a Zoom H-4, I have one gathering dust. Maybe I could make you a deal if you also want an external battery and Sound Pros' adapters that allow you to easily use mini-mics with it. It worked fine the few times I took it in the field, but it is not very convenient to use (unless you want it for it's internal mics) and has a number of reported problems when used for taping live concerts.
However if you're serious about taping, I don't think you'd use a Zoom for very long before you'd want to step up to something better.
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What he said. The Zoom was attractive at a point in time when the only real competitor (small all in one with XLRs and phantom power) was the Marantz PMD660, which was much more expensive and pretty much worthless for live taping until modded for even more $$$. Now that the FR2LE is on the scene and has come down a lot in price since its introduction, the Zoom's limitations are more significant. It can make decent recordings, but the FR2LE is probably worth the extra expense.
The U873Rs are nice mics especially with the interchangeable caps. If you don't mind made-in-China, also look at Studio Projects C4s, Avantone mics, and the new Busman mics (check out the retail space forum).
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Rastasean-If you want a recorder with phantom power, I'd recommend the Fostex FR2-LE over the H-4. I love mine and everyone on taperssection who has one seems to like theirs (especially if modded by Busman, but it's supposed to sound good stock).
Do you know what does Busman modify and what's the cost? What about warranty?
Note that the Fostex's internal mics are worthless, but with externals, it is a far superior recorder than the Zoom.
What about when using any of them with something like an SD Mixpre?
It worked fine the few times I took it in the field, but it is not very convenient to use (unless you want it for it's internal mics) and has a number of reported problems when used for taping live concerts.
What reported problems were that?
However if you're serious about taping, I don't think you'd use a Zoom for very long before you'd want to step up to something better.
Well, I am serious about taping, because I want a small reliable card machine to work as the main audio recorder in portable video situations, double-system style.
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Is there a time-code version for the Fostex FR-2 LE?
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Yep, it's called the Fostex FR-2 with timecode, about $1800!
A more reasonable two channel recorder with timecode input is the Tascam HD-P2, ~$850. It's used a lot by TV and film production folks.
Flintstone
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Yep, it's called the Fostex FR-2 with timecode, about $1800!
A more reasonable two channel recorder with timecode input is the Tascam HD-P2, ~$850. It's used a lot by TV and film production folks.
Yes, the HD-P2 is an excellent and very affordable option. Pity it's a bit large for my application.
My idea is to secure this recorder on the video camera head base, or an extension behind it, if you picture what I mean. That's why I was thinking of a Zoom or a Fostex small size recorder.
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Yep, it's called the Fostex FR-2 with timecode, about $1800!
A more reasonable two channel recorder with timecode input is the Tascam HD-P2, ~$850. It's used a lot by TV and film production folks.
Yes, the HD-P2 is an excellent and very affordable option. Pity it's a bit large for my application.
My idea is to secure this recorder on the video camera head base, or an extension behind it, if you picture what I mean. That's why I was thinking of a Zoom or a Fostex small size recorder.
PMD-620 is also very small size deck, and is better built than most, but like most these compact flash recorders, has maybe too noisy preamp only good for recording louder amplified music venues unless attaching external preamplifier.
(http://www.sonicstudios.com/620-25log.gif)
Below is noise comparison of PMD-620 internal mic preamp vs. my (smaller than deck) PA-3SX external preamp supplying same mic gain.
(http://www.sonicstudios.com/micvs3sx(log).gif)
As is very clear in the graph, with external preamplifier, PMD-620 has excellent low noise recording ability.
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PMD-620 is also very small size deck, and is better built than most, but like most these compact flash recorders, has maybe too noisy preamp only good for recording louder amplified music venues unless attaching external preamplifier.
It also has no balanced inputs, no 48v phantom and no 96KHz capability.
It's quite likely that whatever the unit I buy, in due time, probably short time, I will get a SD Mixpre. That mixer would provide more flexibility, input transformers and a very effective limiter, besides good headphone monitoring.
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Well hell guys. I went to bed thinking the Zoom H4 was still pretty decent and everyone was liking it and I get online this morning and people have them but don't really use them.
The Fostex is nice except no internal mics, actually that's probably a good thing since I don't really need internal mics. OH, haha, just read the specs and it does have a built in mic but its not specializing it in.
What kinds of accessories are there for the fr-2LE? I did wish it had 1/8" inputs but I could live with an adapter.
How does this device feel? The Zoom looks very cheap and like it would break but this FRLE isn't much better looking. How strong is it really?
