Topic: SLIM DEVICES Squeeze box

[Colin Liston]

Anyone have one of these?

http://www.slimdevices.com

I am thinking of getting one, but wanted to see if anyone had a reivew.

[nickgregory]

do a search for squeezebox, this gets brought up every month or so, doesnt support 24/96

[Colin Liston]

I think it does now, or am I reading this wrong

From their web site:

Enjoy superior sound quality—Squeezebox2 features a high fidelity 24-bit Burr-Brown™ DAC, legendary in the audiophile community for their clean output and ultra-low distortion characteristics. Digital optical, coax, and analog connectors can plug into any home theater, stereo or amplified speakers.

And:
Listen to more audio formats—With support for MP3, WAV, FLAC, WMA, AAC, and Ogg Vorbis, Squeezebox2 handles all of today's leading and emerging formats without sacrificing audio quality. With built-in support for lossless compression technology (FLAC) and "pure software" SlimDSP™ architecture, your hardware investment is protected against technical obsolescence.

[nickgregory]

it does support 24/48, but not 24/96

[Nick's Picks]

and there are some companies working on killer MODs for it as well, from what i have read on audiocircle.com
looks cool.

[Daryan]

Mine is heading to Bolder next week

Even in stock form it will blow away quite a bit of the >1000 transport competition. 


The techs are supposedlyt looking into streaming 24/96, but last I heard it may not even be possible. 

[it-goes-to-eleven]

A new version of the hardware was just announced yesterday...

http://slimdevices.com/

And, they're offering $100 off on 2 units.


At some point, I may try and add some cheezeball transcoding support for 24/96 (resample on the fly in software to 24/48). It is not ideal as FLAC files would need to be extracted first (rather than extracted on the head unit).

Large music collection performance still has issues.

[MattD]

Arg! New hardware and still only 24/48 max.

[ethan]

Anyone have one of these?

http://www.slimdevices.com

I am thinking of getting one, but wanted to see if anyone had a reivew.

I have one of the first gen ones...it's freaking awesome. I run on a linux box so mine will play both SHN and flac. I love the digi out on it. I record internet radio that way.

[Brian Skalinder]

Just got this update from Slim Devices:

Firmware 64 for Squeezebox2/v3 (in slimserver 6.5) includes downsampling to
48kHz for 96kHz FLAC and WAV playback. It is not possible for the Squeezebox
hardware to do 96kHz playback.

24-bit 96kHz FLAC and WAV playback is now available on Transporter (see
http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_transporter.html).

[Daryan]

Woot, I am upgrading over lunch.  This literally makes my day.  Would anyone be interested in me posting pics of an external power supply I built for this thing with instructions?  It is a direct copy of the bolder ultimate that I built if anyone is interested.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Woot, I am upgrading over lunch.

This does not yet appear to be available in any builds.. The new firmware was not in the nightly I just pulled. They're thrashing pretty hard on getting 6.5 out for the transporter release.  So I'm guessing they'll roll this in really soon since they did say it would go in 6.5.

[mwz]

   nice - thanks for the heads up.. woiks like a charm.

[mwz]

http://www.slimdevices.com/downloads/nightly/

just installed this on the server and it installed 64 on the player.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Ah.. Thanks.. I was looking at the new beta and it is still behind the nightly..

I wonder how they are doing the resample?  The bug filing implied the fix was done in the firmware.

[Daryan]

Following up...the mods I have done thus far are strictly based on the power supply, an all out assult really that takes the unit towards world class sound-wise.  I also have the beta model from Bolder with digital mods, and will be doing analog mods sometime soon.  I will start a new thread and post pics and suggestions later this week.  Just a heads up, the power supply I built has more $$$ in parts than the sb3 costs!

D~

[L Ron Hoover]

Not to sound like an ass, but what difference would the power supply make if I'm just using the digi out on the SB?

