Topic: AT853 > Battery Box > AD20 > JB3?

[scoper]

Just picked up the AD-20 that willndmb was selling - now to make sure I'm looking at the right setup:

AT853 (cardioids from SoundPros) into SoundPro Battery Box (with level and bass rolloff)to provide power to the mics,  to mini>XLR converter cable, to AD-20, then TOSLINK out to optical mini into the JB3.

I'm new to the outboard A/D world, so some newbie questions:

I'm using this as a stealth rig exclusively - is there a way to cut down on the hardware? I had hoped for the AD20 with mini input but it's too far out of reach. That's a lot of different connectors to worry about.

Also, since the BB has level controls, how should I set the levels on the BB vs the AD-20. I've heard that the 853's are "hot", but don't know what that will mean in practical situations. I record both rock shows and acoustic stuff, and I've only used the jb3 for one show (Springsteen) so far - levels looked good on the jb3 meters but had to be boosted a lot in post production to get a decent sounding CD.

So I've gone from an experienced MiniDisc user to much better sounding equipment with which I have limited experience. This board has been a wealth of knowledge, so where better to ask?

All comments and suggestions welcome!!

Scott

[willndmb]

thank you for the purchase, shipping tomorrow
but here is what i have done when stealthing this rig

to get the gear in i wrap the mics around my waist under my belt
the bb and jb3/md i put inside a bag--like a felt crown royal bag and crotch it, use the bags straps to hang it from your belt and down in front of you
the ad-20 i usally had someone else bring in just because its bigger and having that on me with everything else could be seen easier
once inside i goto the bathroom and set up
i normally wear cargo pants and have the the recorder in there
i hang the ad-20 on my belt (it has a belt clip)
the bb i have in my cargo pocket or top pocket
the mics are run up my back and extra cable is wrapped over my shoulder
i then use a button down shirt to cover the ad-20 and cables
i just have to pull out the recorder for a few secs to hit record and drop it right back into my pocket
works great, sound like it could be hard but its not

if you are going to stealth a lot and want ot be even slicker, cut a hole in the top pocket and the top inside of the cargo pocket, that way the cables can run inside your pants and the button down cover up shirt might not even be needed

as for the levels
i have done 2 things
had my bb levels all the way up and used the ad-20--i like this better because if the levels are hot you can still hopfully fix it by lowering the bb, however if they are good you are good
or have the bb all the way down and use the ad-20--this i don't like as much because if the single is to hot you are screwed, i actually did this a few times by mistake--otherwsie i recommend the top version

and no matter what the ad-20 says or deneckes site says--you can only get about 5hrs on one battery
i have never got close to 9hrs like it claims

[Roving Sign]

Im looking toward a stealth upgrade...I dont have any of this stuff - but these are some of the things I think of when I read about this gear...

I was always under the impression that those battery box things were for connecting to a line level input...not mic. Can't you get good results going AT853 > Battery Box  > JB3 Line In? The AD in the JB3 isnt that bad, or is it hard to get levels in a comfortable zone...?

If you want to use the AD-20 you wouldn't you want to simply power the mics up, without any preamplifcation(not sure of your battery box...but maybe the 0db setting?)...and go right into the AD-20. Use the JB3 meters to monitor level changes on the AD-20...if the BB adds gain - isnt that like 2 preamps...?

[willndmb]

Im looking toward a stealth upgrade...I dont have any of this stuff - but these are some of the things I think of when I read about this gear...

I was always under the impression that those battery box things were for connecting to a line level input...not mic. Can't you get good results going AT853 > Battery Box  > JB3 Line In? The AD in the JB3 isnt that bad, or is it hard to get levels in a comfortable zone...?

If you want to use the AD-20 you wouldn't you want to simply power the mics up, without any preamplifcation(not sure of your battery box...but maybe the 0db setting?)...and go right into the AD-20. Use the JB3 meters to monitor level changes on the AD-20...if the BB adds gain - isnt that like 2 preamps...?

you could go at853 >bb >jb3
i did that for while befor i had the ad-20, but after getting the ad20 i heard a niticable difference, and i am not one to hear big differences like many can

the bb doesn't have levels you can read without another device, so i am not sure you could tell it it was on zero or where it was exactly

[Roving Sign]

Is the BBox this one

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-PREAMP

or this one

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-PREAMP-8

?

[willndmb]

Is the BBox this one

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-PREAMP

or this one

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-PREAMP-8

?

neither on is like mine
this is like mine http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-SPSB-1 and i think what scott has too
add on bass roll and level adjust

[scoper]

Neither of the above - it's an older one made of brushed aluminum, with the level controls INSIDE the box - you have to take the top off to access the level control sliders and the rolloff switches. I got this along with my mics in 1999. They changed from aluminum to plastic some time afterwards.

