Topic: New Guy, Some Broad Sweeping Questions...

[mtandy89]

Hello! Well, I'm the new guy. Both to the board, and to taping. I'm 24, I'm in Mass, and I want to learn to tape! I'm not looking for something crazy like some of y'all have, just a nice light rig for local shows, and a few big shows per year (Primus, Phish, DSO, Mule...) but I frankly know nothing about taping. I've been trying to read up for a while now, but there's been no good beginner resource that i've found that's up to date.

So, I guess the best way to approach this is to present the rig I had in mind from my scattered research, and have y'all tell me why I totally screwed it up! 

I was hoping to spend under $300 to get rocking....

Core-Sound LCSC>Mini-XLR Cable>Behringer Tube Ultragain MIC200>XLR-Mini Cable>Tascam DR-05

Ok, please teach me!

[bryonsos]

Some good stuff here:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=169492.msg2105475#new

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

That is a nice starter rig. With the recorder it will be a bit over $300 though, but WAY better than those Core Sounds.

Toss a $79 recorder behind that an you're in good shape.

As far as learning is concerned, I'd try to bring your new rig to "(Primus, Phish, DSO, Mule...)" ...ie a show where there will be many other tapers and learn from them.

[mtandy89]

Next show I have is Primus at the end of October, but i'm not sure I can scratch up the cash to get this rolling by then. The hardest part, I think, is going to be piecing this together over time.

I'm also trying to stick with stealthy mics, as most shows i've been to around here have been specifically "no taping" environments...

[vanark]

Not sure if the venues are no taping or the artists are... hard to tell from your statement.  I'd say most venues in the New England region are familiar with tapers and if the artist is okay with it, they will be too.  But, if the artists you want to tape require a low profile setup, I understand.  I just wanted you to know that there are plenty of venues that are very much okay with taping in Mass. and the surrounding areas.  And a fair number of tapers.

[mtandy89]

My guess is that it's more the artist than the venue. I was wondering, actually, how hard it is to get gear in

[Phil Zone]

There are a god amount of mics that would put you in that bal park. I started with Samson cl2 and Luke them a lot and u used a art USB dual press as my preamp and a dr05 as a recorder and it sounded pretty great. The preamp had a great battery life and was very versatile I'd just consider all that stuff. We ate all here to help out, ask any questions you have.

[chinariderstl]

Well welcome to the boards, and to the community as a whole.  I'll add my two cents, for what it's worth.

First and foremost; read, read, read.  Read the boards, you will learn a lot that way.  Take what you've read and starting Googling around.  You will pick up a lot of information that way.  Secondly, head to the Live Music Archive at archive.org and listen to a bunch of shows using different rigs.  You will start to quickly find what sound you like, what mics, etc.

When it comes to mics, if you are looking for small plug-in-power mics, like the Core Sounds, I would pass on those and lean towards either a pair of Audio-Technica AT853's or a pair of Naiant X-X's.  darktrain (Robb) does a lot of work with Audio-Technica AT853's and you will find them in the Yard Sale regularly for pretty cheap.  You can also score a new pair of Naiant X-X's for the same price from Jon at Naiant Studios.

If you want phantom-powered mics, like AKG's, Audix, Audio-Technica, Busman, etc., you'll likely find good deals on good equipment in the Yard Sale.  There may even be a pair of Busman BSC1's in the Yard Sale now.  You cannot beat those for a nice pair of first mics.  Something along those lines would require either a mic-preamp (like a Naiant Tinybox, Edirol UA5, Denecke PS-2, etc.) and a deck (like the Tascam you mentioned, the Sony PCM-M10, or a Tascam DR-2D) or a deck with built-in phantom power support (Tascam DR-100mkII).

You can even find single, point-and-shoot microphones out there, for example, the Shure VP88 and the Audio-Technica AT822 and Audio-Technica AT8022.

