Topic: Tascam/Teac VR-10 Digital Recorder

[UnknownVT]

I like this recording -
but would welcome some constructive critiques please:

VR-10 internal mics
24bit 48k original
trimmed in Audacity
foobar200 converted to vbr MP3
ReplayGain (89db default) added with MP3Gain -

Download 6.28MB

[F.O.Bean]

Sounds good. Decent soundstage and good overall balance!

[UnknownVT]

Sounds good. Decent soundstage and good overall balance!

Thank you so much for your comments, very much appreciated
 - more details in a bit,  thanks.

In the meantime - a couple more clips, literally from last night -


Download 6.51MB

Download 5.96MB

Comments welcome please -
especially any sonic/SQ  differences

[F.O.Bean]

They sound pretty similar to me. The 2nd track sounds like it has better vocals

[UnknownVT]

They sound pretty similar to me. The 2nd track sounds like it has better vocals

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Your comments are so useful/helpful to me -
I am extremely grateful for your quick response.

Details were in the MP3 tag -
both were:

VR-10 internal mics (no surprise)
24bit 48k original
split out in Audacity
foobar2000 converted to vbr MP3
ReplayGain (89db default) added with MP3Gain

They were recorded in the same continuous file only about 5 minutes apart (one other song in between) .

The second has a different person singing -
actually IMHO the singer - Larry Keel - has a great voice.


I think it may well have been my listening -
at first I thought the second had more and boomy/muddy bass compared to the first -
but this shouldn't have been - due to the exact same recording conditions -
my only mitigating excuse is that the first track started without the bass and on acoustic banjo (with pick up and amp) so sounded clearer/cleaner, before the bass came in - whereas the second track had more or less the full band from the start - being bigger sound may have fooled my ears into thinking the track as bassier. 

I have nothing against good bass, and it was an exceedingly good bassist - Oteil Burbridge (Allman Brothers) - that's why there was the comment at the end of the first track "we never could afford a band like this"!

Back to that other earlier track 01 tune1.mp3 -

Sounds good. Decent soundstage and good overall balance!

thank you also for the kind comment -
this was one of those recordings that turned out much better than it had any possible right to.
the VR-10 was set on its kick stand on a divider - about bar height,  to the right of stage -
more or less from this viewpoint:


I was really surprised by how good this sounded -
again I know I can be influenced by the song/performance -
and really needed more experienced ears and clearer/more objective head to give a more impartial judgement.
(although I also took into account that you probably are being kind too  )

Thank you.

[F.O.Bean]

Man upon listening, I'm actually really impressed with your most recent samples. They have good air to each instrument, good drums in the mix, overall good balance, and a soundstage I def didn't expect to hear from this little recorder. Might have to pick one up myself it's not schoeps good, but def sounds almost as good as the ca14s, at least IMO

[UnknownVT]

Man upon listening, I'm actually really impressed with your most recent samples. They have good air to each instrument, good drums in the mix, overall good balance, and a soundstage I def didn't expect to hear from this little recorder. Might have to pick one up myself it's not schoeps good, but def sounds almost as good as the ca14s, at least IMO

WoW! thank you so much for your genereous comments -
this is way beyond my expectations.

I kind of knew the Teac VR-10 was good - simply from that brilliant recording by cd2go -
but all mine were really only casual and unattended recordings -
and a few have actually been from far less than ideal conditions/positions.

I really liked the jazz orchestra concert in the church (First Congregational Church, Atlanta)
- I don't know if you'd include that:
recorded from approx this photo's position - vr-10 set on balcony - left of center and soundboard.

anyway I put up the full length of that excerpted piece -
which I think shows even better the dynamic range, and even air ...

Download 16.83MB

The most recent recordings - from Sunday Dec/16 were from a larger venue - the Variety Playhouse in Atlanta - to my ears the room tends to be a bit boomy - and the VR-10 was set way back right of the lighting console, which was to the right of the soundboard - but there were 2 tapers with tall mic stands set up about half way along the hall (ie: the VR-10 was about twice that distance away - with a back wall at about 6ft.)  this photo was the actual act on stage (minus the sax player) and taken more or less from the VR-10's position as was the previous shot where one can just about make out those mic stands (in front of the 4th person in from the left)


Thanks again - very much appreciated.

[F.O.Bean]

The jazzy tape sounds too distant, but that's likely for hat kind of music in that type of venue. Don't get me wrong, I'm not selling my schoeps anytime soon but for the $$, that's hard to beat! I would like to hear a comparison vs. a pair of ca14s!!!

[UnknownVT]

The jazzy tape sounds too distant, but that's likely for hat kind of music in that type of venue. Don't get me wrong, I'm not selling my schoeps anytime soon but for the $$, that's hard to beat! I would like to hear a comparison vs. a pair of ca14s!!!

Many thanks for your valuable comments.

I can hear what you are saying -
but I think that is why I liked the recording -
it seems to sound like the space/church and where it was recorded  -
when I first listened to it, I thought it was pretty faithful.

The piano was a bit low, and perhaps distant - but unfortunately that's how it was.