I tried going AT853 > bb > jb3, but the gain wasn't enough, and my gear-tech friends kept raving about the AD-20, so I took the plunge, even though it meant adding 3 extra links to the rig.

[scoper]

An update on the situation -

I spoke to Chris at Sound Professionals, and he suggested modifying the battery box to output dual XLR's in addition to the usual miniplug. This way, I can use the battery box either with or without the AD-20, and the price for the mod would be essentially the price for the converter cable.

I also always have the option down the road of having someone (SoundPros will do it) modify the AD-20 with the miniplug and power option. That's probably my longer-term solution, as it's the most expensive and I've spent way too much on this project already.

He further explained that feeding the AD-20 from the battery box allows me to use the bb as an attenuator, should the levels overdrive the mic input on the AD-20. Normally, I'd run the bb levels wide open, but this adds some flexibility.

For those of us on the low-rent end of the spectrum, it seems like a decent compromise.

[willndmb]

if i understand what he is saying, someone posted a link it a new one with this mod--it was like 550
depending on how much the mod is now and if you can sell the bb box you have it might be good

[audBall]

An update on the situation -

I spoke to Chris at Sound Professionals, and he suggested modifying the battery box to output dual XLR's in addition to the usual miniplug. This way, I can use the battery box either with or without the AD-20, and the price for the mod would be essentially the price for the converter cable.

I also always have the option down the road of having someone (SoundPros will do it) modify the AD-20 with the miniplug and power option. That's probably my longer-term solution, as it's the most expensive and I've spent way too much on this project already.

He further explained that feeding the AD-20 from the battery box allows me to use the bb as an attenuator, should the levels overdrive the mic input on the AD-20. Normally, I'd run the bb levels wide open, but this adds some flexibility.

For those of us on the low-rent end of the spectrum, it seems like a decent compromise.

Scoper, let us know how this pans out.  I'm curious.

[Unitmonster]

my suggestion... before spending money on mods to a bb, think about dropping 100 bucks on a PS-2 and de-modding your 853s so that they have the phantom xlr's.   Not really a big difference in size, but much better performance from what I've heard.  There are instructions on how to do the mic mod here (I think LeeGeddy posted them).

[audBall]

my suggestion... before spending money on mods to a bb, think about dropping 100 bucks on a PS-2 and de-modding your 853s so that they have the phantom xlr's.   Not really a big difference in size, but much better performance from what I've heard.  There are instructions on how to do the mic mod here (I think LeeGeddy posted them).

Unit,

I run mine both on phantom and thru the bb, depending on my situation and how much gear I feel like carrying that night.  I have not ran mine ...PS2>AD20 yet but plan to do so soon.  Have you had any instances where yours were running super hot this way?  Or does it work fine?

[scoper]

my suggestion... before spending money on mods to a bb, think about dropping 100 bucks on a PS-2 and de-modding your 853s so that they have the phantom xlr's.   Not really a big difference in size, but much better performance from what I've heard.  There are instructions on how to do the mic mod here (I think LeeGeddy posted them).

As I said, the bb mod is very inexpensive (the cost of the mini to XLR cable plus a couple bucks labor), and I've overspent on this already. Later on, I can always have the lopitoffame of the miniplug to xlr's to use with a PS-2 (another expense, and another piece of gear added to what should be a stealth rig), or use the phantom power XLR's from Samson or wherever. I ALWAYS have the option to spend more money later on - I'm looking for a cheap, short-term solution. I just got the jb3 two months ago (one expense), then wasted money with a Church Audio preamp (expense two), then the AD-20 (strike three) and the bb mod. I'm tapped out, and my wife will do her own mods on me if I continue this way

[Unitmonster]

AudBall,

I run my AD-20 levels at, or near zero for the most part, and have only run into what I suspect might be brickwalling once (in about 20-25 shows now), not counting my first recording, which was distorted due to ignorance of the jb3's meters on my part.  Here is the "Hot" recording if you want to hear what I mean: http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=26921

Typically though, I've not had any issues, and am not even thinking of using attenuators.


Scoper,

Sorry, misunderstood the post and thought the mod was pricey.  Definately worth exploring the different recordings you can find and seeing how much of a difference you notice between the two setups.  The archive is great for doing that.

[scoper]

Changed my mind about the bb mod and went with a different option - converter cable (1/8" minijack to dual right angle XLR's, 1 ft cable). Same price as the original plan, since the right angle plugs are more expensive but I'm using less labor.

The right angle XLR's save about 2 inches of space at the input to the AD-20, making it easier to fit into the belly pack I use to hold my stealth gear. So I'm getting my bb back unmodified, with the external cable. The cable is being made up today, so I should see it in my hands tomorrow or Thursday.

First use of the new rig will be to record a solo Chris Thiele show next week.

Scott