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Author Topic: New taper starter gear questions...now all geared up!  (Read 13121 times)

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Offline nolamule

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New taper starter gear questions...now all geared up!
« on: November 25, 2015, 12:00:47 PM »
Greeting’s y’all! I am new to the taper world but an old hat in the live music scene. Recently I have been toying with the idea of getting a taping rig for a different show experience. I have been doing some extensive research and here is what I have come up with for my first rig. I don’t have a ton of cash to spend (~$1,500) but also don’t want to waste my time with lousy recordings. Please provide any comments on any of the selections I have made, comparisons between products, or better options. I will be primarily taping local concerts in small venues, arena shows, and outdoor festivals.

Mics: AKG C460b CK61
Mic Preamp / A2D Conversion: Apogee Mini-Me
Recorder: Roland R-09HR
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 11:20:23 PM by nolamule »

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2015, 01:26:37 PM »
Welcome to TS!

I'm sure others can chime in with specific recommendations, but I'd swap out the MiniMe > R-09HR with a standalone record that acts as preamp, ADC, and recorder all in one.  I, for example, use a (quite outdated at this time, but still very functional) Fostex FR-2LE.

You should be able to pick up an all-in-one recorder for under $500 used, for sure, and probably new...though I'm not up to speed on current recorders.  That should leave you a good balance of budget to dedicate to mics.  And don't forget you'll blow ~$100-200 of the budget on accessories like mic cables, mic mounts, mic stand, etc.
Milab VM-44 Links > Fostex FR-2LE or
Naiant IPA (tinybox format) >
Roland R-05

Offline Life In Rewind

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2015, 01:42:48 PM »
Greeting’s y’all! I am new to the taper world but an old hat in the live music scene. Recently I have been toying with the idea of getting a taping rig for a different show experience. I have been doing some extensive research and here is what I have come up with for my first rig. I don’t have a ton of cash to spend (~$1,500) but also don’t want to waste my time with lousy recordings. Please provide any comments on any of the selections I have made, comparisons between products, or better options. I will be primarily taping local concerts in small venues, arena shows, and outdoor festivals.

Mics: AKG C460b CK61
Mic Preamp / A2D Conversion: Apogee Mini-Me
Recorder: Roland R-09HR

I don't think that recorder has a digital input. So you'd be left using the Roland's A/D section - that seems like a big compromise.

And - That's sort of a dated rig/approach - and harkens back to the (not too distant) days when it was hard to find small portable recorders with good front ends that could handle high SPLs well.

Starting around the Fostex FR2-LE - that began to change - and has really opened up with newer devices form Zoom and Tascam.

I'd be shooting for an all-in-one recorder - and ditch the preamp...as many have done.

Spend money on mics for best effect.

Offline nolamule

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2015, 01:50:29 PM »

I don't think that recorder has a digital input. So you'd be left using the Roland's A/D section - that seems like a big compromise.

And - That's sort of a dated rig/approach - and harkens back to the (not too distant) days when it was hard to find small portable recorders with good front ends that could handle high SPLs well.

Starting around the Fostex FR2-LE - that began to change - and has really opened up with newer devices form Zoom and Tascam.

I'd be shooting for an all-in-one recorder - and ditch the preamp...as many have done.

Spend money on mics for best effect.

Like a Zoom H6? What if I could get my hands on a V2 as the preamp?
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 02:01:32 PM by nolamule »

Offline JimmieC

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2015, 02:38:18 PM »
^ I love my V2.  The preamps / phatom power in these days digital recorders are better than they used to be, at least compared to the DAT recorders I had.  I still love my V2 and almost allows run AKG 460 or Naiant couplers ~> V2 ~> digital recorder.
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Mic:AKG C460B(CK61)/HM1000(CK32/CK47), Naiant Couplings/PFA, ADK-TL; Preamp:Lunatec V2, Naiant Littlebox v1.5; Rec:Tascam DA-P1/DR-100mkii/DR-680; Cable:GAKcables; Bar:Shure A27M, Robb Bar 23-cm, it-goes-to-eleven DINa Active Bar, GAK 3' Bar; Mount:Shure A53M, Audix MC-MICRO; Clamp:AKG K&M 237, Photek Grip Clamp w/Manfrotto 042; Stand: Manfrotto Alu Master 3 Riser 12' AC Stand/122B, Lowel Full Pole; Battery:18000mah Universal Lithium Battery; Playback:laptop>Schiit Modi>Yamaha HTR5890>Klipsch Synergy F2. My recordings on LMA

Offline nolamule

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2015, 02:46:51 PM »
^ I love my V2.  The preamps / phatom power in these days digital recorders are better than they used to be, at least compared to the DAT recorders I had.  I still love my V2 and almost allows run AKG 460 or Naiant couplers ~> V2 ~> digital recorder.

V2 are hard to come by it seems. The one I was looking at sold.

