Topic: Mics for beginner?

[Aladar]

Hi, I was wondering, what mics would you reccomend to a beginning taper?
They should be small-ish (well, at least "normal" size), and not cost more than $100 batt box included.. the less, the better..
Thanks!

[su6oxone]

Hi, I was wondering, what mics would you reccomend to a beginning taper?
They should be small-ish (well, at least "normal" size), and not cost more than $100 batt box included.. the less, the better..
Thanks!

Check out some of the starter mics at Sound Pro (www.soundprofessionals.com) like the SP BMC-2.  I've heard some nice recordings made with those mics.  You can get a small battery box from them too. 

[Aladar]

Hi, I was wondering, what mics would you reccomend to a beginning taper?
They should be small-ish (well, at least "normal" size), and not cost more than $100 batt box included.. the less, the better..
Thanks!

Check out some of the starter mics at Sound Pro (www.soundprofessionals.com) like the SP BMC-2.  I've heard some nice recordings made with those mics.  You can get a small battery box from them too.

Thanks, I'll look into it.
Few questions, tho..
-What's the bass roll-off? Is it needed, or can I go with cheaper batt boxes that don't have it?
-Should I look into binaurals or cardioids?

Edit: What about Low Cost Binaurals from Core Sound? How do they compare with SP-BMC-2?

[stevetoney]

Hi, I was wondering, what mics would you reccomend to a beginning taper?
They should be small-ish (well, at least "normal" size), and not cost more than $100 batt box included.. the less, the better..
Thanks!

Buy something used in the Yard Sale. 

Since price is a paramount concern for you, you're gonna get a better mic in the used market than you'd get new and at that price point you can range from not-good sound to pretty good sound with a mic that, when new, would have cost incrementally $50 to $100 more.

To answer your specific question though, look for used Church Audio CA-11 coupled with a low cost battery box.  That should run you right around $100 for both.

[Aladar]

Hi, I was wondering, what mics would you reccomend to a beginning taper?
They should be small-ish (well, at least "normal" size), and not cost more than $100 batt box included.. the less, the better..
Thanks!

Buy something used in the Yard Sale. 

Since price is a paramount concern for you, you're gonna get a better mic in the used market than you'd get new and at that price point you can range from not-good sound to pretty good sound with a mic that, when new, would have cost incrementally $50 to $100 more.

To answer your specific question though, look for used Church Audio CA-11 coupled with a low cost battery box.  That should run you right around $100 for both.

I was actually looking for CA-11s, but noone is selling them.. And any other acceptable mics in Yard Sale are only low cost binaurals and the soundpro ones, both without battery box..

[illconditioned]

Hi, I was wondering, what mics would you reccomend to a beginning taper?
They should be small-ish (well, at least "normal" size), and not cost more than $100 batt box included.. the less, the better..
Thanks!

Buy something used in the Yard Sale. 

Since price is a paramount concern for you, you're gonna get a better mic in the used market than you'd get new and at that price point you can range from not-good sound to pretty good sound with a mic that, when new, would have cost incrementally $50 to $100 more.

To answer your specific question though, look for used Church Audio CA-11 coupled with a low cost battery box.  That should run you right around $100 for both.

I was actually looking for CA-11s, but noone is selling them.. And any other acceptable mics in Yard Sale are only low cost binaurals and the soundpro ones, both without battery box..

I highly recommend the CA-11.  These are great sounding mics, and, unlike most of the Soundpros, they will not overload at high volume.

Put an ISO in the Yardsale.  If that doesn't work, buy new from Chris Church.  Maybe he can cut you a deal on a set if you're hard up for cash.

What is your recorder?

  Richard

[stevetoney]

Hi, I was wondering, what mics would you reccomend to a beginning taper?
They should be small-ish (well, at least "normal" size), and not cost more than $100 batt box included.. the less, the better..
Thanks!

Check out some of the starter mics at Sound Pro (www.soundprofessionals.com) like the SP BMC-2.  I've heard some nice recordings made with those mics.  You can get a small battery box from them too.

Thanks, I'll look into it.
Few questions, tho..
-What's the bass roll-off? Is it needed, or can I go with cheaper batt boxes that don't have it?
-Should I look into binaurals or cardioids?

Edit: What about Low Cost Binaurals from Core Sound? How do they compare with SP-BMC-2?

Sometimes mics can be boomy and the bass roll-off electronically reduces the lowest bass frequencies by some number of decibels.  It can be a handy option, but lots of tapers don't like using roll-off, opting to use their software to do the same thing.  The concept is that if you remove it before it goes on tape, you can't get it back.  If it's there to start, you can always back off.

Regarding your qeustions on specific mics, you'd best go to www.archive.org and do a search on the specific model you're inquiring about, listen and reach your own conclusions if that sound will satisfy your needs.