The options are endless.  I would suggest you monitor the Yard Sale for a while before making any decisions.  You'll find this is a great community and a lot of tapers like to keep the gear in the community.  You will, no doubt, find excellent gear at fair prices in the YS.

Hopefully that helps some.

[nulldogmas]

As a former Core Sound LCSC user, I'd vote against them as well. They're small and clear, but really tinny to my ear compared to other cardioids.

And YMMV, but in my experience getting gear in at the vast majority of venues is way less of an issue than you'd think. I spent my first few taping years stressed out that some beefy security guy would pin me up against a wall and say, "What's this? A PAIR OF MINIATURE CARDIOID MICROPHONES?!?" But the reality is that, with few exceptions, the beefy security guys mostly don't care, and wouldn't recognize recording gear even if you waved it in their face regardless.

(Also, this is another good reason to start working up your nerve early to email artists for permission — not just because it's The Right Thing To Do, but because it significantly reduces the stress level, even if you're still using the same stealthy gear.)

[bombdiggity]

If budget is the driving factor I'd get a low cost (but solid) recorder (one with decent built in mics may be a plus at a real entry level) that supplies plug-in power for mini mics.  Also get a pair of decent mini mics.  Based on your intended use that would get you started, probably well under budget and if you pick the mics carefully might keep you happy a long time. 

I like the Sound Professionals cards for a low cost option.  Their best (CMC-25s) would likely consume your budget but you'd probably never need anything else if you're not planning to spend a ton and go big (full size mics, preamps/phantom power, stand, etc., etc.).  Those are a really good match for loud rock shows but IMO do really well on almost anything.  Their CMC-8's or CMC-2's with their basic battery box are versatile and less.  Other good ones also suggested above.  The Yard Sale here may help you punch well above the weight of your wallet as well. 

Your budget usually goes up (and the lo-profile factor obviously goes down) if you move into full size mics that need phantom power or preamps.  They can be less forgiving while learning as well.  If the lo-profile options with those lead to active cables you can forget that budget. 

Since you seem to have a fair number of big loud shows in the mix I'd lean toward cards (though I do anyway).  Mini mics can help keep the bass and room reverb under control from suboptimal positions in those settings. 

Also as mentioned if you go to open taping shows spend some time at the taping section finding out more about what people are doing and using.  Though it doesn't happen much anymore you can even take the patching route when available. 

[mtandy89]

Man, you guys rock, thanks for all the advice!

[cottle]

Just chiming in to say welcome.  You've come to the right place.  I'm a noob too, doing this on/off for the last few years.  There is a wealth of information in the threads on this board.  Any piece of gear, any technique, any venue/band you can think of, probably all have a thread devoted to them.  Just gotta poke around.

I'm in agreement with those above that some AT853's from the yard sale would suit you right, both in price and in application.  They're tiny enough to stealth with, but they don't compromise in sound.  There have been several pairs in the yard lately for less than $150. 

Again, welcome to the board.

[George]

FWIW, I started off with a pair of AT853 cards, a sound professionals battery box and a recorder.  The AT853's are still used to this day, they are robust and sound really nice for the price.  I highly recommend them as your starter microphones.  They are certainly easy to  with, just make sure you purchase a pair of clips to go with them.  As for your battery box/preamp...go with a preamp for the adjustable gain.  Just find something that sounds good...you may need to stretch your budget a bit, but it'll be worth it for the long haul.  With the options we have at our fingertips, it just makes sense to pick up like the tinybox and call it a day.  As the recorder, that's your call.

[eman]

I have 853 cards and hypers, and have found that the hypers blow away the cards in every way. Not sure why, and it isn't just the pattern- the cards are dull and lifeless in comparison.

[thunderbolt]

Another vote for the AT853. 

Don't be fooled by their low price.  They are capable of making some seriously good recordings and are very flexible in their application with the different available caps.  While a preamp is useful, getting the 4.7k (Church Audio) mod is essential if you'll be recording loud shows.  A 9V battery box in lieu of a preamp will work just fine in the beginning.