Here is the new setup I am looking at:

Mics: AKG C460b CK61
Preamp/ADC = Sound Devices USBPre 2
Recorder = Marantz PMD660/661 (has digital input)


Offline JimmieC

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2015, 02:50:47 PM »
Additionally, you can use the USBPre2 as a DAC at home but I have not used one.  Others know better.
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Mic:AKG C460B(CK61)/HM1000(CK32/CK47), Naiant Couplings/PFA, ADK-TL; Preamp:Lunatec V2, Naiant Littlebox v1.5; Rec:Tascam DA-P1/DR-100mkii/DR-680; Cable:GAKcables; Bar:Shure A27M, Robb Bar 23-cm, it-goes-to-eleven DINa Active Bar, GAK 3' Bar; Mount:Shure A53M, Audix MC-MICRO; Clamp:AKG K&M 237, Photek Grip Clamp w/Manfrotto 042; Stand: Manfrotto Alu Master 3 Riser 12' AC Stand/122B, Lowel Full Pole; Battery:18000mah Universal Lithium Battery; Playback:laptop>Schiit Modi>Yamaha HTR5890>Klipsch Synergy F2. My recordings on LMA

Offline Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2015, 02:57:52 PM »
Spend money on mics for best effect.

Seconded. If I had a $1500 budget I'd probably put nearly $1000 towards the mics, if not more.

My rig (see signature) runs right around $1500 (used). Trouble is that it will be hard to find those mics and that preamp...but there are other similar options.

Off the top of my head...couple of other mic options in the $1000 range. Beyerdynamic MC930 (full body version of what I have), Neumann KM184, Milab VM-44, Peluso CEMC-6. I'm sure there are other options, but that is what comes off the top of my head.

Remember you can always upgrade things later (and you will). Mics will most certainly be where you'll hear the biggest difference.
||| MICS:  Beyer CK930 | DPA 4022 | DPA 4080 | Nevaton MCE400 | Sennheiser Ambeo Headset |||
||| PREAMPS: DPA d:vice | Naiant Tinybox | Naiant IPA |||
||| DECKS: Sound Devices MixPre6 | iPod Touch 32GB |||
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Offline hoppedup

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2015, 03:03:21 PM »
My primary rig in the last year has been mics straight into a Tascam DR-60D.

I was using Milab VM-44 links straight into the recorder. Now I am using AKG SE300b CK91 in the same way. I borrowed a V2 for a few shows and found I preferred the sound of my recordings with no preamp in the chain. I bought the milabs for $1200 used. If you could find a deal like that and put it with a $200 recorder (DR-60D or 60DmkII), IMO you'd have a solid rig

I'd run mics straight into one of the newer recorders. You can always buy a preamp later if you feel you need to.

Don't forget you're also going to want to pick up mounts, cables, clamps, stand, bag and other accessories. It adds up.
AKG SE300B CK91
JB Mod NAK 300 CP1 - CP2

Tascam DR-40, Tascam DR-60D, Tascam DR-22WL, Marantz PMD-706
Panasonic Lumix DMC-G7K

↑↑↓↓←→←→ BA Start
         


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My recordings on LMA

Offline nolamule

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2015, 03:33:08 PM »
Noted guys: spend the money on mics upfront because everything can (and will) be upgraded later.

I have a line on some used AKG C460b and C480b both with CK61. Any preference on these or better options at the $1000/set price point?

As for the Preamp/ADC/Recorder I think I like the Tascam DR-680MKII because it has digital input in case I add a preamp/adc later.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 03:42:42 PM by nolamule »

Offline Life In Rewind

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2015, 11:27:36 PM »

Offline vanark

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2015, 09:40:01 AM »
I love my 60D and haven't run a preamp since I got it. No need and it sounds great. And you can sell the soundforge license of you don't have any need for it, saving even more.
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Offline goodcooker

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2015, 02:18:14 PM »

I also run a Tascam DR60d and think the built in mic preamps sound just fine for concert taping.

If I had 1500 bucks and I was putting together my first taping rig I would go with an all in one recorder of some sort (like the DR60d) or a modified one like this Tascam HDP2 with the Busman mod here http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=175477.0. Or I would go with a separate preamp and recorder setup like a SD MP2>Sony M10 If you don't mind managing extra cables and batteries,

For mics I would go with
AKG 460/ck61/63
Neumann KM184
ADK TL (large diaphragm multipattern mics that are big and heavy but sound great and are cheap)
Peluso CEMC6 with all capsule patterns can be had brand new for around a grand, sound very Neumannish

Leave enough in your budget for cables, batteries, stand and whatnot. If you have been in live sound for a while you may have that stuff already sitting around or can roll your own....if not there is a thread in the Retail Space section with a link to community cable makers that can hook you up. I recommend Ted Gakidis. His cables are quality work and reasonably priced.

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Offline acidjack

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2015, 02:07:15 PM »
Dump the Apogee. Sounds good, but way outdated. Dump the R-09 -- outdated and no reason to run 2 boxes.

Get the AKGs and run them into a Roland R-26. One four channel box does it all. Outboard Preamps are a waste of time and money for the most part. I own some, but I've also got straight into my decks hundreds of times, and honestly, the difference is negligible these days. I've run just about everything at this point, FWIW.

I'd avoid anything branded Tascam even if the alternative was 2-3X the price. Just check any thread around here and read about the litany of issues.

I would have said the same about Zoom, but the F8 seems rock-solid, and that may be the case for the H6 as well (haven't used it).
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
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Offline swordfish

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2015, 04:16:09 AM »
..I am considereing to spare the below

AKG CK61, 62 ,63
Naiant actives
Naiant Tinybox lately modified by Jon with the new battry type and a belt clip
3 mic bars made to fit the Naiant actives....

note that I joint the Schoeps club and could use the money to buy more Schoeps gear...

IMO that will make a prefect starter set for open and  >:D taping


 

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