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Author Topic: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6  (Read 113678 times)

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Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6
« Reply #360 on: June 16, 2017, 08:40:42 PM »
I bet you are one happy camper.  The idea that you can buy a SD at this price point would have set off a buying frenzy if SD had beaten the 70d to market. 

And even the black case is classy. 

Not much discussion that I have been able to find, but the ability to start and stop recording via HDMI signals from a gh4 or similar DSLR is really going to please some videomakers. 

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6
« Reply #361 on: June 16, 2017, 11:17:12 PM »
I bet you are one happy camper.  The idea that you can buy a SD at this price point would have set off a buying frenzy if SD had beaten the 70d to market. 

And even the black case is classy. 

Not much discussion that I have been able to find, but the ability to start and stop recording via HDMI signals from a gh4 or similar DSLR is really going to please some videomakers. 

It's much beefier and heavier than a DR-70D and you know when you're holding it in your hand that's it a well built machine and extremely durable & rugged IMO! I'm still shocked that SD released such a small but powerful deck for UNDER $1k! And I'm pretty sure there's already been a good bit of a buying frenzy related to these and the initial shipments!

I already have my 3 main taping scenarios saved as presets so that I can instantly switch between them depending on the taping situation that I'm in! I'm running a battery test right now with the MP6@24/96 with 4 channels of 60v PFA's@48v and the LR Mix all being recorded. Bluetooth ON and headphones plugged in@82! LCD & LED@3! Plugged into a Honeycomb brand USB A battery capable of 3.1 or 3.4 amps total output on both USB A ports, so it powers the MP6 wonderfully with the included Dual USB A>C Cable, even though the USB A>C cable is kinda big and too long! But great that I can use most of my old USB A batteries for my 70D, for the MP6 as well, if I'm in a pinch and need to at a festie or something!

I'll be running the 4xAA Tray & the Anker PowerCore+ & Monoprice USB C Batteries method to power my MixPre-6 8) I was going to get an 8xAA Tray too, but according to my setup and running 4xAA's battery tests [3] times yesterday, I'll be lucky to get 4 hours from the 8xAA tray since I only got 2 hours with the 4xAA Tray! I'm way too OCD to ONLY have 4 hours of power with me EVER, so I would feel better running the USB Battery with the 8xAA Tray anyway, since 4 hours would be too close for me! Does that make sense? So I'm probably saving my 8xAA Tray money and putting it towards something else for the MP6, like one more PowerCore+ or [2] Monoprice USB C Batteries!
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

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Offline dogmusic

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6
« Reply #362 on: June 16, 2017, 11:59:55 PM »
so I would feel better running the USB Battery with the 8xAA Tray anyway, since 4 hours would be too close for me! Does that make sense? So I'm probably saving my 8xAA Tray money and putting it towards something else for the MP6, like one more PowerCore+ or [2] Monoprice USB C Batteries!

Makes sense to me. Those Monoprice batteries are a good deal in the USA if you get them from Monoprice themselves.

« Last Edit: June 17, 2017, 09:50:43 AM by dogmusic »
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Offline Popmarter

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6
« Reply #363 on: June 17, 2017, 06:41:56 AM »
Stepping in, I know one day I want one unit too.

For now, would tapedeck (unbalanced out) to this unit be the way for a proper cassette-transfer? line in on channel 1+2?
Recorders: Zoom F3; SD MixPre 3 II; Sony A10; Edirol R44; Sony M10; Sony WM-D6; iRiver IHP-120; Sharp MD-MT20; Sharp MD-MT190
Microphones: Schoeps MK41; Nevaton MC59/S (cards); Milab VM-44 Links (cards), AT853 7.4mod (cards); AT831 (cards); Nakamichi CM300 (all CP's); Soundman OKM II Rock Studios
Preamps: Beyerdynamic MV100; JK Laboratories DVC-X-17b; Naiant IPA; Nakamichi MX-100 modded for 9v battery use ; Baby Nbox

Online aaronji

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6
« Reply #364 on: June 17, 2017, 07:07:51 AM »
^ musicstore.de has the best price I have seen on this side of the Atlantic!