[Daryan]

I do not understand the theory behind it at all, for that you would need to pick others brains.  However, you will find just about everyone who has upgraded the power supply using just the digital out has heard extreme differnces.  It really and truly is night and day.  I only use the digital out as well, so I can verify what they are hearing as well.  Go to the bolder forum at audiocicrle and read, that's about all I have.

[todd e]

i've had a squeezebox for two years now and i love it.  the price was steep for v1, but since i don't have to burn audio CDs it was well worth it.
i'm having a hard time accessing external drives, the mapped drive feature just doesn't cut it.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

i'm having a hard time accessing external drives, the mapped drive feature just doesn't cut it.

FWIW, I use symbolic links under linux to map 9 drives.  Works great.

[Brian Skalinder]

i'm having a hard time accessing external drives, the mapped drive feature just doesn't cut it.

FWIW, I use symbolic links under linux to map 9 drives.  Works great.

FWIW, I'm using Win2K and am able to map external drives.  In fact, ALL my music is now on external drives.  I very vaguely (in other words, maybe I didn't do it after all) recall originally trying to map to the UNC/share name (//computername/sharename), and that didn't work.  So I mapped a drive letter and specify it and the directory (h:/audio/collection/live/).  Works fine for me, now.

[Daryan]

Brian,

That overnight file is in some strange format.  How do you open it?

Thanks

D~

[Brian Skalinder]

That overnight file is in some strange format.  How do you open it?

I assume you're talking about the file mwz linked:

http://www.slimdevices.com/downloads/nightly/SlimServer_v2006-09-19/SlimServer_v2006-09-19.noarch.rpm

Rather than work out how to use the package manager file above, just go to the nightly download page, navigate to the date you wish, and then download the appropriate file for your config.  For example, if you're running Windows, download the Windows Executable file listed.

[L Ron Hoover]

I do not understand the theory behind it at all, for that you would need to pick others brains.  However, you will find just about everyone who has upgraded the power supply using just the digital out has heard extreme differnces.  It really and truly is night and day.  I only use the digital out as well, so I can verify what they are hearing as well.  Go to the bolder forum at audiocicrle and read, that's about all I have.

$750 for a DC power supply? Holy crap!!! What voltage does it (the SB) take? I would think powering it off of an SLA battery would work just as well. No?

[it-goes-to-eleven]

$750 for a DC power supply? Holy crap!!! What voltage does it (the SB) take? I would think powering it off of an SLA battery would work just as well. No?

Holy cow indeed. Since we're talking about digital output in this case, the difference in output could be quantified..

I think that would be very interesting..  What percent of the samples are different and by how much, etc.

[Daryan]

That overnight file is in some strange format.  How do you open it?

I assume you're talking about the file mwz linked:

http://www.slimdevices.com/downloads/nightly/SlimServer_v2006-09-19/SlimServer_v2006-09-19.noarch.rpm

Rather than work out how to use the package manager file above, just go to the nightly download page, navigate to the date you wish, and then download the appropriate file for your config.  For example, if you're running Windows, download the Windows Executable file listed.

Thanks so much, very appreciated Brian.

[Daryan]

I do not understand the theory behind it at all, for that you would need to pick others brains.  However, you will find just about everyone who has upgraded the power supply using just the digital out has heard extreme differnces.  It really and truly is night and day.  I only use the digital out as well, so I can verify what they are hearing as well.  Go to the bolder forum at audiocicrle and read, that's about all I have.

$750 for a DC power supply? Holy crap!!! What voltage does it (the SB) take? I would think powering it off of an SLA battery would work just as well. No?

Lots of reasons it is $750.00.  The jensen caps are 50 bucks a pop, and I know Wayne is using at least 2 if not three.  He also uses very expensive Nitro wire as well as a lot of rather esoteric tweaky parts, not unlike the one I made.  I believe he also is using bybee filters in the MKII, but I am not sure on that.  Each unit probably takes upwards of 10 hours in labor to put together correctly, and that is knowing what you are doing.  For the rest of us it takes 3 months   Add that to R+D and I would guess product margin is roughly 50% give or take.

