Topic: Microphone configurations for LD mics.

[Jason B]

I know there has been a lot of poeple questioning how to setup different stereo microphone configurations, so I figured I would put together a page to point people to, in order to help them with their setups. So far, there are only large diaphragm pictures up, but I know this is what a lot of poeple have been having trouble with lately. I'll get some small diaphragm configuration pictures, as well as many other LD pics up there soon.

Maybe we could sticky this thread or link here, or in the microphone or archival forums?

-JB

Dead Link <<<http://homepage.mac.com/gottajiboo40/Menu10.html>>> Dead Link


Moke steps in for an edit:

I had a suspicion that these pictures might disappear. So I made copies one day, in anticipation


Healy From Above

Healy side view

DIN 20cm 90º front

DIN 20cm 90º above

MS 90º front view

MS 90º side view

ORTF 110º 17cm above

ORTF 110º 17cm

Horizontal XY 90º above

Horizontal XY 90º front

Vertical XY 90º front

Vertical XY 90º front

Vertical XY 90º front

The ts.com reference folder link:
http://www.taperssection.com/reference/images/JasonB%20LD%20Mic%20Configs/

[BCostigan]

Very nice Jason...+T!    If you run out of bandwidth hosting lemme know and I'll host them for ya.

[Jason B]

Yes, I will be adding some SD pics as soon as I can take them. I'm getting ready to add LD's in ORTF and Healy omni's now...

[Swampy]

Cool man, I have to do a basic little site for my Graphic Tech class. I think I might do a page for newbs, cause the archive can sometimes be a little hard to sort through!

[pnobles]

great page!   i took some pics of sd configurations with neumann 184s that i posted on here.  let me see if i can dig them up...

[pnobles]

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=20;action=display;threadid=12241;start=msg149732#msg149732

here are some SD configuration pictures.

[twoodruff]

thanks jason, in the DIN mic spacing, the 20 cm looks shorter than the 17cm used in ORTF, is that just the pics? Actually if the *arms* of the AKG bar are pushed closer together then that has to be less than 17cm, correct?

[keepongoin]

now, when would you use these different configuations (I just bought a matched pair of ADK-TLs).

[Brian]

*** edited because it was one of my dumbest posts ever. good thing Twoodruff has it quoted though for your enjoyment ***
 
+T jason and pnobles for the nice config pics



Brian

[Brian]

now, when would you use these different configuations (I just bought a matched pair of ADK-TLs).

so many different variables here. it depends upon these factors. anybody else please feel free to chime in on any i missed:

-how the PA(if any) is set up and sounds
-where you want/can set up in relation to the PA/stage. If you can find that sweet spot and can set up there, DO IT! depending where that is, set up a config that will yeild you the best possible soundstage and overall music response.
-basically how the room sounds in general
-if taping on stage the way the musicians are set up will ultimately determine the config to use IMHO.

there's lots of info about different configs on this board that will give you more help than this one lame post. do a site search for a config you want to learn about. lots of info on *omni's* and *DIN vs. ORTF* here especially.

Brian

[twoodruff]

thanks jason, in the DIN mic spacing, the 20 cm looks shorter than the 17cm used in ORTF, is that just the pics? Actually if the *arms* of the AKG bar are pushed closer together then that has to be less than 17cm, correct?

the way i see it i think the ortf overhead picture was zoomed out a little more than the DIN overhead picture thus making you think that the ortf config had shorter spacing

+T jason and pnobles for the nice config pics



Brian

ORTF does have shorter spacing, 17 cm as opposed to 20 for DIN. What I am saying is looking at the pics and the fact that the AKG bar's arms are brought closer in together on the DIN, I dont think that is 20cm of spacing.

[Brian]

ORTF does have shorter spacing, 17 cm as opposed to 20 for DIN. What I am saying is looking at the pics and the fact that the AKG bar's arms are brought closer in together on the DIN, I dont think that is 20cm of spacing.

