Topic: 24/96 to 16/44.1 Best Practices & State of the Art Software?

[Gutbucket]

I've been wishing the same about FLAC support in Sam.  Haven't gotten around to exploring SRC further because I too mostly just play my 24/48s off the HD or SD cards.   Just a bit low on the priority list.

[live2496]

The issue I'm considering is that there is always some non-ideal performance of the algorithm when the window is not full.  So at the beginning or end of a stream when the window is being filled or being drained, the results that are produced are not the same results that would be produced if the window was constant.  This isn't an issue if the signal fades in and then fades out because the window can be padded with 0s and the behavior is correct for a signal with a slightly longer leader or trailer.

Where a problem occurs is when a show gets tracked and each track is batch processed as a discrete stream sequence.  The sliding window sees a discontinuity - most likely a step impulse - at the beginning and ending of each track.  When the batch processed tracks are concatenated at playback, there is discontinuity in the noise shaping at each track boundary. 

I doubt that the batch conversion process in R8Brain considers this. But in Samplitude this would be possible because segments are sequential on the same track.

One way to getaround this would be to bounce the whole region from start to finish to one file. Resample that file with R8Brain. Then somehow get the new file broken at the same edit points.

 









 

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

I doubt that the batch conversion process in R8Brain considers this. But in Samplitude this would be possible because segments are sequential on the same track.

One way to getaround this would be to bounce the whole region from start to finish to one file. Resample that file with R8Brain. Then somehow get the new file broken at the same edit points.
 

Yeah, it probably doesn't although somewhere in the back of my mind I think that there was a version of sox that did this.

If I'm using samplitude, I'll just do the conversion in there since I'm looking for ways to minimize my current workflow.   Is r8brain a better processor than samplitude?

[Brian Skalinder]

If I'm using samplitude, I'll just do the conversion in there since I'm looking for ways to minimize my current workflow.   Is r8brain a better processor than samplitude?

A while back, I did some informal testing of my own between R8Brain Free and SAM.  I decided couldn't hear the difference between SAM's top 2 SRC quality options and R8Brain Free, so I stuck with SAM.  Doesn't mean the differences aren't there, of course, just that I couldn't hear them in my application of the tools, on my playback, etc.  Probably worth doing a comp yourself if you're curious.

[live2496]

If I'm using samplitude, I'll just do the conversion in there since I'm looking for ways to minimize my current workflow.   Is r8brain a better processor than samplitude?

In looking at the graphs I see that R8Brain's sweep is a lot cleaner, but the passband graph shows that R8Brain starts filtering at about 18k whereas Samplitude starts at 21kHz. We are really only talking here about what passes through the process that is originally in the 18-21kHz range. And the artifacts are at -130db or -140db. Those frequencies would be masked by other louder sounds even if we could hear that high! Probably it only matters for test signals.

Weiss' Saracon performs really well, with filtering starting somewhere between 20kHz and 21kHz, but the sweep is really clean too.

[Chilly Brioschi]

Saracon-Lite is almost a kilobuck!
I couldn't bear to look at the DSD version, but I want it, deep in my greedy little heart. 
More German audio software that requires Dongles....   


Do you think that Samplitude would be a step-up from Audition?
I'm looking to redo the DAW, and I guess software is going to be a consideration.   

I always filter before a resample, Audition doesn't process without it.
Not sure what the cut-point is, but since I don't hear anywhere near 19K (thanks FM stereo pilot tones!), it matters little to me.
If I'm flat to 18K, probably 16kHz, that's all I'll ever hear, maybe,.... and on a good day.
Strangely, I can appreciate the difference between  16/44.1 and 24/88.2, although I am unsure why.

I haven't made a 24/96 recording in years, but I am thinking about going to it and letting the CD redbook fall by the wayside.
If I wanted to go WMA-Lossless, would I still need to downsample to 44.1?
Just thinking about a way to get the tunes into the car....

[live2496]

Well, I mentioned Saracon because the graphs looked pretty good.   The best value is R8Brain for SRC and the pro version is not too expensive.

re:dongle
Samplitude requires a dongle too if you go for the non SE versions. Your starting post mentioned workflow and Samp is definitely one way to go to get things done quickly. The SE version is only 50 euros, but it doesn't burn cd's. You have to get into the higher versions for that. I bought the pro version of v.7 a few years ago, so an occasional upgrade keeps me up to date.

I don't know how to get higher than CD quality into a car. I have always considered cars too noisy to hear subtle details. However, I guess you can hear most anything if you turn it up loud enough.     Can you explain your thinking about WMA-lossless? It looks like it supports up to six channels of 24/96 audio.

[macdaddy]

i like sam, too.

i guess, lil kim, that from a vip you could mixdown the audio into one track; the track markers you had inserted will be preserved, then run r8brain, then export the audio so each cd track is its own file...

i have just stuck with that pow-r3 (or whatever that last one is in the dither selection menu)...

[Chilly Brioschi]

i like sam, too.

i guess, lil kim, that from a vip you could mixdown the audio into one track; the track markers you had inserted will be preserved, then run r8brain, then export the audio so each cd track is its own file...

i have just stuck with that pow-r3 (or whatever that last one is in the dither selection menu)...

Wasn't pow-r3 a plugin from MaxiBit or Logic? or am I confusing names from some dither shoot-out?


About the WMA-Lossless....  the car player will play WMA disks, but I'm not sure at what encoding.
Now I have to burn a WMA disc with a bunch of files of different rates and see what happens

   Academic version of Samplitude for under $250...  I just may have to go it.

[Gutbucket]

re:dongle
Samplitude requires a dongle too if you go for the non SE versions. Your starting post mentioned workflow and Samp is definitely one way to go to get things done quickly. The SE version is only 50 euros, but it doesn't burn cd's. You have to get into the higher versions for that. I bought the pro version of v.7 a few years ago, so an occasional upgrade keeps me up to date.

I bought Samplitude v10 Master edition a few months back for $300.  Basically its similar to the full version but limited to 2 track work with only 4 tracks allowed.  No dongle required but has an option to use one if you want to load the app on multiple machines, supports burning CD & DVD, includes some restoration suite plugins, and supposedly has better dither and SRC algorithms than the SE version.  Take a look at the Samp site for a comparison chart if interested.

[live2496]

Wasn't pow-r3 a plugin from MaxiBit or Logic? or am I confusing names from some dither shoot-out?

According to wikipedia it was developed by Millenia Media, Weiss, Dolby Labs and Z-Systems and has been licensed to various companies.
Samplitude and Samplitude Pro and Sequoia have it.