Voltage is 5v dc.  Battery power would work, but im my erperience limits dynamics YMMV.  That said, it would take quite a bit more than just a %V battery to make this work.  You would still need a voltage regulator, smoothing caps, etc to maintain a constant signal.  The sb3 is quite picky.

[L Ron Hoover]

What about wired vs. wireless? Have you noticed a difference in sound that way? I'm on the fence about getting one of these, or just getting a computer for the living room.

[Daryan]

I have read that there is no discernible difference.  However, I have never run the unit wired other than to test whether it worked.  To get the best sound from a computer you are going to need ultra quiet hard drives, ultra fast processers, lots of high speed RAM etc.  I was on the fence about this too until I heard the squeezebox. 

They have a 30 day return policy I think. 

[it-goes-to-eleven]

These are way better than a computer.  The remote and display are great.. I love listening to a random playlist and when something comes up that I want to hear, I just de-shuffle the playlist by pressing a button and it continues with that cd/show.

They do have a 30 day return policy..   Have you tried the server software?   It is all free. You can use it with 'softsqueeze' and it will emulate the actual hardware.  If you're thinking about doing it, you might as well get started with the software. These things hold their value pretty well, so you could always sell it.

Unlike most any other product, it is continuously being developed and improved.. They're releasing a pretty major improvement to the software this week. That version is in final beta.

I ran mine wired for years and ran on wireless for a couple years.  I now run wired.  My sb3 is directly connected to my amp so there is no way I'd risk wireless.  Ethernet cables can be up to 300', BTW.

I did the wireless before they offered that feature by using a linksys bridge (ethernet to wireless adapter). That was on the first gen slimdevices hardware (pretty crude, mp3 only). The wireless was really solid and worked great.. But that was with mp3's that required far less bandwidth than 24 bit files..

A couple years ago we had issues getting an sb2 wireless version to work reliably with a friend's windows based system.  We didn't want to spend much time on it and after some effort debugging just used a cable.

A few years back they switched from a UDP based protocol to TCP.  Basically, if the data gets there it will be correct and bit perfect, even on wireless.  But you could still have interference that would stop the music once the buffer is completely empty.

[Daryan]

The SB3 also alieviates the need for a pre with its digital volume control.

[Brian Skalinder]

I've not heard a difference between wired v. wireless, though I've not done any official head-to-head comps - just casual listening set up one way, and then more casually listening at a later date set up the other way.

FWIW, at first I had trouble running 24/48 over my Linksys Wireless-G access point (WAP54g v.2).  My WAP was 5 thick, old-construction walls away from the SB3, and I had trouble with skipping.  I also had trouble with reliable wireless for PC in the same room.  Not so much a squeezebox issue as a wireless issue, it turns out.  I applied a hacked firmware to my access point to increase it's broadcast strength, and no problems since.  Couldn't be happier.  I'm totally media-free now in my listening:  PC > DAC > Audio Experiences Symphony / McCormack DNA-1 > VSA VR-1s in the office, PC > router > wireless > SB3 digi-out > STR-DA3000ES > VR-1 for living room, and iAudio M3 for portable audio.  Love it across the board.

[nickgregory]

damn, may be time to get a SB3....is the pricing on their website pretty much the best you are going to get or do they have distributor relationships at all?

[it-goes-to-eleven]

That's as good as it gets..  They sometimes have a $50 off two type of offer. I think they have some very limited distro outside the US but it surely is not a path to discount.

[nickgregory]

That's as good as it gets..  They sometimes have a $50 off two type of offer. I think they have some very limited distro outside the US but it surely is not a path to discount.

ok thanks...will need to look into getting a unit...

[thegreatgumbino]

Damn.  Wish I would have looked into this prior to picking up the M-Auido Firewire Audiophile.  Seems like it would have been a step up.

[Brian Skalinder]

Damn.  Wish I would have looked into this prior to picking up the M-Auido Firewire Audiophile.  Seems like it would have been a step up.

