Topic: 480 vs. 414XLS vs. JWmod460's

[F.O.Bean]

 

i was gonna plump down somemore cash in the next 6 months or so and was wondering what YOU ALL would do

i am craving a small change but wanna stay w/ TEAM AKG

after my fine is paid off, i can grab somemore mics, or i can sell the 480's and get what i want

should i just snag a pair of 460's and get them modded then A/B them against the 480 bodies or should i just borrow a pair of mod460 bodies and run them just a few shows id ideally want to run them 10-15 times before i got an idea of how they REALLY sound, ya know?

I REALLY like SD's sound, but at times the 480 can be a bit brittle/bright, which isnt always a bad thing, always niice/crisp sound but im thinking a pair of JW mod460s would warm things out quite a bit also. cant always blame it on the mics, because most shows i see anymore are small and dont have great sound tech's sooo........... bad sound=bad tapes

i always did like the warmth and tight punch of the 414's also, the new XLS w/ the subcard are just over the top IMO, i ALWAYS wanted to run a subcard from AKG, the time is here

i never ever EVER stealth so that has no value in my choice what to do

mics>v3>maudio flash tracker will hopefully be the setup if the maudio works out

so yes im and pondering what the hell to do!

i will prolly unload after the moedown this year if i do, so come on folks, help me out!

who wants to loan me some gear for awhile JWmod460's would be ideal! or if anyone wants to loan out their new 414XLS's, lemme know

[johnw]

Any chance you might hit either moe Cincy or Buffalo? I might be at both and if I can swap my MiniMe for a V3 I'd love to do an A-B with you. Same stand, caps, config, height, preamp.

Edit: I'd have to find some bumblebees too I guess.

[spreadheadtom]

keepongoin is using my 414's tonite.  I haven't even got to use them yet    .  he'll be running 414> V3> JB3


  Tommy

[keepongoin]

maybe i can grab some 483s and an extra V3 before  head to the show tonight to run a comp.

[F.O.Bean]

Any chance you might hit either moe Cincy or Buffalo? I might be at both and if I can swap my MiniMe for a V3 I'd love to do an A-B with you. Same stand, caps, config, height, preamp.

Edit: I'd have to find some bumblebees too I guess.

nope, cant do either

keepongoin is using my 414's tonite. I haven't even got to use them yet . he'll be running 414> V3> JB3


 Tommy

id love to hear those results

maybe i can grab some 483s and an extra V3 before head to the show tonight to run a comp.

that would be HIGHLY appreciated

[creekfreak]

If you are hankering for something new, go the 414 route...LD sounds is very different over SD sound and if you want the warmth, then you can't go wrong with LD mics

[F.O.Bean]

If you are hankering for something new, go the 414 route...LD sounds is very different over SD sound and if you want the warmth, then you can't go wrong with LD mics

what ive been thinking too, hell, i honestly may just buy the 414's then i wont have to sell a thing!

id ideally like to get some JW mod460 bodies too

[OOK]

If you are hankering for something new, go the 414 route...LD sounds is very different over SD sound and if you want the warmth, then you can't go wrong with LD mics

what ive been thinking too, hell, i honestly may just buy the 414's then i wont have to sell a thing!

id ideally like to get some JW mod460 bodies too

DR. OOK  Here is your perscription:
Continue to take the 480 twice a week.
When you feel chilly add 1 dose of 414's up close for warmth!
What are you kidding!   If you can swing it, get the 414's!  I know when I can afford it I will! and I run ho's.
You will have the best of both worlds SD's and LD's, what more could you ask for???

[Ray76]

If you are hankering for something new, go the 414 route...LD sounds is very different over SD sound and if you want the warmth, then you can't go wrong with LD mics

what ive been thinking too, hell, i honestly may just buy the 414's then i wont have to sell a thing!

id ideally like to get some JW mod460 bodies too

DR. OOK  Here is your perscription:
Continue to take the 480 twice a week.
When you feel chilly add 1 dose of 414's up close for warmth!
What are you kidding!   If you can swing it, get the 414's!  I know when I can afford it I will! and I run ho's.
You will have the best of both worlds SD's and LD's, what more could you ask for???

exactly/
+T !!

thats why i have sd, ld and mini mics!