The idea that you can buy a SD at this price point would have set off a buying frenzy if SD had beaten the 70d to market. 

I don't really see the 70D impeding the sales of these; they are kind of targeting different segments of the market.  There are probably quite a lot of Zoom F4/F8 customers that would have bought the SDs if they had come out first, though.  As for a buying frenzy, I know from a phone call with the aforementioned musicstore.de that they sold three shipments worth before they even received the first...

Offline Popmarter

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6
« Reply #365 on: June 17, 2017, 07:37:41 AM »
when are you expecting yours Aaron? I am considering, dont really need it now but I probably will  :wink2:
Recorders: Zoom F3; SD MixPre 3 II; Sony A10; Edirol R44; Sony M10; Sony WM-D6; iRiver IHP-120; Sharp MD-MT20; Sharp MD-MT190
Microphones: Schoeps MK41; Nevaton MC59/S (cards); Milab VM-44 Links (cards), AT853 7.4mod (cards); AT831 (cards); Nakamichi CM300 (all CP's); Soundman OKM II Rock Studios
Preamps: Beyerdynamic MV100; JK Laboratories DVC-X-17b; Naiant IPA; Nakamichi MX-100 modded for 9v battery use ; Baby Nbox

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6
« Reply #366 on: June 17, 2017, 08:01:57 AM »
I'm getting about 6 hours running 4 channels of 60v PFAs@48v + LR Mix, so 6 channels total, running a 10,000mah USB A battery with the included Dual USB A>C Cable! So around 2A or so average for the Mixpre6! I'll let yinz know once I get my Anker Powercore+ USB C battery and test it to see how long it'll run! I should have it today or Monday at the latest! But even with the USB A batteries that I already have, paired with the 4xAA Tray, I easily have enough power to record any non-festie related shows, so I really don't have any want or need to run anything but the 4xAA + USB Battery combo at this point in time!

I'm still shocked that I called Full Compass early Tuesday morning and they had 1-2 in stock, so I ordered one immediately
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

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Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6
« Reply #367 on: June 17, 2017, 09:12:52 AM »
^ musicstore.de has the best price I have seen on this side of the Atlantic!

The idea that you can buy a SD at this price point would have set off a buying frenzy if SD had beaten the 70d to market. 

I don't really see the 70D impeding the sales of these; they are kind of targeting different segments of the market.  There are probably quite a lot of Zoom F4/F8 customers that would have bought the SDs if they had come out first, though.  As for a buying frenzy, I know from a phone call with the aforementioned musicstore.de that they sold three shipments worth before they even received the first...

At this stage, I agree.  But if these new mixpres had been available when the 70d first came out, I suspect many here would have saved up the extra bucks to get the SD.   Given the posting so far, it looks like some folks here are thrilled to get these new recorders. 

Offline rigpimp

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6
« Reply #368 on: June 17, 2017, 11:36:26 AM »
I'm still shocked that I called Full Compass early Tuesday morning and they had 1-2 in stock, so I ordered one immediately

That stock was not from their first allotment, that was round #2.
Mics: Schoeps MK 5 MP, Schoeps MK 8 MP, Schoeps MK 41 MP, KCY 250/5 > PFA
Pre/A>D/P48: Sonosax SX/M2, Sonosax SX/M2-LS, E.A.A. PSP-2, Baby Nbox, Neumann BS48i-2 (for sale)
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Offline celticrogues

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6
« Reply #369 on: June 17, 2017, 12:53:16 PM »
I will say, based on the posts, there seem to be a lot of people who want the main channel knobs to control gain (pre-fade gain).  As noted, this can be done using Basic mode or by using Custom mode with gain set to basic.

Just to clarify - My understanding is that there is not currently a way to get the channel knobs to control pre-fader gain.

In Advanced mode, the MP6 has two user-adjustable gain stages. The first stage is a trim pot (called gain on the MixPres). This is an analog gain stage and controls the analog level of the microphone preamp itself. It is adjusted by turning the headphone controller in the channel menu. The second stage is the fader, which is a digital gain stage. It is adjusted by turning the channel fader knob.