I don't know that it's a step up.  Depends on your needs.  I use the wireless SB3 in my LR because my PC's on the other end of the house and I didn't want to run a cable to nor put a PC in the LR.  But for the office, where my PC resides, I just route a S/PDIF signal from my existing soundcard to my DAC/stereo and skip the SB3.  No need for an SB3 if the stereo's in the same room, IMO.  Besides, I far prefer using Foobar for playback on my PC in the office.

[thegreatgumbino]

Damn.  Wish I would have looked into this prior to picking up the M-Auido Firewire Audiophile.  Seems like it would have been a step up.

I don't know that it's a step up.  Depends on your needs.  I use the wireless SB3 in my LR because my PC's on the other end of the house and I didn't want to run a cable to nor put a PC in the LR.  But for the office, where my PC resides, I just route a S/PDIF signal from my existing soundcard to my DAC/stereo and skip the SB3.  No need for an SB3 if the stereo's in the same room, IMO.  Besides, I far prefer using Foobar for playback on my PC in the office.

I guess I was looking at it as a step up due to the fact that:

1) I'd have the option of using it wireless.  Would be nice to move it downstairs for listening if I wanted to.
2) It has a remote.
3) I dig the streaming radio features.

Although the M-Audio box supports 24/96.

[Daryan]

You forgot...it sounds better too

[mwz]

Ah.. Thanks.. I was looking at the new beta and it is still behind the nightly..

I wonder how they are doing the resample?  The bug filing implied the fix was done in the firmware.

Bitrate: 4608kbps CBR

Sample Rate: 96.0 kHz

Sample Size: 24 Bits


Good question - above is what slimserver reports w/ 24/96 files.

[pfife]

You forgot...it sounds better too

do you mean the sb3 > maudio firewire?

[Daryan]

You forgot...it sounds better too

do you mean the sb3 > maudio firewire?

Yes.

[dmonterisi]

did i read right that people are doing $750 power supply mods to a $300 box that is receiving a wireless signal from your pc and doing an on the fly conversion of flac to pcm and outputting digitally?  am i right?  that seems nuts.

[nickgregory]

did i read right that people are doing $750 power supply mods to a $300 box that is receiving a wireless signal from your pc and doing an on the fly conversion of flac to pcm and outputting digitally?  am i right?  that seems nuts.

dude you gotta trust your ears

[dmonterisi]

i'm just trying to figure out what possibly could be affected by improving the power supply if there is no analog stage?

[nickgregory]

i'm just trying to figure out what possibly could be affected by improving the power supply if there is no analog stage?

it smooths out the wireless signal

[L Ron Hoover]

I just don't understand why a power supply would have an effect on zeros and ones.   Then again, I haven't heard, so what do I know?

[dmonterisi]

aside from the power supply "issues" with the squeezebox...it sounds like a nifty solution for sure and i may look into getting one once i upgrade the rest of my playback and build a new PC with more storage capacity.

I'm having trouble taking this company seriously though, based on their discussion of their high-end device, the Transporter.  Aside from the preposterous name, it is basically a squeezebox with a good DAC right?  and it costs $2K?  wouldn't someone looking at something like this go with a squeezebox and a high-end dedicated DAC?  I mean if you've got 2k to throw around on a DAC, you are not looking at this thing right?  you want the DAC's off the power circuitry that is powering the wireless receiver and the flac/mp3/other format decoder, i would think.  and then they say stuff like:

Accurate Digital—Transporter's digital path is not only "bit perfect", but also extremely accurate in timing precision. Clock signals in Transporter are handled not as ones and zeroes, but as precision analog signals. Specialized crystal oscillators, careful clock management, and linear-regulated logic supplies ensure the lowest possible jitter throughout the system.

what does it mean to handle clock signals as precision analog signals?

Transporter's sound quality surpasses even the most exotic compact disc players.

this is its list of features:

AKM's professional-grade DAC
Fully balanced analog stage
Super-regulated linear supplies
Dual display
A clever knob!