Ideally if I am going to be recording a music fest, I think I would want the path something like this: mic-----mic (meaning two separate mics): mixing board: recorder.
And other times I would not use the board but I still think it would be a good option just for extra mic pres.
What do you say?
Now what don't you guys like about the FR2-LE?
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Well hell guys. I went to bed thinking the Zoom H4 was still pretty decent and everyone was liking it and I get online this morning and people have them but don't really use them.
The Fostex is nice except no internal mics, actually that's probably a good thing since I don't really need internal mics. OH, haha, just read the specs and it does have a built in mic but its not specializing it in.
What kinds of accessories are there for the fr-2LE? I did wish it had 1/8" inputs but I could live with an adapter.
Are you kidding? One of the best things in the Zoom and the Fostex is that they use XLRs for mic inputs. The next best is the the Microtrack, which has 1/4" for the balanced mic/line inputs. The worst of the lot is the Edirol, which only has 1/8" jacks.
The 1/8" connector is one of the worst there is. They do need adaptors, but what you should do is leave them plugged all the time. And connect your stuff using XLR or 1/4" connectors.
If you have mics using 1/8" plugs, replace them for XLRs.
Ideally if I am going to be recording a music fest, I think I would want the path something like this: mic-----mic (meaning two separate mics): mixing board: recorder.
And other times I would not use the board but I still think it would be a good option just for extra mic pres.
What do you say?
Seems alright. It will depend on the quality of the mics and the quality of the preamp, as you will not really mix anything, but record it in separate channels.
Now what don't you guys like about the FR2-LE?
It's probably the best in the lot. My H4 got caught in Brazilian customs, and I have been waiting for months for it to be released. Now I am considering buying the Fostex or the Tascam. I had hopes on the MT II, but feedback from this forum is being terrible telling about it.
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In reference to the FR-2LE
It's probably the best in the lot. My H4 got caught in Brazilian customs, and I have been waiting for months for it to be released. Now I am considering buying the Fostex or the Tascam. I had hopes on the MT II, but feedback from this forum is being terrible telling about it.
It is good to hear this.
I don't really like the MTII just because it uses rechargeable batteries and its too much money without XLR inputs. The reviews I've heard haven't been all that great either.
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It is good to hear this.
I don't really like the MTII just because it uses rechargeable batteries and its too much money without XLR inputs. The reviews I've heard haven't been all that great either.
The fact that it uses rechargeables is not really a problem: what is is that you don't have access to them.
It also has 1/4" inputs, which is not all that bad, even if they can't be locked. Mic connectors should by definition be locking or threadable types. That's why XLR became the only pro option around.
The comments by Guysonic on his unit, and others saying similar things, are quite surprising on what should be a revised and improved version of the first MT.
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Recently picked up the H4 whilst I await arrival of the R-44 and I have to say I am pleased. The unit records very well taking a signal from the FP-33 with multiple channels. The unit does seem very 'toy' in it's look and handling. Feels like I would break it if I pressed a button too hard.. but it does have XLR inputs which is a tremendous plus on this unit. The price, in comparison to other units, also played a factor - but then again, I am waiting for the R-44 in which the H4 will become a neat, little backup unit.
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I'm thinking of getting one of these probably during the summer, and I'm curious to know if these get picked up by metal detectors? And also, on a scale of 1-10, how would the quality sound if I taped a show only using the built-in mics?
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Recently picked up the H4 whilst I await arrival of the R-44 and I have to say I am pleased. The unit records very well taking a signal from the FP-33 with multiple channels.
That's very good. I seem to have lost my H4 in a Customs grab, so I may have to make up my mind again on what to buy now. And I will probably feed this unit with an external mixer, like the FP33s I already have or an SD Mixpre.
The unit does seem very 'toy' in its look and handling. Feels like I would break it if I pressed a button too hard.. but it does have XLR inputs which is a tremendous plus on this unit. The price, in comparison to other units, also played a factor
Having XLR and full phantom IS the major point in the H4. Only the Fostex, costing a bit more, seems to improve on it... but it seems quite larger too.
For that price, other recorders, like the Tascam or the Edirol R-4pro, step in as interesting options.
I am waiting for the R-44 in which the H4 will become a neat, little backup unit.
The R44 looks very interesting and more reliable than the R4, as it may stand rough portable handling better, not having an internal HDD as the latter has.
Now the question are the R-44 mic preamplifiers, as it would be a pity having 4 mic channels and not being able to use them because quality is poor.
Pity you can't put it in your pocket, as you can with the H4! ;D