[F.O.Bean]

If you are hankering for something new, go the 414 route...LD sounds is very different over SD sound and if you want the warmth, then you can't go wrong with LD mics

what ive been thinking too, hell, i honestly may just buy the 414's then i wont have to sell a thing!

id ideally like to get some JW mod460 bodies too

DR. OOK  Here is your perscription:
Continue to take the 480 twice a week.
When you feel chilly add 1 dose of 414's up close for warmth!
What are you kidding!   If you can swing it, get the 414's!  I know when I can afford it I will! and I run ho's.
You will have the best of both worlds SD's and LD's, what more could you ask for???

exactly/
+T !!

thats why i have sd, ld and mini mics!

exactly!

[creekfreak]

then again, as the other sluts here are pointing out, having a selection of mics to pic from is always nice...guess that is why I still hung onto my mk41's after selling the mk4's to get the TL's. 

[Ray76]

then again, as the other sluts here are pointing out, having a selection of mics to pic from is always nice...guess that is why I still hung onto my mk41's after selling the mk4's to get the TL's. 

Great minds think alike.
By the time this next year passes, ill have a studio full of stuff.

I cant help it , it all looks so good.Im an addict.

Ray

[F.O.Bean]

bump, what about you guys opinions on SOUND on these mics

[Nick Graham]

I don't think there's that much of a difference between the mod460s and the 480s. Sure, the JW mod adds a little warmness, but overall they're pretty close, i.e. if you love the sound of one you'll definitey love the other.

The 414s on the other hand are a completely different ballgame. Rich, silky, warm low end....a lot different to my ears, but still maintaining that signature AKG sound.

I've thought about picking up a pair of these (with maybe a MME to run behind 'em) just to experiment more with LD mics. The 5 patterns is what makes them so worthwhile.

Do it Bean - you know you want to!

[carlbeck]

The ONLY problem with the 414's or any LD mic is when you are in a large hall & far from the soundsource. Now, if Phish was still around I would say NOT to get these mics but since you are seeing "smaller" bands in smaller halls then I think they will work fine for you. I loved the tapes Nick did with the 414's, we comped a few vs. the 480's. The 480's have better detail & that "bright" sound. Another route may be to add a 148 or Mini-me to your rig instead? Carrying around two sets of mic's is cool at first but (for me at least) became overkill after a year or two.

Who knows, get the 414's, you may like them enough to stop using your 480's......................................
but I doubt it 

[F.O.Bean]

may just get some 460 bodies and get JW to mod them, then see which i like better, keep the bodies i like better and be out no $$ on that deal

and if im not satisfied in a year or so, i'll snag the XLS's

im not unhappy by any means, the 4809>v3 rig isd TIGHT IMO, just hankering a change since ive been running the same mics since 99

[Tim]

I'd get 414's before I got another pair of akg bodies...

[F.O.Bean]

I'd get 414's before I got another pair of akg bodies...

i know if i sell the 480's, i'll never have all the caps again tho, i bet id like the 414 sound, just wanna hear more tapes first!

[spyder9]

The ONLY problem with the 414's or any LD mic is when you are in a large hall & far from the soundsource.

The new 414-XLS' have double the sensitivity of the 414-ULS.  The XLS should be no problem in a large hall or far from the source.  I taped with them in the back of the section at Mountain Jam, and they did a very nice job.  But if you are too far from the source, shit, shotguns are the way to go for that.

I just found a stereo matched pair of the 414-XLS on ebay.  $1600, BFN, shipped.  I just posted it in the eBay forum.  1 day left on the auction.  Killer deal.

I am also going to put up a sample of the 414-XLS w/ Busman2's UA5 mod.  I'll put that in the preamp forum.

[Tim]

The ONLY problem with the 414's or any LD mic is when you are in a large hall & far from the soundsource.

The new 414-XLS' have double the sensitivity of the 414-ULS. The XLS should be no problem in a large hall or far from the source. I taped with them in the back of the section at Mountain Jam, and they did a very nice job. But if you are too far from the source, shit, shotguns are the way to go for that.