I don't know why, but this device bugs me...and it's making me feel like no matter what i buy from this company, i'm going to be ripped off.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Oh man.... Logitech just bought Slim Devices!

[dmonterisi]

Oh man.... Logitech just bought Slim Devices!

yeah, noticed that too.  ugh.

also, aren't all internet radio streams compressed anyways? 

who would buy the transporter?  what is their market?  i mean, who other than us, has large volumes of high-res audio stored on PCs?  anyone else who cares about high-end audio is not buyng the transporter. 

anyone know why i care about this so much today??

[nickgregory]

anyone know why i care about this so much today??

its your way of dealing with nervous energy before first pitch tonight

[dmonterisi]

anyone know why i care about this so much today??

its your way of dealing with nervous energy before first pitch tonight

nail
head

i'm kinda freaking out, can't get any work done and i put too much sugar in my last cup of coffee.

so is there a $2k power supply mod for the transporter?

 

[nickgregory]

anyone know why i care about this so much today??

its your way of dealing with nervous energy before first pitch tonight

nail
head

i'm kinda freaking out, can't get any work done and i put too much sugar in my last cup of coffee.

so is there a $2k power supply mod for the transporter?

 

I understand...before game 7 of the finals last year with the Canes, I was useless at work..hell, I was useless for that 2 month playoff run

as for a $2K power supply, it would probably suck...remember it has to be a multiple of 3 times to be worthwhile...if it holds to the squeezebox 3 precedent

[dmonterisi]

you're right.  it probably needs its own 20 amp dedicated circuit to really see it's true potential.  actually, a direct connection to the feed off the city grid will be necessary.

[dmonterisi]

It remains to be heard how the Transporter will sound... I would have preferred to spend $1K on an improved squeezebox that does 24/96 and another $1K on a good (separate!) DAC. I just don't like having them combined..

But make no mistake, the squeezebox is a bad ass piece of gear!  I'd never give it up.  I bought their original slimp3 back when they first came out, around 2000.

i agree, the transporter seems like a ridiculous piece of gear to me.  i understand there can be some jitter in this process and that extra money could be useful in developing a box, but this just seems stupid to me.  a squeezebox and a 2k DAC seems like a much better investment to me.  unless...

it still doesn't output 24/96??

Ah.. Thanks.. I was looking at the new beta and it is still behind the nightly..

I wonder how they are doing the resample?  The bug filing implied the fix was done in the firmware.

Bitrate: 4608kbps CBR

Sample Rate: 96.0 kHz

Sample Size: 24 Bits


Good question - above is what slimserver reports w/ 24/96 files.

i guess the processing chips in the squeezebox are not powerful enough to do 24/96 flac to LPCM conversion on the fly??

[it-goes-to-eleven]

The sb firmware was recently enhanced to support 24/96.... by dropping every other sample to get 48khz.  They've said the hardware can't do 24/96.  It would be interesting to know where the limitation is.. If it is the D/A or if maybe the spdif output could do 24/96.  Getting the 24/96 to the sb is not an issue.

I'm sure the transporter is using much higher quality clocks and there is minimal jitter.  That's an advantage with this architecture.. the pcm comes into a buffer and is clocked out very accurately.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

A clever knob!

I don't know why, but this device bugs me...and it's making me feel like no matter what i buy from this company, i'm going to be ripped off.

I've been thinking it would be really to have a knob hooked to the squeezebox. Crank it like a tuner, but instead of changing stations it moves you forward or back in the playlist....

[OFOTD]

who would buy the transporter?  what is their market?  i mean, who other than us, has large volumes of high-res audio stored on PCs?  anyone else who cares about high-end audio is not buyng the transporter. 

Companies that handle Investor Relations.  Venture Capital firms, publicly traded companies for board meetings, investor meeting and the like.  We have a venture capital firm as a client and they are very adamant on using the "very best" and the transporter for better or worse fills that niche.