DOH! I knew that   i should remember to not post to TS.com before noon i looked at the pictures and read your post wrong.

Hi my name is Brian Sax and today i'm a dumbass

[plucks]

do remember Keepongoing, that these stereo techniques are intended for more studio/pro recordings than our field recordings.
The best thing to do is use these as a base and if you feel like trying a different variation, do it!  Certain gear sounds better when changing the angle slightly or spacing between caps.  

Nice pics Jason!

[Electric Cowgirl]

+T  thanks for the effort!!

[keepongoin]

do remember Keepongoing, that these stereo techniques are intended for more studio/pro recordings than our field recordings.
The best thing to do is use these as a base and if you feel like trying a different variation, do it!  Certain gear sounds better when changing the angle slightly or spacing between caps.  

Thanks, to both you and S_TL-Taper; I appreciate the help.  I will be using the mics in the field and in my home studio, so threads like these are very helpful.  I think I am going to modify one of those shure vert. bars and carry a t-bar as well.  

[Brian]

no problem +t bud and enjoy those TL's! I know i love mine!

Brian

[keepongoin]

S_TL-Taper - are you from st. louis?  I will be up at there for the yonder show in a couple week, should be one of my first remote audience taping experiences.  

[Brian]

Yes i am from St. Louis and currently reside here as well. I won't be at the yonder show because I'm playing a show that same night.  I'm sure there will be some other tapers there to help you out with answers to any questions you might have or if you run into gear trouble. good luck man and be sure to let us all know how it goes!

Brian

[Jason B]

thanks jason, in the DIN mic spacing, the 20 cm looks shorter than the 17cm used in ORTF, is that just the pics? Actually if the *arms* of the AKG bar are pushed closer together then that has to be less than 17cm, correct?

I may have switched the angles between the two config's in the pics. I'll re-measure and re-shoot soon.

[Tim]

Yeah! get on that shit!

[nickgregory]

if you want to add pictures of the only SDs worth owning, you are welcome to borrow snap pics of the MGs

[Jason B]

Yeah! get on that shit!

 

[LeftoverSammy]

if you want to add pictures of the only SDs worth owning, you are welcome to borrow snap pics of the MGs

I'll second that notion!!

[creekfreak]

nice pics, those are very nice, should help a lot of people out.

[tim in jersey]

some pics of sd mic configs, courtesy of the Oade boys...

http://www.oade.com/Tapers_Section/micsetup.html

[silverbullet]

I know there has been a lot of poeple questioning how to setup different stereo microphone configurations, so I figured I would put together a page to point people to, in order to help them with their setups. So far, there are only large diaphragm pictures up, but I know this is what a lot of poeple have been having trouble with lately. I'll get some small diaphragm configuration pictures, as well as many other LD pics up there soon.

Maybe we could sticky this thread or link here, or in the microphone or archival forums?

-JB

http://homepage.mac.com/gottajiboo40/Menu10.html

Great Page +T

Newbie question: I have a pair of ADK TL's now and I will be trying out some new mic configurations once I get some new mounts. My question is what polar patterns are you using on your mics for each configuration? or does it depend on each crowd situation. I'm a little nervous as to which polar pattern setting I should have behind each mic.

[dale]

is no one into jecklin disc?
I am getting great recordings  using a homemade one

dale     long run audio

[Ray76]

Ok, so I see the pics, but where are the measurements??
Isnt there an exact science to these configs??
Ray

[John R]

Ok, so I see the pics, but where are the measurements??
Isnt there an exact science to these configs??
Ray

ray, between oade.com and microphone university at dpa, you should be able to get all the specs

[Ray76]

Ok, so I see the pics, but where are the measurements??
Isnt there an exact science to these configs??
Ray

ray, between oade.com and microphone university at dpa, you should be able to get all the specs

Thanks John! Still waitin on these army bastards to pull their heads outta their asses!damn politics!+T
Ray

[Evil Taper]

I was looking at the DPA website and saw that they have boundary mounts available...does anyone use these?  According to their literature it's supposed to produce a more direct sound when mounting a mic in the center of the cup.  Similiar to those satelite mic holders that are used for NFL sideline audio apps?