From the experience of almost everyone on TS.com, you'll find that the entry level mics don't satisfy you and within a short time, you'll figure out a way to free up funds to buy something more!  LOL.  (We've all been where you are now, my friend.)

[Giant_Rick]

Thanks, I'll look into it.
Few questions, tho..
-What's the bass roll-off? Is it needed, or can I go with cheaper batt boxes that don't have it?
-Should I look into binaurals or cardioids?

As far as I know..

Bass roll-off starts cutting some frequencies; you set the limit (for example 100 Hz) and the amount of 'cutting' (examples: 6 dB). Then it double the 'cutting' (in dB) every octave, so you cut 12 dB at 50 Hz and 24 dB at 25 Hz.
A lot of people warn that it's best to cut the frequencies after taping, because if you cut too much, you can 'recover' the lost data; you just need some experience with some PC programmes.

As you're a beginner you should look into binaurals; I'm a beginner too, and with bin. as they are easier to use.
And they are cheaper than cardioid, generally speaking.

If you can solder you should buy some Panasonic WM61-A capsules (digikey and radioshack may sell those) and solder to a earphone cable.. this way you do a nice work with a few money.
There are some tutorials on the net.

[stevetoney]

Put an ISO in the Yardsale.  If that doesn't work, buy new from Chris Church.  Maybe he can cut you a deal on a set if you're hard up for cash.

I second this suggestion.

[Aladar]

Thanks, but new ones are really out of the question - they are going for like.. 120$(?) new, plus at least $20 shipping, and $39 battery box.. which is way out of my budget.. And with this being Chris' job, I would feel bad to ask him for price reduction. Same with the ISO idea, I would feel like an ass for replying people with "sorry, but that's too much"..

As for the upgrade.. yeah, I expect I will upgrade to better mics sooner or later, but I'm going to shows like once per two months, so it's not really worth it now..

I'll be recording on iRiver HP120, by the way. And no, sadly, I can't solder.

[stevetoney]

FWIW, I think that 'binaural' and 'cardioid' are apples and oranges technical terms, although I suppose that's the model description on the soundpros website.  I'm thinking that a binaural is a low cost omni-directional microphone that's placed on either side of your head.  In other words, all microphones have directional patterns and one of those patterns is not 'binaural'.  On the other hand, cardioid is a directional pattern for a microphone.  So, in one case the term 'binaural' refers to a method for hanging the mics (on each of your ears) and in the other case, the term refers to the directional pattern of the mic

This is probably confusing to you since you're a just starting out and frankly is not all that relevant to the purchase of your first set of mics.  LOL.

[illconditioned]

Thanks, but new ones are really out of the question - they are going for like.. 120$(?) new, plus at least $20 shipping, and $39 battery box.. which is way out of my budget.. And with this being Chris' job, I would feel bad to ask him for price reduction. Same with the ISO idea, I would feel like an ass for replying people with "sorry, but that's too much"..

As for the upgrade.. yeah, I expect I will upgrade to better mics sooner or later, but I'm going to shows like once per two months, so it's not really worth it now..

I'll be recording on iRiver HP120, by the way. And no, sadly, I can't solder.

If you don't ask, you won't know.  Prices in the YS are usually pretty good.

That said, if you can't afford something like $100 for mics, you won't be happy with the results.  Put it in perspective, it is easy to spend that money on other stuff, right?  Anyway, good luck with your project...

  Richard

[stevetoney]

Do the ISO, man.  Look in the YS now...there's no less than what...20 ISO's on the first two pages alone?  What do you have to lose?  NOBODY and I mean NOBODY will consider you an ass. 

All you do is say...'ISO CA-11 and battery box, max I can pay is $100'.  Anyone that responds knows your terms.  FWIW, I've seen plenty of CA-11 with power for less than $100 on the YS.  If you don't believe me, just do a search and prove it to yourself!

[Aladar]

OK, thanks, I'll try.

[darktrain]

Thanks, but new ones are really out of the question - they are going for like.. 120$(?) new, plus at least $20 shipping, and $39 battery box.. which is way out of my budget.. And with this being Chris' job, I would feel bad to ask him for price reduction. Same with the ISO idea, I would feel like an ass for replying people with "sorry, but that's too much"..

As for the upgrade.. yeah, I expect I will upgrade to better mics sooner or later, but I'm going to shows like once per two months, so it's not really worth it now..

I'll be recording on iRiver HP120, by the way. And no, sadly, I can't solder.

And if a 50.00 bucks is a deal breaker i would highly consider saving up and if money is that tight how will you go to shows? You will only be disapointed if you go the cheap route, put out a ISO and see what happens.