I do have to say that I am continually shocked that the Squeezebox has not become totally mainstream by now.   

[bgalizio]

I do have to say that I am continually shocked that the Squeezebox has not become totally mainstream by now.  

Agreed. It changed the way I listen to music at home.

[dmonterisi]

Companies that handle Investor Relations.  Venture Capital firms, publicly traded companies for board meetings, investor meeting and the like.  We have a venture capital firm as a client and they are very adamant on using the "very best" and the transporter for better or worse fills that niche.

really?  what use does a corporate board have for a flac player?

I do have to say that I am continually shocked that the Squeezebox has not become totally mainstream by now.   

why?  can't you still get that Airtunes gizmo?  anyone other than us geeks who is looking to get their music from pc to stereo is likely using Itunes.

[OFOTD]

really?  what use does a corporate board have for a flac player?

Well it all depends on how you look at its intended use.  You and I will think of it as a FLAC player.  I have a client that is a Fortune 10 company.  You mention the word mp3, compressed or anything with tunes in the name to them and they'll kill you.  But mention state of the art, wave of the future, uncompressed and secure and they'll bite.   Very much overkill for their purposes but its all about perception.   A strange example is like the office workers that only use Office and the web who have to have a digital flat panel monitor.  Well in reality they most likely will never ever notice the better quality of monitor because they still use lower quality technology.  But the office worker will swear to you that they are more productive now because they have a digital flat panel.

I'm not one to argue when someone with the money buys something that is overkill.

why?  can't you still get that Airtunes gizmo?  anyone other than us geeks who is looking to get their music from pc to stereo is likely using Itunes.

Again this is a perception thing.   I have an Ikea down the street that recently opened.  My wife and I went the first week.  In one of the sections of the store I saw an employee opening a squeezebox box.  I asked if they were selling them for some strange reason.  He told us that they play different music or musak in each part of the store and they used the squeezebox to have the different channels in the different departments.


You and I look at these devices for the feature limits like FLAC playback.  Others are just fired up that it does mp3.  Take the MicroTrack 2496.  How many owners do you think use the full capability of the devise and how many use it strictly to record in mp3.

[dmonterisi]

ok, either you're missing my point, or i'm missing yours.  re: the corporate board, what actual use does a wireless audio player have?  you say "overkill for their purposes" but i haven't figured out what their purpose is at all.

the ikea use actually sounds pretty reasonable.  but my point there was that the reason these things are not "mainstream" is that the feature set is geared toward a niche.  mainstream users go with something like Airtunes.  i mean if it wasn't for this forum, i'd have no idea that the squeezebox exists.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

My CMC6's and KC5 collettes came from a board room installation.. They had an active gooseneck mounted MK4S at each seat.  Apparently the MK4S is great for "You're fired".

I'll bet Ikea saves a ton using the squeezbox.

I'm sure they play mood music at some of the board meetings.  Maybe some of the board members even have their own theme music when they enter.

[OFOTD]

ok, either you're missing my point, or i'm missing yours.  re: the corporate board, what actual use does a wireless audio player have?  you say "overkill for their purposes" but i haven't figured out what their purpose is at all.

Let me try and give a couple of examples from my experiences.

A company that I am currently on the Board of Advisors for has monthly meetings for the Board of Advisors as well as separate meetings for the Board of Directors.  Two separate boards.  (NOTE: This company was the one that actually turned me on to the squeezebox).  At our last meeting we all sat and listened to the CEO talking about the company growth and so on.  We then turned our focus to what analysts were saying about the company.  Turn on the squeezebox.  Roughly around 20 analyst feeds were being broadcast from the web to an office where one of this companies tech workers was maintaining the feed for us.  Due to the the discussion in the board room he was not allowed in that meeting or board room.   The tech knew which part and how much of each feed to broadcast before switching feeds.  This was arrainged ahead of time so that we in the room only heard what we needed to and not what we didn't.   We were quickly able to move from feed to feed without some tech or other person being in the room (he was in another room)

In that example we (board) needed to hear audio as part of a sensitive as well as confidential meeting.  The squeezebox allowed us to have the meeting in private.  The tech did listen to the feed was was fine as long as he was not listening to our conversation. 