[tfs8271]

Is there opinions on mic configurations on different venues...might be a good new thread (or sub-thread).

I will be going to the Warfield to see & hear moe and the Mule next month and this will be my first taper friendly attempt. Would you run XY or ORTF with some Neumann 184s into a Oade ACM 660? What height stand and where do they set you up (under the balcony)? Windscreens? 
Thanks

[sygdwm]

Is there opinions on mic configurations on different venues...might be a good new thread (or sub-thread).

I will be going to the Warfield to see & hear moe and the Mule next month and this will be my first taper friendly attempt. Would you run XY or ORTF with some Neumann 184s into a Oade ACM 660? What height stand and where do they set you up (under the balcony)? Windscreens? 
Thanks

it depends on your location. i think if you are close and center go with DIN or ORTF. off center maybe XY. run as high as they will allow or head height-ish. always use screens.

[scb]

i don't like xy witht he 4022s.  but i wonder if i'd like it with dpa subcards?

what configs so subcard owners like?

[sygdwm]

what configs so subcard owners like?

NOS

[Normsreality]

Just FYI the link is dead. Wouldn't you know I buy a pair of LDs and the link I need goes dead. Don't know if anyone can rehost these pics but it sure would be great!

[bagtagsell]

I'll try and scrounge some up, and make a ...all microphone config page in rig pics.

[Normsreality]

Sweet thanks a ton. All of us will get good use from that. +T

[bagtagsell]

Here are some pictures of split omni's and xy.  I am still looking for ortf.  DIN and DINa are pretty easy to visualize in your head.  Hope this helps.  Also XY can become MS and blumeline really easy.

http://homepage.mac.com/bagtagsell/PhotoAlbum8.html

[bagtagsell]

I had a suspicion that these pictures might disappear. So I made copies one day in anticipation

Well done.

[Kindguy]

I have a question. do you measure from the center of the grill on the LD's.

[winisp]

This thread is really helpful. I am working on setting up the config before my first show on Tuesday.

I still have a question about setting up DIN (90 degrees, 17 cm) with

I have read a lot on mic configs, printed all the recommended stuff out, use a protractor and ruler to get it exact. I can't find any photos with this combo - I mainly see Shure bar configs or t-bar without AKG 480s.

I couldn't find any mic config pictures with my combination. 

Here are photos of my best attempt for DIN (90, 17cm) with AKG 480,  Shure AT8410 shockmounts, AKG T-bar & mic clamp.

Team AKG has provided feedback that this looks correct. Any one else see any problems or have recommendations for this setup where the shockmounts require a riser?

[Chuck]

This thread is really helpful. I am working on setting up the config before my first show on Tuesday.

I still have a question about setting up DIN (90 degrees, 17 cm) with

I have read a lot on mic configs, printed all the recommended stuff out, use a protractor and ruler to get it exact. I can't find any photos with this combo - I mainly see Shure bar configs or t-bar without AKG 480s.

I couldn't find any mic config pictures with my combination. 

Here are photos of my best attempt for DIN (90, 17cm) with AKG 480,  Shure AT8410 shockmounts, AKG T-bar & mic clamp.

Team AKG has provided feedback that this looks correct. Any one else see any problems or have recommendations for this setup where the shockmounts require a riser?

Yeah, that looks right... Boy, those mic's are shiney 
I use a Sabra Som mount vertically. I need to sleep,  but I'll post a pic if I remember.
Lots of us use the 480's in a DINa configuration. ~90 degrees and about 6.4" apart. This is essentially ORTF (spacing) at 90 degrees, but most call it DINa...

[NOLAfishwater]

Here are photos of my best attempt for DIN (90, 17cm) with AKG 480,  Shure AT8410 shockmounts, AKG T-bar & mic clamp.