I just found a stereo matched pair of the 414-XLS on ebay. $1600, BFN, shipped. I just posted it in the eBay forum. 1 day left on the auction. Killer deal.

I am also going to put up a sample of the 414-XLS w/ Busman2's UA5 mod. I'll put that in the preamp forum.

Not to speak for Carl but I think what he was referring to is that LD's suffer when recording from a distance like a TS in an arena because they're just too "slow". There's generally not enough SPL in the back of an arena to really bring out the best of an LD microphone. As a former LD owner (u89s) I can attest to this, I think there generally isn't enough air getting moved in a TS for LD mics... get them up close though and look out!

I prefer LD's up close and SD's from farther back, I think the LD's really lack detail when used from a TS

[spyder9]

The ONLY problem with the 414's or any LD mic is when you are in a large hall & far from the soundsource.

The new 414-XLS' have double the sensitivity of the 414-ULS. The XLS should be no problem in a large hall or far from the source. I taped with them in the back of the section at Mountain Jam, and they did a very nice job. But if you are too far from the source, shit, shotguns are the way to go for that.

I just found a stereo matched pair of the 414-XLS on ebay. $1600, BFN, shipped. I just posted it in the eBay forum. 1 day left on the auction. Killer deal.

I am also going to put up a sample of the 414-XLS w/ Busman2's UA5 mod. I'll put that in the preamp forum.

Not to speak for Carl but I think what he was referring to is that LD's suffer when recording from a distance like a TS in an arena because they're just too "slow". There's generally not enough SPL in the back of an arena to really bring out the best of an LD microphone. As a former LD owner (u89s) I can attest to this, I think there generally isn't enough air getting moved in a TS for LD mics... get them up close though and look out!

I prefer LD's up close and SD's from farther back, I think the LD's really lack detail when used from a TS

The sensitivity on these things are 23.  Your average mic is 11-13.  Shotguns are 35 or higher.  I am going to be taping the Allman Brothers at SPAC from the Lawn in 2 weeks.

Your point, Tim, is well taken.   I guess need to do some more testing on these.

I

[spyder9]

414 XLS sample is here.
 

http://taperssection.com/index.php?board=4.0

[F.O.Bean]

414 XLS sample is here.
 

http://taperssection.com/index.php?board=4.0

im on dialup, could you possibly be down for a small trade so i can hear the new 414's dan

thanks in advance,
Bean

[shaggy]

Bean, I know what you mean with the 'brittle' sound.  I am finding the AKGs with the CK61 caps to be a great improvement from I had been running, those Nak CM300...but something is funny at times with the upper mids...i call it the AKG 'bite'.

[spyder9]

414 XLS sample is here.
 

http://taperssection.com/index.php?board=4.0

im on dialup, could you possibly be down for a small trade so i can hear the new 414's dan

thanks in advance,
Bean

Bean,

Sure let's do a deal later today.   

[spyder9]

I am going to be taping the Allman Brothers at SPAC from the Lawn in 2 weeks.

getting psyched for this show w/ moe.
we will see how they stack up against my mighty MG hypers 

I can't wait too.  ABB Friday night in Canandaigua.  ABB Sunday night in Saratoga.  Pumped!

I might run cards for Saratoga.  I noticed the hypers on the 414s are very tight.  On a windy day, the cymbals sound like they are swirling from being so far back.

As Mills Lane once said, "Let's get it on!"   

[carlbeck]

 
Not to speak for Carl but I think what he was referring to is that LD's suffer when recording from a distance like a TS in an arena because they're just too "slow". There's generally not enough SPL in the back of an arena to really bring out the best of an LD microphone. As a former LD owner (u89s) I can attest to this, I think there generally isn't enough air getting moved in a TS for LD mics... get them up close though and look out!

I prefer LD's up close and SD's from farther back, I think the LD's really lack detail when used from a TS

Yes, Tim that is exactly what I was saying. I was not dogging the 414's at all. I believe ALL LD mic's suffer from this. Up close they are wonderfull though. It really depends on what & where you normally tape.

[spyder9]

Most of the bands I record have a "tape from your seat" policy, so I try to get in front of the SBD.