Another example would be a situation where different members of a board were in different offices for a meeting.  The audio feed is broadcast to those members at their individual convenience in their own offices instead of working everyone's schedule to all be in the same room.   This also helps with certain DRM issues that some companies are working with now.  Let's say an analyst files a report and DRM's it so that only specific people can listen to it.  Well a company has one person with a licence to listen .  By broadcasting it over the squeezebox all of the people who need to hear it can without having to be in the one person's office.

Again FLAC isn't a thought.  But being able to have private meetings with a room full of non-techies present but still helping is very valuable.

The perception is that the squeezebox can do this better than anything with the name 'tunes" in it.  The reality is that the AirPort probably could have very well done the same thing.  In the first example though we only saw the squeezebox on the credenza and not a computer on the table.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Just doing some gear swappin' this morning..  For a while I was running squeezebox3 > dna125 > VR4genI.. It was Nice.  I recently moved some stuff around and decided to add a pre-amp back in the chain...  I lost *significant* detail when I switched to squeezebox3 > Linn LK1 > dna125 > VR4genI.

Granted, the LK1 is old tech, etc. But I kinda doubt any preamp could improve the detail when inserted between the source and the amp.  Though I do get more output from the amp when running the pre.  It would be nice to find a reasonably priced pre that doesn't kill the sound when I put it in the chain.  I mainly need to accomodate my turntable and at least two aux ins (sb3 + other).

Squeezebox3 > amp is a damn good sounding low cost option....

[Colin Liston]

Has anyone used any of the 3rd party plugins for their squeezebox?  They have an xm plugin that looks pretty cool.

Anyone?

[jdawg]

Squeezebox3 > amp is a damn good sounding low cost option....

How much improvement would a Squeezebox3 > DAC > amp  get you?  The dac in the sb3 is pretty decent, right?  Looking to get a sb3, but I also might be selling my external dac to help fund this.

[pfife]

Squeezebox3 > amp is a damn good sounding low cost option....

How much improvement would a Squeezebox3 > DAC > amp  get you?  The dac in the sb3 is pretty decent, right?  Looking to get a sb3, but I also might be selling my external dac to help fund this.

burr brown... really nice sounding dac in the sb3.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

It would depend on the specific dac.. the sb3 analog out is Very good.  I'd consider dumping the DAC and the pre.

As I mentioned in this thread back in November, I added a preamp back into my sb3 > dna125 > vr4gen1 combo... I didn't like it. I ran that way for a few weeks and am now back direct with no preamp. Definitely a case where less is more.  I've gone back and forth a few times but the difference is dramatic (even on 16 bit material) and I now find it very difficult to accept the degradation of a preamp.  It is frustrating from a convenience standpoint.  The preamp is no slouch, a linn LK1.

Ultimately I need to find a pre or line driver that doesn't muck the sound.  One other shortcoming of running directly into the amp is output levels.  One downside of direct connection is that a preamp normally provides quite a bit of boost beyond line levels.  So although the sb provides full line level output, it is less than a typical pre and ultimately can't reach the levels of my sb3 > pre > dna125.

What are you running for a pre?  I think you should consider testing with and without your pre and consider the possibility that you may not want the pre or the dac in there.

[cleantone]

I cannot read all of this thread to see if this new unit has been mentioned. I was coming to this forum (which I had never opened before) to show you this new Slim Devices Transporter Slim Devices Transporter!

[Nick's Picks]

its cool..but too much money.


Im surprised to hear that Lin preamp is screwing w/things.

let me suggest a Modright.  Carl has one.  Its the best i've ever heard. 
the Symp+ w/a good set of rolled tubes is also *very* nice, on par w/the modright, and 1/2 the price.
the modright is better still though.  not by a long shot, but noticeable.