Team AKG has provided feedback that this looks correct. Any one else see any problems or have recommendations for this setup where the shockmounts require a riser?

Is the DIN 90, 17cm the best way to run AKG 463's? I noticed that Team AKG has provided feedback. I was looking on the Team Boards and couldn't find them.

[Butler.]

Ok, so now that I'm in the right thread....

I have a pair of AT3035's and was wondering about setting them up correctly. Which configuration is recommended? I'm also wondering about the "LOW CUT" switch and the "PAD" switch. I have always used the low cut on (I think on is the correct way to put that.... it shows it cutting the low end, as opposed to a straight line) and used the -10dB pad. I'm wondering if I'm using those correctly as well.

Thanks for any help!

Butler.

[Brian Skalinder]

I have a pair of AT3035's and was wondering about setting them up correctly. Which configuration is recommended?

There's no real "correct" configuration.  Some people prefer coincident techniques (XY, Blumlein, Mid-Side), others near-coincident (ORTF, DIN, AB, etc.).  Some people use "standard" configurations very specifically (e.g. precisely 17cm and 110º), while others use these "standard" configurations as a starting point and tweak the spacing or angle depending on the recording circumstances.  Best way to figure it out is to experiment as you go.  Try XY-90º to start, then next show try ORTF or DIN, etc.  You'll eventually figure out which configurations you prefer in which scenario.

Personally, I like LDs coincident (XY, Mid-Side, or Blumlein).

[Corbin]

Ok, so now that I'm in the right thread....

I have a pair of AT3035's and was wondering about setting them up correctly. Which configuration is recommended? I'm also wondering about the "LOW CUT" switch and the "PAD" switch. I have always used the low cut on (I think on is the correct way to put that.... it shows it cutting the low end, as opposed to a straight line) and used the -10dB pad. I'm wondering if I'm using those correctly as well.

Thanks for any help!

Butler.

I'm not sure about the lowcut switch Butler maybe someone else can explain it better.  But my guess would be that you want it flat, and not 'cutting' any of the low end.
Now that your using the FR2LE, I'm pretty sure that you shouldn't be running the -10db pad either.  Maybe Brian can confirm this, but it's my understanding that it's preferable to use the pad on your FR2LE rather than the mics...Something about degrading the signal before it even reaches your Fostex.  That's how I run my 660 (no pad on the mics, -20db pad on the 660)
A

[DSatz]

I can't tell how old the messages in this thread may be, so at the risk of replying to something that was posted in "aught-three" ... When sound is so loud that it threatens to overload the microphone's own electronics (a capsule is nearly impossible to overload with sound alone), use the pad in the microphone. It works between the capsule and the amplifier circuitry of the microphone.

But the pad in a microphone usually reduces the output of the capsule without affecting the (fixed) noise level of the mike's electronics. Thus it raises the microphone's noise level relative to its sensitivity. The pad at the input of a recorder generally doesn't have this problem, so if you can use the pad in (or at) the recorder, it's generally preferable.

Nowadays most microphones can handle such high sound pressure levels that the only times they actually overload are when the sound levels are actually hazardous to your hearing--or else when something else less obvious is going on, such as wind noise or inadequate powering.

Different scenario: If a recorder's inputs are being overloaded with the signals from the microphones, and the recorder has no pad, then it's better to buy in-line resistive pads and use them at the inputs of the recorder, rather than use the microphones' built-in pads for this purpose. Same reason as above: You'd be increasing the noise level of the recording.

In a pinch, however, a moderate amount of extra noise is preferable to overload distortion ("brickwalling")--so if you have no alternative, use the pads in the microphones, by all means.

--best regards

P.S.: Just to get back to the topic of this thread for a tiny moment: According to the gentlemen who developed the ORTF miking arrangement, large-diaphragm microphones shouldn't be used. Even small-diaphragm microphones that are "side addressed" should not be used. They have their reasons, which I can go into if anyone here is interested.

[crackmc]

I can't tell how old the messages in this thread may be

each post is date/time stamped at the top