This sets up what is traditionally SOP (standard operating procedure) on many film and television shoots (which is of course a large part of Sound Devices' background). There, you often want to set your analog trim to a good but conservative level and focus on the mix using the faders. That way a mixer has total control of the mix, but the ISO's also serve as a safety in case something gets suddenly loud and clips. The sound mixer's fader mix is usually used for picture editing, screenings, and the like, and the program is eventually re-mixed in post production using the ISO's. In post it is no problem to have the ISO's to be a little low in level, as they can be turned up digitally without adding any noise - digital gain will not add noise when done properly. So in Advanced mode, you have your ISO's pre-fader and controlled only by the analog trim, and your mix track post fader and controlled by both the analog trim and the digital gain of the fader.

When you change Gain to Basic (usually in Custom mode), two things happen. First, that analog trim is disabled from being user-adjustable. It is fixed at +6db (the lowest setting) and is greyed out and cannot be changed in the current firmware. Second, basic gain mode switches the ISO channels from pre-fader to post-fader. That way both the ISO's and the mix (if active) are controlled by only the digital fader gain stage. This is a bit different from having the channel faders control the pre-fader analog gain.

In theory it is no problem to not have access to analog gain with a device as good as the MixPre's are. As I mentioned before, digital gain should add no noise to a signal, so if you have a preamp which is quiet enough that the self-noise of the preamp does not overpower even the quietest signal then you have little to lose by simply recording with the preamp gain down and raising the volume digitally in post. This has the advantage as well of preventing even surprisingly loud signals from overloading the A/D converters and causing clipping. Sound Devices' new Kashmir preamps seems purpose-built for this kind of recording; they are certainly quiet enough and have a wide enough bandwidth to be able to do this. This seems to be what Sound Devices is recommending in a lot of their marketing literature as well.

In practical use though, there are a couple of disadvantages to this way of working, mostly in terms of monitoring. First of all, if you monitor anything pre-fader while in Gain-Basic mode, it will be very hard to hear. Remember that pre-fader monitoring only responds to that first, analog trim stage which in this mode is fixed at +6 db. So if your sources need more gain than this they will seem soft in your monitoring. This makes recording low level sources, like nature ambience for example, quite difficult in gain-basic mode. For some sources, the digital gain available on the MixPre alone isn't really enough to get the sound to a clearly audible level. Again this isn't really an issue with recording quality as the file can always be given more digital gain after it is recorded, but that is an extra step and makes monitoring in the field quite difficult. In these situations you end up cranking up the headphone amp on the MixPre as high as it will go just to hear the signal. This is also not ideal though because the headphone amp is an analog gain stage and will induce noise on what you're hearing. Although this noise won't affect the recording, it could definitely trick you into thinking your recording is noisier than it actually is.

That's why the request to have an option for the channel fader knobs to control the analog preamp trim is still a popular request. There are great threads about the MixPre both on the JWSound Group and on Gearslutz with a lot of great info. I post as "mobilemike" on jwsoundgroup.net and as "celticrogues" on Gearslutz.

Hope this helps a bit.
-Mike
Michael Fowler
www.mobilemikesny.com

Offline vwmule

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6
« Reply #370 on: June 17, 2017, 03:44:19 PM »
Ran MP6 for first time last night (Marshall Crenshaw y Los Straightjackets) and looking at the file I think it made a mono recording. The waveforms for both channels are identical. Any idea what I did wrong?
Also, what should the "pan" be set to for each channel? Looking now I see it was set to center.

I should add that there was only one file on the SD card.

Still would appreciate if an experienced user can make a cheat sheet.


Thanks.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2017, 03:56:03 PM by vwmule »

Offline ts

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6
« Reply #371 on: June 17, 2017, 03:44:39 PM »
Hey mitchellm....  I know it's been discussed, but can you tell me if the MixPre-3 can record two XLR inputs and 3.5mm (mini-stereo) input at the same time... for a total of 4 tracks??
And...  where is the power switch/button?
You seem to be the first person around here with a MP3 in your hands... 
Thanks.