[rhinowing]

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-BMC-2
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-SPSB-10

can be had for $110 or so new

[travelinbeat]

Make like a Sunday morning and go to Church.

(Church Audio)

[rastasean]

its been asked already but you didn't answer (at least when I read). 

What recorder are you using?

[stevetoney]

^ Rasta...he's using an iriver.

Ya know, I was paging through the yard sale yesterday and there are a number of pairs of mics in the YS that decent entry level mics.  I think I saw some core sound binaurals for like $35.  These were my first mics ever and I thought they made some nice recordings.  They won't sound as good as CA-11's but they will get the job done.  You do need a battery box though otherwise they'll distort on you.  I think I saw a Sound Pro's pair for around the same price.  Same thing there.

[canbelto]

These are really cheap and I have heard only the SP-TFB-2, which to me sounded pretty good:

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-SPSM-15
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-TFB-2

I use the Church cards in a croakie mount and for my venue, opera, they sound very, very good.  The TFB-2 may work for you eith a cheap battery box and they are stealthy if you need them to be.

[Aladar]

Thanks, I'll wait a little bit and then post the ISO on the CA-11s, and wait what will I get..

rastasean, I wrote it here somewhere, iriver h120.

As with the croakie mount.. I don't think that's optimal for me, I'm not the kind of person who could stand still the whole show, without turning his head around.

[Giant_Rick]

As with the croakie mount.. I don't think that's optimal for me, I'm not the kind of person who could stand still the whole show, without turning his head around.

If you get some cardioid mikes then you have to stay still as long as you can because the sound change if you put the mikes on a hat and you move your head, for example.
Take this into account

[Aladar]

As with the croakie mount.. I don't think that's optimal for me, I'm not the kind of person who could stand still the whole show, without turning his head around.

If you get some cardioid mikes then you have to stay still as long as you can because the sound change if you put the mikes on a hat and you move your head, for example.
Take this into account

I'll probably have them clipped on my shirt.

[stevetoney]

I recommend hat mounting unless you're really up front near the PA speakers.  Some have said that the 12 inches or so vertical distance doesn't matter that much, but it can make a difference depending on where you are in the venue.  If there's anyone standing in front of you and their head is between your mics and the sound source, it will affect the sound...which will be a little more muffled than if you get direct sound from the source.  Girls are shorter than you and that means if anyone talks to you, they're speaking directly into your mics.  If they're on your head, they're a little bit farther from the talking, which can make a big difference due to the masking effect (during loud shows anyway).

When I recorded from my hat, if I needed to turn my head or sneeze or cough, I just pulled my hat up off my head and did whatever needed to be done.  Just leave a little bit of slack in you cables.  People are constantly adjusting their hat on their head, so it doesn't look strange at all.

My 2 cents worth.

[Belexes]

Females know to STFU with me when they are at a show with me. Subsequently, not a lot of females go to shows with me if I am running my lo-pro rig. If I run my open rig, they want to put their damn purses under my mic stand like it is some kind of storage depot.

I bring cough drops to help with any noise I could make and hold my sneezes in.

[stevetoney]

Females know to STFU with me when they are at a show with me. Subsequently, not a lot of females go to shows with me if I am running my lo-pro rig. If I run my open rig, they want to put their damn purses under my mic stand like it is some kind of storage depot.

I bring cough drops to help with any noise I could make and hold my sneezes in.

LOL.  I'll NEVAH bitch about girls storing things near my mic stand ever again b/c during the second Bonnaroo Phish show three girls asked me if they could keep their clothes by my stand so they could dance naked.  Oddly enough, they were damn good looking taboot!

[Belexes]

^See with me they ditch them under the stand and then leave because I have a no chat rule under the stand.  I can't win.  If they hung out and were just dancing nekkid....yah, I think I would be cool with that, LOL.

[stevetoney]

^See with me they ditch them under the stand and then leave because I have a no chat rule under the stand.  I can't win.  If they hung out and were just dancing nekkid....yah, I think I would be cool with that, LOL.

Maybe a sign would help. 

Girls; store your clothing below!

[Belexes]

^ Only if it's clothing they are taking off.  Anyway, we can continue this in the Sewer.

[Giant_Rick]

Just leave a little bit of slack in you cables.  People are constantly adjusting their hat on their head, so it doesn't look strange at all.

My 2 cents worth.

A nice advice would be not to touch/adjust the mikes (unless it's really necessary) during the show, as it gets some pops and clips on the recording..

LOL.  I'll NEVAH bitch about girls storing things near my mic stand ever again b/c during the second Bonnaroo Phish show three girls asked me if they could keep their clothes by my stand so they could dance naked.  Oddly enough, they were damn good looking taboot!

Will stick to open taping with standings right now