Who still has a TS section behind the SBD, besides the Phish/Dead family trees?  That would be nice info to have.  It may adjust my thinking.  I may pick up a set of Audio Technica 4073A shotguns (fluff) for those situations (slut).  The Sennheiser 416s or ME66 shotguns are phat from way out too.

[grider]

If you are hankering for something new, go the 414 route...LD sounds is very different over SD sound and if you want the warmth, then you can't go wrong with LD mics

gotta agree here completely Bean, the 414's sound sweet and make excellent recordings in all taping environments from what I have heard, and I believe like the TL's they have multiple mic pattern settings too which is a huge benefit to successful taping regardless of conditions

[Kindguy]

The ONLY problem with the 414's or any LD mic is when you are in a large hall & far from the soundsource. Now, if Phish was still around I would say NOT to get these mics but since you are seeing "smaller" bands in smaller halls then I think they will work fine for you. I loved the tapes Nick did with the 414's, we comped a few vs. the 480's. The 480's have better detail & that "bright" sound. Another route may be to add a 148 or Mini-me to your rig instead? Carrying around two sets of mic's is cool at first but (for me at least) became overkill after a year or two.

Who knows, get the 414's, you may like them enough to stop using your 480's......................................
but I doubt it 

Not to speak for Carl but I think what he was referring to is that LD's suffer when recording from a distance like a TS in an arena because they're just too "slow". There's generally not enough SPL in the back of an arena to really bring out the best of an LD microphone. As a former LD owner (u89s) I can attest to this, I think there generally isn't enough air getting moved in a TS for LD mics... get them up close though and look out!

I prefer LD's up close and SD's from farther back, I think the LD's really lack detail when used from a TS

I agree (although I've never ran the 414's.)

When I had the TL's they were great upfront or in a small place. Put them in the TS & I was real unhappy with the recordings. Keep in mind I also had the 481/3's at the same time. & almost always ran them.

If you would like to run my 148 sometime maybe we can work something out. I felt the same way you did running 48x > warm UA-5. When I picked up the 148 > ad500e it was a whole new ballgame with the 480's.

[keepongoin]

i think we may get to run 414>m148>sbm1 this next weekend...

I wasn't terribly impressed with the 414>V3 tape I made at Newby's last week.  That maybe had to do with the fact that i ran hypers - the low end just wasn't there, and during the show, the bass was shaking my guts.

i had no time to get the 483s and the other V3 before the show... maybe at col. bruce/codtalkers this weekend.

[spreadheadtom]

we can either do the 148> sbm1 or wmod UA5 this weekend (if it gets here). (it's up to Andy--i'll be out of town) i don't care what you guys might say about the wmod "muddying" things up. i think it might be just fine 


 Tommy





is "muddying" even a word?

[keepongoin]

the plan -

instead of dealing with live performance issues, how about i get the V3s, 148, smb-1, w-mod UA5 and all the mics we want to run... then i test them out at home, playing my stereo into every possible combination with the same song. 

this may be the most organized thing we can do... certainly the most controlled environment.

we can get the following

2 sets 480s
2 V3s
1 set neumann 184s
1 set TLs
1 set 414s
m148
sbm-1
w/ mod UA5...

maybe a set of schoeps, a V2, and an AD2K, if we can get ahold of jerrod.

i grabbed the dead 5/25/72 show - it may be perfect to record that UJB > wharf rat with every possible set up... it is sooooo nice.

[sygdwm]

get in touch w/ callery and you can possibly use his eggleston's and schoeps.

[spreadheadtom]

the plan -

instead of dealing with live performance issues, how about i get the V3s, 148, smb-1, w-mod UA5 and all the mics we want to run... then i test them out at home, playing my stereo into every possible combination with the same song. 

this may be the most organized thing we can do... certainly the most controlled environment.

we can get the following

2 sets 480s
2 V3s
1 set neumann 184s
1 set TLs
1 set 414s
m148
sbm-1
w/ mod UA5...

maybe a set of schoeps, a V2, and an AD2K, if we can get ahold of jerrod.

i grabbed the dead 5/25/72 show - it may be perfect to record that UJB > wharf rat with every possible set up... it is sooooo nice.

this sounds like fun....I'll bring my drinking mug  

[keepongoin]

we can do this one night this week or something...

i have never met callery, but using his playback set up would kick the crap out of mine.