Thank you, it is always helpful to hear other and more experienced viewpoints.

[cd2go]

Update time. I made another recording (ironically also GPN) with the Teac VR-10 internals that I think builds on the case study here of how impressive the mics can be with this machine. So many "internal mic" threads get serious haters (no stereo separation, spend a little more to get CA-14s, etc.) so it's nice to see a positive discussion for once.

For this one, I was 25' from the flying left stack and about 20' from 4 double 15" or 18" bass cabinets, so this is the hardest I have pushed the mics in terms of dBs--with the recording level at 0, I peaked at -0.7dB on the deck! So it is definitely possible to go over with this, but it would have to be a very loud situation, but it is a consideration. I should test it out and see if it clips "gracefully" or not. I also forgot to mention something important, I use the "bass boost" setting when recording--I feel without it, the sound can be too thin.

Below are links to 3 sources from the show, the first 2 are mine and the last is JT/NY's for comparison. Unfortunately they are all from different locations, but I feel the Teac's sound speaks for itself, let me know what you think:

http://archive.org/details/gpn2013-02-06.dpa4022.mixpre.dr40.cd2go.flac24

http://archive.org/details/gpn2013-02-06.teacvr10.cd2go.flac24

http://archive.org/details/GPN2013-02-06.AlbanyNY

As a side note, I did a battery run-time test with my home stereo. Off of regular Energizers I got 2 hours 20 minutes on 24/48 and with Energizer Ultimate Lithiums just over 7 hours. I see that these units are now discontinued (they are still selling the cardioid version DR-08). Amazon still has the black model for $85 and the white for $59 right now and I'm seriously considering grabbing one for when mine craps out. I would also love to hear the DR-05 mics side by side, as they are larger capsules and designed for louder input. Like I said I don't  tape much anymore but I always have this as a backup in case I do want to, or even if I can't run my full rig for some reason. The ease of sticking this in a shirt pocket or hat and not fussing with any wires sometimes can be very tempting; If my DPA source failed or if I was feeling lazy and didn't even want to bring my rig, I would have no problems coming home with the Teac source, YMMV.

-james

[F.O.Bean]

I like the Naks the most to be 100% honest. The Teacs are a close 2nd tho

[UnknownVT]

Update time. I made another recording (ironically also GPN) with the Teac VR-10 internals that I think builds on the case study here of how impressive the mics can be with this machine. So many "internal mic" threads get serious haters (no stereo separation, spend a little more to get CA-14s, etc.) so it's nice to see a positive discussion for once.

Thank you James for the follow up, and for providing us with another recording.

I did literal back to back comparisons with your stunning recording from Irving Plaza 03/09/2011 - http://www.archive.org/details/gpn2011-03-09.teacvr10.cd2go.flac24
I used two common tracks: "Ah Mary" and "Paris (Ooh La La)" -

to my ears the earlier Irving Plaza recording sounded clearer, brighter and with more definition - without seeming to give up any in the bass.
The more recent Kitty Carlisle Hart Theatre VR-10 recording sounds in comparison to be more recessed and slightly muffled - again this is with back to back comparison -

(I also compared back to back the two other recording using Ah Mary only
the other two were not that much better -
to my ears I think the Nak recording may better on the vocals  than the other two recordings of the same date -
but not as good as the VR-10 Irving Plaza, and overall it is still recessed compared to the VR-10 Irving Plaza.
Strange that your other recording seems to be biased toward the left channel.)

Please don't get me wrong - I think I'd be happy with such a good recording -
but if I made the stunning Irving Plaza recording I'd be ecstatic
and probably would really be crowing about it.

[flintstone]

The VR10 was replaced in Tascam's lineup in 2010 by the DR-08. 

The DR-08 adds cardioid mics in movable mounts, and the ability to record at 24/96.  Being able to point the mics can be useful.  For example, you can strap the recorder to a vertical pole and aim the mics forward.

Anyone here have experience taping with the DR-08?  I didn't find much via the search function.

[UnknownVT]

I see that these units are now discontinued (they are still selling the cardioid version DR-08). Amazon still has the black model for $85 and the white for $59 right now and I'm seriously considering grabbing one for when mine craps out. I would also love to hear the DR-05 mics side by side, as they are larger capsules and designed for louder input.

If it's of any interest at the Amazon listing they have used versions of both the black and white VR-10, in "very good" and "like new" conditions for around $32 shipped - that's a real bargain price for such a good and compact recorder

[dallman]

The VR10 was replaced in Tascam's lineup in 2010 by the DR-08. 

The DR-08 adds cardioid mics in movable mounts, and the ability to record at 24/96.  Being able to point the mics can be useful.  For example, you can strap the recorder to a vertical pole and aim the mics forward.

Anyone here have experience taping with the DR-08?  I didn't find much via the search function.

I have a DR-08 and really like it but I do not use it that much. Because it is so small, I keep it in my work briefcase so it is around for emergencies. This is the only show I ever posted made CAFS>Tascam DR-08. I couldnt be more pleased with how it turned out. http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=548206