I asked support the same question- here is their reply.

"Hello Jesse,

Thank you for contacting Sound Devices.  The MixPre-3 can record 3 separate sources on different tracks.  These tracks can be mixed down to the Left and Right track (the other 2 recorded tracks out of 5).  It sounds like you need a MixPre-6 if you need 4 isolated tracks, as the MixPre-3 can only do 3 isolated tracks max, plus the Left and Right tracks...

Best regards,
Danny Greenwald
danny_greenwald@sounddevices.com"

Sorry for bringing this up again, but still curious about this. The MP3 can record 5 tracks? The website and manual both state that the 3.5 in. input can do 2 channel. So why can't a stereo SBD feed be routed thru the 3.5. Because there is no where to assign it? It gets knocked down to mono. Can this fixed with a firmware update? I would just like to do 2 mics and a SBD signal and matrix in post.

Offline Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6
« Reply #372 on: June 17, 2017, 04:42:17 PM »
Ran MP6 for first time last night (Marshall Crenshaw y Los Straightjackets) and looking at the file I think it made a mono recording. The waveforms for both channels are identical. Any idea what I did wrong?
Also, what should the "pan" be set to for each channel? Looking now I see it was set to center.

I should add that there was only one file on the SD card.

Still would appreciate if an experienced user can make a cheat sheet.


Thanks.

I'm not an expert. Only recorded 1 show so far, but I would pan CH1 to L and CH2 to R (and CH3 to L/CH 4 to R). That is what I did and I had a stereo recording (ran 2 mics + stereo SBD).

I'm wagering you recorded your left and right mic to the CH1 and CH2 equally.
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Offline celticrogues

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6
« Reply #373 on: June 17, 2017, 05:03:05 PM »
Hey mitchellm....  I know it's been discussed, but can you tell me if the MixPre-3 can record two XLR inputs and 3.5mm (mini-stereo) input at the same time... for a total of 4 tracks??
And...  where is the power switch/button?
You seem to be the first person around here with a MP3 in your hands... 
Thanks.

I asked support the same question- here is their reply.

"Hello Jesse,

Thank you for contacting Sound Devices.  The MixPre-3 can record 3 separate sources on different tracks.  These tracks can be mixed down to the Left and Right track (the other 2 recorded tracks out of 5).  It sounds like you need a MixPre-6 if you need 4 isolated tracks, as the MixPre-3 can only do 3 isolated tracks max, plus the Left and Right tracks...

Best regards,
Danny Greenwald
danny_greenwald@sounddevices.com"

Sorry for bringing this up again, but still curious about this. The MP3 can record 5 tracks? The website and manual both state that the 3.5 in. input can do 2 channel. So why can't a stereo SBD feed be routed thru the 3.5. Because there is no where to assign it? It gets knocked down to mono. Can this fixed with a firmware update? I would just like to do 2 mics and a SBD signal and matrix in post.

The MixPre3 cannot record the aux input directly like the MP6 can. You are limited to only 3 channels on the MP3. To record the signal from the aux input you need to assign that signal to one of the MixPre 3's three channels (attached to the big faders). The aux input is a stereo (2 channel) input so to record both sides of that you would need to assign each side separately to a fader channel. So for example you could assign Aux in 1 as the source for channel 1 and Aux in 2 as the source for channel 2.

You can't record 2 mics and a stereo aux input on the MP3 as you only have 3 channels to work with.

With that said, a lot of live shows are mixed in mono however, so you can often get away with recording only one side of the board feed and not lose anything.

-Mike
Michael Fowler
www.mobilemikesny.com

Offline vwmule

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6
« Reply #374 on: June 17, 2017, 05:12:16 PM »
> I'm wagering you recorded your left and right mic to the CH1 and CH2 equally

I think you're right.

I got the Wave Agent app and split the file on the card but both channels are identical -- as was the original file I opened using Sound Studio, which apparently can handle poly files.
The recording sounds nice but wish I had the full effect.

 

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