[sygdwm]

you guys dont exactly share any common interests music-wise.

[keepongoin]

yeah maybe that is the case- but he was at the oxford yonder show... i saw the Nagra V sitting there... i just have not met him.

also - i am pretty open to lots of different music... i will give anything a try... can't say that i like everything.

[sygdwm]

he makes it to just about every show in oxford for sure.

[keepongoin]

i avoid oxford, mostly... it is too many college kids running wild for me to deal with...

even the SBD tapes from YMSB have tons of chattiness on them. 

[spreadheadtom]

... i just have not met him.

 

remind me next time and I'll introduce him to you.  he's not as big of an asshole as me  

[keepongoin]

... i just have not met him.

 

remind me next time and I'll introduce him to you.  he's not as big of an asshole as me 

that kind of goes without saying 

[jnorman34]

hi bean - i'm late on this thread, but wanted to throw in my 2 pennies.  i love both c480s and 414s, and on many applications really can hardly hear the differences in controlled studio applications.  that said, the multiple patterns of the 414 can come in very handy on occasion.

both those things said, i have to add that IMHO, the difference in sound you are after may more likely be acheived by changing preamps.  from my experience, the V3 is a rather brightish preamp compared to some others i have used.  i have owned and used neumanns, schoeps cmc64s, DPA 4011s and 4006s and 4061s, AT4051s, gefell m300s, AKG C481s, amd a slew of others, and of those, the C481s are as smooth as anything i have ever used.  on the other hand, when i auditioned the 481s through a pair of grace 101s, i was shocked at how bright they sounded.  i then ran them trhough a vintech 1272 (neve clone), and they were VERY warm (almost like a bright ribbon mic).  with a nice neutral preamp (i use a millennia media HV3D), they are about as good as mics can be.  so, i might suggest trying something other than just mics if you are feeling like the 481s are a tad bright for you.  have you tried the sonosax?  or a great river?

[muj]

hi bean - i'm late on this thread, but wanted to throw in my 2 pennies.  i love both c480s and 414s, and on many applications really can hardly hear the differences in controlled studio applications.  that said, the multiple patterns of the 414 can come in very handy on occasion.

both those things said, i have to add that IMHO, the difference in sound you are after may more likely be acheived by changing preamps.  from my experience, the V3 is a rather brightish preamp compared to some others i have used.  i have owned and used neumanns, schoeps cmc64s, DPA 4011s and 4006s and 4061s, AT4051s, gefell m300s, AKG C481s, amd a slew of others, and of those, the C481s are as smooth as anything i have ever used.  on the other hand, when i auditioned the 481s through a pair of grace 101s, i was shocked at how bright they sounded.  i then ran them trhough a vintech 1272 (neve clone), and they were VERY warm (almost like a bright ribbon mic).  with a nice neutral preamp (i use a millennia media HV3D), they are about as good as mics can be.  so, i might suggest trying something other than just mics if you are feeling like the 481s are a tad bright for you.  have you tried the sonosax?  or a great river?

the v3 is slightly more colored than the 101

 imo

[VA_TAPER]

I vote 460s JW and SPA mod'ed. 

peace, chris

[johnw]

have you tried the sonosax?  or a great river?

I think the problem is that Bean records mostly in the field and needs a DC powered stereo preamp and AD. There aren't a lot of those pres around.

Chris,
What does Stephen Paul Audio do to the 460s? Or are you talking about having the cap diaphragms modded?

[F.O.Bean]

well, i have been offered a pair of unmodded 460 bodies for a decent price, if the seller is cool w/ my payments, i'll be getting them modded by the end of summer by JW

im just gonna A/B them against the 480 bodies and see which i prefer

i would get rid of the v3 but for sound/reliability/build quality i am not getting rid of it anytime soon, maybe run an m148/sax in front of it at 'tinny' venues so i can pull a decent tape in shitty clubs/venues

still drooling over the 414's tho